If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(The Detroit_News)   U.S. automakers struggle with reliability, but so far have still managed to fend it off   (detroitnews.com) divider line 102
    More: Obvious, automakers, Consumer Reports, automakers struggle, Kelley Blue Book, reliability, Auburn Hills, General Motors Co., Acura  
•       •       •

2004 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Oct 2013 at 2:05 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



102 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-10-29 12:36:50 PM  
2010 seems to be the last year in which cars had plain knobs on things. I'm glad my Outback is from that year. Touchscreens are fine while I'm sitting still, but when I'm driving I don't want to press an icon, wait for something to load, and then have to find the menu option to change from FM to AUX.
 
2013-10-29 12:49:08 PM  

verbaltoxin: 2010 seems to be the last year in which cars had plain knobs on things. I'm glad my Outback is from that year. Touchscreens are fine while I'm sitting still, but when I'm driving I don't want to press an icon, wait for something to load, and then have to find the menu option to change from FM to AUX.


I have a 2014 Outback and it doesn't have a touchscreen. Buttons on the entertainment system and steering wheel.
 
2013-10-29 12:57:45 PM  

Iceman_Cometh: verbaltoxin: 2010 seems to be the last year in which cars had plain knobs on things. I'm glad my Outback is from that year. Touchscreens are fine while I'm sitting still, but when I'm driving I don't want to press an icon, wait for something to load, and then have to find the menu option to change from FM to AUX.

I have a 2014 Outback and it doesn't have a touchscreen. Buttons on the entertainment system and steering wheel.


Yep, my father recently bought a 2014 Forrester. No touchscreen, all physical buttons and knobs.
 
2013-10-29 01:50:32 PM  

akula: I agree that they'll figure it out, but they would be doing buyers a favor if they'd do more thinking while still retaining some of the "old" ways for the time being.


Oh I totally agree.  The problem is they feel like they have to be the first to market with something, even if that something kind of sucks initially.  It seems like they're using the modern video game model of using early adopters as beta testers, but that model works very differently on $50 video games than it does on $25,000 cars.
 
2013-10-29 01:56:05 PM  
Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.
 
2013-10-29 02:08:04 PM  
Lemme get this straight:  Consumer Report docked these cars not because fitfinish or engine reliability but because people can't figure out how to use the radio?

How many people are actually using these systems instead of the navigation apps on their phones anyway?  Personally, outside of the radio, all I want in a sound system is are nice speakers, a good and and either an AUX jack or USB port for my iProduct
 
2013-10-29 02:10:23 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.


Things may have changed in the past decade, but the 3.0L V6 "Flex-Fuel" engine in my '99 Ford Ranger was a gutless and complete POS.

Due to a "manufacturing defect" it quit oiling the timing chain at 89,000 miles. The force of the chain tearing apart punched a hole in the block, tore through the water pump, and lodged itself into the radiator; the cylinders subsequently slammed into the injectors. It was a complete total of nearly everything ahead of the transmission. I bought the truck new, and was faced with dozens of different mechanical and electrical problems in the first two years ownership. From replacement ECU, snapped throttle cable, constantly replacing power window regulators, a couple pre-recall freeway blowouts from the Firestone Wilderness AT tires, wire harness, fuel pump, TCP valves, auto transmission gasket tearing, etc. It was a complete piece of crap.

Then I got smart and bought a new Toyota Tacoma in 2005 and bought a Nissan LEAF at the beginning of the year. The Taco has 170,000 trouble-free miles now and the LEAF is going to roll over 10k gas free miles later this week.

/fark American cars.
 
2013-10-29 02:13:17 PM  
"I bought a Chrysler 300 back in 2000. Six years later it was costing $4k a year to keep on the road when the front windows fell out.

Think about that. The front windows falling out of a car. How bad does your build quality have to be for the windows to fall out of the car during normal use?"

Yeah, I thought about it Marcus and realized when I favorited you as "Anti Mopar Stupid", I did so correctly.
If any car is costing you $4K a year, it's because you're so stupid the mechanics are bending you over a barrel and porking you deeply. Meanwhile, I still have my 2000 Grand Caravan, no, the windows have never fallen out, even though it's been beat so hard on WV back roads I've had to change the oil pan a couple of times.
BTW, your 2000 300, if it actually existed, would have been a FWD 300M. It has nothing in common with 300s built now, so your anecdotal, possible false, story means nothing when talking about later Chryslers.
 
2013-10-29 02:31:06 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.


