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(Salon)   "We scored 74 horror films for racial and gender bias, and sexual violence. The results show the terrifying politics involved in the genre"   (salon.com) divider line 146
    More: Interesting, San Francisco Bay Guardian, horror films, Viewing, graphic novels  
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4574 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 Oct 2013 at 5:45 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



146 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-29 11:38:08 PM
This just in: black guys getting killed first and white women getting raped by monsters are plot points in horror films
 
2013-10-30 12:13:24 AM
Could someone translate all that? I don't speak "three year old".

And black people don't die nearly as much in horror movies now that it's become such a cliche.
 
2013-10-30 12:15:31 AM
Anne Elizabeth Moore is the author of "Unmarketable" from the New Press and a series of memoirs from Cantankerous Titles including "New Girl Law" and "Cambodian Grrrl." Her cultural criticism has appeared in the Baffler, The New Inquiry, Jacobin, Tin House, and Al Jazeera, and she does a monthly comics journalism strip on gender, labor, and culture for Truthout called "Ladydrawers."  an uptight broad with too much time on her hands.
 
2013-10-30 12:32:41 AM
Ok, that was actually *more* annoying than a slide show. Who the hell thought a bunch of thumbnails that you have to open one at a time with no simple way to advance to the next one was a good idea for presenting this information? Either inline the full size images, give us a link to one monolithic version that we can scroll through, or give us a damned slideshow.
 
2013-10-30 12:37:47 AM
It's even worse if you perform the same analysis on Disney films.
 
2013-10-30 12:47:57 AM
Click to expand each one separately?

How about you go f*ck yourself instead.

Whoever came up with that format should have their hands removed, painfully, to represent the collective suffering they have likely brought to others.
 
2013-10-30 12:58:28 AM
I guess she doesn't want to examine the biases in fairy tales either then...

Then again, horror tales are a modern evolution of those same hidden cautionary tales, writ larger for adults, and then with dashes of boobs and extra violence...
 
2013-10-30 01:04:40 AM
I think The Cabin In The Woods covered this territory in a much more entertaining way.
 
2013-10-30 01:10:31 AM
"hey everyone! I just found out about the bechdel test so I'm going to base an 'article' on it using numbers that are pretty much meaningless!"
 
2013-10-30 01:34:23 AM

Mentat: I think The Cabin In The Woods covered this territory in a much more entertaining way.


Or Scream.
 
2013-10-30 01:35:22 AM

hubiestubert: I guess she doesn't want to examine the biases in fairy tales either then...

Then again, horror tales are a modern evolution of those same hidden cautionary tales, writ larger for adults, and then with dashes of boobs and extra violence...


Actually modern horror films have much less boobs and violence than any given Grimm tale. The original Boy Who Couldn't Shudder is the least gory and would take a kiddie pool of fake blood to shoot.
 
2013-10-30 01:36:55 AM
*viewing lists were totally subjective and based on the interests, predilections, and foreknowledge of five pretty engaged gender-aware viewers of horror.

Normally I'd not be such a stickler, but no, it's just not acceptable to have an article that's entirely statistics and then have an * and a disclaimer at the bottom saying it's based on a "totally subjective" set of interests and predilections.

They should get a pass because their point is so true and accepted that it's considered a cliche (see Scream and Cabin in the Woods among many others), but this isn't research in any meaningful sense of the word, and cleaving to admittedly meaningless statistics in every panel gives it the feel of trying too hard to restate the obvious.

In other words, they're not helping.
 
2013-10-30 05:23:08 AM
Jesus f*ck throw fire at it. Simply awful.
 
2013-10-30 05:50:46 AM
Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over what they think feminism is.  Wait, I'm on Fark?  Hmmm.  Funny that.  Funny.
 
2013-10-30 05:56:01 AM
MATRIARCHAT Y U OPPRESS MEN!?
 
2013-10-30 05:56:31 AM
Meh. I'm sure the entire horror genre is about average if you just leave out Galaxy of Terror.
 
2013-10-30 05:57:20 AM
"Male-identified" -  What the screaming fark...

This is a feminazi alert. Common sense and reasonable discourse are hereby suspended pending cleansing by fire.
 
2013-10-30 06:00:14 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over what they think feminism is.  Wait, I'm on Fark?  Hmmm.  Funny that.  Funny.


nulluspixiusdemonica: "Male-identified" -  What the screaming fark...

This is a feminazi alert. Common sense and reasonable discourse are hereby suspended pending cleansing by fire.


Only took two posts........
 
2013-10-30 06:12:05 AM
I've never liked horror films. But what I find much more disturbing is the recent profileration of torture porn - Saw and its ilk.
 
2013-10-30 06:19:23 AM

Nogale: I've never liked horror films. But what I find much more disturbing is the recent profileration of torture porn - Saw and its ilk.


recent? Saw came out in 2004. Hostel was 2005.
 
2013-10-30 06:21:58 AM
So this is what Gender Studies majors do for living when not  at their other job at the drive through.

Next up Salon takes on the gender bias in urinal design and  installation
 
2013-10-30 06:31:49 AM
They're usually films based on the most primal things, so for the majority of the film going public it makes sense.

