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(CBS News)   Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Mich: These Europeans should know what's good for them, US and the NSA are good for them, we keep them safe. Because *USA*   (cbsnews.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, NSA, Europe, German law, Jeanne Shaheen, mass surveillance, bilateral relations, NSA spying, house intelligence committee  
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1290 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Oct 2013 at 9:47 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-27 07:11:30 PM  
Just like all those Europeans were supposed to be grateful for the KGB fighting against capitalists, right?
 
2013-10-27 07:40:36 PM  
C'mon Republicans, he's your boy.
 
2013-10-27 08:37:33 PM  
We will be greeted as liberators by the French.
 
2013-10-27 08:49:45 PM  
Nations spy on other nations. Welcome to the real world, NSA-haters.
 
2013-10-27 08:52:56 PM  
I think they're just pissed we didn't share all the info, since they have laws against their own governments doing stuff like that.
 
2013-10-27 09:49:27 PM  
You're not helping.
 
2013-10-27 09:52:42 PM  
Fact: There hasn't been a single war in European territory since the founding of America. THAT's change we can believe in.
 
2013-10-27 09:53:15 PM  
Ladies and gentlemen, the fundamental assumptions, critical thinking skills and diplomacy of the GOP.
 
2013-10-27 09:53:45 PM  
Huh... Matt Stone and Trey Parker really are prophets.

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-27 09:57:18 PM  
He is right.  Because of US military spending, those European countries can take money that would normally go toward defense and spend it on social programs.  Also because of the CIA and NSA those same European countries have had intelligence shared with them to help stop terror plots.

Is there a more diplomatic way of saying it?  Yes.  Is the conceit wrong?  No.
 
2013-10-27 09:57:54 PM  

clkeagle: Huh... Matt Stone and Trey Parker really are prophets.

[img.fark.net image 400x399]


Does that mean Baseketball is going to become a thing?
 
2013-10-27 10:02:34 PM  
The Germans are at least raising hell about this, the way Americans should be.
 
2013-10-27 10:02:53 PM  

sprgrss: He is right.  Because of US military spending, those European countries can take money that would normally go toward defense and spend it on social programs.  Also because of the CIA and NSA those same European countries have had intelligence shared with them to help stop terror plots.

Is there a more diplomatic way of saying it?  Yes.  Is the conceit wrong?  No.


Makes perfect sense. Spend trillions on spy networks to help our friends, so they can afford social programs while we cut ours. And if you even dare suggest cutting defense spending or maybe putting a little more into keeping people healthy, you're called a dirty communist anti-American scumbag.

So once again, we can fund aid for citizens of other nations, just not our own.
 
2013-10-27 10:06:43 PM  
I'm sorry, what exactly did people think the NSA did, anyways?

Everybody spies on everybody.

Companies spy on their competition.

Jealous spouses spy on each other.

Parents spy on their kids.

Nations spy on other nations and not just on their enemies.

All this political theater over this cellphone bugging revelation is pure farce and making the necessary noises.

That noted I hope this does make various intelligence services including the NSA reconsider their policies.
 
2013-10-27 10:07:32 PM  
If the Euros knew what the fark they were doin they wouldn't need us micromanaging their shiatty countries, so hey Euroland, suck less and we'll leave you alone, but since that ain't gonna happen, refer to us as Daddy from now on
and you libtrash that think Euroville is so great but secretly know it's shiatty, stop encouraging them
 
2013-10-27 10:07:42 PM  
The NSA did not bother to tell President Obama about everything they do and the leaders they spy on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24698142
Not accountable to anyone. Not even the President

/thanks Bush jr and Cheney. Now get to your prison cell in the World Courts, you rightwing shiat sticks.
 
2013-10-27 10:11:28 PM  
I wonder what his neighborhood is like?
 
2013-10-27 10:13:20 PM  
FFS, everyone has been spying on us, and we on them, for years.  Israel has been spying on us since their founding, and we may be their only friend left in the world.

Is it rude?  Yes.  Does everyone do it? Yes.  It's like going through a bathroom cabinet while at a party.
 