The Japanese aren't always 100% either. Our 2005 Acura TL had issues with the bluetooth module and my bother's much newer Odyssey (think it's a 2011... it was one of the first of the current style) has had issues with theirs too, making me think Honda still isn't doing that correctly.

But then, my wife's G37x has been pretty solid in that respect, so it may just be Honda. I used to love Honda, but at the moment they aren't doing one thing that interests me.
 
2013-10-29 02:32:18 PM  
The problem I have with my Ford's sync is that when you plug in your Ipod you suddenly need to do everything through the car and can't just use the frigin scroll wheel.

Maybe I have an old Ipod but I feel like I shouldn't have to shout at the car's voice pickup so it understands I said "Beatles" instead of "Eagles."
 
2013-10-29 02:38:55 PM  
If my stereo goes out it doesnt mean my car is a piece of crap.

Watch Top Gear... most "Infotainment" systems are crap... some are just a polished turd while others are a Chipotle toilet abortion.
 
2013-10-29 02:39:42 PM  
 
2013-10-29 02:48:04 PM  

StrikitRich: Lemme get this straight:  Consumer Report docked these cars not because fitfinish or engine reliability but because people can't figure out how to use the radio?


If people aren't using those features then the bad marks they cause shouldn't have any effect. I read consumer reports reviews and not all parts of the reviews are always relevant to my interests. It's always been that way. For example, they might be critical of a car for having a tight back seat and small trunk space, but I almost never carry people in the back seat of my car and I don't generally haul much around with it so those parts don't matter to me.

If automakers are going to add these things, though, they'd be wrong not to critique them. It's part of the car. If you don't give a shiat if the infotainment system works, fine, but some people will and it wouldn't be fair to them not to hit the car in the review over problems with those systems.

Kurmudgeon: Yeah, I thought about it Marcus and realized when I favorited you as "Anti Mopar Stupid", I did so correctly.


oh! oh! Tell us the one about how the real problem with the Daimler-Chrysler merger was that Mercedes-Benz makes poor quality cars and dragged Chrysler down!
 
2013-10-29 02:51:09 PM  

MrSteve007: Iceman_Cometh: verbaltoxin: 2010 seems to be the last year in which cars had plain knobs on things. I'm glad my Outback is from that year. Touchscreens are fine while I'm sitting still, but when I'm driving I don't want to press an icon, wait for something to load, and then have to find the menu option to change from FM to AUX.

I have a 2014 Outback and it doesn't have a touchscreen. Buttons on the entertainment system and steering wheel.

Yep, my father recently bought a 2014 Forrester. No touchscreen, all physical buttons and knobs.


Sweet. I like that my car is developed by a heavy equipment manufacturer.
 
2013-10-29 02:51:55 PM  

Meatschool: ToastTheRabbiatchipotle toilet abortion

My new band name.


If you actually do it I'd promote it. Just because I want to see it strung on a huge marque down on Sunset Strip...
 
2013-10-29 03:20:17 PM  

MrSteve007: Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

Things may have changed in the past decade, but the 3.0L V6 "Flex-Fuel" engine in my '99 Ford Ranger was a gutless and complete POS.

Due to a "manufacturing defect" it quit oiling the timing chain at 89,000 miles. The force of the chain tearing apart punched a hole in the block, tore through the water pump, and lodged itself into the radiator; the cylinders subsequently slammed into the injectors. It was a complete total of nearly everything ahead of the transmission. I bought the truck new, and was faced with dozens of different mechanical and electrical problems in the first two years ownership. From replacement ECU, snapped throttle cable, constantly replacing power window regulators, a couple pre-recall freeway blowouts from the Firestone Wilderness AT tires, wire harness, fuel pump, TCP valves, auto transmission gasket tearing, etc. It was a complete piece of crap.

Then I got smart and bought a new Toyota Tacoma in 2005 and bought a Nissan LEAF at the beginning of the year. The Taco has 170,000 trouble-free miles now and the LEAF is going to roll over 10k gas free miles later this week.

/fark American cars.


if you had bought an earlier Tacoma you would be singing a different tune. Massive recall and purchase refund program a couple of years ago

/frame rot is fun
 
2013-10-29 03:26:38 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.


Earlier this year I got rid of my 1993 GMC Suburban. My parents drove the shiat out of it up until 2006ish when gas prices shot up. It sat unused until 2010 when my wife and I moved and they gave it to us to help since neither one of us had a truck. We kept it while we were getting settled and working on the house / lawn for the back and forth trips to home despot. Finally got rid of it this year because the oil pressure started dropping to almost nothing, I'm guessing worn out bearings in the engine. As far as I know the only problems my parents ever had with it were the alternator, water pump, and the starter. It only cost me a set of tires, oil changes, inspection, and gas and I still sold it for $500.

