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(LA Times)   So, the lady who's been making the rounds on cable news claiming that Obamacare is causing her to trade her cheap plan for an expensive one? Well, one reporter actually followed up with her on this, with unsurprising results   (latimes.com) divider line 415
    More: Interesting  
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8365 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2013 at 2:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-01 02:29:37 PM  

Serious Black: There undeniably will be people in the individual market today who will come out losers. They will pay more for insurance that covers the same or less services with the same or more cost sharing. They will argue that they should not be paying for others' health care. If they want to argue that, I'd be happy to ask them if those who cannot afford to pay for their own health care should just die.


Do you not recall the applause that exact argument received in the Republican primary debates last year?

Here it is again for anyone who missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56cfSyWOkI

In other words, don't be surprised if the response is a resounding "yes" when you pose that question.
 
2013-11-01 02:29:48 PM  

busy chillin': I went to 0bamacare.gov and it took 33 minutes to load and then I discovered that it installed a trojan on my computer that linked my checking and savings account directly to the presidents and was taking all of my money. I called to complain and had to press one for English. I was on hold for 27 minutes then it just went skaweeeeeeeeee-errrrrt. I hung up. But if I wanted health insurance I would have gotten health insurance. I DON'T WANT IT! I am a healthy white male with Jesus on my side. I have all the protection I need.


Do you drive an F-150 or a Silverado?
 
2013-11-01 02:30:03 PM  

busy chillin': I went to 0bamacare.gov and it took 33 minutes to load and then I discovered that it installed a trojan on my computer that linked my checking and savings account directly to the presidents and was taking all of my money. I called to complain and had to press one for English. I was on hold for 27 minutes then it just went skaweeeeeeeeee-errrrrt. I hung up. But if I wanted health insurance I would have gotten health insurance. I DON'T WANT IT! I am a healthy white male with Jesus on my side. I have all the protection I need.


No gun? You need a Bushmaster AR-15. It'll get your Conservative Card back. I will sell for only $3000. Ammo is $2/round.
 
2013-11-01 02:30:38 PM  

BeesNuts: Lord_Baull: I, for one, am shocked that someone would be uninformed about ACA.

1) Deliberately misinform the public about the ACA.
2) Bring people you misinformed onto your network to describe their dissatisfaction with the ACA as they understand it.
3) Act shocked when these people are misinformed about the ACA.


static.guim.co.uk
It's the circle of life
 
2013-11-01 02:30:39 PM  
I must say that it is pretty frustrating to keep having to defend a Republican plan from Republican attacks.

Can you imagine the shrieking if we had managed to pass a 'public option'?
 
2013-11-01 02:31:42 PM  
Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?
 
2013-11-01 02:31:59 PM  
You think it is to much to ask to get this lady to admit she was full of it, then sincerely apologize?
 
2013-11-01 02:32:08 PM  
 
2013-11-01 02:32:11 PM  
You can still keep any catastrophic or cut-rate, non-qualifying plan your insurance provider wants to offer (unless your State reulatory board has outlawed them). You are just now considered under insured and subject to a 1% increase in your tax rate, because of your added risk to the National healthcare system.
 
2013-11-01 02:33:14 PM  
This reminds me of that one time, when they reported on the Alabama Leprachaun, and all the people were saying they saw him.  Did the media drug test them?  No.

//this is actually a pretty sh*tty analogy on several levels, but I so do enjoy that report.
 
2013-11-01 02:33:29 PM  

mrshowrules: [pinstripebindi.files.wordpress.com image 275x206]


Came for that.
 
2013-11-01 02:33:31 PM  

Witty_Retort: Problem is that, like this woman, there are many who have no idea they have a crap plan.
Half her talking points were debunked because she didn't even know what she had.
She just looked at numbers and made assumptions.


And that's how insurance companies make obscene profits - they rely on people not understanding their policies, or exactly what they're getting for X dollars per month, subject to cancellation, etc. If most people with these kinds of policies actually understood them, they would be cancelling them immediately, as they are not worth the paper they're printed on, not just even in, but especially in the case of a catastrophic illness.
 
