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(Slate)   Want to make some right-winger's head explode? Ask them why Sweden, an ultra-socialist country with super-high taxes that finance a massive health care, transportation, and other social programs, has more billionaires per capita than the US   (slate.com) divider line 248
    More: Interesting, Sweden, high taxes, socialist country, health cares, Nordic, Lists of tourist attractions, welfare states, Nordic countries  
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1683 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Nov 2013 at 9:43 AM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-01 08:11:48 AM
Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.
 
2013-11-01 08:13:43 AM
Link for the number I posted for NYC:
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-city-billionaires-repor t- article-1.1339929

My comparison is just as valid as the one from Slate, in other words, it's bullshiat for a ton of reasons.
 
2013-11-01 08:19:00 AM

dittybopper: And NYC has much lower taxes.


But really farkin' stupid gun laws.
 
2013-11-01 08:24:08 AM
FTA:   they do have some cautionary tales for left-wing thinking. The Swedish tax code was substantially reformed in 1990 to be friendlier toward capital accumulation, with a flat rate on investment income. Sweden has no taxes on inheritance or residential property, and its 22 percent corporate income tax rate is far lower than America's 35 percent. Even after spending cuts by the current center-right government, the Swedish public sector is still about half the total economy (much higher than here), but the taxes that finance it fall more heavily on consumption and less on business investment than in the U.S.
I wouldn't mind a consumption based tax system the issue is more in the implementation; how do you get from our current income based system to a consumption system while being non-regressive and revenue neutral.  Transactions between businesses need to be taxed at the same rate as consumer transactions.  Services would need to be tax at the same rate as well.

We have a consumption based economy.  As a general rule, if 'social policy' is to discourage an activity then you raise taxes on it to make it more expensive.  On the flip side, if you want to encourage an activity then you lower the taxes.  Social policy has been to discourage smoking so taxes are increased on tobacco whereas home ownership is encouraged so mortgage interest in deductible.

So if we are to start taxing consumption then we will be increasing the cost of activity on which our economy is measured.  Increasing the cost of consumption will discourage it resulting in a contraction of the economy.  Taxing consumption would encourage savings which may not be a bad thing in the US but it would have negative effects on the larger economy.
 
2013-11-01 08:33:19 AM
Interesting coincidence, but if that was truly the most significant statistic, that would make Monaco a model for the world.
 
2013-11-01 08:34:05 AM
Wow, chefs make a lot of money.
 
2013-11-01 08:37:56 AM

Nabb1: Interesting coincidence, but if that was truly the most significant statistic, that would make Monaco a model for the world.


Cute. But as you well know, the author's point isn't that we should find the country with the most billionaires and emulate them. His point is to counter right-wing claims that a strong social safety net causes the rich to flee in terror.

I know you're a smart guy - do you intentionally make specious arguments on the internet? If so, what do you get out of it?
 
2013-11-01 08:41:15 AM

doglover: dittybopper: And NYC has much lower taxes.

But really farkin' stupid gun laws.


It's simple really,

Stricter gun laws == more billionaires.
Stricter soda laws == more billionaires.
Study it out.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-11-01 08:51:17 AM

dittybopper: Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.


You mean blue state New York?  The one that has lower taxes than Sweden because it isn't a country and doesn't have it's own army or anything else that an independent nation would have?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-11-01 08:52:54 AM

doglover: dittybopper: And NYC has much lower taxes.

But really farkin' stupid gun laws.


True.  New York laws aren't strict enough.

We need the sort of gun laws that Sweden has here in the US.
 
2013-11-01 09:09:01 AM

vpb: dittybopper: Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.

You mean blue state New York?  The one that has lower taxes than Sweden because it isn't a country and doesn't have it's own army or anything else that an independent nation would have?


Tell that to Mayor Bloomberg:
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/mayor_bloombergs_army/

"I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world. I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom's annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have," Mayor Bloomberg said.
 
2013-11-01 09:17:59 AM
Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-11-01 09:25:24 AM

dittybopper: Tell that to Mayor Bloomberg:
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/01/mayor_bloombergs_army/

"I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world. I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom's annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have," Mayor Bloomberg said.


