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(LiveLeak)   Packard built Merlin V-1650-7 liquid-cooled V12, producing 1400hp from 1650 cubic inches with a two stage supercharger, and the sweetest piston engine sound ever produced. No argument will be brooked on this point   (liveleak.com) divider line 79
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5417 clicks; posted to Video » on 31 Oct 2013 at 5:44 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-31 04:59:30 PM
The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.
 
2013-10-31 05:03:20 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.


Without it, daylight precision bombing fails, is what it comes down to. Before the -51, the losses in the Eighth were tremendous.
 
2013-10-31 05:08:34 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.


I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.
 
2013-10-31 05:10:53 PM

change1211: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.


Corsairs? Ugly? With the gull wing? Get out of here.
 
2013-10-31 05:12:42 PM
Hard to hear it over the sound from the propeller.  I'd love to hear it out of the plane, though.  I wonder if anyone ever stuck one of those in a ground vehicle...
 
2013-10-31 05:14:53 PM

timujin: Hard to hear it over the sound from the propeller.  I'd love to hear it out of the plane, though.  I wonder if anyone ever stuck one of those in a ground vehicle...


It's been shoe-horned into hot rods before, I believe.
 
2013-10-31 05:15:58 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.


Couple of years ago I saw 10 Spitfires flying in formation, was such a fantastic sight and sound that I don't even care about arguing.
 
2013-10-31 05:21:58 PM

cgraves67: timujin: Hard to hear it over the sound from the propeller.  I'd love to hear it out of the plane, though.  I wonder if anyone ever stuck one of those in a ground vehicle...

It's been shoe-horned into hot rods before, I believe.


Here's one of them
 
2013-10-31 05:22:01 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: /all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.


All you need:

Spitfire Mk.IX and P-51D with basically the exact same engine, one a Rolls built Merlin 63, other a Packard built V1650...

Spit:
Power loading: ~4.7lbs/hp
Range: to the corner druggist
Top speed: 403mph

P-51D:

Power loading: ~7lbs/hp
Range: Berlin and back with a stop in Paris
Top speed: 437mph

Sorry Spit boys, only thing yours could do better was turning circles.
 
2013-10-31 05:23:25 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.


It was certainly a major component.  What really won the war was the Arsenal of Democracy - US companies doing the right thing and offering their factories and capability to the government without gouging and dicking around as is the practice today.  Ford pumping out B-24s at a rate of one per hour, GM producing heavy trucks and airplane engines, Chrysler developing and building tanks as fast as they could, etc.  And sure, those companies made some profit from it, but they knew their job was to put out the best military hardware they could at a fair price, and not try to take advantage of the government in a vulnerable position nor strike backroom deals with the primary goal of stuffing their own coffers.
 
2013-10-31 05:34:36 PM

vossiewulf: Lt. Cheese Weasel: /all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

All you need:

Spitfire Mk.IX and P-51D with basically the exact same engine, one a Rolls built Merlin 63, other a Packard built V1650...

Spit:
Power loading: ~4.7lbs/hp
Range: to the corner druggist
Top speed: 403mph

P-51D:
Power loading: ~7lbs/hp
Range: Berlin and back with a stop in Paris
Top speed: 437mph

Sorry Spit boys, only thing yours could do better was turning circles.


Nice.  I thought there a few more stats for the 'Stang.  Ceiling?  Climb rate? Better guns for sure. And more armament packages. (tank buster, etc)
 
2013-10-31 05:37:25 PM

Slaxl: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

Couple of years ago I saw 10 Spitfires flying in formation, was such a fantastic sight and sound that I don't even care about arguing.


That is really cool.
 
2013-10-31 05:51:36 PM
Here you go, just the engine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Et9EtogGJfM
 
2013-10-31 05:53:56 PM
P-51... Cadillac of the Sky!
 
2013-10-31 05:55:57 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Nice.  I thought there a few more stats for the 'Stang.  Ceiling?  Climb rate? Better guns for sure. And more armament packages. (tank buster, etc)


Well actually no on almost all points there. Compared to Spit IX HF, ceiling was about the same, Spit climbed better, and I'd take the 4 20mm Hispano cannons of the Spit (at least with the Universal Wing) over the 51's six .50s. Somewhere I still have a series of tests the Brits did during the war of various air weapons; 20mm cannons put 18" holes in airplane structures, while the .50s made perfect little half inch holes. Yes the standard AP/tracer/incendiary loadout of the Brownings made them more effective than half inch holes would suggest, because the AP rounds wouldn't slow down making holes in both sides of any part of a plane, and the incendiaries were good at setting anything that started leaking as a result on fire. But given a choice I would take the Hispano or the MG-151 over Ma Deuce.

