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(Fox News)   Pentagon civil rights training manual says white males may have some advantages in our society. Apparently some people have a problem with this   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, training manual, Air Force bases, white male, slave rebellion, Southern Poverty Law Center, civil rights  
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1495 clicks; posted to Politics » on 31 Oct 2013 at 4:38 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-31 02:56:12 PM  
DEOMI instructors were also responsible for briefings at bases around the country that falsely labeled evangelical Christians, Catholics and a number of high-profile Christian ministries as domestic hate groups.

I guess they could use a different, less accurate label.
 
2013-10-31 02:58:52 PM  
As a healthy, white, heterosexual, Christian male, I can't argue with him.
 
2013-10-31 02:59:06 PM  
Is this another bout of poutrage from Mr. I-identify-with-hate-groups-identified-as-hate-groups-by-the-Pentagon ?
*clicks link - smug mug sighted*
Apparently so.
 
2013-10-31 03:01:08 PM  
When Allen West is your token black guy for your counter-quotation about nuances of power and race in society, you should probably take a hard look in the mirror and think about where your life has taken you.
 
2013-10-31 03:01:44 PM  
 
2013-10-31 03:03:23 PM  
Unearned? My parents put a great deal of effort into making sure I was a white anglo-saxon, thank you very much!
 
2013-10-31 03:06:25 PM  
You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a black man will be beaten, or a truckload of Latinos will have their voting rights revoked, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old white guy will feel uncomfortable, well then everyone loses their minds!
 
2013-10-31 03:06:25 PM  
Meh.  The training manual only has 3/5ths of a point.
 
2013-10-31 03:06:45 PM  
My white privilege allows me to be outraged by the mere suggestion.
 
2013-10-31 03:07:01 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: DEOMI instructors were also responsible for briefings at bases around the country that falsely labeled evangelical Christians, Catholics and a number of high-profile Christian ministries as domestic hate groups.

I guess they could use a different, less accurate label.


They didn't label evangelical Christians and Catholics as hate groups. They labeled "American Family Association" as a hate group. I'm not sure which other "ministries" where labeled, unless the author considers the "Ku Klux Klan" to be a high-profile Christian ministry.
 
2013-10-31 03:10:00 PM  

Bloody William: You know... You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a black man will be beaten, or a truckload of Latinos will have their voting rights revoked, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old white guy will feel uncomfortable, well then everyone loses their minds!


i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-31 03:27:24 PM  
I'm not sure how everyone else read this... but I got the sense that the statements that they were quoting from the manual were supposed controversial in some way. But the author didn't explain why he thought any of these were controversial. Was the controversy in those quotes supposed to be obvious and that's why it wasn't worth explaining? Because it sure wasn't obvious to me and I always did well in those reading comprehension tests in school.

The only controversy that was explained seems to be the part about Christians being hate groups... but as explained by a poster above... it was some specific subsets of Christianity that were labelled that way (I had assumed that w/o reading the report or the comment). And that claim was made without actually using a direct quote from the report. For some reason the author couldn't find a quote he could use [even out of context] to support this claim.
 
2013-10-31 03:28:33 PM  
"Todd Starnes"

Thereby dashing any hope the article will be well reasoned and objective.
 
2013-10-31 03:47:18 PM  
What's the screening process for the guy who gets to go to the center of the trailer park, blow into the alp horn and announce, "Barack Hussein Obama has slighted another well-off white! Muster the Jazzies! Compile the email forwards! Some day it could be you," because that sounds like something I'd be interested in.
 
2013-10-31 03:56:11 PM  
Truth hurts.

It's good to be white. And in charge.
 
2013-10-31 03:59:11 PM  

Slaxl: Unearned? My parents put a great deal of effort into making sure I was a white anglo-saxon, thank you very much!


don't you mean your grandparents?  "Mah daughter ain't gonna marry one uh them coloreds"
 
2013-10-31 04:05:47 PM  

Slaxl: Unearned? My parents put a great deal of effort into making sure I was a white anglo-saxon, thank you very much!


Despite your mother's proclivities.
 
