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(Daily Mail)   CDC: It's the end of the road for antibiotics, no substitute. EVERYBODY STAY HEALTHY   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 80
    More: Scary, bone marrow transplant, overuse of antibiotics, catheters, penicillins, antibacterials, antibiotics, microorganisms  
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7334 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Oct 2013 at 8:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



80 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-27 05:25:44 AM  
media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-27 06:32:08 AM  
They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.
 
2013-10-27 06:53:59 AM  

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


  Bacteriophages with frickin' laser beams.
 
2013-10-27 07:43:01 AM  
I think I'll watch the Frontline report rather than taking teh Dail Mails opinion on it.
 
2013-10-27 07:49:38 AM  
I'm sure the free market will come up with a solution.
 
2013-10-27 08:35:19 AM  
I hope Dr. Jenny McCarthy will weigh in on this. She may be our only hope.
 
2013-10-27 08:41:38 AM  
Silly CDC doctor. He seems unaware of the large selection of anti-bacterial soaps and cleaning products available on store shelves.
 
2013-10-27 08:45:51 AM  
So science us up a replacement, dammit.

I seem to remember hearing promising things about genetically engineered bacteriophages a year or two back, whatever happened to those?
 
2013-10-27 08:49:00 AM  
Try new Nanites brand antibiotics!

They kill pesky bugs and repair the effects of aging.

(Nanites should be used only as directed. Some people experience mutation, gigantism, additional limb syndrome, or loss of soul.)
 
2013-10-27 08:53:52 AM  
Rub some dirt on your spleen
 
2013-10-27 09:02:24 AM  

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


It would also help if:

1. Antibiotics were restricted to more serious infections that would not clear up on their own.
2. People always completed their course of antibiotics.
3. Doctors, particularly in some other countries, refused to give patients antibiotics for non-bacterial infections because they are worried their patients will bad mouth then to other people for not doing enough to cure them of their sniffles.
 
2013-10-27 09:05:00 AM  

Target Builder: Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.

It would also help if:

1. Antibiotics were restricted to more serious infections that would not clear up on their own.
2. People always completed their course of antibiotics.
3. Doctors, particularly in some other countries, refused to give patients antibiotics for non-bacterial infections because they are worried their patients will bad mouth then to other people for not doing enough to cure them of their sniffles.




4) they stopped using them as a growth additive to livestock feed.
 
2013-10-27 09:07:01 AM  

SpdrJay: Try new Nanites brand antibiotics!

They kill pesky bugs and repair the effects of aging.

(Nanites should be used only as directed. Some people experience mutation, gigantism, additional limb syndrome, or loss of soul.)




They're also known to do hair really poorly. images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-10-27 09:09:36 AM  
We should all move to Madagascar!
 
2013-10-27 09:14:33 AM  

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


3d printed nanobots are right around the corner. I read it on cnn.
 
2013-10-27 09:26:23 AM  
bmongar:

4) they stopped using them as a growth additive to livestock feed.

Oh yeah, that one has to be the worst. We're facing the possibility that even minor surgery will turn into Russian roulette and we're making it worse so we can have cheaper meat on our tables.
 
2013-10-27 09:36:38 AM  

Gunther: So science us up a replacement, dammit.


I have a friend whose scientific specialty is finding novel ways to kill MRSA.  He spent the past year unemployed, because there isn't any interest in funding research into new ways to fight MRSA.  I mean, when people talk about wanting to fund scientists whose research is relevant and has a direct impact on people's health, it's tough to think of a better example.  The level of complacency is incomprehensible.
 
2013-10-27 09:37:51 AM  
But, but, but.....the governments tightly control who can prescribe antibiotics.  They've placed laws on them so that a regular, intelligent, person who is sick *can't* decide if they should get antibiotics or not.  All this for the greater good.

And now you are telling me that the same doctor's who are supposed to be smart enough to know better, have completely failed in their task?  That they will happily give people a prescription, because they know that people want them?  Wonderful.
 
2013-10-27 09:48:59 AM  
On the plus side - this should lower health care costs significantly in the long run.
 
2013-10-27 09:52:34 AM  
Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.
 
2013-10-27 09:54:59 AM  
Srinivasan added that pharmaceutical companies are at least partially to blame for this problem, saying that they have neglected the development of new and more sophisticated antibiotics that could keep up with bacterial resistance because 'there's not much money to be made' in this field.

