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(KPHO Phoenix)   Freak Arizona dust storm kills three in I-10 pileup crash, and weather forecasters who issued dust-storm warning long after crash say there's nothing they can really do about it. Drive safe   (kpho.com) divider line 53
    More: Scary, weather forecasters, National Weather Service, Arizona Department of Transportation, KPHO, accident happened  
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2713 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Oct 2013 at 1:37 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-30 11:57:29 AM
The Teabaggers got so riled up when the media started using the obviously Arabic "haboob".
 
2013-10-30 12:23:35 PM
This wasn't even a haboob. Just standard dust. It is the desert, after all. And the Phoenix-Tucson corridor is notorious for blowing dust.
 
2013-10-30 12:51:58 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: The Teabaggers got so riled up when the media started using the obviously Arabic "haboob".


At least there are no other words in the English language that have Arabic roots.
 
2013-10-30 01:39:32 PM

PC LOAD LETTER: The Teabaggers got so riled up when the media started using the obviously Arabic "haboob".


No they didn't. But I'm sure you have a link to an unread blog to prove your point that a large majority of teabaggers did so.

Because if one did they all did.
 
2013-10-30 01:40:32 PM
Low visibility conditions are a biatch, at least for humans. Pull off to the side and you're going to get slammed into, keep going you're going to slam into someone who slowed down and either cause or be part of a chain.

I wonder how lidar and radar fair in sandy dust? Mythbusters showed that sandy dust could obscure infrared.
 
2013-10-30 01:43:04 PM
We need to shoot down this storm before it approaches the airport!.
 
2013-10-30 01:44:01 PM
The Italians know how to take care of "forecasters" who suck at their job.
 
2013-10-30 01:47:12 PM
MyRandomName:

Because if one did they all did.

Not true Scottsmen, then?

But anyways, yes, this is only news because of the "all local news is national news" bullshiat we get now. There are (painted) signs on the freeway warning about dust storms, because they can happen in any season. And it's not just the monsoon haboobs which are particularly common in the central basin, but not so much outside of that. Heck, Interstate 10 runs across a couple of dry lakebeds between Tucson and El Paso, and the dust can make such a fog that they shut it down on a yearly basis.
 
2013-10-30 01:51:22 PM
Does "dust storm" even count as weather?
 
2013-10-30 01:51:55 PM

wildcardjack: Low visibility conditions are a biatch, at least for humans. Pull off to the side and you're going to get slammed into, keep going you're going to slam into someone who slowed down and either cause or be part of a chain.

I wonder how lidar and radar fair in sandy dust? Mythbusters showed that sandy dust could obscure infrared.


Well lidar would obviously be farked.

Longer-wavelength radar would be fine.  It looks like most automotive radar systems are millimeter and sub-millimeter, which isn't good for this - since the debris is on the same order of size. Centimeter wavelengths (30 GHz) would be better, but there is a crapload of other applications (especially K-band satellite communications) in that range.
 
2013-10-30 01:52:36 PM
I drive from Phoenix to Tucson frequently and can tell you this happens quite often. It's mostly just stupid drivers because you can see it coming from quite a ways away. Problem is that most people simply don't slow down and assume it'll just blow over or won't reduce visibility much. When visibility drops to ZERO, it's kind of a sh*tty situation, to be honest, especially at interstate speeds.
 
2013-10-30 01:53:46 PM

MyRandomName: PC LOAD LETTER: The Teabaggers got so riled up when the media started using the obviously Arabic "haboob".

No they didn't. But I'm sure you have a link to an unread blog to prove your point that a large majority of teabaggers did so.

Because if one did they all did.


Habeeb did
 
2013-10-30 01:54:13 PM
Did Al Gebra claim responsibility?

/dust isn't always blowing in arizona?
 
2013-10-30 01:55:22 PM
Haboob would be a great superhero character. Kind of like Pigpen on steroids.
 
2013-10-30 01:56:37 PM
Couple of co-workers got caught in on one of those while on a motorcycle trip one time.  Pulled off the freeway at a offramp to wait it out and the storm would up doing about $10k worth of damages to their motorcycles....windshields, paint, chrome, etc were trashed in just a few minutes time.
 
2013-10-30 01:58:39 PM
I'm sure the NASCAR like drafting, driving style that is common in Arizona played no small part. I am surprised we don't hear about more large pileups, especially on I-17 north of black canyon city.
 
2013-10-30 02:01:19 PM
HA-images.sodahead.com
 
2013-10-30 02:01:20 PM
Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.
 
2013-10-30 02:01:35 PM
You live in a desert. Stop b*tching about things that happen in a desert.
 
2013-10-30 02:02:43 PM
Well they don't have much fog or snow, so it's only fair they have another dumb reason to crash into each other while outdriving their vision distance.
 
