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(CNN)   Marine gets Intel that dangerous man is back in Afghanistan. Marine forwards this information as fast as he can to the people at the front. Does he D) get investigated and possibly dismissed from the service?   (cnn.com) divider line 68
    More: Asinine, Jason Brezler, Afghanistan, Intel, public inquiry, lieutenant colonels, security protocol, New York accent, Afghanistan's Helmand  
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9467 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2013 at 1:32 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-30 01:19:39 PM
Zero Tolerance - it's not just for schools anymore.
 
2013-10-30 01:33:52 PM
He should have just gone over there himself and killed a guy with a napkin.
 
2013-10-30 01:34:43 PM
Marines know how to use email?

/I keed
 
2013-10-30 01:35:22 PM
#Winning the War on Error
 
2013-10-30 01:36:15 PM
Was the "dangerous man" one of ours?
 
2013-10-30 01:37:32 PM

Diogenes: Zero Tolerance - it's not just for schools anymore.


ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE.

But in this case, I can't find a compelling reason for him to have sent the classified information *IN AN UNSECURED E-MAIL*.  That's just plain stupid.

He could have immediately said "This guy is bad, keep an eye on him", and then sent the classified information separately via secure channels at the earliest opportunity.

This is the sort of thing that causes a *MAJOR* farking problem.  The history of SIGINT is full of cases where a little slip-up has resulted in a massive or a break into a crypto-system because you've got a known plaintext.

Also, it can reveal sources and methods, which can have similarly devastating results.
 
2013-10-30 01:37:36 PM
It sounds like classified information was sent to him over an insecure line in the first place.  Not that that will help his case.
 
2013-10-30 01:37:38 PM
Seriously, though. There is a reason why a chain of commands exists and security clearances exist.

If he thinks divulging classified information to some bunch of jarhead neanderthals on the front line without regard to their security clearances is a good thing, then he really needs to get some remedial training in why there are security protocols at all.

I'm sure he will figure it out once the investigators chew him up and spit him out.
 
2013-10-30 01:37:52 PM
i dont care. but i DO care that people keep using this ANNOYING headline meme
 
2013-10-30 01:38:46 PM
He tried to point out that Bin Laden is still alive?
Of course he'll get court marshaled.

At least that won't be like the special team 6 that killed BL then all of them die when the helicopter they were in was 'shot down'.

Yeah, and the body was dragged halfway across the ocean then only to be thrown overboard.

That makes sense.


/to Derp where no man has Derped before
 
2013-10-30 01:39:25 PM
The larger question is why we overclassify so many things.  I cannot believe  that it is a matter of national security as to whether or not Jan was fired and if he is into buggery.
 
2013-10-30 01:40:15 PM

StopLurkListen: #Winning the War on Error


Be warned- random is resistance.
 
2013-10-30 01:42:00 PM
Shoot.
Shovel.
Shut the fark up.
 
2013-10-30 01:43:27 PM
You missed the "it was ignored simply because of his mistake and the perp's boy-toy executed three marines in the workout room" part of the article, subby.
 
2013-10-30 01:43:47 PM
Can't we just take this Jan guy out back and you know...

Oh, and

R.I.P. Jan Michael Vincent

www.starstills.com
 
2013-10-30 01:45:10 PM
I have no problem with this.

He made a mistake, admitted to it, and he's now going through the process of evaluation.  It's not like they're throwing him in jail without trial or guaranteeing he's going to be canned.
 
2013-10-30 01:45:32 PM

BSABSVR: The larger question is why we overclassify so many things.  I cannot believe  that it is a matter of national security as to whether or not Jan was fired and if he is into buggery.


The idea is that if only "so and so" should have known these facts, and Jan finds out that everyone now knows these facts, Jan can assume he has a snitch in his presence.
 
2013-10-30 01:46:29 PM
So is CNN just re-branding themselves as another Fox, or are they shooting for something a little derpier?
 