2013-11-01 02:33:33 PM  
I went to Zerobanjobammy.gov and tried to log in. 666 minutes later, I was having teh ghey sex with the ghost of Saul Alinsky in a madrassa.
 
2013-11-01 02:33:53 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


Because accidents happen.
 
2013-11-01 02:34:02 PM  
FTFA: Her current plan, from Anthem Blue Cross, is a catastrophic coverage plan for which she pays $293 a month as an individual policyholder. It requires her to pay a deductible of $5,000 a year and limits her out-of-pocket costs to $8,500 a year. Her plan also limits her to two doctor visits a year, for which she shoulders a copay of $40 each. After that, she pays the whole cost of subsequent visits.

She's pissed that she can't keep this? Even by pre-ACA standards, this is a shiatty policy.
Also, I'd like to say, "I can't believe that news broadcasters are putting people on the air to talk about the 'then and now' of healthcare choices when those people haven't even been to the website," but I totally believe it.
 
2013-11-01 02:34:24 PM  
Her current plan isn't even that crappy really. But, the new plan Bronze plan she can get will end up being cheaper for her. Yeah, she'll pay more in a doctor's visit, but she already saved the difference in whatever month she goes to see that doctor. People just need to do some farking research. I realize it's harder than listening to "HERP DERP OBAMA-DERP!" on the radio, but jeeze guys. Give it a chance.
 
2013-11-01 02:34:54 PM  

Serious Black: There undeniably will be people in the individual market today who will come out losers. They will pay more for insurance that covers the same or less services with the same or more cost sharing. They will argue that they should not be paying for others' health care. If they want to argue that, I'd be happy to ask them if those who cannot afford to pay for their own health care should just die.


And they'll say, Yes.
 
2013-11-01 02:35:32 PM  

ox45tallboy: Serious Black: There undeniably will be people in the individual market today who will come out losers. They will pay more for insurance that covers the same or less services with the same or more cost sharing. They will argue that they should not be paying for others' health care. If they want to argue that, I'd be happy to ask them if those who cannot afford to pay for their own health care should just die.

Do you not recall the applause that exact argument received in the Republican primary debates last year?

Here it is again for anyone who missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56cfSyWOkI

In other words, don't be surprised if the response is a resounding "yes Amen" when you pose that question.


FTFY
 
2013-11-01 02:35:48 PM  

FlashHarry: Ooh, hey, look! Yet another GOP scoop turns out to be complete bullshiat!

and, yes, this one's about benghazi.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-11-01 02:36:23 PM  

lockers: You think it is to much to ask to get this lady to admit she was full of it, then sincerely apologize?


No, its not, but doubtful it would happen.

The only qualification that most people who are interviewed on TV possess, is the desire to be interviewed on TV.
 
2013-11-01 02:36:40 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


There is no such thing as an person who is not at risk of running up an enormous medical bill at any moment. There is no such thing as a person who does not need insurance.
 
2013-11-01 02:36:43 PM  
Look man, I lost my insurance thanks to Fartbleacher Obenzene.  Did you really expect me to spend more than the time it takes to f*ck my sister with my crippled dick on finding quality, comparable coverage on healthcare.gov or the exchange sites?
 
2013-11-01 02:37:06 PM  

MrBallou: Two Dogs Farking: I wonder how much the Republican PACs are paying to DDOS healthcare.gov.

Have all my photos 'shopped to include a tin-foil hat, but I'm convinced just by the volume and frenzy of these "news stories" and all the other BS going on right now that money is being spent at a desperate rate to damage ACA and Obama as much as possible while there's still a chance.

I'm just hoping the Koch brothers go broke soon.


Fracking. They are going to get rich fracking. Because water in your oil table is a small price to pay.
 
2013-11-01 02:37:08 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


Because tomorrow when you take a step off a curb and get run over by a bus, your previously "totally healthy" ass is not going to be quite so "totally healthy" anymore.

And, if you are under 30, you can get a catastrophic plan. If you are over 30, you can still get a catastrophic plan and pay a small penalty.
 
2013-11-01 02:37:17 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


Because emergency rooms are filled with people in the 18-45 range that were until that point totally healthy.
 