2013-10-30 02:06:44 PM

fastfxr: I drive from Phoenix to Tucson frequently and can tell you this happens quite often.


I also drive this route a lot. Whenever there's a question of the wind and dust kicking up in that stretch  between Eloy and south of the peak I opt for the 'frontage' road.  There 's a way to get through without being on the madhouse that I-10 can be. If it really hits,you can still get off the road and have little chance of being involved with another vehicle.
 
2013-10-30 02:08:03 PM
There are plenty haboobs at Hooters
 
2013-10-30 02:17:40 PM

uncleacid: There are plenty haboobs at Hooters


Wouldn't that be HaHooters?
 
2013-10-30 02:20:02 PM

The Onion is prophetic: PC LOAD LETTER: The Teabaggers got so riled up when the media started using the obviously Arabic "haboob".

At least there are no other words in the English language that have Arabic roots.


Indeed.  Now if you don't mind, I'm going to have some coffee with sugar and maybe an orange before finishing my algebra.
 
2013-10-30 02:20:05 PM
Arizona - Drive safely unless it's windy.

Seriously, Northern AZ has either fog, snow and dust and rest of AZ has dust and jerkass drivers.
 
2013-10-30 02:40:26 PM
"They're just haboobs, Ed."

media.salon.com
 
2013-10-30 02:46:50 PM

Stile4aly: At least there are no other words in the English language that have Arabic roots.


I'm sorry, the correct answer is "zero".  "Zero" words come from Arabic influences. Nothing, nada, naught, 0.
 
2013-10-30 02:48:48 PM
Growing up in Arizona, I took drivers ed there.  One thing we were taught was how to drive during a dust storm.  Slow down, pull as far to the right as possible, stop the vehicle, turn off all lights and keep your foot off the brake.

Arizona has its share of crazy drivers.  Then again so does everywhere else.  Some places such as Tennessee and Kentucky have exceptionally crazy drivers.
 
2013-10-30 02:56:54 PM

fastfxr: I drive from Phoenix to Tucson frequently and can tell you this happens quite often. It's mostly just stupid drivers because you can see it coming from quite a ways away. Problem is that most people simply don't slow down and assume it'll just blow over or won't reduce visibility much. When visibility drops to ZERO, it's kind of a sh*tty situation, to be honest, especially at interstate speeds.


A lot of drivers feel safe if they can see the car in front of them, and insecure if they can't.
They're not very smart.
This is not peculiar to AZ, it happens everywhere when visibility is low.
 
2013-10-30 03:09:27 PM

abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.


When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"
 
2013-10-30 03:20:40 PM
This was just dust.  I-5 gets the same thing on occasion, everybody crashes on both sides of the road.  I've been in one of those storms, it's like driving with your eyes closed.

A haboob is a totally different cat:

2.bp.blogspot.com

farm7.static.flickr.com
They only happen in the Monsoon season.

Visibility inside a haboob actually isn't that bad.  They're just huge and intimidating.

The dust that they had yesterday is more of a ground-blizzard effect caused by nearby tilled fields.  You can't see your hood driving in that crap.  I read an account yesterday where they said visibility was down to ten feet.  The speed limit on that section of I-10 is 75 mph.  Forget it.
 
2013-10-30 03:30:10 PM

mongbiohazard: abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.

When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"


I think the problem is that was a sudden very localized strip across the interstate.  You are driving along on a sunny afternoon and suddenly in a whiteout, trying to remember if there is anyone RIGHT behind you and if anyone is in the lane next to you and should you use the  brakes now or at least turn on the lights and too late you just plowed in the car/truck/ mess of other vehicles who were trying to work out the same math in the 2 seconds it took to go from sunny day to pile-up.

.
 
2013-10-30 03:35:11 PM

coldcuts: mongbiohazard: abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.

When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"

I think the problem is that was a sudden very localized strip across the interstate.  You are driving along on a sunny afternoon and suddenly in a whiteout, trying to remember if there is anyone RIGHT behind you and if anyone is in the lane next to you and should you use the  brakes now or at least turn on the lights and too late you just plowed in the car/truck/ mess of other vehicles who were trying to work out the same math in the 2 seconds it took to go from sunny day to pile-up.



I have a solution for that.  Don't drive along on a highway close to other vehicles.  Know who's around you all the time, and if anyone's around you, speed up or slow down.
 
2013-10-30 03:46:18 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: coldcuts: mongbiohazard: abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.

When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"

I think the problem is that was a sudden very localized strip across the interstate.  You are driving along on a sunny afternoon and suddenly in a whiteout, trying to remember if there is anyone RIGHT behind you and if anyone is in the lane next to you and should you use the  brakes now or at least turn on the lights and too late you just plowed in the car/truck/ mess of other vehicles who were trying to work out the same math in the 2 seconds it took to go from sunny day to pile-up.