2013-10-30 01:49:59 PM

karmaceutical: So is CNN just re-branding themselves as another Fox


To the everlasting list of:

Coke ~ Pepsi
.45ACP ~ 9mm
Mac ~ PC
Ford ~ Chevy

You can add:

CNN ~ Fox
 
2013-10-30 01:51:34 PM

MindStalker: BSABSVR: The larger question is why we overclassify so many things.  I cannot believe  that it is a matter of national security as to whether or not Jan was fired and if he is into buggery.

The idea is that if only "so and so" should have known these facts, and Jan finds out that everyone now knows these facts, Jan can assume he has a snitch in his presence.


Not only this, but Jan also now knows that we know where he is and that he will take appropriate actions to protect himself.
 
2013-10-30 01:51:34 PM
At least he is still free.
A non-morse interceptor told me that they could be court-martial for leaving papers out on their desk even if the door is locked.
 
2013-10-30 01:53:09 PM
So after reading the article, it seems that the bad guy is one of ours. How else would he get away with all he has done and still live... free?

F the CIA, throwing away marine lives for their b.s. mind games.
 
2013-10-30 01:53:30 PM

Resident Muslim: He tried to point out that Bin Laden is still alive?
Of course he'll get court marshaled.

At least that won't be like the special team 6 that killed BL then all of them die when the helicopter they were in was 'shot down'.

Yeah, and the body was dragged halfway across the ocean then only to be thrown overboard.

That makes sense.


/to Derp where no man has Derped before


Good luck with that. Verily I derp unto thee - there is no new derp under the sun. This has all been derped before.
Like sand in an hourglass is the derp of our lives.
 
2013-10-30 01:56:56 PM
In the aftermath of the shooting, Jan was detained by Afghan security forces, according to an August 2012 report in The Washington Post.

Afghan officials both in the Helmand provincial government and in the Interior Ministry of the national government in Kabul told CNN they had no information about Jan's current whereabouts.

Despite repeated efforts by CNN's bureau in Kabul, Jan could not be found to comment for this report.


Sounds like Jan might be having a rotten time in a cell somewhere in Hemland.
 
2013-10-30 01:58:08 PM
Why didn't the guys in Afghanistan just send the e-mail directly to someone at FOB Delhi instead?
 
2013-10-30 02:07:03 PM
Why do journalists always put the crap about what lawyers say at the front? How about start with the events in question, the motivation of the accused and then the statements made by lawyers. That way we can form an opinion before we get at the lawyer speak.

/Because it is easier to manipulate a story that way
//Skimmed the first two out of 5 pages on the mobile looking for details
/Then lost interest
 
2013-10-30 02:10:48 PM
A little history:

As Marines Exit Afghan Province, a Feeling That a Campaign Was Worth It

"You will never get people to take a risk on behalf of a government that is hurting them," said Sarah Chayes, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, who has worked in Afghanistan for most of the past decade, including as a senior adviser to the United States military.

The province is Helmand where the events in the Fark article is set.

In February 2013, BBC reported that corruption occurs in Afghan National Police bases, with some bases arming children, using them as servants and sexually abusing them;[10] in early March 2013, the New York Times reported that government corruption is rampant with routine accusations against the police of shaking down and sexually abusing civilians causing loyalty to the government to be weaker.
 
2013-10-30 02:12:06 PM

Diogenes: Zero Tolerance - it's not just for schools anymore.


It's not that simple. The military makes it REALLY difficult to accidentally send secure information on an insecure channel. Any documents that he had would be on a separate computer that was airgapped from unclassified use computers. You'd have to do something sh*thole stupid like print it and rescan to make a scenario like this happen - even the USB ports on a secure computer are locked down in general.

This is the military equivalent of pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger when you "think" it's unloaded. It's not a slap on the wrist type thing.
 
2013-10-30 02:12:53 PM
i215.photobucket.com

R.I.P. Jan Hammer
 
2013-10-30 02:18:10 PM
You want an idea of how farked up those people are? Google "Pashtun sexuality". There's an unclass humint report done a few years back that is pretty revealing.

