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(Talking Points Memo)   "I'm concerned about the fact there seems to be a war on the poor. That if you're poor, somehow you're shiftless and lazy." - OH Governor and confirmed Communist John Kasich   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 224
    More: Hero, John Kasich, war on poverty, GOP  
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3113 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Oct 2013 at 4:48 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-29 05:18:10 PM
Kasich's point is?
 
2013-10-29 05:19:58 PM

ongbok: I have a feeling that there are going to be more and more Republicans making statements like these to try to win the moderates back because after their latest behavior, they know that they are losing them.


Specifically any GOPer not from the Derp South.
 
2013-10-29 05:22:49 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Serious Black: The Bible can be used to justify all kinds of things, It's a blank canvas upon which we impose our own worldview.

It's one of the reasons that I learned that it's futile for atheists to try to debate scripture. There are just so many different ways for people to interpret it (even if they claim to be literalists) that it's impossible to nail anything down. The moment you try, you're told that you're either misinterpreting it or ignoring "context".

That's why I stick to non-scriptural arguments like The Problem of Evil.


Having attended a Christian high school and primary school the only good I've been able to salvage is in using my knowledge of scripture to browbeat hypocritical/bigoted Christians. It's cathartic as f*ck.

I don't mess with the soup kitchen, help-the-poor types, though. They're alright.
 
2013-10-29 05:23:20 PM

odinsposse: Break the law? We will send you to prison and punish you so that, even though we have no plan for reintegrating you into society, you will realize that crime is bad and you don't want to go to prison again.


Yup.  It would save society a ton of money to release most non-violent offenders, especially those who got wrapped up under "mandatory minimum" or "Three Strikes" laws.  Even if they can't find work when they're out, it takes a lot less money to give them federal benefits than it does to build guarded fortresses around them.  At the very least, convert as much prison time to court-ordered community service as possible.

A few private prison contract companies would go out of business, but I think we'll survive without them.
 
2013-10-29 05:23:32 PM

Some 'Splainin' To Do: Serious Black: The Bible can be used to justify all kinds of things, It's a blank canvas upon which we impose our own worldview.

It's one of the reasons that I learned that it's futile for atheists to try to debate scripture. There are just so many different ways for people to interpret it (even if they claim to be literalists) that it's impossible to nail anything down. The moment you try, you're told that you're either misinterpreting it or ignoring "context".

That's why I stick to non-scriptural arguments like The Problem of Evil.


I've tried arguing with Evangelicals about what the Bible says using explicit quotes from the book, from religious scholars, and from clergy members (primarily my uncle who is a Catholic priest of about 40 years now). You're exactly right; they inevitably say I am not reading the Bible right, am ignoring context that somehow proves my point is wrong, and that I should stop talking about shiat that I don't believe.
 
2013-10-29 05:25:40 PM
It's sad that these kind of comments coming from a Republican is considered remarkable nowadays.
 
2013-10-29 05:28:21 PM

Chummer45: It's sad that these kind of comments coming from a Republican is considered remarkable nowadays.


This.
 
2013-10-29 05:30:37 PM

Cletus C.: Why buy lobbyists? Cut out the middle man and buy politicians.


You do that too, of course, but through PACs made up of like-minded multinational corporations.
 
2013-10-29 05:31:20 PM

Talondel: vernonFL: If you run around calling yourself a Christian, you cannot at the same tome subscribe to the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Well yeah, considering that Rand was an atheist, I'm pretty sure that would violate some of the core tenants of Christianity. But it's certainly possible to follow other forms of libertarian ideology without running afoul of any Christian tenants. If you hold that caring for your fellow man is an individual and not a collective responsibility, that is consistent with both Christian teaching and libertarianism.


I'm okay with that sort of tack if and only if the same person doesn't also demand that their personal prejudices, supposedly based in Christian ethics, are encoded into civil law. You can believe that Christ wanted the individual, not society, to help the poor, but then you'd better also believe that it's up to the individual to decide whom to marry or whether or not to take birth control.
 
2013-10-29 05:35:40 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: No. Certain people are lazy and have no interest in improving their community or working for a living. You know which people I mean, right? *wink, wink*

No I don't. Do tell.


"Poor" people. *nudge, nudge*
 
2013-10-29 05:39:49 PM

impaler: "Poor" people.


Like my Grandfather.
 
2013-10-29 05:44:56 PM
Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.
 
2013-10-29 05:48:34 PM

Chummer45: It's sad that these kind of comments coming from a Republican is considered remarkable nowadays.


It's remarkable in the sense that he thinks everyone in Ohio is going to forget that he came into the governorship slashing and burning, playing the tea party's greatest hits in the background, and that goes for both Democrats and his own party. About a third of Ohio's abortion clinics have been closed or will shortly be closed because of Kasich's budget manipulation to pass morality bills. I just hope that when Mrs. Staunch Republican has to drive little Sally over the border into Michigan to have her excusable abortion, she remembers who made it so difficult.
 
2013-10-29 05:49:01 PM
When I was a kid I was always jealous of the classmate that had one outfit to wear all year. He didn't even have to think about which outfit he was going to wear that day. Think of all the concern the kids won't have when we take their housing and food away too!
 