2013-11-01 02:37:37 PM  

ox45tallboy: Serious Black: There undeniably will be people in the individual market today who will come out losers. They will pay more for insurance that covers the same or less services with the same or more cost sharing. They will argue that they should not be paying for others' health care. If they want to argue that, I'd be happy to ask them if those who cannot afford to pay for their own health care should just die.

Do you not recall the applause that exact argument received in the Republican primary debates last year?

Here it is again for anyone who missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56cfSyWOkI

In other words, don't be surprised if the response is a resounding "yes" when you pose that question.


Evil High Priest: And they'll say, Yes.


Sadly, I think you're right that the hardcore Tea Partiers will agree. But the rest of the country will think they're complete savages.
 
2013-11-01 02:37:37 PM  

ox45tallboy: Serious Black: There undeniably will be people in the individual market today who will come out losers. They will pay more for insurance that covers the same or less services with the same or more cost sharing. They will argue that they should not be paying for others' health care. If they want to argue that, I'd be happy to ask them if those who cannot afford to pay for their own health care should just die.

Do you not recall the applause that exact argument received in the Republican primary debates last year?

Here it is again for anyone who missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56cfSyWOkI

In other words, don't be surprised if the response is a resounding "yes" when you pose that question.


Is that seriously the best video you could find?
 
2013-11-01 02:38:06 PM  

kidgenius: Her current plan isn't even that crappy really. But, the new plan Bronze plan she can get will end up being cheaper for her. Yeah, she'll pay more in a doctor's visit, but she already saved the difference in whatever month she goes to see that doctor. People just need to do some farking research. I realize it's harder than listening to "HERP DERP OBAMA-DERP!" on the radio, but jeeze guys. Give it a chance.


Plus, she's 60.  She should be going to the doctor's office (or at least some specialists) more than twice a year.
 
2013-11-01 02:39:12 PM  
haemaker
trotsky


A Ford F350 dually with a gun rack and huge bull nuts hangin' off the hitch. It's a thing of beauty.

/come on y'all, that sh*t was satirical
 
2013-11-01 02:39:31 PM  

busy chillin': BeesNuts: Lord_Baull: I, for one, am shocked that someone would be uninformed about ACA.

1) Deliberately misinform the public about the ACA.
2) Bring people you misinformed onto your network to describe their dissatisfaction with the ACA as they understand it.
3) Act shocked when these people are misinformed about the ACA.

[static.guim.co.uk image 460x276]
It's the circle of life


HA!  Omwenya!  Obo-enwyaaaaaaaaa-oooooooooooooom.
 
2013-11-01 02:39:32 PM  

FlashHarry: Ooh, hey, look! Yet another GOP scoop turns out to be complete bullshiat!

and, yes, this one's about benghazi.


Isn't amazing that value voters don't value, amongst other things in the 10 commandments, honesty.
 
2013-11-01 02:39:52 PM  

James!: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

Because accidents happen.


There's also a 4.75% chance of hitting blackjack in any random draw, but I'm not exactly going to the Casino and putting $100 a hand down waiting for it.
 
2013-11-01 02:40:13 PM  

ox45tallboy: Witty_Retort: Problem is that, like this woman, there are many who have no idea they have a crap plan.
Half her talking points were debunked because she didn't even know what she had.
She just looked at numbers and made assumptions.

And that's how insurance companies make obscene profits - they rely on people not understanding their policies, or exactly what they're getting for X dollars per month, subject to cancellation, etc. If most people with these kinds of policies actually understood them, they would be cancelling them immediately, as they are not worth the paper they're printed on, not just even in, but especially in the case of a catastrophic illness.


That CBS woman the other day was a classic example. She thought "copay" described how much the insurance helped her out, instead of how much she is helping the insurance company out with every doctor visit.

I will say this....

I've outlined the ACA to a few people that aren't completely retarded. They have heard a little here and there about various things. After I'm done explaining they usually go, "Oh.....that's not really all that bad actually", especially when I explain the 80/20 rule and how last year I actually got a check in the mail from Aetna, so that provision is definitely working.
 
2013-11-01 02:40:20 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


Here's the thing though - you probably think you are in that healthy 18-45 range where you never get sick.  But I am guessing that based on your reasoning ability regarding the fact that WE ALL GET ASSF*CKED WHEN YOU GO TO THE ER, you probably have a prion eating away your brain.