Oh and with 312K miles on it.

My wife's old 2000 Taurus was falling apart with 120K on it. Replaced it with a Trailblazer.
 
2013-10-29 03:44:27 PM  

dumbobruni: if you had bought an earlier Tacoma you would be singing a different tune. Massive recall and purchase refund program a couple of years ago/frame rot is fun


You say that like it's a bad thing; a company owning up to their poor engineering. I'd be pleased as punch if Ford had offered me a purchase refund on my Ranger. At 32,000 miles in, I looked into opting to use the "Lemon Law' for my Ranger, as it qualified by being in repair the dealership shop over 70 days - but I discovered that they deducted mileage from the value to qualify it as a lemon. Using the state's math, I'd end up ahead simply selling the truck on the private market. I opted to keep the truck, which in hindsight, was a big mistake, since I had to replace the engine a few years later.

I did, however get an fairly decent settlement from Firestone/Ford for my Wilderness AT blowouts. I had attempted to get the dealership to replace my original tires, and complained on record many times that they were defective. Even after the Explorers started getting recalled for the tires, it took another 18 months (and two additional blowouts on my truck) for Ford to take notice of the Rangers. I forget which company paid out, but the check for $5,000 shut me up helped - which was about the cost for a new engine and radiator soon there-after.
 
2013-10-29 04:00:49 PM  

StopLurkListen: Comic Book Guy: GM cars are still largely designed-by-committee pieces of shiat that, while marginally better than model years past, still lag behind their competition.

Don't confuse design and execution with reliability, which is what the discussion is about. Your feelings about design are valid consumer feedback when the discussion is about UX.

pheelix: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

I welcome your input, can you elaborate? I'd like to see some numbers.


You posted a JD Power and Associates graph of problems reported by new car buyers during the first 90 days of ownership.  Such a short time span on a brand new vehicle says very little about how often that car will need repairs throughout its useful life.  I repeat: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

3 658673 122.4   9888277  3.14159265359
 
2013-10-29 04:06:13 PM  

pheelix: 3 658673 122.4 9888277 3.14159265359


I lol'd
 
2013-10-29 04:13:53 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "I bought a Chrysler 300 back in 2000. Six years later it was costing $4k a year to keep on the road when the front windows fell out.

Think about that. The front windows falling out of a car. How bad does your build quality have to be for the windows to fall out of the car during normal use?"

Yeah, I thought about it Marcus and realized when I favorited you as "Anti Mopar Stupid", I did so correctly.
If any car is costing you $4K a year, it's because you're so stupid the mechanics are bending you over a barrel and porking you deeply. Meanwhile, I still have my 2000 Grand Caravan, no, the windows have never fallen out, even though it's been beat so hard on WV back roads I've had to change the oil pan a couple of times.
BTW, your 2000 300, if it actually existed, would have been a FWD 300M. It has nothing in common with 300s built now, so your anecdotal, possible false, story means nothing when talking about later Chryslers.


Let's put it this way. It's not really a good reflection on an auto manufacturer when its nickname comes from the division that makes the replacement parts, is it?
 
2013-10-29 04:45:29 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Kurmudgeon: "I bought a Chrysler 300 back in 2000. Six years later it was costing $4k a year to keep on the road when the front windows fell out.

Think about that. The front windows falling out of a car. How bad does your build quality have to be for the windows to fall out of the car during normal use?"

Yeah, I thought about it Marcus and realized when I favorited you as "Anti Mopar Stupid", I did so correctly.
If any car is costing you $4K a year, it's because you're so stupid the mechanics are bending you over a barrel and porking you deeply. Meanwhile, I still have my 2000 Grand Caravan, no, the windows have never fallen out, even though it's been beat so hard on WV back roads I've had to change the oil pan a couple of times.
BTW, your 2000 300, if it actually existed, would have been a FWD 300M. It has nothing in common with 300s built now, so your anecdotal, possible false, story means nothing when talking about later Chryslers.

Let's put it this way. It's not really a good reflection on an auto manufacturer when its nickname comes from the division that makes the replacement parts, is it?


Your newsletter intrigues me and I wish to subscribe. Will it include a complimentary parts 300?
 
2013-10-29 04:46:37 PM  

pheelix: StopLurkListen: Comic Book Guy: GM cars are still largely designed-by-committee pieces of shiat that, while marginally better than model years past, still lag behind their competition.

