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(WOKV Jacksonville)   Where should we let felons do job rehabilitation? Florida: Our schools - where else?   (wokv.com) divider line 50
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1725 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2013 at 11:17 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-30 11:20:51 PM
Less guns; more felons.
 
2013-10-30 11:21:10 PM
If they've served their time they deserve a second chance.
 
2013-10-30 11:21:22 PM
Not all felons are violent kiddie diddling drug peddlers...

/TMYK
 
2013-10-30 11:24:10 PM
www.blogcdn.com
 
2013-10-30 11:25:39 PM
Meh, 10 year or older conviction, requiring a clean record since, what is the big deal? if you don't want them to reoffend you have to allow them to work or give them a free ride on the taxpayers dime, choose wisely....


/sorry I'm hammered, run my post through a drunk filter, it will make more sense...
 
2013-10-30 11:27:32 PM

Pribar: if you don't want them to reoffend


You think that's the goal of the corrections system or the prison lobby?
 
2013-10-30 11:28:34 PM
"Who uses a measuring rod to say whether someone delivered in 10 years or 12 years or 20 years? We don't know that. So because we don't know that, why jeopardize the children who are innocent?" questioned Chatman.

What the holy fark does that even mean?

/purple monkey dishwasher
//mambo dog-face to the banana patch
 
2013-10-30 11:30:00 PM
Why not? They're already used to being penned in and surrounded by gunmen.
 
2013-10-30 11:31:04 PM
I'm mostly ok with this.

/needs a list of disqualifying felonies as a safeguard against judgement-impaired hiring managers
 
2013-10-30 11:31:12 PM
Chained behind the steam cart in the cafeteria? A "scared straight" program for every student every day.
 
2013-10-30 11:33:05 PM
Depends what the felony is for, and either these ex-con need to be reintegrated into society, or we decide they will never be punished enough and just ruin their lives for good. I'd rather have a rehabbed person paying taxes by working than to have them in jail using up our tax money.
 
2013-10-30 11:33:25 PM
So what rights will we give up when this fails?
 
2013-10-30 11:33:26 PM
Scared Straight A's

/that's all I have to say about that
 
2013-10-30 11:34:49 PM

skinink: Depends what the felony is for, and either these ex-con need to be reintegrated into society, or we decide they will never be punished enough and just ruin their lives for good. I'd rather have a rehabbed person paying taxes by working than to have them in jail using up our tax money.


So schools are the obvious choice. For the children I guess?
 
2013-10-30 11:50:57 PM
Rehabilitated? I had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage.
 
2013-10-30 11:58:53 PM
Scared stupid!
 
2013-10-30 11:59:31 PM
As long as they weren't in for child molestation I have no problem with this.
 
2013-10-31 12:02:42 AM

StoPPeRmobile: So schools are the obvious choice. For the children I guess?


Again, depends on the individual. MANY of the current crop of "felons" are folks that would benefit from being put in a big brother role, where they can see their impact on the lives of others.
 
2013-10-31 12:06:18 AM
Yeah, I'm not seeing the big deal unless they're sex offenders.
 
2013-10-31 12:06:45 AM
Agree with everyone else that depending on the charge it's not that big of a deal. Plus I DNRTFA but some places get nice tax incentives for hiring felons also.
 
2013-10-31 12:09:00 AM
As mentioned, it depends on what the felony was for.
Importing more than two packs of cigarettes into Maryland is a felony, for example. I'd have no problem with someone convicted of bringing in an entire carton of smokes into the state to work in a school.
 
2013-10-31 12:11:43 AM

anotar: As mentioned, it depends on what the felony was for.
Importing more than two packs of cigarettes into Maryland is a felony, for example. I'd have no problem with someone convicted of bringing in an entire carton of smokes into the state to work in a school.


Yeah, but they have to bring smokes for everyone. It's only fair.
 
2013-10-31 12:26:06 AM

fusillade762: As long as they weren't in for child molestation I have no problem with this.


They can put these offenders into the Catholic school system.