2013-10-31 04:06:14 PM  

impaler: Dusk-You-n-Me: DEOMI instructors were also responsible for briefings at bases around the country that falsely labeled evangelical Christians, Catholics and a number of high-profile Christian ministries as domestic hate groups.

I guess they could use a different, less accurate label.

They didn't label evangelical Christians and Catholics as hate groups. They labeled "American Family Association" as a hate group. I'm not sure which other "ministries" where labeled, unless the author considers the "Ku Klux Klan" to be a high-profile Christian ministry.


Wasn't it this powerpoint slide that got them in trouble?
www.wnd.com
Hard to say exactly what the context is without the corresponding verbal presentation, but putting "Catholicism (US/Christian)" in the same list as "Ku Klux Klan (US/Christian)" and "Al Quaeda (Transnational/Islam)" seems like a bad idea to me.
Or, is there a really poorly named hate group that's distinct from the Catholic Church but still named itself "Catholicism".
 
2013-10-31 04:08:27 PM  

serial_crusher: Slaxl: Unearned? My parents put a great deal of effort into making sure I was a white anglo-saxon, thank you very much!

don't you mean your grandparents?  "Mah daughter ain't gonna marry one uh them coloreds"


Good point. This has been a work in progress for generations. How dare they try and claim it as unearned?

ecmoRandomNumbers: Slaxl: Unearned? My parents put a great deal of effort into making sure I was a white anglo-saxon, thank you very much!

Despite your mother's proclivities.


Exactly. That's my ma. Always doing things... the hard way.
 
2013-10-31 04:11:15 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is


I'd change that to "Straight White Male in America born in the late 20th century from the suburbs (or rich neighborhood in the inner city) who was raised in a good culture that happens to be generally dominant in America at this point in time and for whom other people in that culture are willing to make allowances": The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is.  The straight white male is nice to have in that you can, for a time, look like the above, which gets you in quite a few doors (and honestly, as long as the gay isn't preceded by 'flaming', you'll probably do all right in most places (Offer not valid in the South or rural places)), but that extra little bit is really useful.

Because "straight white male" isn't exactly a help to "straight white male meth tweaker in rural West VA anywhere (Did a trip up through Southern Oregon and Northern CA.  LOTS of occupied burned-out shacks) making $15K a year living in a burned out shack"

And on the other hand "Black Male" is a fairly hard difficulty setting because they look like from a distance the much harder difficulty setting "Poor Inner-city black male who dropped out of high school at 12 and joined the gangs to go mug people and deal drugs" (though "Black Male in Suit" is actually relatively easy because suit removes "joined the gangs" and implies "well-educated").  Or in much the same way, "Arab in America" is going to be quite hard because of "1st generation Muslim in America who thinks it'd be a bright idea to set off bombs at marathons" and "Middle Eastern Arab who thinks it's a good idea to crash planes into buildings".

Mind you, looking like a good culture (ie: white/asian male or well-dressed, no visible tattoos) HELPS, but it's not the entire farking game like that article makes it out to be.

/Culture is underrated because race correlates to culture, and we can't have that.  Then we'd be admitting that the ghettos are ghetto because a small, yet loud, minority of those in them are stupid, violent, undereducated farkheads and they ruin the whole damn thing.
//And then because the other 90% happen to look like the farkheads, we prejudge them and screw them over and make them more likely to be farkheads because filtering on "people who happen to look like they might be farkheads" is a fairly good way to avoid farkheads (albeit with a VAST false positive rate).
 
2013-10-31 04:14:17 PM  
Outrage over a training manual. White people problems
 
2013-10-31 04:24:59 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Outrage over a training manual. White people problems


It is our burden.
 
2013-10-31 04:40:46 PM  
You are god dam right I'm upset about it. As a White Male I'm upset that I don't have more privilege. Ever since we gave women the vote we have been suffering. Isn't it time to end women's suffrage, have we not all suffered enouhg?
 
2013-10-31 04:40:50 PM  
I thought collectively we agreed this was, in fact, the case and it was so prevalent we created affirmative action programs.

And now we're saying it isn't or that it isn't but we shouldn't say it is? WTF is going on?
 
2013-10-31 04:40:51 PM  
"I'm white! You can't even hurt my feelings." -Louis C.K.
 