The other place the 51 rocked over Spits was roll rate. Spits had torsionally weak wings with a comparatively low aileron reversal speed, so get a Spit going fast and you'd better be pointed in the right direction because changing the lift vector is going to be a slow process. The 51 on the other hand had the most torsionally stiff wing of WWW2 fighters, they couldn't even find the reversal speed. The FW-190 rolled much better than the 51 at lower speeds, but again hit reversal in the upper 400s mph, whereas the roll rate curve for the 51 just kept going up with speed.

But the single weirdest thing about the 51 is its low drag, which was so low it was almost off the charts compared to other WW2 fighters. That's why it was much faster with lower power loading than the Spit, and why it had such amazing range. And the thing is no one still really understands why. Yes there are various ideas... Meredith effect used in the radiator design which turned the radiator assembly into zero drag, laminar flow wing, flush riveting, etc. But the numbers are so crazy even those all totaled up don't fully explain it. I read an article recently where a guy was suggesting that area ruling came into play with the 51's fuselage shape, but that doesn't make much sense. Bottom line, drag wise the 51 remains kind of spooky.
 
2013-10-31 05:58:02 PM
timujin

Hard to hear it over the sound from the propeller.

Yep.
 
2013-10-31 06:00:40 PM

cameroncrazy1984: change1211: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.

Corsairs? Ugly? With the gull wing? Get out of here.


Hah, just a joke. The Corsair is one of my favourite aircraft.
 
2013-10-31 06:00:57 PM

vossiewulf: Lt. Cheese Weasel: Nice.  I thought there a few more stats for the 'Stang.  Ceiling?  Climb rate? Better guns for sure. And more armament packages. (tank buster, etc)

Well actually no on almost all points there. Compared to Spit IX HF, ceiling was about the same, Spit climbed better, and I'd take the 4 20mm Hispano cannons of the Spit (at least with the Universal Wing) over the 51's six .50s. Somewhere I still have a series of tests the Brits did during the war of various air weapons; 20mm cannons put 18" holes in airplane structures, while the .50s made perfect little half inch holes. Yes the standard AP/tracer/incendiary loadout of the Brownings made them more effective than half inch holes would suggest, because the AP rounds wouldn't slow down making holes in both sides of any part of a plane, and the incendiaries were good at setting anything that started leaking as a result on fire. But given a choice I would take the Hispano or the MG-151 over Ma Deuce.

The other place the 51 rocked over Spits was roll rate. Spits had torsionally weak wings with a comparatively low aileron reversal speed, so get a Spit going fast and you'd better be pointed in the right direction because changing the lift vector is going to be a slow process. The 51 on the other hand had the most torsionally stiff wing of WWW2 fighters, they couldn't even find the reversal speed. The FW-190 rolled much better than the 51 at lower speeds, but again hit reversal in the upper 400s mph, whereas the roll rate curve for the 51 just kept going up with speed.

But the single weirdest thing about the 51 is its low drag, which was so low it was almost off the charts compared to other WW2 fighters. That's why it was much faster with lower power loading than the Spit, and why it had such amazing range. And the thing is no one still really understands why. Yes there are various ideas... Meredith effect used in the radiator design which turned the radiator assembly into zero drag, laminar flow wing, flus ...


Thank you for the education.  Much appreciated.
 
2013-10-31 06:09:19 PM
That's my all time favorite sound at any airshow I've attended.  A Merlin V-12 in a P-51or a Spitfire is sublime.
 
2013-10-31 06:10:36 PM
If sex were an aircraft, it would be a P-51.
 
2013-10-31 06:11:53 PM

cameroncrazy1984: cgraves67: timujin: Hard to hear it over the sound from the propeller.  I'd love to hear it out of the plane, though.  I wonder if anyone ever stuck one of those in a ground vehicle...

It's been shoe-horned into hot rods before, I believe.

Here's one of them


My understanding is the Unlimited Hydroplanes used to use old airplane engines back when they were called Thunderboats.  Then they all switched to turbine engines and the nickname Whinyboats didn't catch on.
 
2013-10-31 06:12:06 PM

vossiewulf: Bottom line, drag wise the 51 remains kind of spooky.


And she's a sexy spook at that.
 
2013-10-31 06:14:15 PM

RocketRod: P-51... Cadillac of the Sky!


I read that in his Batman voice.
 
2013-10-31 06:14:37 PM

change1211: Hah, just a joke. The Corsair is one of my favourite aircraft.


The interesting thing there is three US fighters all using essentially the same engine, the Pratt & Whitney R-2800: The F6F Hellcat, the P-47, and the F4U. The Corsair was the best of the bunch. Yes the 47 was faster at altitude with the huge supercharger, but it couldn't turn or climb worth a damn and hit compressibility easily which locked up the controls. The Hellcat could turn and climb pretty well but was pretty slow for its HP. The Corsair rolled very well, turned extremely well for an aircraft its size, ditto climb, and was very reasonably fast. It and the 51 were the best US designs of the war that saw extensive service.
 