*Sad trombone*
 
2013-10-31 12:38:15 AM
I thought they all worked for Ikea
 
2013-10-31 12:47:42 AM
Why should we even think about making it easier for felons to get jobs, much less in our schools?

Ideally, they shouldn't have jobs, PERIOD. But at the very least, we should only let them work all the shiatty, low-paying jobs that force them to choose between food or shelter (food OR shelter, not "and"). That is, only if there's nobody, with a perfectly clean record, available to take those jobs. Other than that, this is the future all felons should ever have.

And don't give me that crap about "waaah! They'll reoffend/go hungry if they don't have jobs and income!" I don't want them to reoffend either, but I'd feel pretty bad about myself if I gave any one of those shiats the means to buy food and clothes.

I don't understand why felons can't just stop breaking the farking law, take responsibility for what they've done and just stay homeless and starve to death for our personal enjoyment.
 
2013-10-31 12:55:29 AM

Clemkadidlefark: I thought they all worked for Ikea


I am not ashamed to admit that I don't get this post. Does IKEA hire felons? Did I miss a meme?
 
2013-10-31 01:08:37 AM
We should pass a law where anyone who has spent a single night in jail should be barred from all future employment. I'm certain that will reduce the crime rate.

Joking aside, the only difference between a school board member and a felon is that the felon has been caught once.
 
2013-10-31 01:24:33 AM

GodComplex: We should pass a law where anyone who has spent a single night in jail should be barred from all future employment. I'm certain that will reduce the crime rate.

Joking aside, the only difference between a school board member and a felon is that the felon has been caught once.


Believe me, I WISH that were a reality.....

"Sir, can you spare some food? I don't have money to buy food."

"Sure! You'll find it by jumping off the roof of that tall building over there!"
 
2013-10-31 01:32:37 AM
Just ship them all off to uninhabited islands that have fresh water, edible veggies and animals that they will probably enjoy slaughtering and eating and let them figure it all out. Let them create a colony and...survive. Oh yeah....and give them as many sharp objects as they want...because those pedophiles can't kill themselves fast enough. Should be a fascinating social experiment, and one I would be willing to observe. There would be no women on the men's island and no men on the women's island.
 
2013-10-31 01:58:42 AM

theBigBigEye: Ideally, they shouldn't have jobs, PERIOD.


I say this having spent two semesters studying probation/parole...

You're an idiot.

People who go on probation have something around an 80% reduced recidivism rate (my number may be out of date, but I bet it hasn't changed that much).

All that is accomplished by restricting non-violent first offenders to living in poverty with absolutely no job prospects is MORE POVERTY. We're already well on our way to establishing a huge sub-class of people in this kind of situation, but denying them jobs outright (which social norms already lean heavily toward) means more people on welfare, then homeless, on the street, and turning to crime. The majority of people who get nailed for a first offense got there through desperation or negligence.

As much as I dislike being around other people myself, I am not ready to just write them off and sentence people to the gutter, especially if they DID serve their time. Schools probably aren't the best choice to get them back up to speed, but denying them any chance of climbing back out of that hole is stupid and cruel.
 
2013-10-31 02:01:54 AM

theBigBigEye: GodComplex: We should pass a law where anyone who has spent a single night in jail should be barred from all future employment. I'm certain that will reduce the crime rate.

Joking aside, the only difference between a school board member and a felon is that the felon has been caught once.

Believe me, I WISH that were a reality.....

"Sir, can you spare some food? I don't have money to buy food."

"Sure! You'll find it by jumping off the roof of that tall building over there!"


Exactly! People can't change, so we should just abandon this whole 'rehabilitation' concept and just start sentencing everyone who is convicted  of a crime to death. Then we should sentence their family to death as well, ya know, guilt by association. Then the state can seize their assets and soon we'll have eliminated both crime AND debt. For the children.
 
2013-10-31 02:05:03 AM

theBigBigEye: I don't understand why felons can't just stop breaking the farking law, take responsibility for what they've done and just stay homeless and starve to death for our personal enjoyment.


