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(The New York Times)   Paul Krugman, "Obamacare will be just fine. State exchanges are doing better than the federal, so clearly the federal system will work...eventually"   (nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, obamacare, federal system, Kansas City Life Insurance Company, political systems  
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707 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Oct 2013 at 12:47 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-28 11:52:19 AM  
And Republicans still dream of dismantling Medicare as we know it, instead giving seniors vouchers to buy private insurance. In effect, although they never say this, they want to convert Medicare into Obamacare.

I never realized this before. That's hilarious.
 
2013-10-28 12:18:33 PM  
No, the assault on Medicare is really about an ideology that is fundamentally hostile to the notion of the government helping people, and tries to make whatever help is given as limited and indirect as possible, restricting its scope and running it through private corporations.

They've become obvious about it, too. There's no style to evil anymore.
 
2013-10-28 12:34:06 PM  
heh. Eventually.

Dear Healthcare.gov:

i249.photobucket.com

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: And Republicans still dream of dismantling Medicare as we know it, instead giving seniors vouchers to buy private insurance. In effect, although they never say this, they want to convert Medicare into Obamacare.

I never realized this before. That's hilarious.


Obamacare is, after all, technically the brain child (or grand-child, I guess) of a conservative think tank.  They don't like to admit that, though.
 
2013-10-28 12:38:19 PM  
Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.
 
2013-10-28 12:40:47 PM  

SlothB77: People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.


And yet you never hear that about you.  A bit queer, isn't it?
 
2013-10-28 12:52:16 PM  

SlothB77: Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.


Yes, because so many ppl are unhappy with Medicare or Medicaid right?
 
2013-10-28 12:52:24 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: No, the assault on Medicare is really about an ideology that is fundamentally hostile to the notion of the government helping people, and tries to make whatever help is given as limited and indirect as possible, restricting its scope and running it through private corporations.

They've become obvious about it, too. There's no style to evil anymore.


To quote Bill Maher, they're talking to people who are too stupid for code words.
 
2013-10-28 12:52:56 PM  
Of course it's going to work.  With an infinite supply of money to make it work, and the ability to change the definition of what working is, it's going to work.
 
2013-10-28 12:54:18 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: SlothB77: People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

And yet you never hear that about you.  A bit queer, isn't it?


I knew I liked you S4B.
 
2013-10-28 12:55:02 PM  

xanadian: heh. Eventually.

Dear Healthcare.gov:

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: And Republicans still dream of dismantling Medicare as we know it, instead giving seniors vouchers to buy private insurance. In effect, although they never say this, they want to convert Medicare into Obamacare.

I never realized this before. That's hilarious.

Obamacare is, after all, technically the brain child (or grand-child, I guess) of a conservative think tank.  They don't like to admit that, though.


Plus the Heritage Fdn (said Think-tank) is now run by Jim DeMint and he is using a healthy chunk of their resources to fight the ACA. This has caused a massive internal riff with the founding members of the foundation. More evidence of the GOP cannibalism going around.
 
2013-10-28 12:55:08 PM  
Nice trolling with the Unlikely tag subby
 
2013-10-28 12:55:56 PM  

SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.


Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.
 
2013-10-28 12:57:27 PM  
Of course, we don't have to imagine such a system, because it already exists. It's called Medicare, it covers all Americans 65 and older, and it's enormously popular. So why didn't we just extend that system to cover everyone?
The proximate answer was politics:


I agree that the answer is politics, but not for the reasons he gives.  Selling single payer healthcare to the right in a way that would make them like it, is a political loser.  The point of politics now is to make the other side as pissed off as possible.  It's what plants crave.
 
2013-10-28 12:58:03 PM  
I don't think the question is "can the website be made to work"

The question is "will the problems with the website discourage enough of the young and healthy from enrolling to make the cost of insurance prohibitive"

And the answer is "probably not", since the young and healthy are *young*, and hence are familiar with software released before it is ready.

They'll just wait six months and get it on sale at Steam. Or sign up next year when the penalties increase
 
2013-10-28 12:58:07 PM  
Every time I hear about how bad the roll out of the health care website was I always think, "I guess none of the senate every tried to play Diablo 3 when it was released"

/That was a cluster fark.
 
2013-10-28 12:58:53 PM  

monoski: This has caused a massive internal riff with the founding members of the foundation.


Pretty sure that's how Zep got started.
 
2013-10-28 12:59:05 PM  
Massive, nation-wide program has problems with the rollout?

*here is my shocked face*

Massive, nation-wide program works the kinks out eventually and becomes a happy, well-accepted law of the land?

*here is my non-shocked face*
 
2013-10-28 12:59:10 PM  

FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.


