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(Reason Magazine)   A nice summary of the failure of US foreign policy from Bush, "with us or against us", to Obama, "interventionist and aimless"   (reason.com) divider line 31
    More: Interesting, President Obama, George W. Bush, humans, foreign policy, international diplomacy, Secretary of State John Kerry, Wahhabism, regional power  
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655 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Oct 2013 at 11:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-30 11:41:26 AM  
I'd say his aim is pretty good.  It's hard to miss with those drones.
 
2013-10-30 11:42:02 AM  
"interventionist and aimless" applies to every president since FDR.
 
2013-10-30 11:44:28 AM  
Treason.com?
/amiright?
 
2013-10-30 11:44:39 AM  
Five years ago, George W. Bush exited the world stage, leaving the United States in an inarguably weaker diplomatic position than it had been eight years earlier. Bush had started one war in Afghanistan that enjoyed broad support from the international community, and failed to end it when the mission was accomplished
 

So Bush won the Afghan war?

/stopped reading there
 
2013-10-30 11:46:58 AM  
Obama has more than his fare share of short comings, but I can't say foreign policy is one of them. Besides drone strike, I can't say he got anything else wrong.
 
2013-10-30 11:55:40 AM  
You can only call the Obama administration "aimless" if you've kept yourself deliberately ignorant of US foreign policy for the last 5 years.
 
2013-10-30 11:55:49 AM  
Yeah, remember when we invaded Syria on a pretext? That was...wait, what? You say they've already dismantled 90% of their chemical weapons capacity without an attack from the US? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty aimless, wouldn't you?
 
2013-10-30 11:59:05 AM  
imageshack.us
Yeah, Obama has been SUCH a failure on foreign policy.
 
2013-10-30 12:00:56 PM  
Has Reason scrubbed its articles where they were pointing out Bush's foreign policy genius?

/since their own internal link http://reason.com/hod/iraqthreeyears.shtml gets a 404 error... yes they have.
 
2013-10-30 12:07:52 PM  
BSAB!
 
2013-10-30 12:17:07 PM  
I see "a nice summary" has become the Fark Politics Tab version of "this one weird trick"
 
2013-10-30 12:23:55 PM  
cloudfront-assets.reason.com

"Obama's foreign policy is interventionist and isolationist, just like every date I've ever had".
 
2013-10-30 12:26:23 PM  
Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.
 
2013-10-30 12:28:40 PM  

qorkfiend: You can only call the Obama administration "aimless" if you've kept yourself deliberately ignorant of US foreign policy for the last 5 years.


In their defense, there are many people who did just that. They revel in their dedicated, deliberate ignorance of not only US foreign policy, but domestic policy, the behavior of their elected representatives, and even objective reality in general.

/No, wait, not "defense"... what's that other word?
 
2013-10-30 12:34:15 PM  

Heraclitus: Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.


Right wingers don't understand a world that isn't only dived between "People we all want killed" and "People who are subservient to us and will do everything we say".

Why? Because they are evil. That's how evil people think.
 
2013-10-30 12:36:07 PM  
Thankfully the Reason tag intervened and isolated me from clicking on the link
 
2013-10-30 12:57:21 PM  

Heraclitus: Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.


Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush. Not that we should have been there in the first place.

Libya isn't a war now?

No Major Terrorist attacks?
i2.cdn.turner.com

Passing the buck is grown up?

Geez Bush was a disaster, but Obama is no better.
 
2013-10-30 12:59:14 PM  

EWreckedSean: Heraclitus: Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.

Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush. Not that we should have been there in the first place.

Libya isn't a war now?

No Major Terrorist attacks?
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 459x254]

Passing the buck is grown up?

Geez Bush was a disaster, but Obama is no better.


Oh I see the "We are fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here" only is valid when a Republican is in office?

So you blame ALL terrorism in the world on Obama? Got it!
 
2013-10-30 01:01:08 PM  

EWreckedSean: Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush.


Right the one Bush said we couldn't ever set a deadline and Obama said we should then LATER Bush set a deadline after everyone in the world agreed with Obama.

Obama was for a deadline first Bush was very against it. Don't pretend it was Bush's idea, it wasn't.
 
2013-10-30 01:01:17 PM  
How does aimless equal going right down PNAC's checklist?
 
2013-10-30 01:10:42 PM  
When they start breaking out nested negative adjectives you can just stop reading right there.
 
