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(Guardian)   The poor NSA was just following orders   (theguardian.com) divider line 54
    More: Fail, NSA, mass surveillance, counter-terrorism, NSA chief, diplomats, German Chancellor, retirements  
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1583 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2013 at 1:09 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-01 11:59:00 AM
The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.
 
2013-11-01 12:08:18 PM
So was this guy ...

static.comicvine.com
 
2013-11-01 12:08:21 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.


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THIS!

 
2013-11-01 01:14:52 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-01 01:15:56 PM
The Nuremberg Defense!
 
2013-11-01 01:16:18 PM
It's okay, though. No one in Washington knew what was going on, so it's not their fault.
 
2013-11-01 01:16:21 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.


People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?
 
2013-11-01 01:17:02 PM

AeAe: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?


Government people?
 
2013-11-01 01:18:17 PM

hawcian: It's okay, though. No one in Washington knew what was going on, so it's not their fault.


Maybe they were getting...faulty intelligence. You know, like the kind that we got before we went into Iraq.
 
2013-11-01 01:29:47 PM
You know the wheels are coming off when government entity A stops lying and stonewalling and starts blaming government entity B. That's the clue that it's shifting from, "wait and hope it'll go away" mode to, "I've got to save my own ass" mode. That's when things get fun.
 
2013-11-01 01:29:56 PM
Barbed exchange with former ambassador over spying on foreign leaders likely to deepen rift with Obama administration

What does the NSA have to do with Obama?
 
2013-11-01 01:30:06 PM
Snowden has always claimed - rough paraphrase, sorry - that after he saw all the crap that the NSA was up to, he decided that someone should do something. So he did something.

At first most people were all "ooh, he's a traitor, burn him!" Frankly, he wasn't terribly convincing when he tried to play the hero/martyr, but we never seem to get exactly the hero/martyrs we hope for, do we?

As more of the stuff that Snowden saw starts coming out, people are starting to wonder less about Snowden and more about the NSA.

And I say: Good!
 
2013-11-01 01:31:12 PM
Wonderful, it was everyone's fault and a giant misunderstanding. So now just scrap that CITY you're building in the Utah desert and cut this shiat out once and for all.
 
2013-11-01 01:31:48 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.


After what has been revealed about us tapping Merkel's phone, Germany might be inclined to give him asylum just to raise its middle finger to us. And I wouldn't blame them.
 
2013-11-01 01:33:37 PM
I think it would be hard to justify spying on an allies pm.

I'm sure someone here will disagree with me.

/because they are idiots.
 
2013-11-01 01:34:26 PM

AeAe: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?


Patriots?
 
2013-11-01 01:35:23 PM
NSA top Brass

s15.postimg.org
 
2013-11-01 01:38:42 PM
Snowden still broke the law.

Kudos to him for re-revealing the spying program we knew about, but forgot about, in 2006.

If you become a whistle blower, you accept the consequences.
 
2013-11-01 01:41:46 PM
"deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.
 
2013-11-01 01:48:18 PM
More proof that 9-11 was an inside job to justify the CIA spying. Thank you Prescott Bush and Poppy Bush for the CIA. We are sure that when Junior was taking a 6-week vacation in Crawford after being on the job just 5 months that he was doing nothing but jogging, pulling weeds, and feeding the horses.
 
2013-11-01 01:58:04 PM

karnal: "deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.


I do think you are right in a "rogue agency" kind of way. It's way easier to ask forgiveness if caught than permission in the first place. I do believe Obama knew nothing of spying on Merkel.
 
2013-11-01 01:59:32 PM

AnonAmbientLight: Snowden still broke the law.

Kudos to him for re-revealing the spying program we knew about, but forgot about, in 2006.

If you become a whistle blower, you accept the consequences.


If you morons would take off the blinders and read the current revelations you would see that spouting bs about us knowing about this in 2006 is a bullshiat talking point.

Also, whistleblowers are supposed to be protected, so if you agree that he is a whistleblower than there should be no consequences, no?
 
2013-11-01 02:01:39 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.


I'll admit that I've come all the way around on Snowden. At first I thought he was just another Asange, but I now believe that Snowden is trying to be a genuine whistleblower and that he was legitimately horrified by the extent of the NSAs actions.
 
2013-11-01 02:02:56 PM
.

jjorsett: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque:

The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

After what has been revealed about us tapping Merkel's phone, Germany might be inclined to give him asylum just to raise its middle finger to us. And I wouldn't blame them.