2013-10-29 05:53:38 PM

vernonFL: If you run around calling yourself a Christian, you cannot at the same tome subscribe to the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Im glad that Kasich got this part right.

Its really disturbing how many other Republicans don't seem to get it.


Oh sure you can; you simply refuse to process your thoughts and voila...
 
2013-10-29 05:55:33 PM

tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.


With a shiat-ton of collateral damage.
 
2013-10-29 05:55:43 PM
Being poor is totes awesome, she would know!

www.sunbyanyname.com
 
2013-10-29 05:57:12 PM

tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.


Better to starve a million kids then to let one mother smoke a joint and get away with it!
 
2013-10-29 05:57:22 PM

SurfaceTension: I'm wondering if there isn't a wider context to that statement. It definitely seems to be taken from a larger body of remarks.


he wants to be re-elected and isn't in fear of being primaried.
 
2013-10-29 05:59:06 PM

lockers: tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.

Better to starve a million kids then to let one mother smoke a joint and get away with it!


it goes along with their "I'd rather keep a million from voting if it keeps one from getting away with voter fraud."
 
2013-10-29 06:10:28 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

I'm concerned that many people of darker skin don't get paid adequately. Sometimes, they don't get paid at all. I am truly concerned about that.
 
2013-10-29 06:13:17 PM

UrukHaiGuyz: I don't mess with the soup kitchen, help-the-poor types, though. They're alright.


Likewise. For that matter, if I know that someone gets comfort out of their religion and they aren't using it to harm or repress others, I'm more than happy to leave them the hell alone.

In general, the people I debate are only the people who are looking for a debate. I like debate and prefer it when the people I'm debating are enjoying the exchange on those merits.
 
2013-10-29 06:17:25 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: impaler: "Poor" people.

Like my Grandfather.


No, no, no...the shiftless and lazy ones...you know...those people
 
2013-10-29 06:18:48 PM

tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.


img.4plebs.org

Shiftless!

www.ukprogressive.co.uk

Lazy!
 
2013-10-29 06:22:07 PM

tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.

TM

In other words, the Black people, right?
 
2013-10-29 06:23:03 PM

Mugato: Talondel: If you hold that caring for your fellow man is an individual and not a collective responsibility, that is consistent with both Christian teaching and libertarianism.

That's...sort of a valid loophole I guess but then religion is full of them.


Is it really valid when it basically boils down to an argument that "Government should let the poor starve so I have the maximum opportunities possible to earn the brownie points with Jesus to get into Heaven"?
 
2013-10-29 06:28:57 PM

vernonFL: If you run around calling yourself a Christian, you cannot at the same tome subscribe to the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Im glad that Kasich got this part right.

Its really disturbing how many other Republicans don't seem to get it.


Well, they're not really Christians at all. All you'll ever hear them talking about is the Old Testament. They almost never do or say anything the reflects the teachings of Christ.
 
2013-10-29 06:30:46 PM

Hobodeluxe: lockers: tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.

Better to starve a million kids then to let one mother smoke a joint and get away with it!

it goes along with their "I'd rather keep a million from voting if it keeps one from getting away with voter fraud."


Well that is just a bold face lie. States keep a database of registered voters. If I have 52 people registered at my residence I'm going to be caught. It's just not a statistically meaningful problem. No pay off with lots of downside to commit voter fraud in that fashion.
 
2013-10-29 06:30:55 PM

maddogdelta: tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.TM

In other words, the Black people, right?


Jesus Christ not out loud!
 
2013-10-29 06:35:13 PM

impaler: maddogdelta: tbeatty: Actually the war is on the shiftless and lazy.TM

In other words, the Black people, right?

Jesus Christ not out loud!


Call them "urban." Then everyone knows what you mean, but you won't get the help all pissed off at you.
 
2013-10-29 06:35:54 PM

Lionel Mandrake: No, no, no...the shiftless and lazy ones


Get the narrative straight guys.  Is it poor or shiftless and lazy?
 
2013-10-29 06:41:48 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: No, no, no...the shiftless and lazy ones

Get the narrative straight guys.  Is it poor or shiftless and lazy?


Doesn't one imply the other? I thought that was well understood by the GOP faithful.
 
2013-10-29 06:55:22 PM
Do you know why liberals pretend to care about the poor?

Because they vote for Democrats.

And that's setting aside the 'not small' number of liberal elites who are quite happy to keep people poor and stupid for that reason alone.
 
2013-10-29 06:56:25 PM
Kasich is a pretty slow study, apparently.

Somebody ask him about Miley Cyrus next and see what fresh new perspectives he has on all that.
 
2013-10-29 06:56:53 PM
Worthless, union-busting teabagger.
 
2013-10-29 06:58:54 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: No, no, no...the shiftless and lazy ones

Get the narrative straight guys.  Is it poor or shiftless and lazy?


Don't be silly - the terms are synonymous.  It says so in the Bible.  Somewhere in the back, I think.
 