It seems to me more and more that the purpose of humanity in the US is to make money for companies.  If you are not profitable - be you worker, patient, or Congressperson - then if it's at all possible, you will be culled from the herd and left to die in the wilderness.
 
2013-10-27 09:58:55 AM  
In hindsight, we screwed up the War on Drugs. We made it hard to prescribe things people wanted and easy to prescribe antibiotics. But were there any doomsayers predicting resistance back in the day?
 
2013-10-27 10:05:45 AM  

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


My guess, and I am not an expert, is that the non-resistant bacteria would reproduce, as would the resistant ones, and it would be a mixture of both, so it would probably do some good.
 
2013-10-27 10:07:49 AM  

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.




It depends on the antibiotic (or other antibiotics being used) and the effect carrying a resistance allele has on the bug, but generally yes. Resistance usually evolves by changing an ion channel, or the cell walls / membranes, or how things are sequestered within the cell, usually at a cost to the organism absent antibiotics.
 
2013-10-27 10:14:33 AM  
I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.
 
2013-10-27 10:20:21 AM  

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


Yes it would work but the bug would adapt faster on the second go around than the first because there would probably be some latent resistant genes that survived in some colonies. That said I think they are giving that idea a go.
 
2013-10-27 10:23:10 AM  

born_yesterday: Gunther: So science us up a replacement, dammit.

I have a friend whose scientific specialty is finding novel ways to kill MRSA.  He spent the past year unemployed, because there isn't any interest in funding research into new ways to fight MRSA.  I mean, when people talk about wanting to fund scientists whose research is relevant and has a direct impact on people's health, it's tough to think of a better example.  The level of complacency is incomprehensible.


It's a shiat time to be looking for work in either government or government-supported research right now. The sequester has caused a near freeze on hiring and destroyed grant approval rates.Your friend might just be feeling the effects of that.The NIH has most assuredly taken an interest in treatments and responses to antibiotic resistant infections, but trying to get hired in that field right now is going to suck no matter what.
 
2013-10-27 10:24:19 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: Bacteriophages with frickin' laser beams.


^ This.  In fact, they don't even need laser beams.
 
2013-10-27 10:26:46 AM  

omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.


Fact: If someone tells you not to stick your hand in the fire because it will burn you, it is because he hates fire and thinks that it was a mistake to ever start eating cooked food.
 
2013-10-27 10:44:43 AM  

mrlewish: Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.

Yes it would work but the bug would adapt faster on the second go around than the first because there would probably be some latent resistant genes that survived in some colonies. That said I think they are giving that idea a go.


In the past at least, doctors have periodically changed the recommended antibiotic to use for just that reason. But everybody has to do it for it to work.

Evolutionarily, the resistance elements have a fitness cost that is overcome by the selective advantage of surviving the antibiotic, so the resistant strains will eventually lose the plasmid if the advantage is taken away. This could work, but it would take a while.
 
2013-10-27 11:02:03 AM  

Target Builder: Question for Medical professional types:

If an antibiotic was removed from service worldwide for, say, 10 years, would bacteria lose their resistance to it? I'm wondering because that would be tens of thousands of generations without exposure to the antibiotic.


No medical professional here, but Norway has seen great success with this approach.

http://www.omaha.com/article/20100106/NEWS03/701069926  (There are better articles out there, but this was the best I could find right now.)

It would certainly cause discomfort, and we'd have to stop putting antibiotics in everything and animal feed. Which means it's never going to happen and countless pointless deaths will occur, because we're idiots.
 
2013-10-27 11:06:52 AM  

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


There are other ways to skin that cat.  I work closely with a team that is making some novel tryptophan biosynthetic pathway inhibitors that are performing really well in assays so far.  Since humans don't produce their own tryptophan, it shouldn't cause issues.  Obviously Murphy's law might throw a wrench into that idea, but at this point it looks good.
 
2013-10-27 11:07:10 AM  
It's amazing that in this country (the US) it is harder for a doctor to prescribe even mild opiates, yet they hand out powerful modern antibiotics like they were Halloween candy.  I mean, I know that's because we all have to be protected from anything 'narcotic' even when it's for legit medial reasons.  The fact that antibiotics have relatively few side effects seems to have created a culture of "toss some it, it can't hurt" so we start using them as prophylactics for everything, down to and including just shooting them into our meat "just in case".