I have a solution for that.  Don't drive along on a highway close to other vehicles.  Know who's around you all the time, and if anyone's around you, speed up or slow down.


Situational awareness.  Never sit in anyone's blind spot.  Never allow anyone else to sit in your blind spot.
 
2013-10-30 03:52:03 PM

FrancoFile: Inflatable Rhetoric: coldcuts: mongbiohazard: abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.

When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"

I think the problem is that was a sudden very localized strip across the interstate.  You are driving along on a sunny afternoon and suddenly in a whiteout, trying to remember if there is anyone RIGHT behind you and if anyone is in the lane next to you and should you use the  brakes now or at least turn on the lights and too late you just plowed in the car/truck/ mess of other vehicles who were trying to work out the same math in the 2 seconds it took to go from sunny day to pile-up.


I have a solution for that.  Don't drive along on a highway close to other vehicles.  Know who's around you all the time, and if anyone's around you, speed up or slow down.

Situational awareness.  Never sit in anyone's blind spot.  Never allow anyone else to sit in your blind spot.


I never liked formation flying, either.  Lucky not to fly slicks.
On a 2-lane street, my wife asks why I'm in the middle when I cross a bridge.  Habit, obstacle avoidance.
 
2013-10-30 04:08:03 PM

lordargent: Does "dust storm" even count as weather?


Well ...

arizonahighways.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-30 04:10:46 PM

FrancoFile: Inflatable Rhetoric: coldcuts: mongbiohazard: abhorrent1: Yeah, it's the weather mans fault that you can't farking drive.

When I read the headline I was thinking, "What moron needs a weather report to tell them to slow the fark down or pull the fark over if they can't see out the farking windshield?"

I think the problem is that was a sudden very localized strip across the interstate.  You are driving along on a sunny afternoon and suddenly in a whiteout, trying to remember if there is anyone RIGHT behind you and if anyone is in the lane next to you and should you use the  brakes now or at least turn on the lights and too late you just plowed in the car/truck/ mess of other vehicles who were trying to work out the same math in the 2 seconds it took to go from sunny day to pile-up.


I have a solution for that.  Don't drive along on a highway close to other vehicles.  Know who's around you all the time, and if anyone's around you, speed up or slow down.

Situational awareness.  Never sit in anyone's blind spot.  Never allow anyone else to sit in your blind spot.


Trains make me nervous, too.  I see a train going 50-60 mi/hr and the cars rocking back and forth.  When I stop 50 or 75 feet back from the crossing, drivers go around me and pull up to 4 or 5 ft from the tracks.
I don't want to be that close when the train leaves the track.
 
2013-10-30 04:33:55 PM
I once drove a rental car east up from the Rio Grande valley trying to return it to the Albuquerque airport, during one of those sandy snowstorms which can make driving both impossible and implausible.  I was trying to catch a flight but it turned out to be a matter of zero visibility, in broad daylight.  Worse than a rainstorm.

When you have no other option than to park on the shoulder of the road and pray you won't get pancaked by an 18-wheeler, or whatever.  I was trying to summon ancient Native American deities and spirits by the time it cleared up enough to pull back on the highway and move on.
 
2013-10-30 04:55:22 PM

PaLarkin: Growing up in Arizona, I took drivers ed there.  One thing we were taught was how to drive during a dust storm.  Slow down, pull as far to the right as possible, stop the vehicle, turn off all lights and keep your foot off the brake.

Arizona has its share of crazy drivers.  Then again so does everywhere else.  Some places such as Tennessee and Kentucky have exceptionally crazy drivers.


Why would you turn off the lights?  Do you need to hide?
 
2013-10-30 05:04:40 PM
Actually, it's the shiatty driving that killed 3, submitter.

It doesn't matter what weather people say, the idiots on the road are going to still drive like idiots.

Because they're idiots.
 
2013-10-30 05:29:55 PM
Inflatable Rhetoric: Why would you turn off the lights?  Do you need to hide?

I dunno if there's an actual term for this, but there's an effect in which people, when driving at high speeds, will subconsciously drift towards lights. It's a big problem for emergency personnel.
 
2013-10-30 05:31:28 PM
 
2013-10-30 05:53:28 PM

Cheeseface: Inflatable Rhetoric: Why would you turn off the lights?  Do you need to hide?

I dunno if there's an actual term for this, but there's an effect in which people, when driving at high speeds, will subconsciously drift towards lights. It's a big problem for emergency personnel.


That's strange.  First I've heard of that.
 
2013-10-30 06:12:38 PM

Inflatable Rhetoric: PaLarkin: Growing up in Arizona, I took drivers ed there.  One thing we were taught was how to drive during a dust storm.  Slow down, pull as far to the right as possible, stop the vehicle, turn off all lights and keep your foot off the brake.