2013-10-27 10:13:41 PM  
If the French citizens knew exactly what that was about, they would be applauding and popping champagne corks

CHAMPAGNE?!? What are you, some kind of communist? It's "sparkling wine" you goddamn surrender monkey. Or better yet "Freedom Bubbly".
 
2013-10-27 10:14:23 PM  

mgshamster: clkeagle: Huh... Matt Stone and Trey Parker really are prophets.

[img.fark.net image 400x399]

Does that mean Baseketball is going to become a thing?


I would play and watch that.
 
2013-10-27 10:18:26 PM  

sheep snorter: The NSA did not bother to tell President Obama about everything they do and the leaders they spy on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24698142
Not accountable to anyone. Not even the President

/thanks Bush jr and Cheney. Now get to your prison cell in the World Courts, you rightwing shiat sticks.


Yeah, all this sounds reliable:

Gen Keith Alexander never discussed alleged operations involving Chancellor Angela Merkel, an NSA spokeswoman said.
German media say the US has been tapping the chancellor's phone since 2002, and Mr Obama was told in 2010.
The row has led to the worst diplomatic crisis between the two countries in living memory.
A report in German tabloid Bild am Sonntag claimed that Gen Alexander had told the president about the bugging himself.
An NSA source told the paper that Obama had not stopped the operation, and had wanted to know all about Mrs Merkel as "he did not trust her".

Where in all that, you America hating idiot, do you get a B-B-B-But Bush!
 
2013-10-27 10:19:06 PM  

sheep snorter: The NSA did not bother to tell President Obama about everything they do and the leaders they spy on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24698142
Not accountable to anyone. Not even the President

/thanks Bush jr and Cheney. Now get to your prison cell in the World Courts, you rightwing shiat sticks.


Allowing our former president and former vice president to be within personal jurisdiction of "world" courts would set a terrible precedent, even if we despise the individuals in question.
 
2013-10-27 10:19:11 PM  

mgshamster: clkeagle: Huh... Matt Stone and Trey Parker really are prophets.

[img.fark.net image 400x399]

Does that mean Baseketball is going to become a thing?


They already predicted Brokeback Mountain, minus the pudding eating.
 
2013-10-27 10:20:19 PM  
The most striking thing to me about this whole Angela Merkel thing is that her cell phone was so easy to listen in on.

/well that and Obama has presided over a surveillance state that would give Stalin pause
 
2013-10-27 10:22:07 PM  

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: The most striking thing to me about this whole Angela Merkel thing is that her cell phone was so easy to listen in on.


The whole thing sounds like horsehit to me, at least the way its been presented

I feel like we're missing a major part of the facts.
 
2013-10-27 10:23:53 PM  

falcon176: If the Euros knew what the fark they were doin they wouldn't need us micromanaging their shiatty countries, so hey Euroland, suck less and we'll leave you alone, but since that ain't gonna happen, refer to us as Daddy from now on
and you libtrash that think Euroville is so great but secretly know it's shiatty, stop encouraging them


1/10
 
2013-10-27 10:24:56 PM  
Yep, pretty sure this whole surveillance business started on 1/20/2009.

What is really funny is that the Bush administration STILL managed to bumble through diplomacy with their unprecedented intelligence apparatus.  I mean, the scope of this stuff is finally starting to take shape in the eyes of the public... but you know, Obama is near.
 
2013-10-27 10:26:44 PM  
Of course, we have to take Rogers at his word because all the facts to prove his case are classified and to release them would compromise national security.  Just trust us.  I call BS.
 
2013-10-27 10:27:47 PM  
Oh christ. This is my representative.

I swear to the unholy gods of the internet, I'd like to put this dipshiat in a box somewhere. If he doesn't say anything particularly stupid on the way in, I'll even add airholes.
 
2013-10-27 10:30:11 PM  

WTF Indeed: Nations spy on other nations. Welcome to the real world, NSA-haters.


Just about everyone masterbates and the generally agreed upon social convention is that you keep that shiat private. If you get caught doing it, especially at a friend's place, you might expect a variety of responses, many of them bad.

I view intelligence the same way; everyone does it but you keep that shiat on the down low.

Spying directly on an ally's head of state is so beyond the line it would be like finding your friend beating it off to pictures of your Mom in your bed. If you didn't call him out on it your girlfriend would leave you for being such a pushover and he'd probably keep wiping off on your pillow case.