So yeah as some people unthread have pointed out, we've used this trick so often that nature is getting wise to us.  Phages are cool, and at least they attack from a different direction as it were, but only the Soviets ever did serious work on them, and from what I understand they have to be specifically tailored to certain infections.  Our only other options though seem to be limited.   Better sanitation everywhere does help.  There is no such thing as a bacteria resistant to alcohol or bleach.  Otherwise it's back to the riskier, crazier treatments.  Pretty soon we'll have to start giving people malaria to treat syphilis again.

/yes, people did that
//the malarial fever killed the syphilis
//then quinine could treat the malaria
///pass me a gin and tonic?
 
2013-10-27 11:13:00 AM  
I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.
 
2013-10-27 11:21:28 AM  

foo monkey: I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.


TMI dude.


born_yesterday: Gunther: So science us up a replacement, dammit.

I have a friend whose scientific specialty is finding novel ways to kill MRSA.  He spent the past year unemployed, because there isn't any interest in funding research into new ways to fight MRSA.  I mean, when people talk about wanting to fund scientists whose research is relevant and has a direct impact on people's health, it's tough to think of a better example.  The level of complacency is incomprehensible.



He should send a resume to the Bucs.
 
2013-10-27 11:22:54 AM  
Obviously we should stoop using medication and go back to prayer and snake-handling.
 
2013-10-27 11:53:49 AM  
Can't we just equip the members of Obama death panels with flamethrowers so they can burn away people infected with superbugs? Or people suspected of carrying superbugs. I think I saw Ted Cruz sneezing the other day.
 
2013-10-27 12:03:03 PM  

foo monkey: I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.


Now farkied as "Puss Balls".  I hope you're pleased with yourself.
 
2013-10-27 12:37:19 PM  

unyon: foo monkey: I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.

Now farkied as "Puss Balls".  I hope you're pleased with yourself.


I had a second one on my buttcrack. Went to an infectious disease specialist and did a full body detox. Hibicleanse and antibiotic ointment in my nose. Clean for two years. Yay for NYC subways!!
 
2013-10-27 12:51:46 PM  
About 25 years without any kind of infection, and 20 without any kind of cold.

So far so good, subby.
 
2013-10-27 12:56:58 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.

not every sickness needs an antibiotic.
only germophobes think that is the case.


Many do.  Your point?  It's not a case where some cases contribute to resistance, they ALL do.

thurstonxhowell: omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.

Fact: If someone tells you not to stick your hand in the fire because it will burn you, it is because he hates fire and thinks that it was a mistake to ever start eating cooked food.


non sequitur
/and borderline lunacy
See above.  Raising resistances by use of antibiotics is inevitable, hell, it's inevitable without artificiial antibiotics, we produce them ourselves.

Yes, we could try to focus on shifting their use to more needful cases, lower the potential impact, but it will never eradicate the risk because they are virtually required in many sicknesses.

Fact:  There are many sicknesses where they do still work.  What do we do, let the illnesses run rampant? Let those people suffer and the generational mutations increase exponentially?

We're affecting natural selection, yes, but we're also impacting the natural progression. Here's the thing, on a global scale, microbiotics have a viturally infinite supply of resources.  By killing those which we can, we're not making it more favorable for the other more stronger strains, they do not compete any more than you compete with me or some random guy in Zimbabwe or Belgium in whether or not we get to masturbate this evening.

Outbreaks that do occur, whether we have useful antibiotics or not, their primary cause is close human proximity borne of overcrowding.

You morons, cousins of Jenny McArthy, seem to fear modern medicine as if its creating a superbug.  The irony is, if it weren't for modern medicines, we'd already be experiencing many more superbugs within our own lifetimes.

Look at things like HIV/AIDS.  Although viral, pretty damned resilient and contagious without man's influence.

Look at the great plagues of the recorded past.  Something mankind can hardly deal with on the local level. These things have occurred and had nothing to do with antibiotics.

I say, let science do what it can, when and if it fails, we can cry a moment and then move on.  What else can we do, legislate population density, controlled breeding?  Sit around and spread gloom and doom predictions that eerily resemble the more queer conspiracy stories out there.  Yeah, you people sure have your heads screwed on straight.
 
2013-10-27 01:18:10 PM  
Ah, it's the semi-annual be-afraid on this subject.