2013-10-29 07:02:37 PM
LOL, what he just NOW figured that out?  Bet he didnt get too specific though, people might realize he is fighting on the rich folks side.

Seriously if wages had tracked to the increase in productivity, minimum wage would be over 22/hr.  Unfortunately since 1970 they have not.  Oddly enough before that they tracked it pretty precisely.....Its weird.  In about 1972 the wages went from tracking it....to being completely flat.

Taxes as a % of GDP are at a low of 14.8% (for fun tea party folks like to post a graph from wikipedia showing that since 2009 the taxes as a % of GDP have gone from 15% to a current of 22.4%.  But if you go to wikipedia you find out the graph was uploaded in 2009, and the 2009-2013 numbers were estimates.  And completely wrong ones as it turned out.  lol.

Inequality is insane.  seriously the numbers are mind blowing.  And most people focus on income inequality, whereas the real shocker is in growing wealth inequality as a result of the income inequality.
 
2013-10-29 07:07:13 PM

Talondel: vernonFL: If you run around calling yourself a Christian, you cannot at the same tome subscribe to the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Well yeah, considering that Rand was an atheist, I'm pretty sure that would violate some of the core tenants of Christianity. But it's certainly possible to follow other forms of libertarian ideology without running afoul of any Christian tenants. If you hold that caring for your fellow man is an individual and not a collective responsibility, that is consistent with both Christian teaching and libertarianism.


Stop. This is Fark where libertarianism and Objectivism are the same thing
 
2013-10-29 07:07:46 PM

Lionel Mandrake: It says so in the Bible. Somewhere in the back, I think.


I'll take your word on it.
 
2013-10-29 07:08:46 PM

skullkrusher: This is Fark where libertarianism and Objectivism are the same thing


Heh.
 
2013-10-29 07:11:10 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: It says so in the Bible. Somewhere in the back, I think.

I'll take your word on it.


You sound lazy.
 
2013-10-29 07:14:33 PM
John Calvin smiles.
 
2013-10-29 07:21:11 PM
media.cleveland.com
Remember kids.. people with Capital can organize into corporations but labor is not allowed to organize into unions.  That's Marxism.
 
2013-10-29 07:26:09 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Lionel Mandrake: No. Certain people are lazy and have no interest in improving their community or working for a living. You know which people I mean, right? *wink, wink*

No I don't. Do tell.


Welfare queens, driving their Cadillacs around. You know, THOSE people.

/also Poverty Pimps
 
2013-10-29 07:26:57 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Worthless, union-busting teabagger.


...who just realized he's gonna need some votes from Cleveland if he wants to be re-elected.
 
2013-10-29 07:27:31 PM

NotoriousW.O.P: Lenny_da_Hog: Jackson Herring: burn in hell forever, reagan, you piece of shiat

This should be especially evident in Ohio.

Reagan basically told Ohioans they were shiftless and lazy when steel died there -- it was all their own fault, and the only reason unemployment soared was because they were all lazy. Then he cut all of the employment and retraining programs (like CETA and the BEOG).

Maybe Kasich has a memory.

Probably, but not the way you might think. Kasich's actually a Pittsburgh native, and the community where he grew up (McKees Rocks) has become fairly distressed since deindustrialization.

/Youngstown native
//Born three weeks before Black Monday
///Them big boys did what Hitler couldn't do


I lived in Warren in the 70s and went to YSU (until Reagan cut the BEOG and education subsidies). I watched it all come tumbling down.
 
2013-10-29 07:27:53 PM
 
2013-10-29 07:33:16 PM

12349876: Serious Black: Talondel: vernonFL: If you run around calling yourself a Christian, you cannot at the same tome subscribe to the philosophy of Ayn Rand.

Well yeah, considering that Rand was an atheist, I'm pretty sure that would violate some of the core tenants of Christianity. But it's certainly possible to follow other forms of libertarian ideology without running afoul of any Christian tenants. If you hold that caring for your fellow man is an individual and not a collective responsibility, that is consistent with both Christian teaching and libertarianism.

The Bible can be used to justify all kinds of things, It's a blank canvas upon which we impose our own worldview.

I'd call it a rainbow canvas.  So many words, so many authors, you can pick whatever color you like.


I'll take fuchsia!
 
2013-10-29 07:35:55 PM

Cletus C.: War on the poor? Ha! They can't even afford a gun.


I bet they still have refrigerators though.
 
2013-10-29 07:46:28 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: Reciprocal altruism implies that voters will dislike giving money to the poor if, as in the United States, the poor are perceived as lazy. In contrast, Europeans overwhelmingly believe that the poor are poor because they have been unfortunate. This difference in views is part of what is sometimes referred to as "American exceptionalism." Link


I got into a knock-down, drag-out argument with an ex over this very topic. She's a remarkably intelligent woman, but she just couldn't grasp that maybe, just maybe, a small (yet growing) portion of America's poor are poor due to something beyond their control. Despite providing reasonable examples, even ones from my own f*cking extended family, she simply couldn't fathom why these lazy poor people weren't going out and getting jobs. After all, she was able to find one.

Ugh, I'm getting a knot in my stomach just thinking about it.
 
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