Don't confuse design and execution with reliability, which is what the discussion is about. Your feelings about design are valid consumer feedback when the discussion is about UX.

pheelix: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

I welcome your input, can you elaborate? I'd like to see some numbers.

You posted a JD Power and Associates graph of problems reported by new car buyers during the first 90 days of ownership.  Such a short time span on a brand new vehicle says very little about how often that car will need repairs throughout its useful life.  I repeat: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.


Assertion is not data.  You're welcome to back up your assertions, though.
 
2013-10-29 04:49:30 PM  
Can we please stop blending cars and entertainment computers together? Do we really need more distractions on the road with the dumbasses who are steering the car with their elbows while eating from their KFC GoCup and trying to update their facebook status through the car stereo? More useless features that are increasing the price of a car, and will probably go out of date in a few years anyway, requiring more $$ for an upgrade. Until I have a Google Car that drives me everywhere, all I need is a basic stereo and an aux input. I use a phone app for navigation if I really need it, which is very rarely.

\My father has a 2012 Elantra with a touchscreen setup. It actually isn't bad as it is pretty simple (just radio, nav, and bluetooth controls), but they forced a back-up camera into the package. Why the hell do you need a backup camera in a compact car?
 
2013-10-29 05:04:32 PM  

MBZ321: Can we please stop blending cars


That gives me an idea, but we're gonna need a bigger blender...

imba2012.wikispaces.com
 
2013-10-29 05:08:22 PM  

Prophet of Loss: Parents bought a Chrysler 500. Six years on, its falling apart.



Meanwhile my 13 year old Lexus is going to go another 200,000 miles without a problem.  It's practically invincible.

/and comfortable
//and fun to drive
 
2013-10-29 05:15:52 PM  

groppet: DoomPaul: I'm not too much of a fan of CR's car ratings. People disliking the car's infotainment system is somehow on the same level as having a shiatty drive train that frequently breaks down.

Yeah no shiat. I really dont care about the infotainment system in a car, as long as the important parts work I am fine. When I got my car a year ago they tried pushing the state of the

art bells and whistle infotainment package on me. I forget how many thousands more that would bring the price up to. I passed on it.
I thought that guy was retired!
 
2013-10-29 05:35:48 PM  

ToastTheRabbit: If my stereo goes out it doesnt mean my car is a piece of crap.


But what if your stereo controls the A/C and you live in Arizona?  It would be pretty crappy if it failed.
 
2013-10-29 05:49:13 PM  

StopLurkListen: pheelix: StopLurkListen: Comic Book Guy: GM cars are still largely designed-by-committee pieces of shiat that, while marginally better than model years past, still lag behind their competition.

Don't confuse design and execution with reliability, which is what the discussion is about. Your feelings about design are valid consumer feedback when the discussion is about UX.

pheelix: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

I welcome your input, can you elaborate? I'd like to see some numbers.

You posted a JD Power and Associates graph of problems reported by new car buyers during the first 90 days of ownership.  Such a short time span on a brand new vehicle says very little about how often that car will need repairs throughout its useful life.  I repeat: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

Assertion is not data.  You're welcome to back up your assertions, though.



 

StopLurkListen: Reliability across makes is actually narrowing, the only way to really differentiate is through stuff like "infotainment systems".



img.fark.net

Your quote, along with the pic you posted.  My assertion is that you made an apples to oranges comparison.  However, if you'd like to provide some data backing YOUR assertion that Reliability across makes actually IS narrowing, by all means do so.  Once again, because you don't seem to understand: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.
 
2013-10-29 05:54:28 PM  

MBZ321: \My father has a 2012 Elantra with a touchscreen setup. It actually isn't bad as it is pretty simple (just radio, nav, and bluetooth controls), but they forced a back-up camera into the package. Why the hell do you need a backup camera in a compact car?


Because a lot of the new car designs have sloping lines that result in shiatty rear visibility. Even in the compacts.
 
2013-10-29 05:59:14 PM  

pheelix: Your quote, along with the pic you posted. My assertion is that you made an apples to oranges comparison. However, if you'd like to provide some data backing YOUR assertion that Reliability across makes actually IS narrowing, by all means do so. Once again, because you don't seem to understand: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.



Funny, you don't show the 2011 data - which clearly shows a number of US brands plummeting in quality again - especially Ford. And interestingly, Toyota rising greatly in initial quality. Although Car & Driver has overall issues with trying to rank cars with the JD powers quality survey.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-init ia l-quality-study-feature#JDCHART
 
2013-10-29 06:04:46 PM  

odinsposse: MBZ321: \My father has a 2012 Elantra with a touchscreen setup. It actually isn't bad as it is pretty simple (just radio, nav, and bluetooth controls), but they forced a back-up camera into the package. Why the hell do you need a backup camera in a compact car?