Srinivasan added that pharmaceutical companies are at least partially to blame for this problem, saying that they have neglected the development of new and more sophisticated antibiotics that could keep up with bacterial resistance because 'there's not much money to be made' in this field.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to the first society with a serious, widespread problem because at the point at which the question becomes profit versus immediate survival of the species, it may finally provide the impetus we need to stop putting corporations and business at the center of our lives.
 
2013-10-27 01:26:42 PM  
subcutaneous polymer matrix release systems to ensure compliance. duh.
 
2013-10-27 01:39:49 PM  
YAWN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy
Has been waiting for this day since the 30's. Time to crack open the russian and georgian studies.
 
2013-10-27 01:40:55 PM  

CPT Ethanolic: Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.

  Bacteriophages with frickin' laser beams.


GOD DAMN YOU ... I knew I should have looked before posting.
What's old is new again.
Phages will come back and do a BETTER job.
FFS they are the only working treatment for a number of things already.
 
2013-10-27 02:18:25 PM  
omeganuepsilon: legislate population density, controlled breeding

Yes.
 
2013-10-27 03:39:45 PM  

omeganuepsilon: HindiDiscoMonster: omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.

not every sickness needs an antibiotic.
only germophobes think that is the case.

Many do.  Your point?  It's not a case where some cases contribute to resistance, they ALL do.

thurstonxhowell: omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.

Fact: If someone tells you not to stick your hand in the fire because it will burn you, it is because he hates fire and thinks that it was a mistake to ever start eating cooked food.

non sequitur
/and borderline lunacy
See above.  Raising resistances by use of antibiotics is inevitable, hell, it's inevitable without artificiial antibiotics, we produce them ourselves.

Yes, we could try to focus on shifting their use to more needful cases, lower the potential impact, but it will never eradicate the risk because they are virtually required in many sicknesses.

Fact:  There are many sicknesses where they do still work.  What do we do, let the illnesses run rampant? Let those people suffer and the generational mutations increase exponentially?

We're affecting natural selection, yes, but we're also impacting the natural progression. Here's the thing, on a global scale, microbiotics have a viturally infinite supply of resources.  By killing those which we can, we're not making it more favorable for the other more stronger strains, they do not compete any more than you compete with me or some random guy in Zimbabwe or Belgium in whether or not we get to masturbate this evening.

Outbreaks tha ...




AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.
 
2013-10-27 04:36:29 PM  

foo monkey: unyon: foo monkey: I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.

Now farkied as "Puss Balls".  I hope you're pleased with yourself.

I had a second one on my buttcrack. Went to an infectious disease specialist and did a full body detox. Hibicleanse and antibiotic ointment in my nose. Clean for two years. Yay for NYC subways!!


I had an infected hair follicle right in my inner thigh, right where it meets the groin, so I feel your pain. Those things are nasty little mega-zits. The doc gave me some sulfa drugs and hibicleanse to clear it up.
 
2013-10-27 05:28:14 PM  
I blame people getting antibiotics in Mexico and using them when they have colds.
 
2013-10-27 05:55:28 PM  
Good luck suckers! I still have boxes of cipro, duct tape, and plastic sheeting from the '00s.

/should've listened to Ashcroft when you had the chance.
 
2013-10-27 06:22:24 PM  
Lets keep allowing the USDA to put non-therapeutic doses of human antibiotics into animal feed.
 
2013-10-27 06:41:00 PM  

potterydove: Lets keep allowing the USDA to put non-therapeutic doses of human antibiotics into animal feed.


WORSE
we let animals eat human grains!!!
 
2013-10-27 06:44:07 PM  
Phages have the same problem that antibiotics do, but with two replicating species instead of one.

A bacteria that can survive the phages is selected for.  A phage that doesn't completely wipe out the bacteria (but allows some to propagate) is selected for.  Bacteria do have pseudo-immune systems (CRISPR is the most recent I've read about).

Additionally, phages contain the genetic information necessary to generate newly selected-for copies of themselves.  So now one person uses phages and there happens to be a replicant that avoids killing all the bacteria.  That phage can spread through the world like any infection, while antibiotics would be stopped short--no way to self-replicate.

I'm not necessarily against using them, and I think they do show promise, but there is a reason we prefer conventional antibiotics to phages.
 
2013-10-27 06:46:43 PM  

HempHead: AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.


