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(Green Bay Press Gazette)   13-year-old girl killed by irony   (greenbaypressgazette.com) divider line 34
    More: Sad, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, Sarah Thorsland, safety class, traffic cone  
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16183 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Oct 2013 at 7:45 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-29 07:49:58 AM
Who gets her Barbie dollhouse?
 
2013-10-29 07:54:09 AM
why wasn't there a governor on it set to allow nothing faster then putt-putt speed? if there was and it is faulty i smell lawsuit.
 
2013-10-29 07:56:39 AM

starlost: why wasn't there a governor on it set to allow nothing faster then putt-putt speed? if there was and it is faulty i smell lawsuit.


I think Scott Walker already knows how to ride a snowmobile. But you may have smelled his faults.
 
2013-10-29 07:58:55 AM
who teaches safety classes near a loading dock door?
 
2013-10-29 07:59:57 AM
Website killed by Fark.
 
2013-10-29 08:04:54 AM
DNR-sanctioned class

Do Not Resuscitate sanctioned?  It was the perfect storm of accidents.

/No, not that DNR.
 
2013-10-29 08:05:39 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Website killed by Fark.


'Website Crashes In To Loading Dock.'
 
2013-10-29 08:07:59 AM
A SECOND WEBSITE HAS HIT THE SERVER!!!!!
 
2013-10-29 08:09:31 AM
It's unclear why the snowmobile accelerated when Thorsland was at the controls.

Is it that big of a mystery?
 
2013-10-29 08:09:40 AM
It'd be irony if she'd passed the course.
 
2013-10-29 08:12:55 AM

MooseUpNorth: It'd be irony if she'd passed the course.


No, it'd be a miracle since she flunked the real life exam.
 
2013-10-29 08:20:34 AM

I_Am_Weasel: DNR-sanctioned class

Do Not Resuscitate sanctioned?  It was the perfect storm of accidents.


'Sudden Death'-mode.

/Keepin' it real..
 
2013-10-29 08:25:18 AM

shaddix: It's unclear why the snowmobile accelerated when Thorsland was at the controls.

Is it that big of a mystery?


Well, when it hasn't happened in ~30 years of holding courses, 'user error' on the course shouldn't be automatically assumed.  I'll admit that it's likely what happened, but one would think that some idiot would have done something similar by now.

starlost: why wasn't there a governor on it set to allow nothing faster then putt-putt speed? if there was and it is faulty i smell lawsuit.


No prior demonstrated need for one?  Heck, if it's like my motorcycle class, you're eventually winding the machines up to more significant speeds in later parts of the course.  A governor might not be practical at that point, especially if people are using their personal machines, not course provided ones(I've seen it both ways for the motorcycle safety classes).
 
2013-10-29 08:47:42 AM
DNR officials said they believe Thorsland's death is the first fatality to occur during any DNR safety class.

DNR?
Unfortunate use of Acronymisting.


Why yes, I do play Calvinball English, why do you askingly?
 
2013-10-29 08:54:53 AM
I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.
 
2013-10-29 09:02:58 AM

lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.


These usually seem to be pretty low-budget classes. I know the snowmobile I rode on was a fairly old one in one of those classes. Normally everyone just putts around the track, and there's no problem. I'm wondering if the throttle maybe stuck on it, or if she accidentally accelerated, and then gripped the throttle tightly to try to hold on (I've seen people do this on dirtbikes). There is a kill switch on the snowmobile and you're instructed on how to use that, but I think there was never really a need for a remote kill.
 
2013-10-29 09:09:27 AM
I bet that they will find that the machine was low on gas. Counterintuitively this can make a 2 stroke engine suddenly rev very fast and there is almost no way to stop it as the cumbustion can run away even with out spark from the ignition, thus making a govener or kill switch useless. I have experienced this first hand on a 2 stroke motorcycle, fortunately I had a clutch, another thing most snowmobiles lack.
 
2013-10-29 09:19:03 AM

buzzgoat: I bet that they will find that the machine was low on gas. Counterintuitively this can make a 2 stroke engine suddenly rev very fast and there is almost no way to stop it as the cumbustion can run away even with out spark from the ignition, thus making a govener or kill switch useless.


Yeah, I'd like to have been a fly on the wall when the engineering department glossed over that part when the original 2-stroke engine was presented.

Engineers: "We find that it's best not to let this engine run out of gas."
Investor: "Yes, it sure would be annoying to get stranded somewhere!"
Engineers: "No, the engine actually tries to kill you, if it senses hunger."
Investor: "..... "
Engineers: "Just kidding! Please pay us for this!"
Investor: "Marvelous!"
 