Because a lot of the new car designs have sloping lines that result in shiatty rear visibility. Even in the compacts.


A law was passed in 2007 that essentially requires all cars to have backup cameras by 2011. It's been pushed back a couple times, with the requirement apparently going into place for 2015 models. I certainly doesn't surprise me that some automakers are simply making it a standard early.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/09/25/backup-cameras-d ot -lawsuit-gulbransen-obama-administration/2870819/
 
2013-10-29 06:27:48 PM  

Kurmudgeon: "I bought a Chrysler 300 back in 2000. Six years later it was costing $4k a year to keep on the road when the front windows fell out.

Think about that. The front windows falling out of a car. How bad does your build quality have to be for the windows to fall out of the car during normal use?"

Yeah, I thought about it Marcus and realized when I favorited you as "Anti Mopar Stupid", I did so correctly.
If any car is costing you $4K a year, it's because you're so stupid the mechanics are bending you over a barrel and porking you deeply. Meanwhile, I still have my 2000 Grand Caravan, no, the windows have never fallen out, even though it's been beat so hard on WV back roads I've had to change the oil pan a couple of times.
BTW, your 2000 300, if it actually existed, would have been a FWD 300M. It has nothing in common with 300s built now, so your anecdotal, possible false, story means nothing when talking about later Chryslers.


Yes yes, the old 300 sucked, the new one is awesome, etc etc.  Chrysler apologists have been doing the "they're better now, the cars don't have glitches anymore" for something close to 50 years now.  I know more than a few 65+ year old guys who are as rah rah American car as you can get, but for them the choices are Ford and GM only, and that even goes back to when they were teenagers.  True, the K car in the early 80s was bolted together better than previous models, but ask any owner how long they went before the electrical system started to glitch out.  Chrysler's QC got to be so bad that when Daimler bought them, the gremlins started infecting the C and E series Benz models in just a few years.  And now Fiat, of all companies, is taking a crack at fixing them, and the jury is still out on that - there are 10 to 15 mid-size sedans that are pretty much no-brainer purchases compared to the 200 due to build quality and value, and the 300 is... OK, I guess, but still not remotely the top car in its segment.
 
2013-10-29 06:55:33 PM  

taliesinwi: the K car in the early 80s was bolted together better than previous models


K-cars sucked-ass. If you want a positive example from Chrysler, I'd point to the old slant-six they used to put in the old Darts. Farking bulletproof engines.
 
2013-10-29 07:00:07 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: K-cars sucked-ass. If you want a positive example from Chrysler, I'd point to the old slant-six they used to put in the old Darts. Farking bulletproof engines.


Unless you were unlucky enough to have an aluminum 225 slant six . . .
 
2013-10-29 07:08:14 PM  
A long time ago, domestic vehicles were the more reliable option.  Then the imports started getting better, and the younger generation crowed about how only old fogeys bought domestic POS vehicles.  The old people were set in their ways, and they continued to buy domestic.

Many years later, the domestic vehicles caught up.  Now the old fogeys insist domestic is crap and swear by their imports.  No way will you change their mind.  This is nothing new.
 
2013-10-29 08:17:14 PM  

MrSteve007: pheelix: Your quote, along with the pic you posted. My assertion is that you made an apples to oranges comparison. However, if you'd like to provide some data backing YOUR assertion that Reliability across makes actually IS narrowing, by all means do so. Once again, because you don't seem to understand: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.


Funny, you don't show the 2011 data - which clearly shows a number of US brands plummeting in quality again - especially Ford. And interestingly, Toyota rising greatly in initial quality. Although Car & Driver has overall issues with trying to rank cars with the JD powers quality survey.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-trouble-with-jd-powers-init ia l-quality-study-feature#JDCHART


Funny, that has nothing to do with the assertion I was trying to make.
 
2013-10-29 08:22:32 PM  
pheelix:Your quote, along with the pic you posted.  My assertion is that you made an apples to oranges comparison.  However, if you'd like to provide some data backing YOUR assertion that Reliability across makes actually IS narrowing, by all means do so.  Once again, because you don't seem to understand: Initial quality and reliability are not the same thing.

I made my assertion, inferring that initial quality correlates with reliability, with a graph. Your position is "NO YOU".  I'm done, you're not discussing, you're just being obnoxious.
 