Hardest genre to make a good movie in, IMO
 
2013-10-30 06:32:25 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over what they think feminism is.  Wait, I'm on Fark?  Hmmm.  Funny that.  Funny.


What, your strawman?

Only people violently upset so far are upset at being exposed to information presented in a really shiatty format.

But fark it, keep banging that drum and someone will come along and justify you.

You're pretty much equivalent to someone using shakesville to demonstrate feminism is the preserve of the witlessly vicious.
 
2013-10-30 06:33:15 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over god-awful web design.


FTFY. Click each image and then close each image? Ain't nobody got time for that..
 
2013-10-30 06:43:11 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Only people violently upset so far are upset at being exposed to information presented in a really shiatty format.


Violent Scotsmen?
 
2013-10-30 06:50:47 AM
I still don't get why black guys always have to die so quickly. Meh, horror movies normally suck pretty hard anyway.

/The original Exorcist and Texas Chainsaw Massacre are the only ones that actually scared me and a couple of maybe 5 I've seen that I'd consider great films in general.
 
2013-10-30 06:52:15 AM
I think I would have appreciated that comic more if it were created by a team whose gender composition more closely resembled society.
 
2013-10-30 06:59:48 AM

nulluspixiusdemonica: "Male-identified" -  What the screaming fark...

This is a feminazi alert. Common sense and reasonable discourse are hereby suspended pending cleansing by fire.


I think it's politically correct for tranny.
 
2013-10-30 07:02:33 AM
I've never much liked the horror/slasher genre, mostly because the bulk of it is the same bicycle ride through Dullsville as the movie that preceded it. There might be the odd exception here or there as something fresh arrives, but it soon gets buried beneath the weight of all the crap that follows.

As for the sexploitation of slasher films, yes, that is a little disturbing. I'm not over here wringing my hands about it, but the "boobs and blood" thing just strikes me as not only cliché, but somewhat sick, as well. It sates appetites that deserve a closer inspection than what some wretched B movie can give us.
 
2013-10-30 07:06:01 AM

LewDux: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Only people violently upset so far are upset at being exposed to information presented in a really shiatty format.

Violent Scotsmen?


If we're naming new logical fallacies we may want to go for something less tautological.

/I keed
//No really
///Please, Hamish, put that bottle down.
 
2013-10-30 07:09:22 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: LewDux: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Only people violently upset so far are upset at being exposed to information presented in a really shiatty format.

Violent Scotsmen?

If we're naming new logical fallacies we may want to go for something less tautological.

/I keed
//No really
///Please, Hamish, put that bottle down.


It wasn't tautological, it was sautological. Invent your own
 
2013-10-30 07:16:02 AM
You Scots sure are a contentious people!
 
2013-10-30 07:19:15 AM

LewDux: It wasn't tautological, it was sautological. Invent your own


Sure it was sorta logical, but that doesn't mean we have to reinforce awkward Scottish stereotypes by claiming the author is a bearded, foaming maniac with an ironic penchant for plaid and a refusal to wear underwear. Let people click and decide for themselves.
 
2013-10-30 07:31:18 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over what they think feminism is.  Wait, I'm on Fark?  Hmmm.  Funny that.  Funny.


Hard to have a discussion on the content when it's in such a farked up format.
 
2013-10-30 07:38:42 AM
...I'm surprised this piece wasn't written by Anita Sarkeesian...
 
2013-10-30 07:54:28 AM
I took one look at the format and backed the fark out. Is this a real discussion of gender bias in the genre or is it just the professionally offended being offended professionally?
 
2013-10-30 08:00:37 AM

Jizz Master Zero: I took one look at the format and backed the fark out. Is this a real discussion of gender bias in the genre or is it just the professionally offended being offended professionally?


I'm not sure.  I don't like horror anyway, but the drawings and captions seemed aimed at a very young level.
 
2013-10-30 08:04:43 AM
I Spit on Your Grave (as seen bottom half of  Panel 8) isn't a horror movie, it's a revengeexploitation movie, like the Deathwish Series.
 
2013-10-30 08:05:17 AM

log_jammin: Nogale: I've never liked horror films. But what I find much more disturbing is the recent profileration of torture porn - Saw and its ilk.

recent? Saw came out in 2004. Hostel was 2005.


Yeah, in about the last decade or so. As opposed to horror films, which have been around for ages.
 
2013-10-30 08:06:12 AM
I'd like to see the list of movies they used for this, and also what their definition of sexual violence is. I'm not a huge fan of horror movies, the ones I do watch tend to be the more popular ones, but I can't say sexual violence is an overwhelming theme in what I have seen.
 
2013-10-30 08:16:50 AM
Wow, the victimization industry is really picking up steam lately.  We're finding new indicators of oppression every day.  I'm surprised there hasn't been a mass exodus of the oppressed out of the United States.
 
2013-10-30 08:17:25 AM
How different are these admittedly unreliable numbers different from the product of the film industry in general? Not a single comparison in the whole "article," just a couple or so about society in general.