Actually, here it is:
http://info.publicintelligence.net/HTT-PashtunSexuality.pdf


The actions of the afghans or the marines in this case are not surprising.

/been to Helmand a few times
//fark that place.
 
2013-10-30 02:25:34 PM

dittybopper: Diogenes: Zero Tolerance - it's not just for schools anymore.

ZERO TOLERANCE = ZERO INTELLIGENCE.

But in this case, I can't find a compelling reason for him to have sent the classified information *IN AN UNSECURED E-MAIL*.  That's just plain stupid.

He could have immediately said "This guy is bad, keep an eye on him", and then sent the classified information separately via secure channels at the earliest opportunity.


Yeah that.  I get the dude tried to do a good thing, but "Hey, that guy is an asshole, I'll have command send you a more detailed brief" and then done it would have been just as good.

One of the things people dealing with classified information don't get to do is decide the protocols for handling it, or whether or not it really should be classified.  It is, or it isn't, and if it is, it gets treated appropriately.

If you fail to do that, you farked up.

/ Former military DSO
 
2013-10-30 02:33:39 PM

oakleym82: Why didn't the guys in Afghanistan just send the e-mail directly to someone at FOB Delhi instead?


I saw it on the news last night and couldnt figure out why either. You think they could have gone the casino route and filled a hole in the desert.
 
2013-10-30 02:34:09 PM
Late summer-autumn 1968: Kurtz's patrols in the highlands coming under frequent ambush. The camp started falling apart. November: Kurtz orders the assassination of three Vietnamese men and one woman. Two of the men were Colonels in the South Vietnamese army. Enemy activity in his old sector dropped off to nothing. Guess he must have hit the right four people.
www.billdoskoch.ca
 
2013-10-30 02:36:26 PM
I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.
 
2013-10-30 02:37:08 PM

2xcited: He should have just gone over there himself and killed a guy with a napkin teacup.


It's an animal thing.
 
2013-10-30 02:41:42 PM

minoridiot: At least he is still free.
A non-morse interceptor told me that they could be court-martial for leaving papers out on their desk even if the door is locked.


Yep.  Even Classified stuff can get you into a shipload of trouble.  Imagine Secret and Top Secret. :P
 
2013-10-30 02:44:07 PM
An "Ask forgiveness later" situation.

I suspect the Board of Inquiry realizes this.

But, rules are rules.  The Major is going to get some form of consequences.
 
2013-10-30 02:44:10 PM

bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.


Usually, classified info has "CLASSIFIED" stamped all over it.  Or "SECRET" if secret, or even "UNCLASS" if it's not classified at all (but still potentially sensitive).  If he was sent classified info that wasn't labeled as such, the sender is also probably in some hot water.
 
2013-10-30 02:45:45 PM

bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.


Hey now!!! Don't let facts and rational discourse ruin a good derp-rage!!!
 
2013-10-30 02:53:19 PM

bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.


I'm calling bullshiat.

Everything I've even seen that is classfied, even the lowest form of classification, "CONFIDENTIAL", was clearly marked as such.  And I've seen a metric fark-ton of classified information, having had a Top Secret/SCI clearance, and having worked in SCIFs for over 3 years.

That story about him not knowing it was classified comes straight from his defense attorney:

"For a man like Jason Brezler, being asked to separate from the Marine Corps that he loved so much would be an even worse punishment than jail," said Kevin Carroll, Brezler's attorney, a former CIA officer who is providing Brezler pro bono representation along with his law firm Quinn, Emanuel, Urquhart & Sullivan.
...
Carroll said "within minutes" Brezler wrote his colleagues back at Forward Operating Base Delhi in Afghanistan, with a warning about Jan. He attached to the e-mail a classified document that included allegations about Jan, claiming he had ties to the Taliban.
"Jason immediately responded with everything he knew, including some extraordinarily derogatory information he knew about this man indicating that he was a threat not only to local children but to Marines," Carroll said. "When the Marines in Afghanistan wrote back saying that some of that information might have been classified, (Brezler) immediately turned himself in."