Except for him being right like constantly
 
2013-10-28 01:01:17 PM  
Sorry, Paul Krugman, but over at Zerohedge.com, we're on to your shenanigans.  We're not fooled by your magic money printing press.  We've got all our money in gold.  Soros!
 
2013-10-28 01:01:29 PM  

Reverend J: Every time I hear about how bad the roll out of the health care website was I always think, "I guess none of the senate every tried to play Diablo 3 when it was released"

/That was a cluster fark.


But that was a game about Satan or something like that, so Jesus kept it from working... just like he's keeping Obamacare from destroying the world.

/not like SimCity, which always worked perfectly
 
2013-10-28 01:02:23 PM  
Slow enrollment is basically exactly what happened in Massachusetts  too. While I agree the website rollout has been a disaster, it's highly unlikely people would be signing up immediatly anyway. Because coverage doesn't start until January 1st, the only advantage early adopters get is they have it out of the way.

My concern would be, if the system is already buckling under stress, it's going to need to be a lot more resilient come mid December.
 
2013-10-28 01:03:37 PM  

FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.


[citation needed]
 
2013-10-28 01:06:44 PM  
Sure........if your state set up exchanges.
 
2013-10-28 01:07:26 PM  

CPennypacker: FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.

Except for him being right like constantly


lol.  Yep.  His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.
 
2013-10-28 01:08:15 PM  
I'm fine with them focusing on the website, it's a snipe hunt.
 
2013-10-28 01:08:36 PM  

SlothB77: Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.


No, the solution is to purge the country of stupid people.

//the block feature, though wonderful, still couldn't help you.
 
2013-10-28 01:09:29 PM  
Once again, a website it's not like a tv show or a film, each tv viewer does not place additional stress on the broadcast source.

Websites need time to be picked up by search engine crawlers and adjust to the way that changes traffic patterns. 100 million hits on day 1 of a website launch is at present technically impossible to withstand.

If you think the rollout of the healthcare.gov site was "botched" in any way, all that means it's that you don't understand how technology works.
 
2013-10-28 01:10:00 PM  

FLMountainMan: His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.


Careful.  You almost cited something there.
 
2013-10-28 01:10:21 PM  

WhackingDay: [citation needed]


FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.

 
2013-10-28 01:11:15 PM  

CPennypacker: FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.

Except for him being right like constantly



Ad hominem attacks aside, is anything he's saying in this article inaccurate in any way?  It seems pretty obvious to me that Republican ideology readily embraces "privatizing" medicare.   Honestly, if Republicans were actually trying to accomplish any coherent policy, it seems to me like a form of Obamacare covering everyone (including seniors) would be most consistent with Republican thought, because then they can claim that it's a "free market, competitive" system in which the government intervention is simply to foster competition, rather than a government run single payer system.   Honestly, what serious proposals, if any, have republicans put forward regarding health care policy?  And no, "repeal the ACA" is not a policy - it's just opposing the Dems' plan, and basically would have us return to the unsustainable and ever-more-expensive system we had in place before the ACA.

To clarify, I 100% agree with Krugman and view Obamacare as a first step towards single payer.  I think that single payer is really the only way to address the problems in our health care system and genuinely reign in costs.  So long as private insurance is running the show, the incentives are going to continue to be perverse.  My preference would have been to just expand medicare to cover everyone.
 
2013-10-28 01:12:30 PM  
UMMM, isn't the system designed so that the state exchanges handle the brunt of the work? I thought that was a part of the problem: too many states playing silly games with it all...
 
2013-10-28 01:15:06 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: FLMountainMan: His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.

Careful.  You almost cited something there.


Don't worry you're probably safe from that.
 
2013-10-28 01:15:08 PM  

JolobinSmokin: SlothB77: Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Yes, because so many ppl are unhappy with Medicare or Medicaid right?


Yup just so long as you keep that govmint outta my Medicare!
 
2013-10-28 01:16:03 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I'm fine with them focusing on the website, it's a snipe hunt.



Exactly.  The right wing is constantly overplaying their hand, and they're basically trying to get as much mileage out of this as possible.  I don't really think that it's going to convince anyone of the right wing talking point that the government "can't do anything right."  Especially since the right wing clearly doesn't believe that, because they are find with the government doing all sorts of extremely important things (i.e., running the military, the courts, the justice system, etc.)

The most ridiculous part of it is that the GOP is happy to do everything possible to try to cause the program to fail (for god's sake, they're running ads telling young people to NOT buy insurance!).  Then, if it's not working perfectly, scream and howl about how incompetent the government is.  I guess the biggest irony is that pretty much everyone agrees that congress (and the house in particular) is the most incompetent part of our government.
 