2013-10-29 09:26:00 AM

Public Savant: buzzgoat: I bet that they will find that the machine was low on gas. Counterintuitively this can make a 2 stroke engine suddenly rev very fast and there is almost no way to stop it as the cumbustion can run away even with out spark from the ignition, thus making a govener or kill switch useless.

Yeah, I'd like to have been a fly on the wall when the engineering department glossed over that part when the original 2-stroke engine was presented.

Engineers: "We find that it's best not to let this engine run out of gas."
Investor: "Yes, it sure would be annoying to get stranded somewhere!"
Engineers: "No, the engine actually tries to kill you, if it senses hunger."
Investor: "..... "
Engineers: "Just kidding! Please pay us for this!"
Investor: "Marvelous!"


Being low on fuel causes the engine to run lean and as the 2 stroke engine "scavenges" vapors from the exaust and pulls in more vapor the cumbustion is an explosion rather than a controlled burn. Sounds weird I know, but if you run the engine that lean all the time you get lots of power, but high temps and eventually blow the engine. That's also why you run oil in the fuel, both to lube the engine and to slow the burn.
 
2013-10-29 09:26:30 AM
She won the lottery which was paid off as 10,000 spoons that were dumped on her while she was picking a black fly out of her chardonnay?
 
2013-10-29 09:28:46 AM

starlost: why wasn't there a governor on it set to allow nothing faster then putt-putt speed? if there was and it is faulty i smell lawsuit.


lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.


www.etekarts.com
 
2013-10-29 09:32:51 AM

Pilotgeek: lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.

These usually seem to be pretty low-budget classes. I know the snowmobile I rode on was a fairly old one in one of those classes. Normally everyone just putts around the track, and there's no problem. I'm wondering if the throttle maybe stuck on it, or if she accidentally accelerated, and then gripped the throttle tightly to try to hold on (I've seen people do this on dirtbikes). There is a kill switch on the snowmobile and you're instructed on how to use that, but I think there was never really a need for a remote kill.


A Magoo's near me used to sell children's ATV's (knock off brand) that came with remote kill switches as standard equipment.  They can't be all that expensive.  I don't know a single person who would put their kid on something like this without a remote kill switch, and should be a must for first time riders.  Also, if the snowmobile if for low speed course running, why wasn't the speed restricted.  There are ways to restrict the throttle movement.
 
2013-10-29 09:43:57 AM

lack of warmth: Pilotgeek: lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.

These usually seem to be pretty low-budget classes. I know the snowmobile I rode on was a fairly old one in one of those classes. Normally everyone just putts around the track, and there's no problem. I'm wondering if the throttle maybe stuck on it, or if she accidentally accelerated, and then gripped the throttle tightly to try to hold on (I've seen people do this on dirtbikes). There is a kill switch on the snowmobile and you're instructed on how to use that, but I think there was never really a need for a remote kill.

A Magoo's near me used to sell children's ATV's (knock off brand) that came with remote kill switches as standard equipment.  They can't be all that expensive.  I don't know a single person who would put their kid on something like this without a remote kill switch, and should be a must for first time riders.  Also, if the snowmobile if for low speed course running, why wasn't the speed restricted.  There are ways to restrict the throttle movement.


The thing is, It's not the kill switch and governor that's expensive, it's retrofitting it on the equipment they already have. Two strokes also don't work the same as 4 strokes, and it can be more difficult to add a governor to them.
 
2013-10-29 10:02:40 AM

lack of warmth: A Magoo's near me used to sell children's ATV's (knock off brand) that came with remote kill switches as standard equipment. They can't be all that expensive. I don't know a single person who would put their kid on something like this without a remote kill switch, and should be a must for first time riders. Also, if the snowmobile if for low speed course running, why wasn't the speed restricted. There are ways to restrict the throttle movement.

"


There were 42 participants in the class, we do not know if they each had a snowmobile and we do not know if they were supplied or some combination of supplied and people bringing their own.

So let us say that there were six snowmobiles and they were safety class provided.  Girl on one suddenly takes off full speed towards a loading dock, do you think you can find the kill switch for that particular snowmobile before she hits the loading dock?

Can't say because we do not have enough information.
 
2013-10-29 10:23:59 AM

Firethorn: shaddix: It's unclear why the snowmobile accelerated when Thorsland was at the controls.

Is it that big of a mystery?

Well, when it hasn't happened in ~30 years of holding courses, 'user error' on the course shouldn't be automatically assumed.  I'll admit that it's likely what happened, but one would think that some idiot would have done something similar by now.