2013-10-31 04:42:38 PM  

Contrabulous Flabtraption: I thought collectively we agreed this was, in fact, the case


We did.  Some people want to keep it that way, so pretend to get mad when they hear dissenting voices in the ranks.
 
2013-10-31 04:43:35 PM  
Just the minute christians stop trying to make gays subhuman using terror and bullying and psychological warfare in schools, churches, and the state we'll take you off the list

/oh, and that whole confederate flag thing, see what you can do about that
 
2013-10-31 04:44:49 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: When Allen West is your token black guy for your counter-quotation about nuances of power and race in society, you should probably take a hard look in the mirror and think about where your life has taken you.


And so even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow, I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood and waterboard the sons of Mohammed.
 
2013-10-31 04:45:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: As a healthy, white, heterosexual, Christian male, I can't argue with him.


Of course, it's your God-given right.
 
2013-10-31 04:46:27 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is


Well, totally rich is always easy mode.  Really it's like god mode.
 
2013-10-31 04:46:43 PM  

sobriquet by any other name: Just the minute christians stop trying to make gays subhuman using terror and bullying and psychological warfare in schools, churches, and the state we'll take you off the list

/oh, and that whole confederate flag thing, see what you can do about that


Funny thing, it's not even the Confederate flag.  It's the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.  That screams treason to me.
 
2013-10-31 04:46:53 PM  

meyerkev: Dusk-You-n-Me: Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is

I'd change that to "Straight White Male in America born in the late 20th century from the suburbs (or rich neighborhood in the inner city) who was raised in a good culture that happens to be generally dominant in America at this point in time and for whom other people in that culture are willing to make allowances": The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is.  The straight white male is nice to have in that you can, for a time, look like the above, which gets you in quite a few doors (and honestly, as long as the gay isn't preceded by 'flaming', you'll probably do all right in most places (Offer not valid in the South or rural places)), but that extra little bit is really useful.

Because "straight white male" isn't exactly a help to "straight white male meth tweaker in rural West VA anywhere (Did a trip up through Southern Oregon and Northern CA.  LOTS of occupied burned-out shacks) making $15K a year living in a burned out shack"

And on the other hand "Black Male" is a fairly hard difficulty setting because they look like from a distance the much harder difficulty setting "Poor Inner-city black male who dropped out of high school at 12 and joined the gangs to go mug people and deal drugs" (though "Black Male in Suit" is actually relatively easy because suit removes "joined the gangs" and implies "well-educated").  Or in much the same way, "Arab in America" is going to be quite hard because of "1st generation Muslim in America who thinks it'd be a bright idea to set off bombs at marathons" and "Middle Eastern Arab who thinks it's a good idea to crash planes into buildings".

Mind you, looking like a good culture (ie: white/asian male or well-dressed, no visible tattoos) HELPS, but it's not the entire farking game like that article makes it out to be.

/Culture is underrated because race correlates to culture, and we can't have that.  Then we'd be admitting that the ghettos are ghetto because a ...


You are completely ignoring income inequality - when a small minority of whites own 80% of the wealth, than the (some might call natural, if inhumane) reflex to surround yourself with people that look like yourself is no longer a boogyman.. the entire notion of trickle-down is that it trickles evenly.

And when it doesn't? Because of a tiny minority has massive influence? We get what we have today. It's not just about look, it's about modern and unwarranted tribalism that the offenders would never, ever say is racism.. it just ended up like that, right? Right??

Wrong.
 
2013-10-31 04:46:54 PM  
FTA: "I'm participating in teaching things that are not true," the instructor told me.

If you don't consider it true that
a healthy, white, heterosexual, Christian male receives many unearned advantages of social privilege, whereas a black, homosexual, atheist female in poor health receives many unearned disadvantages of social privilege
...then you're probably part of the problem, dude.

Granted, I think a lot of how "social privilege" theory gets waved about is sloppy as hell, and consider the underlying framework in serious need of more rigor; but on the one hand some of that opinion may simply be from how I'm part of the problem, and on the other I don't doubt that a rigorous framework is possible, nor that less injustice results from using the current hack for engineering rule-of-thumb work meanwhile than would result while awaiting a more rigorous framework.