From your keyboard to God's ears. As Gomez Addams used to say, "A capital idea!".
 
2013-11-01 02:06:01 PM

Kevin72: karnal: "deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.

I do think you are right in a "rogue agency" kind of way. It's way easier to ask forgiveness if caught than permission in the first place. I do believe Obama knew nothing of spying on Merkel.


Keep on believing.....you're not alone
www.verdasys.com
 
2013-11-01 02:09:47 PM

AnonAmbientLight: If you become a whistle blower, you accept the consequences


That's really not how whistleblowing is supposed to work. At least not if you want people to actually become whistleblowers when they see bad stuff happening.
 
2013-11-01 02:10:20 PM
cdn.wegotthiscovered.com

I'm envisioning a Nazi striking this pose.
 
2013-11-01 02:19:27 PM

karnal: Kevin72: karnal: "deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.

I do think you are right in a "rogue agency" kind of way. It's way easier to ask forgiveness if caught than permission in the first place. I do believe Obama knew nothing of spying on Merkel.

Keep on believing.....you're not alone
[www.verdasys.com image 450x302]


I'm open. I imagine the spies just said frkkit I'm doing it because we can. Do you think Obama ordered it? Wanted it? Sure he gets reports, but he doesn't have time to question sources is what I think. Do you think he ordered the phonetap and why? Or is this just more manufactured outrage?
 
2013-11-01 02:35:59 PM

AnonAmbientLight: Kudos to him for re-revealing the spying program we knew about, but forgot about, in 2006.


Yes because the NSA spying program today is exactly the same as the one in 2006 with no expansions whatsoever.  So, carry on, right?
 
2013-11-01 02:42:36 PM

Kevin72: karnal: Kevin72: karnal: "deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.

I do think you are right in a "rogue agency" kind of way. It's way easier to ask forgiveness if caught than permission in the first place. I do believe Obama knew nothing of spying on Merkel.

Keep on believing.....you're not alone
[www.verdasys.com image 450x302]

I'm open. I imagine the spies just said frkkit I'm doing it because we can. Do you think Obama ordered it? Wanted it? Sure he gets reports, but he doesn't have time to question sources is what I think. Do you think he ordered the phonetap and why? Or is this just more manufactured outrage?


Hmmm...our know nothing president?  I find it unlikely.....he is either lying when he says he knows nothing or he is severly out of the loop.....no matter how you slice it, it does not look good.  What are some of the things he claims to have known nothing about?

Fast & Furious
Benghazi
IRS targeting Tea Party members
NSA spying

Was he lying when he said we could keep our insurance policies, or our doctors or was he ignorant of the facts?
 
2013-11-01 02:48:08 PM

Kevin72: I'm open. I imagine the spies just said frkkit I'm doing it because we can. Do you think Obama ordered it? Wanted it? Sure he gets reports, but he doesn't have time to question sources is what I think. Do you think he ordered the phonetap and why? Or is this just more manufactured outrage?


If the Federal gov't is so unwieldy that the President is in the dark on so many issues, perhaps we need to severely limit the size of the executive branch.
 
2013-11-01 02:53:57 PM

karnal: Fast & Furious  << Rogue ATF program
Benghazi << terrorist attack 
IRS targeting Tea Party members  << debunked
NSA spying  << legitimate b.s.



3 out of your 4 examples have no real connection to the executive branch.  Try again.
 
2013-11-01 02:59:54 PM

AeAe: karnal: Fast & Furious  << Rogue ATF program
Benghazi << terrorist attack
IRS targeting Tea Party members  << debunked
NSA spying  << legitimate b.s.


3 out of your 4 examples have no real connection to the executive branch.  Try again.



He claimed ignorance on all of them.
 
2013-11-01 03:17:06 PM
TFA IS ABOUT THE NSA JUST DOING THE JOB IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, MONITORING FOREIGN FARKIN' GOVERNMENTS.

That's what we farkin' pay them for, and it's what they should be doing.

Now, those nations may be getting their collective panties in a bunch about it, but their signals intelligence organizations do, or attempt to do, the very same farking thing.

Save the outrage for the NSA warrantless wiretapping and collecting the metadata for all domestic phone calls.  *THAT* is worth getting pissed about.

This is more worthy of a pat on the back, and a "keep up the good work" Hallmark card.
 
2013-11-01 03:18:47 PM

MugzyBrown: Kevin72: I'm open. I imagine the spies just said frkkit I'm doing it because we can. Do you think Obama ordered it? Wanted it? Sure he gets reports, but he doesn't have time to question sources is what I think. Do you think he ordered the phonetap and why? Or is this just more manufactured outrage?