2013-10-29 08:28:02 PM  

verbaltoxin: 2010 seems to be the last year in which cars had plain knobs on things. I'm glad my Outback is from that year. Touchscreens are fine while I'm sitting still, but when I'm driving I don't want to press an icon, wait for something to load, and then have to find the menu option to change from FM to AUX.


This is the dash of my 2013 Ford Fiesta, losts and lots of buttons:

cdn.caradvice.com.au

I don't have any issues with the Sync package except that certain features are limited in Canada. Oh, and from time to time, my iPod Nano 7th gen decides it don't want to play nice, but I blame that on Apple vs. Microsoft's bullshiat. Actually, the 7th gen just likes to randomly cut out in general. It does it on my Onkyo receiver too.

My S3 has no issues pairing with the car. I haven't used the voice commands too often, but the few times I have, they've worked. I think half the issues people have is that they fail to RTFM, which says you need to practice voice recognition, and that some of the infotainment features are limited via speed (i.e., if you're going over x-speed, you can't have the car send a text message for you), background noise, and the types of devices you're pairing to it. My S3 is compatible with the text message to speech feature on the car, whereas my mother's Galaxy Nexus isn't. Thus, her 2013 Focus won't read her text messages to her.

Right now I'm renting a Fiat Sport while my Fiesta is in for repairs, due to some asshole teen rearending me. I'm not a huge fan of the Fiat for a wide variety of reasons (the main one being that I feel like I'm driving a farking golf cart with the noise and jerkiness in the city, and it sucks for checking blindspots), but one thing I did notice when I went to go plug my iPod in, the damn USB port doesn't even work on it. Apparently that's an issue with the majority of them because there's not enough power going to the USB. However, I'm not going to say the car sucks and is unreliable due to that.

I think it's stupid to give low marks to a vehicle just because people can't be arsed to learn how to use the infotainment systems properly. I've also read conflicting information on the Ford Sync system. Some people love it and have no issues, others are gearing up for a class action lawsuit because things aren't working as to how they expect them to. Most of it is first world problems.

Lunchlady: The problem I have with my Ford's sync is that when you plug in your Ipod you suddenly need to do everything through the car and can't just use the frigin scroll wheel.

Maybe I have an old Ipod but I feel like I shouldn't have to shout at the car's voice pickup so it understands I said "Beatles" instead of "Eagles."


I guess I don't have this problem because I just keep everything on shuffle, and if there's a song I don't like, I just press the skip button on the steering wheel. Much easier and safer than reaching over and blindly fumbling in order to hit the clickwheel (had a 4th gen Nano prior to the new one they came out with last year, battery's shot, so now it just stays in my alarm clock)/side button while keeping my eyes on the road in my 2004 Ford Focus. I had one of those radio transmitters that I docked in a cell phone holder on the dash, and from time to time, I'd get someone else's music as they had their radio set to the same station I had the transmitter. I was home visiting the family, and my brother was just leaving as I was pulling in. He ended up listening to my iPod in his old Taurus, while I had his Sirius transmitter coming through my car. Good times.
 
2013-10-29 10:19:01 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.


That's funny because I'll be replacing the 100K mile 307 in my '72 with a junkyard 6.0 LS this spring. I'll be looking for engines with ~150K on them. Just about everything on the 307 is worn out, not just rotted from sitting.

/apparently that's when the rings are loosened up just right for adding boost
//forward slashies for performance
 
2013-10-29 10:59:01 PM  
I work for a Chrysler dealership, and I own the 2013 Dodge Dart (SXT with the tech package). The sound system has some pretty cool stuff (like a volume adjuster that automatically increases the volume based on RPM to keep engine noise down) if you play around with it, but the user interface is bulky as crap.

It's very clearly designed by marketers to show off all the options rather than for maximum efficiency. Once I set things the way I liked and focused on one screen, the issue largely solved itself because I can do steering wheel controls and voice recognition to jump to new songs. That being said, the car itself is fun to drive and shows off that the Italians actually give a damn about building stuff (even if the primary motivation is to buy out the unions and pour 100% of the American profit to subsidize Fiat brands).

Chrysler did suck for a long time (Daimler didn't give a crap about anything other than luxury sedans and Cerberus focused on short term gutting and fancy warranty options, so I've heard). They've improved a lot in a very short period of time (especially on the back-end, for finance and organizational efficiency - where I work). Consumer Reports, for me, has never been a good voice of tech because if the judge is too dumb to use something properly, it loses points.
 
2013-10-29 11:03:31 PM  

Chevello: Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.

