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(NBC News)   According to the IRS, the NFL is a "non-profit trade association" that "promotes" football. Some people have a problem with this   (nbcnews.com) divider line 31
    More: Asinine, IRS, NFL, trade association, football, United Way, March of Dimes, legal process, Jimmy Graham  
•       •       •

1564 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Oct 2013 at 3:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



31 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-27 02:20:10 PM  
What? They don't pay taxes on the income from my season tickets?

What? Because I'm not paying the NFL directly and the team I AM buying it from IS paying taxes on it?

The hell you say?!!
 
2013-10-27 02:30:03 PM  
And OCLC is a non-profit Library membership organization that maintains the database of records created by libraries, then takes our cataloging work and sells it back to us.  To the tune of billions over the years.  Every time someone questions that in court, they get the venue moved to Dublin, OH, where they are one of the largest employers, and get it heard before a friendly judge who suddenly finds himself coming into a little untraceable cash.

What's your point?

/Not that I'm bitter or anything...
 
2013-10-27 02:33:11 PM  

Donnchadha: What? They don't pay taxes on the income from my season tickets?

What? Because I'm not paying the NFL directly and the team I AM buying it from IS paying taxes on it?

The hell you say?!!


Yeah, can we please stop with this?  Anyone with sense has been rolling their eyes at the forced outrage.

Now, if you want to complain about how the teams use a bunch of bullshiat tactics to fleece the public for stadium funding, that's another story.  But the league office doesn't have an inherent source of revenue separate from the teams.
 
2013-10-27 03:18:37 PM  
Just waiting for the other cleat to drop, you mean?
 
2013-10-27 03:28:27 PM  
Typical 1%er business setup
 
2013-10-27 03:30:48 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: And OCLC is a non-profit Library membership organization that maintains the database of records created by libraries, then takes our cataloging work and sells it back to us.  To the tune of billions over the years.  Every time someone questions that in court, they get the venue moved to Dublin, OH, where they are one of the largest employers, and get it heard before a friendly judge who suddenly finds himself coming into a little untraceable cash.

What's your point?

/Not that I'm bitter or anything...


Most libraries, unlike football teams, are non-profit or government owned as well.

I would be more upset if worldcat went away than if football did, and I like football.
 
2013-10-27 03:50:23 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Donnchadha: What? They don't pay taxes on the income from my season tickets?

What? Because I'm not paying the NFL directly and the team I AM buying it from IS paying taxes on it?

The hell you say?!!

Yeah, can we please stop with this?  Anyone with sense has been rolling their eyes at the forced outrage.

Now, if you want to complain about how the teams use a bunch of bullshiat tactics to fleece the public for stadium funding, that's another story.  But the league office doesn't have an inherent source of revenue separate from the teams.


The league is clearly not a trade association. The do not function as one, the are not structured similar to one. I think every rational adult can agree it is a farce set up to avoid paying their share of taxes.

The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.
 
2013-10-27 03:56:31 PM  

Rozotorical: UNC_Samurai: Donnchadha: What? They don't pay taxes on the income from my season tickets?

What? Because I'm not paying the NFL directly and the team I AM buying it from IS paying taxes on it?

The hell you say?!!

Yeah, can we please stop with this?  Anyone with sense has been rolling their eyes at the forced outrage.

Now, if you want to complain about how the teams use a bunch of bullshiat tactics to fleece the public for stadium funding, that's another story.  But the league office doesn't have an inherent source of revenue separate from the teams.

The league is clearly not a trade association. The do not function as one, the are not structured similar to one. I think every rational adult can agree it is a farce set up to avoid paying their share of taxes.

The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.


I should also point out because of this tax exempt standing, the NFL league office is also fleecing our government by providing interest free stadium loans to teams as another way to avoid paying taxes. So when you say stadium funding is another story you would be wrong, it is part of the same story.
 
2013-10-27 04:07:06 PM  
The headline is wrong. The NFL is not a non-profit and they don't claim to be. This one aspect of the NFL, the front office, is bizarrely non-profit and that must change, but to say the NFL is tax exempt is ridiculous and detracts from the true atrocity.
 
2013-10-27 04:36:31 PM  
Corporations have a lot of money and can buy off congresspeople. This is new.
 
2013-10-27 04:47:04 PM  

Donnchadha: What? They don't pay taxes on the income from my season tickets?

What? Because I'm not paying the NFL directly and the team I AM buying it from IS paying taxes on it?

The hell you say?!!


Is it all that different from me paying your business for something and you paying taxes on that money, then you turning around and paying some other business for something and them paying taxes on that money?
 
2013-10-27 04:59:57 PM  
Folks,

The NFL is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorporated association.  31 of its 32 member clubs, on the other hand, are very much for-profit entities.  The revenues generated by the NFL, less league-wide operating expenses and reasonable reserves, are directed to the clubs - who are taxed on that revenue, same as any other business.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.
 