If the Federal gov't is so unwieldy that the President is in the dark on so many issues, perhaps we need to severely limit the size of the executive branch.


Or shine some sunlight on rogue operations. Snowden=Hero.
 
2013-11-01 03:25:51 PM

karnal: Kevin72: karnal: Kevin72: karnal: "deepening the division between the Obama administration and the intelligence community"

I am pretty sure Obama and his administration is far removed from the "intelligence community" - if you know what I mean.

I do think you are right in a "rogue agency" kind of way. It's way easier to ask forgiveness if caught than permission in the first place. I do believe Obama knew nothing of spying on Merkel.

Keep on believing.....you're not alone
[www.verdasys.com image 450x302]

I'm open. I imagine the spies just said frkkit I'm doing it because we can. Do you think Obama ordered it? Wanted it? Sure he gets reports, but he doesn't have time to question sources is what I think. Do you think he ordered the phonetap and why? Or is this just more manufactured outrage?

Hmmm...our know nothing president?  I find it unlikely.....he is either lying when he says he knows nothing or he is severly out of the loop.....no matter how you slice it, it does not look good.  What are some of the things he claims to have known nothing about?

Fast & Furious
Benghazi
IRS targeting Tea Party members
NSA spying

Was he lying when he said we could keep our insurance policies, or our doctors or was he ignorant of the facts?


I am trying to understand what YOU think so I would appreciate an answer to my question as asked and not a BENGHAZIFASTANDFURIOUS regurgitation.

And God spare us on the replacing junk insurance debunking "lose my insurance" "horror" stories.
 
2013-11-01 03:49:12 PM

AeAe: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?


People across the political spectrum. Those that think that he makes America look weak. Those that think that his information will endanger people much like when Assange and Manning gave away troop movements. Those that think he's going to leak more info to Russia. Those that think the government is in the right to do such things.

They're there, whether you like it or not.
 
2013-11-01 04:14:11 PM

mcreadyblue: AeAe: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?

Patriots?


Close. The word you're looking for is morons.
 
2013-11-01 04:25:10 PM

dittybopper: TFA IS ABOUT THE NSA JUST DOING THE JOB IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, MONITORING FOREIGN FARKIN' GOVERNMENTS.

That's what we farkin' pay them for, and it's what they should be doing.

Now, those nations may be getting their collective panties in a bunch about it, but their signals intelligence organizations do, or attempt to do, the very same farking thing.

Save the outrage for the NSA warrantless wiretapping and collecting the metadata for all domestic phone calls.  *THAT* is worth getting pissed about.

This is more worthy of a pat on the back, and a "keep up the good work" Hallmark card.


Less of a pat on the back and more of a SLAP on the back of the head. If you spy on diplomatic allies, then you don't let that information get leaked. Snowden was working as a private contractor and not a government employee. Why entrust him with information like this? In fact, the NSA is acting with impunity. How could THEY ever get caught? They are the PERFECT spy agency. All that power is intoxicating. It's almost as if it causes some other kind of behavior, if only there were a word for it.
 
2013-11-01 04:54:12 PM
Perhaps is time to make a public audit of the NSA?.

/Never gonna happen
 
2013-11-01 05:52:11 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: dittybopper: TFA IS ABOUT THE NSA JUST DOING THE JOB IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, MONITORING FOREIGN FARKIN' GOVERNMENTS.

That's what we farkin' pay them for, and it's what they should be doing.

Now, those nations may be getting their collective panties in a bunch about it, but their signals intelligence organizations do, or attempt to do, the very same farking thing.

Save the outrage for the NSA warrantless wiretapping and collecting the metadata for all domestic phone calls.  *THAT* is worth getting pissed about.

This is more worthy of a pat on the back, and a "keep up the good work" Hallmark card.

Less of a pat on the back and more of a SLAP on the back of the head. If you spy on diplomatic allies, then you don't let that information get leaked. Snowden was working as a private contractor and not a government employee. Why entrust him with information like this? In fact, the NSA is acting with impunity. How could THEY ever get caught? They are the PERFECT spy agency. All that power is intoxicating. It's almost as if it causes some other kind of behavior, if only there were a word for it.


Yeah, because employees of the NSA have never revealed secrets before.
 
2013-11-01 06:14:16 PM

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: The Nuremberg Defense!