FTA: I'd like to know how teaching soldiers, airmen and sailors about white privilege and fomenting racial division helps them protect our nation from the enemy.

Teaching about it helps the social haves recognize it, and work to minimize its impact, which increases inclusiveness and enables social have-nots to be judged and to contribute based on actual ability, not merely from socially granted privilege

The have-nots generally are damned well already aware of and resentful of these inequities. It's only fomenting division in so far as some undeserving haves are going to find out they're can look forward to to working harder if they want to continue to have the advantages they've been taking for granted as their normal due, and in so far as actively pissing people off over the underlying inequities may be an inevitable by-product of making them face those inequities to enable eliminating them.

/I bet his parents didn't like the Brown v Board rulings, either.
 
2013-10-31 04:47:52 PM  
The manual is absolutely right. Straight, white, cis, Christian males have never faced any kind of systemic discrimination like non-straight people have, non-white people have, non-cis people have, non-Christians have, or non-males have. If you think that's controversial, you're a farking moron who has never read a history book.
 
2013-10-31 04:48:10 PM  
Apparently some people have a problem with this

Let me guess....white males?
 
2013-10-31 04:50:17 PM  
[holyfarkwhitedog.jpg]
 
2013-10-31 04:51:35 PM  
Farking Fox News again.
 
2013-10-31 04:51:39 PM  

Serious Black: cis


hurk
 
2013-10-31 04:52:17 PM  

RedPhoenix122: sobriquet by any other name: Just the minute christians stop trying to make gays subhuman using terror and bullying and psychological warfare in schools, churches, and the state we'll take you off the list

/oh, and that whole confederate flag thing, see what you can do about that

Funny thing, it's not even the Confederate flag.  It's the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.  That screams treason to me.


me too: "the dukes of hazard" were not, in fact, good role models.

/this is my shocked face
//every time a regressive claims the republican party is the "party of lincoln" I want to scream: "You guys were democrats right up until democracy included minorities, then surprise, all the dixiecrats wanted a republic, and that's where the republican party of today came from. The parties switched in all but name around the time of the civil rights movement and trying to escape and revise their history to be "the good guys" is goddamn offensive.
 
2013-10-31 04:52:48 PM  

Serious Black: The manual is absolutely right. Straight, white, cis, Christian males have never faced any kind of systemic discrimination like non-straight people have, non-white people have, non-cis people have, non-Christians have, or non-males have. If you think that's controversial, you're a farking moron who has never read a history book.


Well...there was a time when being a Christian could get you into some trouble. Of course, it was the straight white males of [dominant religion] who were doing the persecuting.
 
2013-10-31 04:53:44 PM  
Several dozen U.S. Army active duty and reserve troops were told last week that the American Family Association, a well-respected Christian ministry, should be classified as a domestic hate group because the group advocates for traditional family values.

Is this the same ministry that is obsessed with gay marriage and compares homosexuals as pedophiles and being incestuous?
 
2013-10-31 04:53:55 PM  
"I'm participating in teaching things that are not true," the instructor told me. He asked not to be identified because he feared reprisals.
"I should not be in a position to do that," he said. "It violates Constitutional principles, but it also violates my conscience. And I'm not going to do it - not going to do it."



But he fears reprisals? What's the reprisal for not doing your job?
 
2013-10-31 04:54:37 PM  
076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com

There's a white, one-legged busboy in here right now... that won't change places with my black ass. He's going, ''Nah, man, l don't wanna switch. l wanna ride this white thing out. See where it takes me.''
 
2013-10-31 04:56:30 PM  

sprawl15: Serious Black: cis

hurk


It's so disgusting when people use academic terms that denote meaningful categories. Vocabularies should stay small and I shouldn't have to learn anything new because I'm more important than other people.
 