2013-10-31 06:20:19 PM
I've always been partial to the P-47 from a general engineering standpoint. Big, heavy, stupidly powerful (2800hp on the water injected models), heavy, and with an air cooled radial engine that would get you home with cannon shells rattling around in half the cylinders. Eight wing mounted .50 cals would bring the hurt, and if you ran out of ammo you could just ram sh*t and probably win.

The P-51 was definitely more nimble, a far sight prettier, and maaaaaybe better in the sound department though.
 
2013-10-31 06:22:51 PM

hardinparamedic: And she's a sexy spook at that.


Yes it's like comparing Victoria's Secret models, but I've decided the one I think is sexiest is the Allison engined prototype, the NA-73. Shallower rear fuselage than the P-51A/B/C (particularly B/C), and just sleek as hell. Everyone writes off the Allison engined Mustangs since the single stage supercharger made them crap over 15k feet, but they forget that below that alt and especially down in the 5k range there was nothing that could touch them, they were bat out of hell fast at low altitude. Brits continued to use them all the way through the war for low altitude reconnaissance and hell raising and the loss rate was very low.

upload.wikimedia.org
farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2013-10-31 06:23:27 PM

vossiewulf: It and the 51 were the best US designs of the war that saw extensive service


The Hellcat and Corsair and the P-47 could also absorb a metric crapload of 20mm cannon shells and not only keep the pilot safe, but keep on flying too.  If I was guaranteed to get shot at from behind, put me in a Hellcat, please.
 
2013-10-31 06:26:24 PM

vossiewulf: hardinparamedic: And she's a sexy spook at that.

Yes it's like comparing Victoria's Secret models, but I've decided the one I think is sexiest is the Allison engined prototype, the NA-73.


But this girl's canopy bubble is a size "H", and it's so sexy, don't you think?
mustangsmustangs.com
 
2013-10-31 06:40:04 PM

Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war.


If a single aircraft won the war, it'd be the Ilyushin Il-2. They destroyed panzers like no-one's business.

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Flying over Berlin.
 
2013-10-31 06:51:38 PM

I'm just asking questions: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war.

If a single aircraft won the war, it'd be the Ilyushin Il-2. They destroyed panzers like no-one's business.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 791x518]

Flying over Berlin.


looking at that, all I can think of is Indiana Jones' dad shooting up the tail of their plane. Get that commie shiat outta here with that vertical windshield
 
2013-10-31 06:54:37 PM

I'm just asking questions: If a single aircraft won the war, it'd be the Ilyushin Il-2. They destroyed panzers like no-one's business


I'd heard of it, but 36,000 built?  Crazy.  And a 600 RPM 900 m/s 23mm cannon?

Crazy.
 
2013-10-31 07:11:01 PM
Love that roar, then the supercharger whine. My new ringtone. Thanks, subby!
 
2013-10-31 07:17:10 PM

Hot Carl To Go: Get that commie shiat outta here with that vertical windshield


You have let down our country and our Red Army. You have the nerve not to manufacture IL-2s until now. Our Red Army now needs IL-2 aircraft like the air it breathes, like the bread it eats. Shenkman produces one IL-2 a day and Tretyakov builds one or two

No wonder they built 36,000 of them.

And check out the specs before you poobah:

The Il-2 is a single-engine, propeller-driven, low-wing monoplane of mixed construction with a crew of two (one in early versions), specially designed for assault operations. Its most notable feature was the inclusion of armor in an airframe load-bearing scheme. Armor plates replaced the frame and paneling throughout the nacelle and middle part of the fuselage, and an armored hull made of riveted homogeneous armor steel AB-1 (AB-2) secured the aircraft's engine, cockpit, water and oil radiators, and fuel tanks
 
2013-10-31 07:21:20 PM

Marcus Aurelius: You have let down our country and our Red Army. You have the nerve not to manufacture IL-2s until now. Our Red Army now needs IL-2 aircraft like the air it breathes, like the bread it eats. Shenkman produces one IL-2 a day and Tretyakov builds one or two


Damn you, HTML!  That quote is from Josef Stalin.

I've got trick or treater invasion here I have to repel.
 
2013-10-31 07:22:52 PM

cameroncrazy1984: bombing fails


Bombing?  You're so cute.
 
2013-10-31 08:19:34 PM

cameroncrazy1984: change1211: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.

Corsairs? Ugly? With the gull wing? Get out of here.


I knew a guy who owned both a P-51 and a Corsair.