Tell that to the millions of people who have it and know they're going to die.  I'm sure it will comfort them.
 
2013-10-27 07:51:22 PM  

omeganuepsilon: HempHead: AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.

Tell that to the millions of people who have it and know they're going to die.  I'm sure it will comfort them.




I'm pretty sure that they realize they got AIDS from sharing a needle, blood transfusion, or unprotected sex and not from someone sneezing 30 feet away.
 
2013-10-27 07:58:09 PM  
According to Johns Hopkins, 80% of the antibiotics sold in the US are now used as food supplements for the animals we eat.  They recently released yet another study saying hey, this is bad, and Congress yet again did nothing.  I'd do a pun involving farms and pork but I don't have the heart for it today.

Report: Feeding antibiotics to livestock is bad for humans, but Congress won't stop it

The farm and pharmaceutical lobbies have blocked all meaningful efforts to reduce the use of antibiotics in raising livestock in the United States, a practice that contributes to an increasingly urgent public health risk, a study released Tuesday found.

Congress has killed every effort to restrict the feeding of farm animals the same antibiotics used in human medicine, the study says, even as antibiotics have grown less effective in treating infection. And regulation has gotten weaker under the Obama administration.

"Our worst fears were confirmed,'' said Bob Martin, executive director of the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future, which issued the report. The Food and Drug Administration's statistics, he said, show that as much as 80 percent of the antibiotics sold in this country are fed to food animals.
 
2013-10-27 08:37:19 PM  
My father-in-law is a retired USAMRIID biochemist and he was on the panel that recommended that smallpox vaccines should stop being applied to US citizens back in the 70's, or whenever they stopped.  After the post 9/11 antrax scare, we were talking about smallpox and I asked him why they voted to stop the vaccines, and he said they would have killed more people with the vaccine than could have possibly been infected by the virus.

Short term thinking always seems to result in stupid decisions.  Although he doesn't see it as such, we're all a smallpox outbreak away because we don't get vaccinated for it.  The military does, but the general public doesn't.
 
2013-10-27 08:50:05 PM  
You do have to work pretty hard to catch HIV.

That's the ONLY reason humanity didn't have a "Captain Trips" die-off event in the early 1980's.
 
2013-10-27 09:06:57 PM  

Lsherm: My father-in-law is a retired USAMRIID biochemist and he was on the panel that recommended that smallpox vaccines should stop being applied to US citizens back in the 70's, or whenever they stopped.  After the post 9/11 antrax scare, we were talking about smallpox and I asked him why they voted to stop the vaccines, and he said they would have killed more people with the vaccine than could have possibly been infected by the virus.

Short term thinking always seems to result in stupid decisions.  Although he doesn't see it as such, we're all a smallpox outbreak away because we don't get vaccinated for it.  The military does, but the general public doesn't.


Are you arguing for wide spread smallpox vaccinations? The risk of fatality is worth it with polio vaccines or MMR because it's an extremely small number and that risk is worth the benefit. Smallpox doesn't exist in the wild. There's zero reason to vaccinate people for it outside of specific military precautions.

And if an outbreak did occur at least in the US we could ramp up widescale vaccinations pretty farking quickly.

In the scheme of bad things to be worried about, this is pretty low on the list.
 
2013-10-27 09:44:39 PM  
just bring back sulfa drugs
 
2013-10-27 10:05:55 PM  

namatad: YAWN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phage_therapy
Has been waiting for this day since the 30's. Time to crack open the russian and georgian studies.


Ill stick with gina therapy.
 
2013-10-27 10:42:13 PM  

Gunther: So science us up a replacement, dammit.

I seem to remember hearing promising things about genetically engineered bacteriophages a year or two back, whatever happened to those?


They take about 20 years to test, become approved, and get on the market.  That's what happened to them.
 
2013-10-27 10:51:02 PM  
Who cares?  Now we now have fecal transplants.
 
2013-10-27 11:20:11 PM  
On a slightly more serious note (although my last comment does have some truth to it), if this becomes a serious problem, is it time to consider ditching cash money already?  Nothing promotes the spread of disease quite like it.  I will gladly volunteer to get a short range wireless chip in my arm to improve commerce, slow the spread of disease, and troll the fundies.

Or lets go with the Stephen Colbert quote.