You should probably get that checked out.

No insurance?

Do you need us to start a FarkUs project to collect money for you, bootstrappy?
 
2013-11-01 02:40:26 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


To subsidize the old people who do get sick, since you plan on being one eventually. Also to subsidize your neighbors who work in businesses you frequent, to subsidize the health of the people who handle your food, and the people who work with your children, not to mention the mental health of the people who have access to firearms. Then let's also talk about how medical bankruptcies (the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States) affect the economy as a whole, and you as an individual when you go to apply for a loan.

It's basically the same reason people with no kids still pay property taxes to support the schools - the indirect benefits to living in an educated society actually exceed the direct benefits of not having to pay for your child's education, just like the benefits of living in a healthy society far exceed the direct benefits of having your own cancer treatments paid for.
 
2013-11-01 02:41:06 PM  
I was a perfectly healthy 29 year old until I got hit by a cab one month and had a kidney stone the next.
 
2013-11-01 02:41:31 PM  

InmanRoshi: I went to Zerobanjobammy.gov and tried to log in. 666 minutes later, I was having teh ghey sex with the ghost of Saul Alinsky in a madrassa.


Don't mix intentional spelling mistakes with intentional sarcasm, it's distracting. I'm on your side, mate.
 
2013-11-01 02:41:44 PM  

geek_mars: In other words, don't be surprised if the response is a resounding "yes Amen" when you pose that question.

FTFY


I stand corrected.
 
2013-11-01 02:43:03 PM  

spman: James!: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

Because accidents happen.

There's also a 4.75% chance of hitting blackjack in any random draw, but I'm not exactly going to the Casino and putting $100 a hand down waiting for it.


You can gamble with bankruptcy all you want, but when you can't pay your hospital bills everyone else has to foot the bill.  Get insurance kid.
 
2013-11-01 02:43:34 PM  
I'm thinking of setting up a business where for a fee I help all of these idiots navigate the healthcare marketplace.  It's staggering the number of people in my Facebook feed who cannot see what is right in front of their faces.

So many of these people are lower-income white people who just want to be pissed at Obama.  They do their search on the website, find the worst plan, and post that to FB as if that's all they could find.  One idiot I know who claimed to have a $1200/mo income searched and found a bare bones plan at $263/mo or something and lamented his bad luck.  I went and searched using the same income data and found that because he was within 125% of the poverty lines, he'd get extensive premium support.  Yet he just threw up his hands and blamed Obama.

All these bootstrappy types become such whiny little biatches when the ACA is involved.  There's got to be a way for me to make money off of this.
 
2013-11-01 02:43:56 PM  

BeesNuts: Is that seriously the best video you could find?


Yes, I'm on limited bandwidth tethered to my cell, which is currently throttled because I'm over my data limit. If you can find a better one, by all means, post it.
 
2013-11-01 02:44:14 PM  
What is really surprising to me is the inability of the right to find anyone that can backup their claim that the ACA hurt them. I haven't seen a single story I can think of where complaints about increased premiums, policy cancellations, or reduced access to care turned out to be anything other than people who didn't understand, or were intentionally misinformed about the impact of Obamacare on their plan.

Are there any actual cases where someone is explicitly, verifiably, worse off now than they were before Obamacare was passed?
 
2013-11-01 02:44:24 PM  
Feel free to ignore the Obamacare numbers if you don't like projections, but the average non-group insurance premium is 15% of income for people shopping on the individual market. Obamacare caps that at 9.5% or under unless you're above 400% of the poverty line.

www.commonwealthfund.org

If you think you can get quality health insurance for like $50 a month, you're crazy. And if you're under 30, or qualify for a hardship exemption, you can still get a catastrophic plan.

I really just don't think people understand what market based health insurance actually costs...
 
2013-11-01 02:44:33 PM  

spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?


You won't fall within that 18-45 range and be totally healthy forever. Either you'll get hit by a bus or develop cancer while still in that age range and spend a ton of money treating those things, or you'll grow old and THEN get hit by a bus or develop cancer and spend a ton of money treating those things.
 