2013-10-27 05:37:30 PM  

mactheknife: Folks,

The NFL is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorporated association.  31 of its 32 member clubs, on the other hand, are very much for-profit entities.  The revenues generated by the NFL, less league-wide operating expenses and reasonable reserves, are directed to the clubs - who are taxed on that revenue, same as any other business.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.


They are set up as indviudal member clubs to avoid anti-trust laws, so the league office is then a separate entity and receives revenue from the member clubs but then doesn't want to pay taxes on that revenue. They simply want the best of both worlds with out any of the responsibility.
 
2013-10-27 05:38:18 PM  

ILostMyPassword: Benevolent Misanthrope: And OCLC is a non-profit Library membership organization that maintains the database of records created by libraries, then takes our cataloging work and sells it back to us.  To the tune of billions over the years.  Every time someone questions that in court, they get the venue moved to Dublin, OH, where they are one of the largest employers, and get it heard before a friendly judge who suddenly finds himself coming into a little untraceable cash.

What's your point?

/Not that I'm bitter or anything...

Most libraries, unlike football teams, are non-profit or government owned as well.

I would be more upset if worldcat went away than if football did, and I like football.


So would I, but I'd like OCLC to pay their own way and have to comply with fair business practices.  Like, not increasing clients' fees by 1100% (that's not a typo) for buying a competitor's product to replace another of their services.

OCLC is evil.  They're the only game in town (for now) but they're evil.
 
2013-10-27 06:55:28 PM  

Rozotorical: mactheknife: Folks,

The NFL is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorporated association.  31 of its 32 member clubs, on the other hand, are very much for-profit entities.  The revenues generated by the NFL, less league-wide operating expenses and reasonable reserves, are directed to the clubs - who are taxed on that revenue, same as any other business.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

They are set up as indviudal member clubs to avoid anti-trust laws, so the league office is then a separate entity and receives revenue from the member clubs but then doesn't want to pay taxes on that revenue. They simply want the best of both worlds with out any of the responsibility.


Every sports league in the world is set up such that the teams are individual organizations owned by whomever owns them...has nothing to do with antitrust laws.  Secondly, for-profit entities don't pay taxes on revenue, they pay them on profits.  The NFL (the entity itself) rarely makes a profit in the same sense that a for-profit entity would.  Even if they did, what would they do with the profit they are allegedly avoiding taxes on?  How would it benefit anyone seeing as how nobody owns the NFL itself?
 
2013-10-27 07:06:54 PM  

Cataholic: Even if they did, what would they do with the profit they are allegedly avoiding taxes on?  How would it benefit anyone seeing as how nobody owns the NFL itself?


Right, this is why this non-issue is so amusing. People get up in arms about it until you ask them who owns the NFL.
 
2013-10-27 07:23:25 PM  

Cataholic: Rozotorical: mactheknife: Folks,

The NFL is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorporated association.  31 of its 32 member clubs, on the other hand, are very much for-profit entities.  The revenues generated by the NFL, less league-wide operating expenses and reasonable reserves, are directed to the clubs - who are taxed on that revenue, same as any other business.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

They are set up as indviudal member clubs to avoid anti-trust laws, so the league office is then a separate entity and receives revenue from the member clubs but then doesn't want to pay taxes on that revenue. They simply want the best of both worlds with out any of the responsibility.

Every sports league in the world is set up such that the teams are individual organizations owned by whomever owns them...has nothing to do with antitrust laws.  Secondly, for-profit entities don't pay taxes on revenue, they pay them on profits.  The NFL (the entity itself) rarely makes a profit in the same sense that a for-profit entity would.  Even if they did, what would they do with the profit they are allegedly avoiding taxes on?  How would it benefit anyone seeing as how nobody owns the NFL itself?


 No not every sports league in the world is set up such that the teams are individual organizations owned by whomever owns them.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/031111NFLPAsuit.pdf

What was the result of that and previous suites?

The NFL head office does make a profit, they file as non-profit trade association.  One of the many things they do with the untaxed profit are offer no interest stadium loans to teams. You are confusing no one owning the NFL Head Office, and no one owning the NFL itself. Many people own a piece of the NFL pie.
 
2013-10-27 07:47:51 PM  
Rozotorical:
The NFL head office does make a profit, they file as non-profit trade association.  One of the many things they do with the untaxed profit are offer no interest stadium loans to teams. You are confusing no one owning the NFL Head Office, and no one owning the NFL itself. Many people own a piece of the NFL pie.

$255.3 million in revenue (almost all of it via annual dues paid by the teams) while it spent a total of $332.9 million

That's a net loss
 
2013-10-27 08:14:29 PM  
I'd be cool with raising the personal income rates on the 31 franchise owners. The Packers are different and should be taxed according to corporate guidelines
 
2013-10-27 08:15:46 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Rozotorical:
The NFL head office does make a profit, they file as non-profit trade association.  One of the many things they do with the untaxed profit are offer no interest stadium loans to teams. You are confusing no one owning the NFL Head Office, and no one owning the NFL itself. Many people own a piece of the NFL pie.