It is a valid defense in some cases. You know, ones that are neither the auschwitz nor easily and obviously clear things with respect to the constitution. Remember, even law makers and often four out nine justices do not see eye to eye on constitutional issues.

I do not expect perfection in that regard from executive branch employees, much less perfect restraint when it comes to spying on foreign countries.

You might prefer the fourth amemdment to apply to foreign citizens on foreign soil, but I don't.
 
2013-11-01 06:15:20 PM

AeAe: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark this becomes, it's harder and harder to claim that Snowden should be prosecuted at all.

People wanted Snowden prosecuted for exposing an illegal, out-of-control, government-sanctioned spying program?  Who are these people?


Isn't the problem that it was legal?
 
2013-11-01 06:41:19 PM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The bigger the clusterfark


I suggest: "feckless imbroglio"
 
2013-11-01 09:04:52 PM

dittybopper: Because People in power are Stupid: dittybopper: TFA IS ABOUT THE NSA JUST DOING THE JOB IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, MONITORING FOREIGN FARKIN' GOVERNMENTS.

That's what we farkin' pay them for, and it's what they should be doing.

Now, those nations may be getting their collective panties in a bunch about it, but their signals intelligence organizations do, or attempt to do, the very same farking thing.

Save the outrage for the NSA warrantless wiretapping and collecting the metadata for all domestic phone calls.  *THAT* is worth getting pissed about.

This is more worthy of a pat on the back, and a "keep up the good work" Hallmark card.

Less of a pat on the back and more of a SLAP on the back of the head. If you spy on diplomatic allies, then you don't let that information get leaked. Snowden was working as a private contractor and not a government employee. Why entrust him with information like this? In fact, the NSA is acting with impunity. How could THEY ever get caught? They are the PERFECT spy agency. All that power is intoxicating. It's almost as if it causes some other kind of behavior, if only there were a word for it.

Yeah, because employees of the NSA have never revealed secrets before.


I'm sorry, he was not an NSA employee. If you remember he was working for  Booz Allen Hamilton. So what happened to them? Did they lose their NSA contract? No, they are stronger than ever.
 
2013-11-01 09:53:53 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: dittybopper: Because People in power are Stupid: dittybopper: TFA IS ABOUT THE NSA JUST DOING THE JOB IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING, MONITORING FOREIGN FARKIN' GOVERNMENTS.

That's what we farkin' pay them for, and it's what they should be doing.

Now, those nations may be getting their collective panties in a bunch about it, but their signals intelligence organizations do, or attempt to do, the very same farking thing.

Save the outrage for the NSA warrantless wiretapping and collecting the metadata for all domestic phone calls.  *THAT* is worth getting pissed about.

This is more worthy of a pat on the back, and a "keep up the good work" Hallmark card.

Less of a pat on the back and more of a SLAP on the back of the head. If you spy on diplomatic allies, then you don't let that information get leaked. Snowden was working as a private contractor and not a government employee. Why entrust him with information like this? In fact, the NSA is acting with impunity. How could THEY ever get caught? They are the PERFECT spy agency. All that power is intoxicating. It's almost as if it causes some other kind of behavior, if only there were a word for it.

Yeah, because employees of the NSA have never revealed secrets before.

I'm sorry, he was not an NSA employee. If you remember he was working for  Booz Allen Hamilton. So what happened to them? Did they lose their NSA contract? No, they are stronger than ever.


I was pointing out, if you had actually followed the farking link, that NSA employees have done basically what Snowden did:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_and_Mitchell_defection

The Martin and Mitchell Defection occurred in September 1960 when two U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) cryptologists, William Hamilton Martin and Bernon F. Mitchell, defected to the Soviet Union. A secret 1963 NSA study said that "Beyond any doubt, no other event has had, or is likely to have in the future, a greater impact on the Agency's security program."[1]

Just because someone is a government employee instead of a contractor is no guarantee.
 
2013-11-01 09:55:19 PM
There is a petition at We The People (White House website) to defnd the NSA

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/defund-nsa/2ylzNwxP

It need 150 signatures to make it to the big board, go sign it.
 
2013-11-01 09:55:54 PM
Defund
 
2013-11-01 10:38:36 PM

flagrante: Defund


Defund the domestic monitoring programs.  Keep the funding for monitoring foreign governments.
 
2013-11-02 04:45:27 AM

dittybopper: flagrante: Defund

Defund the domestic monitoring programs.  Keep the funding for monitoring foreign governments.


That.
 
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