2013-10-30 01:13:58 PM  

Markus5: Treason.com?
/amiright?


More than you know.

Gulags for all libertarians.
 
2013-10-30 01:24:21 PM  

mayIFark: Obama has more than his fare share of short comings, but I can't say foreign policy is one of them. Besides drone strike, I can't say he got anything else wrong.


You, sir or madam, forget Benghazi, where the great human experiment with democracy, yea, with all morality and decency itself, came to a sad, sad end.
 
2013-10-30 02:20:40 PM  

King Something: [imageshack.us image 658x658]
Yeah, Obama has been SUCH a failure on foreign policy.



Right, because (military intelligence == foreign policy).
 
2013-10-30 02:37:12 PM  

whither_apophis: Has Reason scrubbed its articles where they were pointing out Bush's foreign policy genius?

/since their own internal link http://reason.com/hod/iraqthreeyears.shtml gets a 404 error... yes they have.


Here's the wayback machine link to it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060321033639/http://www.reason.com/hod/ ir aqthreeyears.shtml

It looks like a survey of journalists' opinions.

So...swing and a miss.
 
2013-10-30 02:40:53 PM  

Corvus: EWreckedSean: Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush.

Right the one Bush said we couldn't ever set a deadline and Obama said we should then LATER Bush set a deadline after everyone in the world agreed with Obama.

Obama was for a deadline first Bush was very against it. Don't pretend it was Bush's idea, it wasn't.


You're right. It wasn't Bush's idea. It was Nouri al-Maliki's and the Iraqi's idea (except for the Kurds). The US had no choice, unless it wanted to open up a whole new conflict.
 
2013-10-30 02:57:45 PM  

spmkk: King Something: [imageshack.us image 658x658]
Yeah, Obama has been SUCH a failure on foreign policy.


Right, because (military intelligence == foreign policy).


Actually it kind of really farking is. Both in how we get intelligence and how we use intelligence. We're not at war with Pakistan, after we found a terrorist leader hiding in one of its towns, sent in a special forces team, and killed him. In fact, we're tenuous allies. That doesn't strike you as foreign policy?
 
2013-10-30 03:36:08 PM  

Bloody William: spmkk: King Something: [imageshack.us image 658x658]
Yeah, Obama has been SUCH a failure on foreign policy.


Right, because (military intelligence == foreign policy).

Actually it kind of really farking is. Both in how we get intelligence and how we use intelligence. We're not at war with Pakistan, after we found a terrorist leader hiding in one of its towns, sent in a special forces team, and killed him. In fact, we're tenuous allies. That doesn't strike you as foreign policy?


We are at war with factions inside Pakistan.
 
2013-10-30 04:16:25 PM  

EWreckedSean: Heraclitus: Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.

Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush. Not that we should have been there in the first place.

Libya isn't a war now?

No Major Terrorist attacks?
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 459x254]

Passing the buck is grown up?

Geez Bush was a disaster, but Obama is no better.


You really want to compare how many Americans have died in terrorist attacks on Bush's watch with President Obama's record?
 
2013-10-30 06:11:06 PM  

EWreckedSean: Heraclitus: Um where is the failure?

Not starting any wars for your death merchant buddies?
Getting us out of one quagmire, and headed out of another?
No Major terrorist attacks on his watch?
Load leveling world responsibilities with the rest of the Global community?

Acting like a grown up???

I could see where that would be confusing.

Obama didn't get us out of Iraq, he simply didn't cancel the agreement that was put in place under Bush. Not that we should have been there in the first place.

Libya isn't a war now?

No Major Terrorist attacks?
[i2.cdn.turner.com image 459x254]

Passing the buck is grown up?

Geez Bush was a disaster, but Obama is no better.


Blaming Obama for every terror attack in the world is grown up?
 
2013-10-30 07:40:41 PM  

jigger: whither_apophis: Has Reason scrubbed its articles where they were pointing out Bush's foreign policy genius?

/since their own internal link http://reason.com/hod/iraqthreeyears.shtml gets a 404 error... yes they have.

Here's the wayback machine link to it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060321033639/http://www.reason.com/hod/ ir aqthreeyears.shtml

It looks like a survey of journalists' opinions.

So...swing and a miss.


It's not the crime, it's the coverup.

/After poking around Reason.com it seems a lot of their articles are "originally published by The Atlantic" etc.
//some interesting early critiques of Bush, mostly "the war was right, Bush was wrong"
 
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