$255.3 million in revenue (almost all of it via annual dues paid by the teams) while it spent a total of $332.9 million

That's a net loss


Yeah, there'd be some real butt hurt if they found a way to get some sort of refundable tax credit.
 
2013-10-27 08:17:23 PM  

mactheknife: Folks,

The NFL is a tax exempt, non-profit, unincorporated association.  31 of its 32 member clubs, on the other hand, are very much for-profit entities.  The revenues generated by the NFL, less league-wide operating expenses and reasonable reserves, are directed to the clubs - who are taxed on that revenue, same as any other business.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.


Yep. That said the NFL is a cartel. It is designed specifically to manage competition - I mean the league controls team spending.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. The business of sports is unusual because the goal is never to put your opponents out of business. The Patriots may hate the Jets, but they don't want the Jets to fold. So the govt. looks the other way when it comes to anti-trust issues.

/of course, when it comes to competing leagues, anti-trust issues are still quite relevant.
 
2013-10-27 08:32:15 PM  
I thought Reggie White v NFL established that the NFL is not a confederacy of separate organizations, but rather a single entity with separate subdivisions.
 
2013-10-27 08:36:19 PM  

Rozotorical: The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.


It should be noted that the individual teams get to write off their "dues" as charitable donations.
 
2013-10-27 09:25:34 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Rozotorical: The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.

It should be noted that the individual teams get to write off their "dues" as charitable donations.


Noted where?  Because that isn't even remotely true.
 
2013-10-27 09:26:05 PM  

ilikeracecars: The headline is wrong. The NFL is not a non-profit and they don't claim to be. This one aspect of the NFL, the front office, is bizarrely non-profit and that must change, but to say the NFL is tax exempt is ridiculous and detracts from the true atrocity.


The front office  is the NFL.   Everything else is auxiliary and supporting services.

As a test...if you get rid of the NFL office, do you have a league?  NO.  If you get rid of any other part of football, nothing changes except the dollar flows.
 
2013-10-27 10:57:02 PM  

jgk3: ilikeracecars: The headline is wrong. The NFL is not a non-profit and they don't claim to be. This one aspect of the NFL, the front office, is bizarrely non-profit and that must change, but to say the NFL is tax exempt is ridiculous and detracts from the true atrocity.

The front office  is the NFL.   Everything else is auxiliary and supporting services.

As a test...if you get rid of the NFL office, do you have a league?  NO.  If you get rid of any other part of football, nothing changes except the dollar flows.


As soon as I read your comment I thought "the spice must flow"

It all makes sense now
 
2013-10-28 10:37:39 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Rozotorical: The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.

It should be noted that the individual teams get to write off their "dues" as charitable donations.


No.  But I'm sure they are listed on the books as a regular business expense, which they are.
 
2013-10-28 10:58:55 AM  
"This doesn't pass the basic fairness test," said the petition's author, Lynda Woolard.

Lynda, I've got news about the basic fairness test...
 
2013-10-28 11:08:31 AM  

Kygz: Lost Thought 00: Rozotorical: The revenue they receive from the teams is over 100 mill annually so they do not need another source of income.

It should be noted that the individual teams get to write off their "dues" as charitable donations.

No.  But I'm sure they are listed on the books as a regular business expense, which they are.


And which they should be, regardless of if the NFL is a non-profit or not.

They are professional association dues, and an ordinary and necessary business expense.
 
2013-10-28 12:54:06 PM  
We've got cities subsidizing stadiums then having TV blackouts so fans can't even see the games," Woolard said.

I'm gonna call "bullshiat" on this one. The NFL seldom has to black out games. MLB, on the other hand...
 
2013-10-28 01:18:25 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: We've got cities subsidizing stadiums then having TV blackouts so fans can't even see the games," Woolard said.

I'm gonna call "bullshiat" on this one. The NFL seldom has to black out games. MLB, on the other hand...



List of Blackouts in 2012
(please credit SportsFans.org for this research!)
Week 1
Tampa Bay (Carolina)
Week 3
San Diego (Atlanta)
Week 4
Tampa Bay (Washington)
Week 6
Tampa Bay (KC)
Week 10
Tampa Bay (San Diego)
Cincinnati (New York Giants)
Week 12
Tampa Bay (Atlanta)
San Diego (Baltimore)
Week 13
Oakland (Cleveland)
San Diego (Cincinnati)
Buffalo (Jacksonville)
Week 15
San Diego (Carolina)
Week 16
Tampa Bay (St. Louis)
Week 17
Buffalo (N.Y. Jets)

15 blacked out games in just 2012 alone. 2012 was down from 2011.
 
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