It's not like the guy's defense attorney has a reason to lie, or that Brezler doesn't possibly have a reason to bullshiat him.
 
2013-10-30 02:54:24 PM

xanadian: bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.

Usually, classified info has "CLASSIFIED" stamped all over it.  Or "SECRET" if secret, or even "UNCLASS" if it's not classified at all (but still potentially sensitive).  If he was sent classified info that wasn't labeled as such, the sender is also probably in some hot water.


If it is classified, it must be marked as so, or whoever originated the document is just as farked.
 
2013-10-30 02:55:16 PM

kendelrio: bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.

Hey now!!! Don't let facts and rational discourse his defense attorney's version of events ruin a good derp-rage!!!


FTFY.  I actually *DID* read the farkin' article.
 
2013-10-30 03:01:40 PM

JohnCarter: Jan Michael Vincent


lh6.ggpht.com
 
2013-10-30 03:09:01 PM

bigheadface: I read the article. Seems like many commenters here didn't.  He didn't realize he was sending classified. Someone from the FOB told him that it might be after he had already sent it, and he immediately reported that.
He didn't purposely transmit classified over an unsecured network.


The article is obviously missing some key details but where did the "classified document" come from?  It's damn near impossible to "accidentally" move a classified document from a secure network to an unclassified one.  Given the time frame and how quickly he responded to the original email, that would mean he was already keeping a classified document in his possession which is a crime in of itself.  The question I want to know is where did this document come from and how did it wind up on an unclassified network?
 
2013-10-30 03:15:52 PM
Damn you FARKERS!

FTFA: "The subject line of the e-mail he received said in all capital letters with three exclamation marks 'IMPORTANT: SARWAR JAN IS BACK,'" said Carroll.

Carroll said "within minutes" Brezler wrote his colleagues back at Forward Operating Base Delhi in Afghanistan, with a warning about Jan. He attached to the e-mail a classified document that included allegations about Jan, claiming he had ties to the Taliban.

"Jason immediately responded with everything he knew, including some extraordinarily derogatory information he knew about this man indicating that he was a threat not only to local children but to Marines," Carroll said. "When the Marines in Afghanistan wrote back saying that some of that information might have been classified, (Brezler) immediately turned himself in."

He was using Yahoo email.
 
2013-10-30 03:45:40 PM

BSABSVR: The larger question is why we overclassify so many things.  I cannot believe  that it is a matter of national security as to whether or not Jan was fired and if he is into buggery.


No, according to the article, telling them that wasn't the issue. The problem was that when forwarding that information, he also sent classified documents regarding Jan's potential connections to the Taliban.
 
2013-10-30 03:53:59 PM
The military does gety a little bit biatchy when you send classifed info over the NIPR.

That's day 1 shiat right there.
 
2013-10-30 04:08:45 PM

Lady J: i dont care. but i DO care that people keep using this ANNOYING headline meme


"STOP WRITING HEADLINES I DON'T LIKE AND MAKING ME READ THEM AND THEN COMMENT ON THEM"
 
2013-10-30 04:33:37 PM
it's an odd situation for intel to be send regular email
but hey, it's not like the powers that be give a shiat about americans in uniform
cannon fodder, easily forgotten
 
2013-10-30 04:59:24 PM
I wonder how many people think that his punishment is already decided?  This is the pandering phase of utilizing public opinion in hopes that it sways the final decision into favorable territory.  He can be discharged honorably or dishonorably.  Pieces like this are written to get the public opinion behind the first one, regardless of how the decision was originally going to pan out.

For all we know they could've been leaning towards Honorable this entire time, caught in a 'our hands are tied' type moment.

But now it's the evil individuals looking to persecute a poor victim.
 
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