2013-11-01 02:45:06 PM  

ox45tallboy: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

To subsidize the old people who do get sick, since you plan on being one eventually. Also to subsidize your neighbors who work in businesses you frequent, to subsidize the health of the people who handle your food, and the people who work with your children, not to mention the mental health of the people who have access to firearms. Then let's also talk about how medical bankruptcies (the number one cause of bankruptcy in the United States) affect the economy as a whole, and you as an individual when you go to apply for a loan.

It's basically the same reason people with no kids still pay property taxes to support the schools - the indirect benefits to living in an educated society actually exceed the direct benefits of not having to pay for your child's education, just like the benefits of living in a healthy society far exceed the direct benefits of having your own cancer treatments paid for.


Don't confuse them, the dears.  Just say the blah guy did it.
 
2013-11-01 02:45:18 PM  
I personally know people who are having a rate increase due to the ACA (various reasons for various people). So this is not all right wing lies. That's the big problem: separating out the reality from the Fox crap.

The overwhelming majority of people are seeing a benefit from the ACA. I have a teabagging co-worker that just said "I think I'm beginning to like your boy Obama" because our company pension crapped over the healthcare plan (presumably--and this the teabagger and I agree on-- NOT because of the ACA, but because of union negotiations last year). The ACA may give him his healthcare cheaply. Luckily NY is a cooperating state or he would be farked.
 
2013-11-01 02:46:03 PM  
Seriously, has there ever been a "outrage!" stated by any conservative Republican in the last 10 years that hasn't turned out to be a lie or at the very least an enormous exaggeration?

Really.  This has been so consistent in the last decade that it has gotten to the point of not even checking for any truth.
I'm sure that every conservative is really proud that every word they speak is so wrong that people just stare at them silently like I did when I would visit my mother in her memory care facility.
 
2013-11-01 02:46:21 PM  

James!: I was a perfectly healthy 29 year old until I got hit by a cab one month and had a kidney stone the next.


Your fault for not looking where you were going and drinking too much soda/tea. 
Why should anyone else pay for your irresponsibility?

/I keed, it is sad I have to day that.
 
2013-11-01 02:46:57 PM  

InmanRoshi: spman: Here the thing though. If you fall within that 18-45 range, are totally healthy, have no risk for any hereditary illness, and never get sick besides the occasional cold, why should you be forced into buying insurance in the first place? Why should you be forced to buy a plan you don't want that offers features you don't need and won't use and pay an extra $40 a month for them?

Because emergency rooms are filled with people in the 18-45 range that were until that point totally healthy.


Actually the typical emergency room is more full of the mentally ill, senior citizens, and immigrants than anything else in my experience, but typically the reason people don't have health insurance is because they don't want it or can't afford it. Just because you force them to have it isn't going to resolve the second problem.

You talk about Republicans trying to wipe out the middle class by making sure the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, what do you think this is? You think the person working three minimum wage jobs just to keep food in their mouth and a roof over their head can afford to pay anything extra a month for insurance? You think the guy who makes between $30,000 - $40,000 a year and barely scrapes by due to his modest standard of living can afford to pay between $250 - $350 a month?
 
2013-11-01 02:47:25 PM  

JustLookin: I'm thinking of setting up a business where for a fee I help all of these idiots navigate the healthcare marketplace.  It's staggering the number of people in my Facebook feed who cannot see what is right in front of their faces.

So many of these people are lower-income white people who just want to be pissed at Obama.  They do their search on the website, find the worst plan, and post that to FB as if that's all they could find.  One idiot I know who claimed to have a $1200/mo income searched and found a bare bones plan at $263/mo or something and lamented his bad luck.  I went and searched using the same income data and found that because he was within 125% of the poverty lines, he'd get extensive premium support.  Yet he just threw up his hands and blamed Obama.

All these bootstrappy types become such whiny little biatches when the ACA is involved.  There's got to be a way for me to make money off of this.


I've really thought about this too. I helped a friend who currently pays $700 a month to cover herself (with preexisting conditions) and her daughter find a better policy for $450 a month, before subsidies.

I know shopping for health insurance isn't easy, but I really don't think people know what individual market health insurance actually costs, or how the ACA law is actually structured.
 
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