This. The idea that people deserve to eat after being in prison offends me. We already kept you alive for your entire sentence -- that was just to be sure you suffered the entire punishment. Now that you're free it's your duty as a citizen to die quietly and on your own dime.
 
2013-10-31 03:43:24 AM

Pribar: Meh, 10 year or older conviction, requiring a clean record since, what is the big deal? if you don't want them to reoffend you have to allow them to work or give them a free ride on the taxpayers dime, choose wisely....

/sorry I'm hammered, run my post through a drunk filter, it will make more sense...



It reads just fine to me.  And yeah, if you don't want them to reoffend you have to allow them to make something of their life once they're out.  10 years is enough time for somebody to subtantially change.

ladyfortuna: People who go on probation have something around an 80% reduced recidivism rate (my number may be out of date, but I bet it hasn't changed that much).


Do you mean 'get work while on probation' rather than just being on probation?

Personally, I'm of the opinion that prisons/jails should be teaching convicts how to be law abiding citizens, not 'animals', with the only 'warehouse' prisons being for those sentenced to life without parole, IE lifers should only interact with other lifers.  Part of that training is to continue the support as they transition back into non-prison life, much like how the military has special programs when members get back from deployments.
 
2013-10-31 03:49:35 AM

ladyfortuna: theBigBigEye: Ideally, they shouldn't have jobs, PERIOD.

I say this having spent two semesters studying probation/parole...

You're an idiot.

People who go on probation have something around an 80% reduced recidivism rate (my number may be out of date, but I bet it hasn't changed that much).

All that is accomplished by restricting non-violent first offenders to living in poverty with absolutely no job prospects is MORE POVERTY. We're already well on our way to establishing a huge sub-class of people in this kind of situation, but denying them jobs outright (which social norms already lean heavily toward) means more people on welfare, then homeless, on the street, and turning to crime. The majority of people who get nailed for a first offense got there through desperation or negligence.

As much as I dislike being around other people myself, I am not ready to just write them off and sentence people to the gutter, especially if they DID serve their time. Schools probably aren't the best choice to get them back up to speed, but denying them any chance of climbing back out of that hole is stupid and cruel.


Pretty sure he was being sarcastic judging from the last line of his post.  But who knows, Poe's Law and all...
 
2013-10-31 04:21:25 AM

DigitalCoffee: "Who uses a measuring rod to say whether someone delivered in 10 years or 12 years or 20 years? We don't know that. So because we don't know that, why jeopardize the children who are innocent?" questioned Chatman.

What the holy fark does that even mean?

/purple monkey dishwasher
//mambo dog-face to the banana patch



Hello, Cartman?


img.fark.net
 
2013-10-31 04:24:07 AM

Mr. Eugenides: If they've served their time they deserve a second chance.


Done in two. I know many , many felons. They have served their time. What, you dont want them to have a job ? Then WTF do you expect them to do ? I know this is fark, but really. People make mistakes. Some learn from them.
 
2013-10-31 04:25:30 AM

fusillade762: As long as they weren't in for child molestation I have no problem with this.


Know two of them. They... they learned their lesson. Model folks , now. I am not joking. One is family.
 
2013-10-31 04:28:24 AM
I would add i was raped by 3 teens when I was 5, so dont give me shiate about being a bleeding heart pro child molester type. One learns a lot 40 years on this rock ex post facto .
 
2013-10-31 05:31:02 AM

StoPPeRmobile: skinink: Depends what the felony is for, and either these ex-con need to be reintegrated into society, or we decide they will never be punished enough and just ruin their lives for good. I'd rather have a rehabbed person paying taxes by working than to have them in jail using up our tax money.

So schools are the obvious choice. For the children I guess?



For the _______.  Fill in whatever group is relevant to whatever job you're talking about, until there are no jobs left.  Then watch as felons commit felonies to survive, and smugly say "Told ya so."
 
2013-10-31 07:02:49 AM

alienated: What, you dont want them to have a job ?



I don't want them to have a job at a school.
 
2013-10-31 07:31:25 AM

liam76: alienated: What, you dont want them to have a job ?