Yes, having a large police force is exactly the same as being an independent country and having and army AND police.   Having the UN in your city without having to pay for it is exactly the same as having to maintain embassies all over the world too.

To be fair though, it's probably more that Sweden doesn't have red states dragging them down.  If we could give the red states to Sweden then they wouldn't look so good.
 
2013-11-01 09:37:28 AM

dittybopper: "I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world. I have my own State Department, much to Foggy Bottom's annoyance. We have the United Nations in New York, and so we have an entree into the diplomatic world that Washington does not have," Mayor Bloomberg said.


This.

NYC even has its own aircraft carrier.
 
2013-11-01 09:39:42 AM

vpb: To be fair though, it's probably more that Sweden doesn't have red states dragging them down. If we could give the red states to Sweden then they wouldn't look so good.


THIS times infinity.

Truly, the GOP has done so much to damage America's place in the world over the last several decades. It's a tragedy. (Not sarcasm)
 
2013-11-01 09:47:08 AM
Because they also have topless beaches.  Duh!
 
2013-11-01 09:47:11 AM

grokca: Wow, chefs make a lot of money.


mmm... bork bork bork
 
2013-11-01 09:47:19 AM

minoridiot: Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?


HAHAHAHAHA....no
 
2013-11-01 09:47:32 AM

dittybopper: Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.


More taxes than a lot of the country, since municipal taxes are almost as high as state taxes.
 
2013-11-01 09:47:35 AM
The Swedish billionaires create wealth, not poverty. Big diff.
 
2013-11-01 09:48:32 AM
This should be a pretty good dog whistle thread.
 
2013-11-01 09:49:35 AM
It's probably because of all the Quantitative Easing that Sweden underwent relative to the European Central Bank.

Fartkea's Magic Krona Printing Press.
 
2013-11-01 09:50:37 AM

dittybopper: My comparison is just as valid as the one from Slate, in other words, it's bullshiat for a ton of reasons.


I just wanted to reiterate that.
 
2013-11-01 09:50:46 AM
Billionaires love socialism.  It's the best way to keep the little people from getting their money.
 
2013-11-01 09:50:58 AM

dittybopper: Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.


It's a totally valid comparison because everyone in Sweden lives in the financial capital of the continent.
 
2013-11-01 09:50:58 AM

doglover: dittybopper: And NYC has much lower taxes.

But really farkin' stupid gun laws.


Why is it most gun nuts appear to be actual regular nuts?
 
2013-11-01 09:51:13 AM
It's from raiding all those English and Scottish villages, duh!
 
2013-11-01 09:51:15 AM

grokca: Wow, chefs make a lot of money.


+1. Very quick and subtle.
 
2013-11-01 09:51:37 AM
I bet Brian Kilmeade has a really good opinion on this. His insight on Sweden is amazing.
 
2013-11-01 09:52:26 AM

EyeballKid: I bet Brian Kilmeade has a really good opinion on this. His insight on Sweden is amazing.


"is that the one with the meatballs or is it the one with the saunas"
 
2013-11-01 09:52:30 AM
Well they have those vast deposits of vibranium and adamantium.
 
2013-11-01 09:52:37 AM

Muta: I wouldn't mind a consumption based tax system the issue is more in the implementation; how do you get from our current income based system to a consumption system while being non-regressive and revenue neutral.


Start here.

Now that I've given you the link, the posts following this will be laced with spittle flecked rantings and feeble attempts at personal insults by people who have not read the proposal...which is a short, easy read as compared to the current abortion that is the US tax code. Is it perfect? Nope. But after reading it...more than once...I'm willing to give it a try. One of the things I like most about it is that it drives a dagger into the heart of K Street which I think is one of the biggest problems with the US tax code and how it affects the economy especially the middle class economy.
 
2013-11-01 09:52:48 AM
Tricksy Vikings
 
2013-11-01 09:53:12 AM

what_now: minoridiot: Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?