That's funny because I'll be replacing the 100K mile 307 in my '72 with a junkyard 6.0 LS this spring. I'll be looking for engines with ~150K on them. Just about everything on the 307 is worn out, not just rotted from sitting.

/apparently that's when the rings are loosened up just right for adding boost
//forward slashies for performance


You can get an LQ4 from a junkyard for well under 3 grand. That's what I'd look into...
 
2013-10-29 11:18:40 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Chevello: Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.

That's funny because I'll be replacing the 100K mile 307 in my '72 with a junkyard 6.0 LS this spring. I'll be looking for engines with ~150K on them. Just about everything on the 307 is worn out, not just rotted from sitting.

/apparently that's when the rings are loosened up just right for adding boost
//forward slashies for performance

You can get an LQ4 from a junkyard for well under 3 grand. That's what I'd look into...


When the tax return arrives, I'm on it. Either LKQ or car-part has 5.3s for as low as 400, and I've seen  6.0s for 800-1200. I'm sure the lower priced units come with less stuff, so I'll be looking higher to get a more complete setup. I've heard of them arriving complete with harness, gas pedal and computer for under 2K.
 
2013-10-29 11:44:33 PM  
I have a 2008 Toyota Yaris that I've gotten up to 279,621 miles without any work besides scheduled maintenance and occasional washes. (I had a two-hour commute for a while, long story.) It's the absolute base-trim, three-door, cheap-as-a-sneeze econobox, has manual locks and windows you actually roll up, and apart from having a back seat, daytime running lights and air bags it's the functional equivalent of my old first-gen Honda CRX. (I replaced the suspension with a sportier variant to make it a bit more fun, but other than that, it's stock.) 

And it works for me. Some ladies carry a .45 and some ladies carry a little .22 mousegun and both are very happy with their choices. I drive a mousecar. Another lady might like a big Ford saloon car or SUV, but a little import vehicle that seriously looks like you plug its' antenna into your laptop's USB slot and stick two giant AAs in its' belly to make it run works for me and I didn't have to replace all my tools with SAE ones when I bought the thing. Nobody will ever steal it for parts like you see with Hondas and nobody will ever challenge me to a drag race in it like you see with certain Fords.

When it dies, becomes impractical for my family size or my kid sister finally learns to drive, I will replace it with either a Prius C or a Honda Fit, I think. The Chevy Cruze just felt cheap and wobbly in the test drive and Fords are just so annoying for repairs. If I feel like driving something sporty, I rent a sports car for the weekend. If I need a huge cargo-hauler, I either use husband's van or rent a pickup. My ass is not special enough to merit anything fancier for the drive between home, work and grocery store, but I do like import engines because I am used to doing their maintenance. A domestic car would mean I'd have to relearn it all, and I simply can't be arsed until I see ten-year-old domestics in the mechanical condition and going for the prices of ten-year-old Asian makes.

That, and with what I've saved in gas, maintenance and initial price, I almost have enough for my first experimental light sport aircraft. Who gives a shiat if your commute car is boring if it means you can freakin' fly?!
 
2013-10-30 12:11:05 AM  

Chevello: Sin_City_Superhero: Chevello: Sin_City_Superhero: Back in the day, a smallblock Chevy engine had to be rebuilt after about 100,000 - 150,000 miles. The LS-style engines that GM has been using since the early 90's are just getting 'broken-in' at that point, and can easily last well over 250,000 before needing to be overhauled. When you factor in stuff like direct injection, constantly-variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, forced induction, water-methanol injection, and electronic tuning packages, the current crop of American engines are pretty damn good. They are capable of producing lots of power, while being much more environmentally friendly than in previous years.

It is a shame though, that the American auto manufacturers can't 'stick the landing' with the electronic gadgetry.

That's funny because I'll be replacing the 100K mile 307 in my '72 with a junkyard 6.0 LS this spring. I'll be looking for engines with ~150K on them. Just about everything on the 307 is worn out, not just rotted from sitting.

/apparently that's when the rings are loosened up just right for adding boost
//forward slashies for performance

You can get an LQ4 from a junkyard for well under 3 grand. That's what I'd look into...

When the tax return arrives, I'm on it. Either LKQ or car-part has 5.3s for as low as 400, and I've seen  6.0s for 800-1200. I'm sure the lower priced units come with less stuff, so I'll be looking higher to get a more complete setup. I've heard of them arriving complete with harness, gas pedal and computer for under 2K.


You will, most likely, need to re-flash the PCM. Factor in about $350 - $500 for that
 
2013-10-30 12:20:34 AM  

Prophet of Loss: Marcus Aurelius: Prophet of Loss: Parents bought a Chrysler 500. Six years on, its falling apart.