Arizona has its share of crazy drivers.  Then again so does everywhere else.  Some places such as Tennessee and Kentucky have exceptionally crazy drivers.

Why would you turn off the lights?  Do you need to hide?


In the poor visibility conditions of a dust storm the lights on your car might be seen by someone behind you.  That driver might follow you.  If you have pulled off the road and stopped, that other driver may wreck or rear end you.  If you turn off the lights  and keep your foot off the brake, there are no lights for that other driver to see.
 
2013-10-30 06:26:19 PM
OK.  If you cannot see the infront of where you are headed in a car or truck, slow down, use your blinkers, and get off the damn road as far as possible.  This could be dust, smoke, fog or pelting rain.  Scientific studies have proven the fact that if you can't see where you are going, you should probably not go there at freeway speeds.  One would think that professional semi drivers would know this, but sadly, many do not.

A few years ago, near my home, a gasoline tanker truck hit a stalled bus near the down wind end of a long tunnel.  It was 1 a.m.  About 12 cars drove into that tunnel while it had smoke pouring out of the up-wind entrance.  The authorities still do not have definitive number of the people that died.  The bus was not in service at the time.
 
2013-10-30 07:11:28 PM

porkloin: OK.  If you cannot see the infront of where you are headed in a car or truck, slow down, use your blinkers, and get off the damn road as far as possible.  This could be dust, smoke, fog or pelting rain.  Scientific studies have proven the fact that if you can't see where you are going, you should probably not go there at freeway speeds.  One would think that professional semi drivers would know this, but sadly, many do not.

A few years ago, near my home, a gasoline tanker truck hit a stalled bus near the down wind end of a long tunnel.  It was 1 a.m.  About 12 cars drove into that tunnel while it had smoke pouring out of the up-wind entrance.  The authorities still do not have definitive number of the people that died.  The bus was not in service at the time.


The problem with this theory is it's hard to apply with these sandstorms. I live about 20 miles from this crash. I got caught in one a few months ago where it was so thick I couldn't see my own car hood. Where to pull off? You can't see the lines, you can't see where the road ends or doesn't, and there are pretty deep ditches by the road, or in some areas concrete barriers. It's not like fog or a haboob where you can see a couple feet. You cannot see outside your car at all. I wound up pulling off by feel (felt when my driver tires ran over the idiot rut). When the sand passed, I realized the guy behind me. He was about a foot from my back end and I had not seen him at all.
 
2013-10-30 11:24:28 PM

chevydeuce: Couple of co-workers got caught in on one of those while on a motorcycle trip one time.  Pulled off the freeway at a offramp to wait it out and the storm would up doing about $10k worth of damages to their motorcycles....windshields, paint, chrome, etc were trashed in just a few minutes time.


Beats being dead, I guess.
 
2013-10-30 11:34:40 PM

knedgecko: The problem with this theory is it's hard to apply with these sandstorms. I live about 20 miles from this crash. I got caught in one a few months ago where it was so thick I couldn't see my own car hood. Where to pull off? You can't see the lines, you can't see where the road ends or doesn't, and there are pretty deep ditches by the road, or in some areas concrete barriers. It's not like fog or a haboob where you can see a couple feet. You cannot see outside your car at all. I wound up pulling off by feel (felt when my driver tires ran over the idiot rut). When the sand passed, I realized the guy behind me. He was about a foot from my back end and I had not seen him at all.


Do they come on so fast you have no warning? that is a tough pill to swallow.
 
2013-10-31 12:09:00 AM

fastfxr: I drive from Phoenix to Tucson frequently and can tell you this happens quite often. It's mostly just stupid drivers because you can see it coming from quite a ways away. Problem is that most people simply don't slow down and assume it'll just blow over or won't reduce visibility much. When visibility drops to ZERO, it's kind of a sh*tty situation, to be honest, especially at interstate speeds.


Been through a couple of them myself.  On a windy day the dust get picked up quickly and without warning. A lot of the area used to be farm and ranches has little to no plant life to hold down the dust.
 
2013-10-31 02:52:01 AM
As a college student, I was headed home for Thanksgiving break on I-5 in central California, when dust from barren farm fields blew over the freeway.

It wasn't natural dust.  It was like someone threw dirt up in the air and it all blew horizontally.  Zero feet, zero inches visibility, as if a blanket had been placed over the windshield.  In the darkness, I could hear gravel hitting low on the sheetmetal outside.  I had no clue what to do.  Doing about 60 in the fast lane in my Mustang, I just held the wheel steady.

About five seconds later, the dust blew out.  It had felt like twice that.  Daylight returned, and I made it home without further incident.

24 hours later, on the same stretch of road, the dust returned.
 
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