/internal politics also exist in foreign lands
 
2013-10-27 10:32:21 PM  

Lsherm: FFS, everyone has been spying on us, and we on them, for years.  Israel has been spying on us since their founding, and we may be their only friend left in the world.

Is it rude?  Yes.  Does everyone do it? Yes.  It's like going through a bathroom cabinet while at a party.


Not years. It's more like centuries; millennia, even.
 
2013-10-27 10:35:15 PM  
So Mike Rogers thinks Europe should be grateful for being spied upon and Steve King went on MtP to insist that thousands of European folk had been saved from acts of terrorism by intel collected by American spies in those countries who tipped off authorities and shared intel?

Whatever truth there is to those viewpoints now is a really bad time to bring it up.

Unless you guys have some info that Angela Merkel is really a deep cover Al Qaeda operative. Cos that would be really something.

Well, at least Issa was nice enough to note on FtN that spying on Angela M was not "appropriate".

Jeanne Shaheen had the most correct assessment in that Snowden's revelations have put the US into serious damage control mode on the diplomatic front.
 
2013-10-27 10:35:21 PM  

fusillade762: I wonder what his neighborhood is like?


District 8 is a nicely-balanced republican red: high notes of rural stupidity with distinct monied undertones. And the bouquet, as you might expect, is redolent of a strong midwestern shiat.

/Rogers is my rep, the asshole.
 
2013-10-27 10:38:05 PM  
Don't the Dulles brothers have some crotch fruit who can remind these backwards tribalists of Amarica's Providence?
 
2013-10-27 10:40:14 PM  

sprgrss: He is right.  Because of US military spending, those European countries can take money that would normally go toward defense and spend it on social programs.


This argument has been crap since the cold war fizzled out, and was probably crap long before then.

The UK France and Germany all have huge military budgets. The UK's is the fourth highest in the world, France is sixth and Germany is ninth. If the US disappeared tomorrow it's doubtful anyone in the EU would need to spend any more on their militaries than they already do.
 
2013-10-27 10:45:52 PM  
Rep. Douchebags:  Please explain to the people of Germany how us listening in on their leader's phone calls keeps them safe.

I actually don't have a huge problem w/ what the NSA is doing overseas, but there's no reason to be a stupid bullshiattest about it.
 
2013-10-27 10:46:20 PM  
So if I'm understanding a lot of these posters in thread: everyone is a dirtbag, so let's be dirtbags to.


/is it to much to ask to aspire to something greater?
//something that cant be measured with dollar signs involved
 
2013-10-27 10:51:16 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Rep. Douchebags:  Please explain to the people of Germany how us listening in on their leader's phone calls keeps them safe.

I actually don't have a huge problem w/ what the NSA is doing overseas, but there's no reason to be a stupid bullshiattest about it.


Stupid as in...

Issa: "The question of whether or not...our key allies are being listened to is an easy one: No. We have an agreement not to do it,"

...kinda stupid?
 
2013-10-27 10:53:47 PM  

Gunther: sprgrss: He is right.  Because of US military spending, those European countries can take money that would normally go toward defense and spend it on social programs.

This argument has been crap since the cold war fizzled out, and was probably crap long before then.

The UK France and Germany all have huge military budgets. The UK's is the fourth highest in the world, France is sixth and Germany is ninth. If the US disappeared tomorrow it's doubtful anyone in the EU would need to spend any more on their militaries than they already do.


You didn't really say anything there.

Rankings by pure expenditure dollars is silly. It doesn't take into effect the only relevant variable when discussing if a country is spending "a lot". The percentage of their military expenditures to their GDP.

If you view them like that, we rank up there with Russia, Israel and a bunch of smaller nations or dusty 3rd world hell holes.

The large European nations (uk, germany, france) are all at or below the global average (somewhere around 2.5%).