I bought a Chrysler 300 back in 2000.  Six years later it was costing $4k a year to keep on the road when the front windows fell out.

Think about that.  The front windows falling out of a car.  How bad does your build quality have to be for the windows to fall out of the car during normal use?

Meanwhile, I have a 10 year old Camry that has been through a fairly major accident but is still ticking along, mostly trouble free.


The car I had before the 300 was a 1991 Camry V6 in silver with matching trim and wheel flares.  0-60 in under 10 seconds!  I had 130,000 miles on it when things that made me want to kill my second ex-wife and dump her in a compost heap intervened.


Today an Acura is nice if you're under six feet tall.  Half the people I know are five ten or better.  And I'm six three.  So I go with the Infiniti G37.  Used, coming off lease.
 
2013-10-30 12:36:36 AM  
BohemianGraham: picture

I really don't get why car manufacturers don't have colored buttons. You're trying to distract the driver LESS, not  more.
/we're having the digital vs analog display argument in cars again, just formatted slightly different
 
2013-10-30 01:56:14 AM  

StrandedInAZ: My Nissan's Nav/Stereo system is a touch screen. There are no knobs, but there are a couple of buttons - I think for volume and to switch the Nav off and on. I hate it. When the sun hits it at certain angle (which happens a lot in AZ), I can barely even see the thing. I would have been perfectly content not to have this stereo, but there was some other option I wanted (maybe the sunroof?) that came packaged with it. I love my car, but I hate the system in it. I keep telling myself I need to replace the audio system with one I like, but I have a problem tossing out something I paid for that still works.

I hate that options are always packaged now. I know they do it because it'd be damn expensive to offer every single option by itself, but the packages they put together often make no sense. Just because you want one thing doesn't mean you'll necessarily want another. I had a Mazda a few years ago that required me to have leather seats if I wanted a V6 (don't know if they're still doing that). I live in the desert where it's crazy hot in the summer, and I hate leather seats. But I much preferred the V6 to the 4 cylinder when I test drove the car. So I got the V6 with the leather seats, which I regretted every time it was hot outside.


Much like the locking gas cap problem above, cloth car seat covers are available at many fine auto parts stores.
 
2013-10-30 09:05:53 AM  

Champion of the Sun: kregh99: What I keep hearing from US automakers is "We're just as good as Toyota/Nissan/etc."  What they don't get is that even if you're just as good, I still have zero motivation to switch.  What I want is "better than...", and a quantifiable, verifiable "better than," not just "we think we're just awesome and you should too!"

/ drives a Prius
// 145,000 miles and still runs like a champ
/// suck it GM

But haven't the domestics been routinely been beating imports for reliability and satisfaction for a decade? And it's mostly morons who are still occupying a 1990's mindset on this kind of thing? And whenever the imports beat out domestics, its mostly on stupid shiat like infotainment systems? And of course, they're still comparing luxury and basic badges from all makers like they're equivalent? Not you of course. 145,000 miles is super impressive. Most cars crap out around eight thousand or so.

/if someone could show how a corolla was #1 in America and ignore all the crashes to try to disprove my point, that'd be great.


There is also past history.  Every American car I have owned has been a piece of shiat.  Every japanese car I have owned has gone more than 100,000 just keeping it in gas and oil.

So why should I switch again?
 
2013-10-30 10:18:29 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I work for a Chrysler dealership, and I own the 2013 Dodge Dart (SXT with the tech package). The sound system has some pretty cool stuff (like a volume adjuster that automatically increases the volume based on RPM to keep engine noise down) if you play around with it, but the user interface is bulky as crap.

It's very clearly designed by marketers to show off all the options rather than for maximum efficiency. Once I set things the way I liked and focused on one screen, the issue largely solved itself because I can do steering wheel controls and voice recognition to jump to new songs. That being said, the car itself is fun to drive and shows off that the Italians actually give a damn about building stuff (even if the primary motivation is to buy out the unions and pour 100% of the American profit to subsidize Fiat brands).

Chrysler did suck for a long time (Daimler didn't give a crap about anything other than luxury sedans and Cerberus focused on short term gutting and fancy warranty options, so I've heard). They've improved a lot in a very short period of time (especially on the back-end, for finance and organizational efficiency - where I work). Consumer Reports, for me, has never been a good voice of tech because if the judge is too dumb to use something properly, it loses points.


Speed senstive volume control is new for Chrysler? My 2006, just above base model F150 has that.
 
Displayed 50 of 102 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report