I don't want them to have a job at a school.


Why not, for God's sake?
 
2013-10-31 08:46:49 AM
As a current Florida resident, I'm starting to think I might be better off moving back to where I came from....Detroit.
 
2013-10-31 10:20:13 AM

KeatingFive: liam76: alienated: What, you dont want them to have a job ?


I don't want them to have a job at a school.

Why not, for God's sake?


Children are the most vulnerable segment of society, school have an expectation of being protective where they and parents should be able to let down their guard.

It is one of the very few areas I don't think excons should be working.

What percent of the county employees do you think work at the school? We are talking abotu a small percent of jobs.
 
2013-10-31 10:50:44 AM

liam76: Children are the most vulnerable segment of society, school have an expectation of being protective where they and parents should be able to let down their guard.


Why?
 
2013-10-31 11:18:50 AM

CourtroomWolf: StoPPeRmobile: skinink: Depends what the felony is for, and either these ex-con need to be reintegrated into society, or we decide they will never be punished enough and just ruin their lives for good. I'd rather have a rehabbed person paying taxes by working than to have them in jail using up our tax money.

So schools are the obvious choice. For the children I guess?


For the _______.  Fill in whatever group is relevant to whatever job you're talking about, until there are no jobs left.  Then watch as felons commit felonies to survive, and smugly say "Told ya so."


Good. At least it forces them to keep up the negative image we expect them to have.
 
2013-10-31 11:39:48 AM
Hey, former politicians need jobs, too.
 
2013-10-31 12:44:11 PM

Millennium: liam76: Children are the most vulnerable segment of society, school have an expectation of being protective where they and parents should be able to let down their guard.

Why?


You are asking why we should take steps to make schools safer that add absolutely no cost to the schools or get in the way of children learning and playing?

Seriously?
 
2013-11-01 03:16:34 AM
 

liam76: You are asking why we should take steps to make schools safer that add absolutely no cost to the schools or get in the way of children learning and playing?

Seriously?



You do realize that not all excons committed a crime of violence(matter of fact the proportion of violent offenders is dropping due to social factors and various legislatures making more and more offenses felonies), targeted children, etc...?

Also, there's NOT "absolutely no cost".  If you accept ex-felons you are probably going to reduce costs in recruitment, background checks, and costs for a fill-in while you seek to replace whatever worker you have to.

As for the 'safer', given their requirements I'd say that there's probably no safety difference between a qualified excon and a random person that <i>happens</i> to not have a record.  At some point without further offenses an excon is no more likely to commit a crime than the rest of the population at large.

For example, there's always the chance you'll end up hiring somebody like Jerry Sandusky, who managed to avoid arrest for almost 17 years.  A guy busted for stealing a car 2 decades ago that hasn't been busted since he left prison over a decade ago doesn't seem the same risk, you know?  At least the car thief has been under additional scrutiny.
 
2013-11-01 04:12:11 AM

Firethorn: Do you mean 'get work while on probation' rather than just being on probation?


Erm... not picking on you, but do you know what recidivism means? The definition, at least, has nothing to do with whether they have jobs.
 
2013-11-01 05:01:34 AM

ladyfortuna: Firethorn: Do you mean 'get work while on probation' rather than just being on probation?

Erm... not picking on you, but do you know what recidivism means? The definition, at least, has nothing to do with whether they have jobs.



recidivism basically means they're caught(or convicted of) committing a crime after being released for a previous crime.

Basically I was enquiring more specifics on what aspects of recidivism you were talking about, because I've seen studies on it on the basis of original crime, time in prison, facility held at, after-incarceration programs, etc...

Basically the more support somebody has when they get out the better off they are - 'probation' can be rather vague for the conditions and support present after release.  Not to mention that probation is something that is generally earned rather than just given - so if you figure that prison officials are at least vaguely capable of determining which prisoners are most likely to offend again and deny them parole/probation in favor of not releasing them until their complete sentence is served, of course those released on probation are going to have lower re-offense rates.
 
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