2013-10-28 01:18:07 PM  

SlothB77: Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.


Fewer moving parts = fewer things that could go wrong.
 
2013-10-28 01:19:55 PM  

SlothB77: Imagine, now, a much simpler system in which the government just pays your major medical expenses. In this hypothetical system you wouldn't have to shop for insurance, nor would you have to provide lots of personal details. The government would be your insurer, and you'd be covered automatically by virtue of being an American.

So the solution to the government screwing this up is to give the government more responsibility?


It might surprise you to learn we have precisely such a system in place, and that seniors are quite fond of it.
 
2013-10-28 01:20:41 PM  

FLMountainMan: CPennypacker: FLMountainMan: SlothB77:  People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

Who?  Most intelligent liberals like him as a cheerleader, but not as some keen sage or anything like that.  The Bush presidency really sent him over the edge.  He went from an articulate Keynesian to a man obsessed with pointing out Bush's idiocies on various (and plentiful) topics, most of which were both justified and non-economic.
I'm not sure he's ever recovered.  He brags about always being right with his predictions, yet is frequently wrong (as most people in his position will be, it's the nature of prognosticating), takes really petty potshots at people.  He's  just kind of silly now.

Except for him being right like constantly

lol.  Yep.  His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.


Can you show me on the doll where the mean old economist hurt you?
 
2013-10-28 01:22:03 PM  
Doesn't matter. Two years from now Obamacare may be running on all six cylinders, people may be deliriously happy with their insurance and the country may have moved to an all unicorn fart-based economy and we'll still be hearing about what a screw-up the ACA roll-out was and how this invalidates everything ever accomplished by Obama or any other Democrat. Once the repubs grab on to an issue they never let it go, no matter how absurd their position becomes.

Sad, really.
 
2013-10-28 01:23:17 PM  
what a dufus.
 
2013-10-28 01:23:41 PM  
www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
 
2013-10-28 01:23:57 PM  

FLMountainMan: His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.


He was right about the biggest macroeconomic trends:
1) The 2009 stimulus wasn't big enough to bring unemployment down to pre-recession levels.
2) Monetary easing by the Fed wouldn't contribute to above-normal inflation.
3) The stimulus & monetary easing wouldn't contribute to rising bond yields.
 
2013-10-28 01:24:41 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: SlothB77: People keep saying Paul Krugman is a smart man.

And yet you never hear that about you.  A bit queer, isn't it?


More than a bit queer I'd say.
Heehee...queer
 
2013-10-28 01:24:43 PM  
Well, this is the first time ever a big project had a rocky rollout, so clearly the only thing to do is declare it a complete failure and implement the Republican plan.

What was that plan, again?
 
2013-10-28 01:25:33 PM  
Paul Krugman told me to have the chicken. It was dry.
 
2013-10-28 01:26:48 PM  

CPennypacker: Soup4Bonnie: FLMountainMan: His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.

Careful.  You almost cited something there.

Don't worry you're probably safe from that.


Thou shalt not speak ill of Bonnie lest I smite ye with my butter knife like wit and interminable surliness
 
2013-10-28 01:26:59 PM  

Chummer45: Especially since the right wing clearly doesn't believe that, because they are find with the government doing all sorts of extremely important things (i.e., running the military, the courts, the justice system, etc.)


Except when you contract military services to well-heeled mercenary outfits, or pay judges to sentence minor infractions to your profit-per-person prison.
 
2013-10-28 01:27:08 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Well, this is the first time ever a big project had a rocky rollout, so clearly the only thing to do is declare it a complete failure and implement the Republican plan.

What was that plan, again?


Well you see, what they would like to do is get people insured by giving them vouchers to buy insurance. It goes without saying that this is nothing like subsidizing insurance, that's socialist lib shiat.
 
2013-10-28 01:27:48 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Well, this is the first time ever a big project had a rocky rollout, so clearly the only thing to do is declare it a complete failure and implement the Republican plan.

What was that plan, again?


People the republicans don't like (the poorer, browner and woman-ier the better!) line up and die while the republicans enjoy a rousing game of golf and cruising?
 
2013-10-28 01:27:52 PM  

skullkrusher: CPennypacker: Soup4Bonnie: FLMountainMan: His thoughts on the Great Recession were incredibly prescient in what wouldn't happen.

Careful.  You almost cited something there.

Don't worry you're probably safe from that.

Thou shalt not speak ill of Bonnie lest I smite ye with my butter knife like wit and interminable surliness


What did I say about Bonnie?
 
2013-10-28 01:28:18 PM  
christopherfountain.files.wordpress.com
 
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