I'm certain someone has, they just didn't die from it!
 
2013-10-29 10:31:58 AM

Pilotgeek: lack of warmth: Pilotgeek: lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.

These usually seem to be pretty low-budget classes. I know the snowmobile I rode on was a fairly old one in one of those classes. Normally everyone just putts around the track, and there's no problem. I'm wondering if the throttle maybe stuck on it, or if she accidentally accelerated, and then gripped the throttle tightly to try to hold on (I've seen people do this on dirtbikes). There is a kill switch on the snowmobile and you're instructed on how to use that, but I think there was never really a need for a remote kill.

A Magoo's near me used to sell children's ATV's (knock off brand) that came with remote kill switches as standard equipment.  They can't be all that expensive.  I don't know a single person who would put their kid on something like this without a remote kill switch, and should be a must for first time riders.  Also, if the snowmobile if for low speed course running, why wasn't the speed restricted.  There are ways to restrict the throttle movement.

The thing is, It's not the kill switch and governor that's expensive, it's retrofitting it on the equipment they already have. Two strokes also don't work the same as 4 strokes, and it can be more difficult to add a governor to them.


I'm thinking of low tech speed control.  There are ways to physically putting a stop to how far the throttle cable can move.  I wouldn't guess the thing has a computer like a car, I know better.  I had a lawn mower that came without a throttle cable and revved higher than I cared for, so I changed the set throttle.  I doubt the throttle will be all that different on a 2 cycle snowmobile since the thing still has a carburetor.  The action can be manipulated.  Unless they are paying top dollar to a shop to care for the machine, this shouldn't be expensive.  Then again, if I can't do it myself, I have a buddy who runs a shop, meaning I could get this done in a week and will only cost me his parts cost.  In fact, I have a second buddy who is taking small engine repair courses right now.
 
2013-10-29 10:32:40 AM
here's a safety tip: wear a farking helmet
 
2013-10-29 10:50:39 AM

lack of warmth: I know I am crazy and my thoughts are way off everyone else's ideas, but just hear me out.  Kill switch, why would a safety class teaching first time riders not have kill switches on their equipment?  Obviously, once the snowmobile started taking off, she froze holding the accelerator and if the instructor had a the button to a kill switch in their hand, she would still be alive.  I know they exist, they put them on small child quad ATV's.


The instructor obviously had a kill switch. She died.
 
2013-10-29 11:04:22 AM

mrEdude: here's a safety tip: wear a farking helmet


Cute, since helmets rarely prevent deaths in snowmobile accidents and this girl was likely wearing one.  I'll pass that on to my buddy who was asked to check out a snowmobile accident for a snowmobile maker to make sure the machine didn't cause the accident.  The woman was wearing a helmet, and the helmet was still on her head.  Her head was no longer still on her.

The reason why you don't see snowmobilers running without helmets or not wanting to wear helmets isn't so much safety as keeping the head warm.  The same guys who won't wear a helmet on motorcycles will wear full face helmets in the winter.  The helmet does nothing when you body slams into a tree, it just helps with little branches smacking at your head.  Big branches will, well what happened to the woman above.
 
2013-10-29 11:16:09 AM

shaddix: Is it that big of a mystery?


Let's go back to the article headline. Maybe we can find some clues in it. Ah yes, here we go...Girl...13...
I think we can close the books on this one.

/all snark aside, i haz a sad
 
2013-10-29 11:46:40 AM
Despite what Lack of Warmth may have said, I have been on the other side of many, many snowmobile accidents. usually if i became premixed, my hands would seize up, which would increase the throttle, at which point the object I had been worried about then came at me faster. Helmets have saved me from multiple traumatic brain injuries. My first accident cracked the helmet, not my skull. Next accident took pdf a piece of the helmet, instead of taking off most of my jaw. Stopped riding after that last one.
 
2013-10-29 11:55:41 AM
Preview is my friend. I don't even know where to start.
 
2013-10-29 01:07:23 PM

Trance354: Preview is my friend. I don't even know where to start.


Heh, is it too soon to make a TBI joke?
 
2013-10-29 09:01:48 PM
CSB:

When I was in university the campus was running DNR training classes to become DNR officers. (The DNR was short on people and hiring everyone who finished the program). I was joking with one of their students that it must be fun to spend all morning driving an ATV. He told me they were limited to 20 kph (12.4 mph) but that one of his classmates rolled his ATV twice the first week and was limited to 15 kph (9.3 mph).
 
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