I propose that we eliminate cash entirely and do all transactions electronically. First, we give every American a number. Then we assign those numbers to a bar code. I call it the "Barcode for Economic And Sumptuary Transactions", or "B.E.A.S.T. for short. This ummm B.E.A.S.T. mark then will be branded or tattooed on the hand or the forehead of every American and can be used to track income, purchases, even people. The mark of the B.E.A.S.T., its the key to fairer simpler tax collection. IRS...you're welcome.
 
2013-10-27 11:46:48 PM  
We have about fifty antibiotics we no longer use because they were proven to cause cancer when forced into sick rats by high pressure tubing in California.
They work fine, they AREN'T resisted and they're mostly cheap to make and use.
 
2013-10-28 12:25:53 AM  

Shedim: We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.


Two suggestions, but will require future tech:

1) Nanotech. Program nanobots to take out diseases and virii.
2) Wait for the first human to develop an immunity, extract immunity, replicate it, give to rest of humanity, essentially speeding up natural selection.
 
2013-10-28 01:02:13 AM  
I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.

People take typical illnesses way too seriously; it's too inconvenient for them or too scary that their bodies are acting in abnormal ways. They also ignore that their body needs time to rest, as their stressful lives leave them predisposed to illness anyway! Natural laws of life cannot be thwarted indefinitely, and the payoff is never worth it.

Stay just a little sick, yall. Let your body work its magic.
 
2013-10-28 02:07:12 AM  

Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.


Holy crap, you are full of terrible advice. And probably toxoplasmosis.
 
2013-10-28 02:41:29 AM  

foo monkey: unyon: foo monkey: I had a MRSA infection on my balls. Left nutsack swelled up like a playground kickball, full of blood and puss.

Now farkied as "Puss Balls".  I hope you're pleased with yourself.

I had a second one on my buttcrack. Went to an infectious disease specialist and did a full body detox. Hibicleanse and antibiotic ointment in my nose. Clean for two years. Yay for NYC subways!!


You should probably stop sitting on the subway whilst naked
 
2013-10-28 04:25:08 AM  

Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.

People take typical illnesses way too seriously; it's too inconvenient for them or too scary that their bodies are acting in abnormal ways. They also ignore that their body needs time to rest, as their stressful lives leave them predisposed to illness anyway! Natural laws of life cannot be thwarted indefinitely, and the payoff is never worth it.

Stay just a little sick, yall. Let your body work its magic.


In truth there is merit to your madness.  Constant exposure to bacteria keeps your immune system on guard all the time.  Babies instinctively do things that expose them to bacteria for precisely this reason.  But it has been shown that those raised in overly sanitized homes develop far more allergies etc.

If one thinks of the immune system as they would a muscle, what he said makes more sense.
 
2013-10-28 05:04:08 AM  

studebaker hoch: You do have to work pretty hard to catch HIV.


If sex is hard work, you're out of shape or doing it wrong.
 
2013-10-28 05:16:41 AM  

bk3k: Stibium: I'm probably still badly allergic to all the good antibiotics so I lean towards natural treatments. Most importantly, stressing my immune system. I rarely wash my hands for sanitation purposes. My cats also drink out of my glass of water all the time, and I'm sure there are some e. coli from licking their Zune logos, not to mention their native mouth bacteria contaminating my water. I touch keyboards and laptops from all kinds of people on a near-daily basis. When I get a cut or cat scratch, they heal, even though they have the ruddy tinge of bacterial infection. I've gotten some of my worst infected cuts from working with metal, as they love to breed in old coolant or oil. I bounce back every time.

People take typical illnesses way too seriously; it's too inconvenient for them or too scary that their bodies are acting in abnormal ways. They also ignore that their body needs time to rest, as their stressful lives leave them predisposed to illness anyway! Natural laws of life cannot be thwarted indefinitely, and the payoff is never worth it.

Stay just a little sick, yall. Let your body work its magic.

In truth there is merit to your madness.  Constant exposure to bacteria keeps your immune system on guard all the time.  Babies instinctively do things that expose them to bacteria for precisely this reason.  But it has been shown that those raised in overly sanitized homes develop far more allergies etc.

If one thinks of the immune system as they would a muscle, what he said makes more sense.


The other problem you can run into though is the same one you get if you're stressed for prolonged periods of time; you initially get a spike in your immune system response, but after a day or it drops back to normal and keeps dropping to sub-optimal levels, so you can end up getting sicker.