Even if you did want to talk about pure dollar amounts, it's still laughable to mention rankings. Nato, all combined adds up to about a billion bucks. We (USA) make up about 750 million of that.

tl;dr?
WE SPEND TWICE THE GDP PERCENTAGE AS ANY OF THE NATIONS YOU LIST
AND IN PURE DOLLARS,  A FULL MAGNITUDE MORE THAN ANY ONE OF THEM


/And these stats don't even really show the full picture as much of our spending doesn't even fall into the budgeted pool.
 
2013-10-27 11:01:40 PM  

mgshamster: clkeagle: Huh... Matt Stone and Trey Parker really are prophets.

[img.fark.net image 400x399]

Does that mean Baseketball is going to become a thing?


Apart from the word "blern", that was complete nonsense.
 
2013-10-27 11:06:01 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-27 11:19:57 PM  

Gunther: If the US disappeared tomorrow it's doubtful anyone in the EU would need to spend any more on their militaries than they already do.


Wait, what?
 
2013-10-27 11:21:57 PM  
Um, no Mr. Rogers, things are not ok.

1. While someone MIGHT be able to make a reasoned argument for why we in 2002 we needed to tap the former spokesperson for the East German Government's phone... but surely, at some point between 2005 and 2009 we should have had some sense of who this woman is and what her political ideal were/are...

2. Given that the number of world leaders who had their phones hacked now stands at 35+ the damage to the United States is quite considerable.  Given the risk associated with this program and the hubris believing that no one would ever find out, this is a serious problem!

3. The fact that there is such a high profile program, which was able to be hacked by Mr. Snowden is the least of your worries.  Lack of judgement and certainly the appropriate level of protection are certainly problems.

There are certainly big problems at the NSA and to pretend otherwise is not doing anyone, least of all our country any favors.
 
2013-10-27 11:27:17 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Gunther: If the US disappeared tomorrow it's doubtful anyone in the EU would need to spend any more on their militaries than they already do.

Wait, what?


It's true. The major European military powers- the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain- have more than sufficient military capacity to see to their regional security needs, which are not non-existent but are minimal and rapidly decreasing, with enough left over for occasional interventions and peacekeeping further afield.
 
2013-10-27 11:34:12 PM  
Ya see, fascism is good for you, so shut up, sit down, and do as we say.
 
2013-10-27 11:38:36 PM  

MurphyMurphy: WE SPEND TWICE THE GDP PERCENTAGE AS ANY OF THE NATIONS YOU LIST
AND IN PURE DOLLARS,  A FULL MAGNITUDE MORE THAN ANY ONE OF THEM


Sure, we waste a lot of money. This is relevant to their security needs how, exactly?   Do you think France worries about Russia invading? They've got nuclear submarines with ICBMs, I don't think Putin's gonna risk it.

Churchill2004: NewportBarGuy: Gunther: If the US disappeared tomorrow it's doubtful anyone in the EU would need to spend any more on their militaries than they already do.

Wait, what?

It's true. The major European military powers- the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain- have more than sufficient military capacity to see to their regional security needs, which are not non-existent but are minimal and rapidly decreasing, with enough left over for occasional interventions and peacekeeping further afield.


Exactly. This idea that they owe us a debt because we spend absurd amounts on our military is utterly asinine. Who do people think we're protecting them from?
 
2013-10-27 11:38:44 PM  

WTF Indeed: Nations spy on other nations. Welcome to the real world, NSA-haters.


Well, aren't you the hard-bitten realist.
 
2013-10-27 11:43:30 PM  
Remember that our allies spy on us constantly, but in the technology/economic areas mainly. Might be useful to know what else they're spying on us.
 
2013-10-27 11:50:41 PM  
If your foreign intelligence agency doesn't have the highest ranking people across the world bugged, you might want to consider firing them for incompetence.

Say you're the head of the IT department in some big company. Company policy is to log, audit, and review permissions for everyone. Would you just let the CEO have root access to everything and not be logged or have his or her permissions set up to restrict access to things he shouldn't be fooling around with? I sure hope not.
 
2013-10-27 11:51:17 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Rep. Douchebags:  Please explain to the people of Germany how us listening in on their leader's phone calls keeps them safe.

I actually don't have a huge problem w/ what the NSA is doing overseas, but there's no reason to be a stupid bullshiattest about it.


Considering is the Executive branch of a Democratic President, how about you explain it?  Douchebag.
 
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