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(Daily Mail)   CDC: It's the end of the road for antibiotics, no substitute. EVERYBODY STAY HEALTHY   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 29
    More: Scary, bone marrow transplant, overuse of antibiotics, catheters, penicillins, antibacterials, antibiotics, microorganisms  
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7328 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Oct 2013 at 8:25 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-27 09:05:00 AM
6 votes:

Target Builder: Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.

It would also help if:

1. Antibiotics were restricted to more serious infections that would not clear up on their own.
2. People always completed their course of antibiotics.
3. Doctors, particularly in some other countries, refused to give patients antibiotics for non-bacterial infections because they are worried their patients will bad mouth then to other people for not doing enough to cure them of their sniffles.




4) they stopped using them as a growth additive to livestock feed.
2013-10-27 09:02:24 AM
6 votes:

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


It would also help if:

1. Antibiotics were restricted to more serious infections that would not clear up on their own.
2. People always completed their course of antibiotics.
3. Doctors, particularly in some other countries, refused to give patients antibiotics for non-bacterial infections because they are worried their patients will bad mouth then to other people for not doing enough to cure them of their sniffles.
2013-10-27 09:54:59 AM
3 votes:
Srinivasan added that pharmaceutical companies are at least partially to blame for this problem, saying that they have neglected the development of new and more sophisticated antibiotics that could keep up with bacterial resistance because 'there's not much money to be made' in this field.

It seems to me more and more that the purpose of humanity in the US is to make money for companies.  If you are not profitable - be you worker, patient, or Congressperson - then if it's at all possible, you will be culled from the herd and left to die in the wilderness.
2013-10-27 07:58:09 PM
2 votes:
According to Johns Hopkins, 80% of the antibiotics sold in the US are now used as food supplements for the animals we eat.  They recently released yet another study saying hey, this is bad, and Congress yet again did nothing.  I'd do a pun involving farms and pork but I don't have the heart for it today.

Report: Feeding antibiotics to livestock is bad for humans, but Congress won't stop it

The farm and pharmaceutical lobbies have blocked all meaningful efforts to reduce the use of antibiotics in raising livestock in the United States, a practice that contributes to an increasingly urgent public health risk, a study released Tuesday found.

Congress has killed every effort to restrict the feeding of farm animals the same antibiotics used in human medicine, the study says, even as antibiotics have grown less effective in treating infection. And regulation has gotten weaker under the Obama administration.

"Our worst fears were confirmed,'' said Bob Martin, executive director of the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future, which issued the report. The Food and Drug Administration's statistics, he said, show that as much as 80 percent of the antibiotics sold in this country are fed to food animals.
2013-10-27 09:36:38 AM
2 votes:

Gunther: So science us up a replacement, dammit.


I have a friend whose scientific specialty is finding novel ways to kill MRSA.  He spent the past year unemployed, because there isn't any interest in funding research into new ways to fight MRSA.  I mean, when people talk about wanting to fund scientists whose research is relevant and has a direct impact on people's health, it's tough to think of a better example.  The level of complacency is incomprehensible.
2013-10-27 09:26:23 AM
2 votes:
bmongar:

4) they stopped using them as a growth additive to livestock feed.

Oh yeah, that one has to be the worst. We're facing the possibility that even minor surgery will turn into Russian roulette and we're making it worse so we can have cheaper meat on our tables.
2013-10-27 07:43:01 AM
2 votes:
I think I'll watch the Frontline report rather than taking teh Dail Mails opinion on it.
2013-10-27 05:25:44 AM
2 votes:
media.tumblr.com
2013-10-28 09:33:15 AM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.


Misuse of penicillin could lead to the propagation of mutant forms of bacteria that will resist the new miracle drug.

- Alexander Fleming, penicillin discoverer, really shouldn't have been in medicine too
2013-10-28 05:16:41 AM
1 votes:

bk3k: Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.

People take typical illnesses way too seriously; it's too inconvenient for them or too scary that their bodies are acting in abnormal ways. They also ignore that their body needs time to rest, as their stressful lives leave them predisposed to illness anyway! Natural laws of life cannot be thwarted indefinitely, and the payoff is never worth it.

Stay just a little sick, yall. Let your body work its magic.

In truth there is merit to your madness.  Constant exposure to bacteria keeps your immune system on guard all the time.  Babies instinctively do things that expose them to bacteria for precisely this reason.  But it has been shown that those raised in overly sanitized homes develop far more allergies etc.

If one thinks of the immune system as they would a muscle, what he said makes more sense.


The other problem you can run into though is the same one you get if you're stressed for prolonged periods of time; you initially get a spike in your immune system response, but after a day or it drops back to normal and keeps dropping to sub-optimal levels, so you can end up getting sicker.

Besides, it's still a good idea to maintain basic hygiene. All it takes is one persistent or antibiotic-resistant infection to take hold and you're on the road to potential amputation.
2013-10-28 04:25:08 AM
1 votes:

Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.

People take typical illnesses way too seriously; it's too inconvenient for them or too scary that their bodies are acting in abnormal ways. They also ignore that their body needs time to rest, as their stressful lives leave them predisposed to illness anyway! Natural laws of life cannot be thwarted indefinitely, and the payoff is never worth it.

Stay just a little sick, yall. Let your body work its magic.


In truth there is merit to your madness.  Constant exposure to bacteria keeps your immune system on guard all the time.  Babies instinctively do things that expose them to bacteria for precisely this reason.  But it has been shown that those raised in overly sanitized homes develop far more allergies etc.