/ what everyone else said about the ridiculous format
// what everyone else said about the vapidity of the article
/// eat at joe's
 
2013-10-30 08:18:36 AM
I'd be interested in knowing what their list of 74 international horror films are, and how they categorize "people of color". Because if you are watching movies from other countries, the term of "people of color" really starts getting muddled up. Not to mention whatever societal norms that are different from country to country.
 
2013-10-30 08:35:20 AM

Nogale: I've never liked horror films. But what I find much more disturbing is the recent profileration of torture porn - Saw and its ilk.


Yep, the world is an all you can eat buffet of cruelty, pain and human misery.   Never saw the point of paying money to watch fictional re-enactments of it, particularly when so much of it is so awfully, awfully created/directed/acted films that provide little to no insights on the human condition.
 
2013-10-30 08:35:22 AM

Jizz Master Zero: I took one look at the format and backed the fark out. Is this a real discussion of gender bias in the genre or is it just the professionally offended being offended professionally?


Well, they use terms like "Male identified" but without any real consistency. They concluded that all the "characters of color" in the film Manster were being played by white actors (I have no idea what they mean by character of colour, but The Manster is a American/Japanese co-production, was shot in Japan and  features Japanese actors). As other people have noted that they claim to have reviewed international horror movies, but that 84% of leads are white.

Their take away from the observation that male characters die more than female characters is that "female characters die in only slightly lesser numbers than male characters". A 12% higher number of male deaths is insignificant, while the 9% greater likelihood of a female character dying is evidence of something (misogyny?). However there's no way to verify their calculations as key data is missing (ie total numbers of characters and deaths).

They then start talking about films passing the Bechdel test, however they never specify what they mean for a film to pass - a conversation/most conversations/all conversations?

Anyone here seen Manster recently? I looked it up and I think I may have watched it once, but that would have been over twenty years ago on late night television. Does anyone know specifically what the hell they're talking about?

Maybe they consider Japanese people to be white.
 
2013-10-30 08:38:29 AM

Nogale: Yeah, in about the last decade or so. As opposed to horror films, which have been around for ages.


I encourage you to stay ignorant on this subject. there's movies out there(1970s-80s) that make anything "recent" look like a children's film.
 
2013-10-30 08:40:41 AM
Doesn't all horror have some innate morality tale based upon the social mores and or cultural shifts of the times they are told in?

Why is this something new that people are just picking up on?
 
2013-10-30 08:50:28 AM

LowbrowDeluxe: Yay, yet another 4chan Feminism thread where Manly Men get violently upset over what they think feminism is. Wait, I'm on Fark? Hmmm. Funny that. Funny.


What the. . . say, can you try again after the coffee kicks in?  I'm actually amused enough to want to know what hell sort of troll post you're getting at, but as a start this is a bit too nonsensical to get my emotions properly riled up.

Nogale: I've never liked horror films. But what I find much more disturbing is the recent profileration of torture porn - Saw and its ilk.


Torture porn is just delivery of a product to fill a niche demand.  The movies are profitable and cheap to make, so they'll always be around.

If I may refine your point a bit, I want to get away from replacing horror with torture porn.  Hostel, fine, that was never supposed to be anything other than watching idiots get mutilated alive.  Nothing wrong with a movie being honest with itself unless it's true snuff or something.  But then I recently watched the Evil Dead re-make and pretty much every aspect of horror -- campy or no -- was replaced with torture porn.  There was an unbelievable amount of self-mutilation -- even halfway in I began to think the script writer was on the wrong side of the creepy line.  And it's not just that movie.  Black Swan sprinkled enough self-harm just to make sure you never got comfortable.  Martyrs might actually have been more than just a torture porn flick if not for the second half.  The Theon scenes in Game of Thrones -- OK, I can see the rationale.  I'm not convinced of the importance -- walking through the thorough destruction of a minor character (no, the backstory of Grima Wormtongue does not matter) is just indulgent.  I could go on, but suffice to say, it's easy to make audiences uncomfortable with torture porn.  That's what makes it incredibly lazy.
 
2013-10-30 09:02:54 AM
Liberals can take the fun out of anything, can't they?
 
2013-10-30 09:04:45 AM

dameron: *viewing lists were totally subjective and based on the interests, predilections, and foreknowledge of five pretty engaged gender-aware viewers of horror.

Normally I'd not be such a stickler, but no, it's just not acceptable to have an article that's entirely statistics and then have an * and a disclaimer at the bottom saying it's based on a "totally subjective" set of interests and predilections.

They should get a pass because their point is so true and accepted that it's considered a cliche (see Scream and Cabin in the Woods among many others), but this isn't research in any meaningful sense of the word, and cleaving to admittedly meaningless statistics in every panel gives it the feel of trying too hard to restate the obvious.

In other words, they're not helping.


A nontraditional undergrad managed to get her presentation on gender in horror in at our MEDICAL school's undergrad conference. Everybody else shifted around uncomfortably, but I'm from the internet, so I started digging in to her methods during her q&a time, asking about how she rated specific movies and what not. Her answers blew me away by how well designed her study was.

Her results... there was pretty much no difference in murders between men and women, year after year.

Drawback, now the med school knows I'm a gun nut AND a slasher film buff... uncomfortable.
 
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