HAHAHAHAHA....no


Guess how I know you didn't read the article?
 
2013-11-01 09:53:47 AM
the quantity of selective perspective in this thread is impressive.
 
2013-11-01 09:53:49 AM
They don't have Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia to drag them down.
 
2013-11-01 09:53:59 AM
What about Bikini Teams per capita?
 
2013-11-01 09:54:24 AM

minoridiot: Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?


It depends on which US corporate tax rate you compare it to.  If you look at just the corporate rate then, yeah, Sweden is lower, if to compare the Swedish corporate rate with the US corporate rate with deductions then you might get a fairer comparison.
 
2013-11-01 09:54:35 AM

kxs401: Nabb1: Interesting coincidence, but if that was truly the most significant statistic, that would make Monaco a model for the world.

Cute. But as you well know, the author's point isn't that we should find the country with the most billionaires and emulate them. His point is to counter right-wing claims that a strong social safety net causes the rich to flee in terror.


Sweden also has one of the lowest debt to GDP ratios in the world despite also having one of the world's most robust social entitlement infrastructures, which is weird because I was told "entitlements" are solely responsible for the debt.    And Republicans reportedly think debt is the biggest issue facing the country, at least as long as there is a Democrat in office.
 
2013-11-01 09:54:35 AM

draypresct: what_now: minoridiot: Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?

HAHAHAHAHA....no

Guess how I know you didn't read the article?


 I know what the article says. However, I work for a Swedish billionaire, so I also know what the article DOESN'T say.
 
2013-11-01 09:55:08 AM
Want to make some right-winger's head explode?

"We elected a black guy TWICE" also works
 
2013-11-01 09:55:12 AM

dittybopper: dittybopper: My comparison is just as valid as the one from Slate, in other words, it's bullshiat for a ton of reasons.

I just wanted to reiterate that.


Are you really so jumpy that you have to agree with yourself?
 
2013-11-01 09:55:15 AM

Dancin_In_Anson: Muta: I wouldn't mind a consumption based tax system the issue is more in the implementation; how do you get from our current income based system to a consumption system while being non-regressive and revenue neutral.

Start here.

Now that I've given you the link, the posts following this will be laced with spittle flecked rantings and feeble attempts at personal insults by people who have not read the proposal...which is a short, easy read as compared to the current abortion that is the US tax code. Is it perfect? Nope. But after reading it...more than once...I'm willing to give it a try. One of the things I like most about it is that it drives a dagger into the heart of K Street which I think is one of the biggest problems with the US tax code and how it affects the economy especially the middle class economy.

 If you are for it, given your track record of accuracy, it's probably a steaming pile of crap. That would be the smart bet.
 
2013-11-01 09:55:26 AM
Sweden still makes things...US has Communist China make things.  Make things, make money
 
2013-11-01 09:57:01 AM

DubyaHater: They don't have Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, South Carolina, Florida, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee and Georgia to drag them down.


Yeah, this is why Scandinavia isn't using the Euro.
 
2013-11-01 09:57:16 AM

dittybopper: Let's compare apples to apples.  Sweden has about the same population as New York City (Sweden: 9.6 million, NYC: 8.3 million), but NYC has 5 *TIMES* more billionaires than Sweden:  70 vs. 14.

And NYC has much lower taxes.


The Swedish town of Danderyd has many more billionaires per capita than New York city. And has much higher tax.
Compare apple and oranges....
 
2013-11-01 09:57:29 AM
Head explode? Not likely.

They'll just blame black people err... our heterogeneous society.
 
2013-11-01 09:57:33 AM

FloridaFarkTag: Sweden still makes things...US has Communist China make things.  Make things, make money


Yeah. Weapons of Ass Destruction

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-11-01 09:57:49 AM
So the rest of the US should try to be more like Sweden and NYC?
 
2013-11-01 09:58:14 AM

minoridiot: Isn't their corporate tax rate much lower than the US?


Yes they have a lower base rate. However they also have fewer deductions and national sales taxes. So, in the end, American companies pay much less than the base rate.
 
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