If one thinks of the immune system as they would a muscle, what he said makes more sense.
2013-10-28 02:07:12 AM
1 votes:

Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.


Holy crap, you are full of terrible advice. And probably toxoplasmosis.
2013-10-27 09:06:57 PM
1 votes:

Lsherm: My father-in-law is a retired USAMRIID biochemist and he was on the panel that recommended that smallpox vaccines should stop being applied to US citizens back in the 70's, or whenever they stopped.  After the post 9/11 antrax scare, we were talking about smallpox and I asked him why they voted to stop the vaccines, and he said they would have killed more people with the vaccine than could have possibly been infected by the virus.

Short term thinking always seems to result in stupid decisions.  Although he doesn't see it as such, we're all a smallpox outbreak away because we don't get vaccinated for it.  The military does, but the general public doesn't.


Are you arguing for wide spread smallpox vaccinations? The risk of fatality is worth it with polio vaccines or MMR because it's an extremely small number and that risk is worth the benefit. Smallpox doesn't exist in the wild. There's zero reason to vaccinate people for it outside of specific military precautions.

And if an outbreak did occur at least in the US we could ramp up widescale vaccinations pretty farking quickly.

In the scheme of bad things to be worried about, this is pretty low on the list.
2013-10-27 07:51:22 PM
1 votes:

omeganuepsilon: HempHead: AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.

Tell that to the millions of people who have it and know they're going to die.  I'm sure it will comfort them.




I'm pretty sure that they realize they got AIDS from sharing a needle, blood transfusion, or unprotected sex and not from someone sneezing 30 feet away.
2013-10-27 06:22:24 PM
1 votes:
Lets keep allowing the USDA to put non-therapeutic doses of human antibiotics into animal feed.
2013-10-27 02:18:25 PM
1 votes:
omeganuepsilon: legislate population density, controlled breeding

Yes.
2013-10-27 01:39:49 PM
1 votes:
YAWN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy
Has been waiting for this day since the 30's. Time to crack open the russian and georgian studies.
2013-10-27 01:18:10 PM
1 votes:
Ah, it's the semi-annual be-afraid on this subject.

Srinivasan added that pharmaceutical companies are at least partially to blame for this problem, saying that they have neglected the development of new and more sophisticated antibiotics that could keep up with bacterial resistance because 'there's not much money to be made' in this field.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the first society with a serious, widespread problem because at the point at which the question becomes profit versus immediate survival of the species, it may finally provide the impetus we need to stop putting corporations and business at the center of our lives.
2013-10-27 11:13:00 AM
1 votes:
I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.
2013-10-27 11:07:10 AM
1 votes:
It's amazing that in this country (the US) it is harder for a doctor to prescribe even mild opiates, yet they hand out powerful modern antibiotics like they were Halloween candy.  I mean, I know that's because we all have to be protected from anything 'narcotic' even when it's for legit medial reasons.  The fact that antibiotics have relatively few side effects seems to have created a culture of "toss some it, it can't hurt" so we start using them as prophylactics for everything, down to and including just shooting them into our meat "just in case".

So yeah as some people unthread have pointed out, we've used this trick so often that nature is getting wise to us.  Phages are cool, and at least they attack from a different direction as it were, but only the Soviets ever did serious work on them, and from what I understand they have to be specifically tailored to certain infections.  Our only other options though seem to be limited.   Better sanitation everywhere does help.  There is no such thing as a bacteria resistant to alcohol or bleach.  Otherwise it's back to the riskier, crazier treatments.  Pretty soon we'll have to start giving people malaria to treat syphilis again.

/yes, people did that
//the malarial fever killed the syphilis
//then quinine could treat the malaria
///pass me a gin and tonic?
2013-10-27 11:06:52 AM
1 votes:

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


There are other ways to skin that cat.  I work closely with a team that is making some novel tryptophan biosynthetic pathway inhibitors that are performing really well in assays so far.  Since humans don't produce their own tryptophan, it shouldn't cause issues.  Obviously Murphy's law might throw a wrench into that idea, but at this point it looks good.
2013-10-27 11:02:03 AM
1 votes:

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


No medical professional here, but Norway has seen great success with this approach.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100106/NEWS03/701069926  (There are better articles out there, but this was the best I could find right now.)

It would certainly cause discomfort, and we'd have to stop putting antibiotics in everything and animal feed. Which means it's never going to happen and countless pointless deaths will occur, because we're idiots.
2013-10-27 10:20:21 AM
1 votes:

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


Yes it would work but the bug would adapt faster on the second go around than the first because there would probably be some latent resistant genes that survived in some colonies. That said I think they are giving that idea a go.
2013-10-27 10:07:49 AM
1 votes:

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.




It depends on the antibiotic (or other antibiotics being used) and the effect carrying a resistance allele has on the bug, but generally yes. Resistance usually evolves by changing an ion channel, or the cell walls / membranes, or how things are sequestered within the cell, usually at a cost to the organism absent antibiotics.
2013-10-27 10:05:45 AM
1 votes:

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


My guess, and I am not an expert, is that the non-resistant bacteria would reproduce, as would the resistant ones, and it would be a mixture of both, so it would probably do some good.
2013-10-27 09:52:34 AM
1 votes:
Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.
2013-10-27 09:48:59 AM
1 votes:
On the plus side - this should lower health care costs significantly in the long run.
2013-10-27 06:53:59 AM
1 votes:

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


  Bacteriophages with frickin' laser beams.
2013-10-27 06:32:08 AM
1 votes:
They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.
 
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