2013-10-31 04:56:43 PM  

meyerkev: Dusk-You-n-Me: Straight White Male: The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is

I'd change that to "Straight White Male in America born in the late 20th century from the suburbs (or rich neighborhood in the inner city) who was raised in a good culture that happens to be generally dominant in America at this point in time and for whom other people in that culture are willing to make allowances": The Lowest Difficulty Setting There Is.  The straight white male is nice to have in that you can, for a time, look like the above, which gets you in quite a few doors (and honestly, as long as the gay isn't preceded by 'flaming', you'll probably do all right in most places (Offer not valid in the South or rural places)), but that extra little bit is really useful.

Because "straight white male" isn't exactly a help to "straight white male meth tweaker in rural West VA anywhere (Did a trip up through Southern Oregon and Northern CA.  LOTS of occupied burned-out shacks) making $15K a year living in a burned out shack"

And on the other hand "Black Male" is a fairly hard difficulty setting because they look like from a distance the much harder difficulty setting "Poor Inner-city black male who dropped out of high school at 12 and joined the gangs to go mug people and deal drugs" (though "Black Male in Suit" is actually relatively easy because suit removes "joined the gangs" and implies "well-educated").  Or in much the same way, "Arab in America" is going to be quite hard because of "1st generation Muslim in America who thinks it'd be a bright idea to set off bombs at marathons" and "Middle Eastern Arab who thinks it's a good idea to crash planes into buildings".

Mind you, looking like a good culture (ie: white/asian male or well-dressed, no visible tattoos) HELPS, but it's not the entire farking game like that article makes it out to be.

/Culture is underrated because race correlates to culture, and we can't have that.  Then we'd be admitting that the ghettos are ghetto because a ...


He addresses that in the original article and the followup posts.
 
2013-10-31 04:56:56 PM  

sprawl15: Serious Black: cis

hurk


Come again?

qorkfiend: Serious Black: The manual is absolutely right. Straight, white, cis, Christian males have never faced any kind of systemic discrimination like non-straight people have, non-white people have, non-cis people have, non-Christians have, or non-males have. If you think that's controversial, you're a farking moron who has never read a history book.

Well...there was a time when being a Christian could get you into some trouble. Of course, it was the straight white males of [dominant religion] who were doing the persecuting.


Good point, though I think it holds true if you focus exclusively on America. Has there ever been a period in American history when Christianity was not the dominant religion?
 
2013-10-31 04:57:26 PM  
Teaching about it helps the social haves recognize it, and work to minimize its impact, which increases inclusiveness and enables social have-nots to be judged and to contribute based on actual ability, not merely from socially granted privilege


No, it forments racial division. Anybody with *any* common sense realizes that.

/"Hello class, this is Johnny. He's awesome and I'm going to treat him much better than the rest of you. Now all of you be sure to make friends with him!"

//all minorities are entitled to is equal opportunity. That's it.
 
2013-10-31 04:57:31 PM  

Obama's Reptiloid Master: sprawl15: Serious Black: cis

hurk

It's so disgusting when people use academic terms that denote meaningful categories. Vocabularies should stay small and I shouldn't have to learn anything new because I'm more important than other people.


it is pretty fascinating that a response to a certain mindset can instantly summon the exact mindset that causes the response in the first place

i wonder if we can use that technology on the LHC
 
2013-10-31 04:59:11 PM  

Serious Black: sprawl15: Serious Black: cis

hurk

Come again?

qorkfiend: Serious Black: The manual is absolutely right. Straight, white, cis, Christian males have never faced any kind of systemic discrimination like non-straight people have, non-white people have, non-cis people have, non-Christians have, or non-males have. If you think that's controversial, you're a farking moron who has never read a history book.

Well...there was a time when being a Christian could get you into some trouble. Of course, it was the straight white males of [dominant religion] who were doing the persecuting.

Good point, though I think it holds true if you focus exclusively on America. Has there ever been a period in American history when Christianity was not the dominant religion?


Not according to Mormons, no.
 
2013-10-31 04:59:36 PM  

RedPhoenix122: sobriquet by any other name: Just the minute christians stop trying to make gays subhuman using terror and bullying and psychological warfare in schools, churches, and the state we'll take you off the list

/oh, and that whole confederate flag thing, see what you can do about that

Funny thing, it's not even the Confederate flag.  It's the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia.  That screams treason to me.


It's technically the naval ensign.
 
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