Besides, it's still a good idea to maintain basic hygiene. All it takes is one persistent or antibiotic-resistant infection to take hold and you're on the road to potential amputation.
 
2013-10-28 08:46:16 AM  

Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now.


A few years now?  Not long ago, I linked to an article that talked about how the CDC (and others) were warning of this in the mid 60s, that our overuse of antibiotics was going to result in superbugs that would eventually overwhelm our ability to create new drugs to keep up with them.

But we're a remarkably short-sighted species, and it will eventually be our downfall.
 
2013-10-28 09:33:15 AM  

omeganuepsilon: I like how he makes it sound like a problem we caused ourselves, like we should have never used antibiotics in the first place, that it was a mistake to save those lives and improve the quality of life for others.

Comes off as someone who really shouldn't be in medicine.


Misuse of penicillin could lead to the propagation of mutant forms of bacteria that will resist the new miracle drug.

- Alexander Fleming, penicillin discoverer, really shouldn't have been in medicine too
 
2013-10-28 11:27:32 AM  

Lsherm: My father-in-law is a retired USAMRIID biochemist and he was on the panel that recommended that smallpox vaccines should stop being applied to US citizens back in the 70's, or whenever they stopped.  After the post 9/11 antrax scare, we were talking about smallpox and I asked him why they voted to stop the vaccines, and he said they would have killed more people with the vaccine than could have possibly been infected by the virus.

Short term thinking always seems to result in stupid decisions.  Although he doesn't see it as such, we're all a smallpox outbreak away because we don't get vaccinated for it.  The military does, but the general public doesn't.


I know someone else responded, but the thing with smallpox is that (in theory) it has been totally eradicated, and the remaining samples exist in known, tightly controlled labs.

Now, the scary thing I learned just a few months ago (I read "The Dead Hand", which has a chilling look at the Soviet era bioweapons program, which I had no idea persisted into the mid-90s) is that scientists were testing and weaponizing the stuff long after it had been agreed upon never to do such a thing.

/So, as long as the bugs never escape their current storage labs, there is basically zero chance of it ever reappearing, as it really is gone and won't simply evolve out of nothing anytime soon.
//If it breaks out of storage? Well...shiat could get real, and real fast
/Personally I have to have faith nobody would be so stupid as to intentionally release that monster
 
2013-10-28 01:31:01 PM  

assjuice: Shedim: They've seen this coming for a few years now. The problem is that there genuinely isn't anything left that can serve as a substitute that isn't also toxic to humans. You could use silver ions like they do in wound dressings if you're okay with inconclusive stuides, looking like a Smurf and potential renal failure, and copper works really well as a surface antibacterial but you can't exactly introduce that into the body in quantities that wouldn't also be cytotoxic.

We need another seriously major leap in molecular biology to get past this.

3d printed nanobots are right around the corner. I read it on cnn.


that would be so funny, if life extension was only possibly by using a form of 3D printing...

in other news, I have my own method of stopping bacteria but I can`t tell you because then it would stop working.
 
2013-10-28 02:17:40 PM  
omeganuepsilon:You morons, cousins of Jenny McArthy, seem to fear modern medicine as if its creating a superbug.  The irony is, if it weren't for modern medicines, we'd already be experiencing many more superbugs within our own lifetimes. Look at things like HIV/AIDS.  Although viral, pretty damned resilient and contagious without man's influence.

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of the term 'super-bug'.


 
2013-10-28 02:25:33 PM  

omeganuepsilon: HempHead: AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.

Tell that to the millions of people who have it and know they're going to die.  I'm sure it will comfort them.


AIDS is still very much a behavioral-based disease. Much of the illness stems from unprotected sex and drug use though.  So many others are genetics or being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
2013-10-28 02:54:48 PM  
Well, good thing after realizing that bugs can become resistant to anti-biotics the meat industry stopped dumping drugs into animals as a preventative measure!
 
2013-10-28 07:14:38 PM  

omeganuepsilon: HempHead: AIDS is not very contagious. It can't be passed thru incidental contact.

Tell that to the millions of people who have it and know they're going to die.  I'm sure it will comfort them.


Show me a person on earth who doesn't know they're going to die.
Furthermore, the life expectancy for hiv-infected people on medication is about the same as a non-infected person.
 
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