Just thought I'd put that out there, so you too can share the burden of my envy.
 
2013-10-31 08:25:44 PM
Saw one of these in person just a week or two ago. No video can do it justice. It's just something you have to witness in person. I was filming and finally just put the damn camera down so I could experience it myself without any distractions.

And while we're on the subject of engine porn: V12 Brutus
 
2013-10-31 08:37:03 PM

change1211: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.


F6F did all the real work. Highest kill-to-loss ratio of any aircraft in the Pacific theater. F4U just mopped up the leftovers.
 
2013-10-31 08:46:02 PM
I came... Lord I love WWII planes, especially the Mustang. I wish there was a soundtrack of their engine and flight noise. I'd listen to it while I worked.
 
2013-10-31 08:50:59 PM
www.aviation-history.com

Willy Messerschmitt laughs at your propeller driven aircrates.
 
2013-10-31 08:52:44 PM

kim jong-un: cameroncrazy1984: change1211: Lt. Cheese Weasel: The P-51 Mustang won the war. Let's argue about that.  Because it did.

/all you dodgy Spitfire and Hurricaners, come at me bro.

I always thought it was the F4U, it was so ugly it just scared the enemy away.

Corsairs? Ugly? With the gull wing? Get out of here.

I knew a guy who owned both a P-51 and a Corsair.

Just thought I'd put that out there, so you too can share the burden of my envy.


I hate you for making me hate him. You bastard friend of a bastard.
 
2013-10-31 08:53:11 PM
It may not sound the sexiest, but the P-38 was one of the prettiest planes out of WWII:

img708.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-31 08:53:43 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Marcus Aurelius: You have let down our country and our Red Army. You have the nerve not to manufacture IL-2s until now. Our Red Army now needs IL-2 aircraft like the air it breathes, like the bread it eats. Shenkman produces one IL-2 a day and Tretyakov builds one or two

Damn you, HTML!  That quote is from Josef Stalin.

I've got trick or treater invasion here I have to repel.


The Halloweenies!!!!
 
2013-10-31 08:54:05 PM

Marcus Aurelius: vossiewulf: hardinparamedic: And she's a sexy spook at that.

Yes it's like comparing Victoria's Secret models, but I've decided the one I think is sexiest is the Allison engined prototype, the NA-73.

But this girl's canopy bubble is a size "H", and it's so sexy, don't you think?
[mustangsmustangs.com image 500x333]


I think I need to spend another half hour listening to various engine soundtracks while my wife rolls her eyes at my permanent state of immaturity. And then I will decide which is sexier.
 
2013-10-31 09:00:10 PM
Goddamn that was nice - thanks, subbie. The P-51 was an amazing aircraft for it's time, and I've been lucky enough to see one flyby in person more than once.

But I'll take a P-38 Lightning any day. Imagine two (almost as awesome) engines screaming by at an equivalent speed. I've only seen one flyby of a P-38 and it was indescribable. It had to be the most bad-ass aircraft of WWII.
 
2013-10-31 09:00:32 PM
What a beautiful plane. I've read they were a biatch to fly, though.
 
2013-10-31 09:54:23 PM

Dinki: [www.aviation-history.com image 600x400]

Willy Messerschmitt laughs at your propeller driven aircrates.


If only Adolf had given him another 10 years to design an intercontinental bomber.  The Luftwaffe always suffered from short range thinking in any case, and the Swallow was no exception.  Talk about terrible gas mileage.
 
2013-10-31 10:00:51 PM

Lsherm: It may not sound the sexiest, but the P-38 was one of the prettiest planes out of WWII:

[img708.imageshack.us image 850x564]


It also shot down Admiral Yamamoto.  The worst part was the P-38s had to follow up with daily raids for the next month, lest the Japanese realize it wasn't just a weird coincidence.

Not pretty.  But the Japanese had some very special names for the P-38.  It was one of the only US strike fighters that did not have convergent guns - it had a quad 20mm in the nose aimed at infinity.
 
2013-10-31 10:22:49 PM
dad.incomingwormhole.com
 
2013-10-31 10:22:55 PM

John Buck 41: What a beautiful plane. I've read they were a biatch to fly, though.


No fighter aircraft that's designed to be the smallest and lightest structure possible behind a 1500hp engine is going to be easy to fly, but actually the 51s were comparatively docile except when the fuel tank they added behind the pilot for Berlin range was full. With that full the CG was a lot farther aft than you'd prefer, as they say CG too far forward the plane doesn't fly well, too far aft and it may never fly again- makes the plane really unstable in the pitch axis. It also had some nasty departure characteristics, but again all WW2 fighters did... get them too slow, hanging on prop at high throttle and they're going to depart into some kind of snap roll into a spin ugliness.
 
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