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(Jalopnik)   GM killed Pontiac on government orders. THANKS, OBAMA   (jalopnik.com) divider line 103
    More: Sad, Obama, GTO, Bob Lutz, Pontiac  
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5075 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Oct 2013 at 10:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



103 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-26 08:52:03 PM  
Investors get a say on how businesses are ran?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?
 
2013-10-26 08:52:51 PM  
in before "....thinks it's a cadillac."
 
2013-10-26 08:57:59 PM  
Not much point in bailing out a struggling company if they are just going to throw that money at a known money sink
 
2013-10-26 09:02:17 PM  
I can't remember a Pontiac that wasn't mostly made out of plastic. Meh.
 
2013-10-26 09:07:21 PM  
I'm pretty sure this is old news
 
2013-10-26 09:12:34 PM  
And Pontiac was doing so well, having come off the fabulous success of the Aztek, followed by the well-received and critically-lauded reborn GTO, and then their top-to-bottom reworking of the flagship Grand Am.

Or none of those things.

What killed Pontiac was a 25 year slide into obscurity due to having no strong hand at the control of the brand, along with an across-the-board lackluster stable of cars from GM during that time.
 
2013-10-26 09:13:58 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I'm pretty sure this is old news


It is but the weirdos at Jalopnik are still pissed they didn't get the Bob Lutz promised Pontiac El Camino
 
2013-10-26 09:16:18 PM  
Damn, and this was the year I was gonna get that black Trans-Am and go as Michael Knight for Halloween.
 
2013-10-26 09:28:52 PM  
img.gawkerassets.com
You'd think Joe Biden would put in a good word for Pontiac.
 
2013-10-26 10:05:59 PM  
You had it, Pontiac.
 
2013-10-26 10:21:31 PM  

RexTalionis: Not much point in bailing out a struggling company if they are just going to throw that money at a known money sink


But that's just it... Pontiac was about to become everything that everyone had asked for, all RWD, power and performance... it was like a '60s renaissance. Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

There are lots of things that you can say about GM, but one always rings true: just as they're getting it right they kill it. It happens with everything, from individual models to entire divisions. OK, so the government demanded that GM kill Pontiac. In the condition they were in GM would have blown it anyway. The only thing I can fault anybody for is that they killed the wrong division. The G8 was a fantastic car, and even as a marque full of Holden rebadges it still had more upside than Buick.
 
2013-10-26 10:37:52 PM  
In the end all these automotive name badges are are different design groups who design body panels and interiors to fit a common frame. One less and who cares. The dealerships can shift badges by putting up a new sign.
 
2013-10-26 10:41:15 PM  
Should have started with 'At GM'


/fark needs a 10 minute limited re-edit function for the slow minded.
 
2013-10-26 10:42:52 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.


China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!
 
2013-10-26 10:46:56 PM  
Poor Old President Thinks It's A Cadillac?
 
2013-10-26 10:49:57 PM  
I would have preferred they drop the GMC brand rather than the Pontiac, but that's just me.
 
2013-10-26 10:50:49 PM  
If he had a son, and that son had a car, it would look like a Pontiac.
 
2013-10-26 10:50:53 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I would have preferred they drop the GMC brand rather than the Pontiac, but that's just me.


Yeah.. GMC.. really doesn't serve any purpose.
 
2013-10-26 10:53:20 PM  

RexTalionis: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!


This and, if you saw the whole thing with the link you would have seen that the Feds wanted to leave only Chevy and Cadillac. Then the company pointed out how profitable Buick was and that the China business would be lost if Buick were orphaned in the US, and Buick was allowed to stay. Then they wanted to get rid of GMC, and GM showed them how massively profitable GMC is because people will pay more for that brand than for the equivalent Chevrolet. And then they asked about Pontiac, and GM hadn't showed a profit on Pontiac in a decade. So it got axed. Bankruptcy is no time for "well, it hasn't worked yet, but with our untested new strategy we're sure it will work out great now." That doesn't sell.
 
2013-10-26 11:05:01 PM  

cman: Investors get a say on how businesses are ran?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?


At the time though the pitch was this wasn't happening. Same with the dealerships being shuttered. I suppose we'll find out that the gov't had a say in that too.
 
2013-10-26 11:06:16 PM  

pdieten: RexTalionis: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!

This and, if you saw the whole thing with the link you would have seen that the Feds wanted to leave only Chevy and Cadillac. Then the company pointed out how profitable Buick was and that the China business would be lost if Buick were orphaned in the US, and Buick was allowed to stay. Then they wanted to get rid of GMC, and GM showed them how massively profitable GMC is because people will pay more for that brand than for the equivalent Chevrolet. And then they asked about Pontiac, and GM hadn't showed a profit on Pontiac in a decade. So it got axed. Bankruptcy is no time for "well, it hasn't worked yet, but with our untested new strategy we're sure it will work out great now." That doesn't sell.


Have you seen Chinese domestic cars? GM could have sold cars called "Fark You China" and they would have lined up for miles to get into them. GM could have repackaged the Cavalier and sold millions of them. The belief that China wouldn't have purchased Buicks if they were orphaned here in America is crazy. They're car-starved.

Let's say that GM had kept Chevrolet to cover the low and middle end of the market and Cadillac to cover the top end. What does Buick sell other than grandpamobiles and Jew canoes? With such a reduced portfolio GM would have been able to make cars with Pontiac that were not staid family cars, fleet specials, or Cadillacs out of the price range of a middle-class or budget shopper. Instead they're now trapped with Buick and can't do anything out of the mainstream. Chevrolet and Buick will never see anything like a Solstice or a G8. Nobody would have any idea what to do with them.
 
2013-10-26 11:07:28 PM  
Considering the quality of their cars the last few years all I have to say is who the fark cares?  I mean really Pontiacs were just trash with always the promise of something good is going to come but it never seemed to arrive.

I always hated working on Pontiacs except for a 1973 Firebird whose engine I worked on but that wasn't much different except for the trim from the Chevy Camero, so really what was Pontiac really bringing to the table?
 
2013-10-26 11:09:22 PM  
♪ Government killed the Pontiac car... Government killed the Pontiac car... ♫ Obama came and broke our hearts...♪

/sorry
 
2013-10-26 11:14:29 PM  

cman: Investors get a say on how businesses are ran?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?


Oh, I thought they bailed them out.

But I guess you know better.
 
2013-10-26 11:18:30 PM  
www.biography.com
How?
 
2013-10-26 11:18:32 PM  

RexTalionis: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!


IIRC, the last emperor of China had a thing for Buicks, hence why they're coveted as a status symbol in China.
 
2013-10-26 11:21:57 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: RexTalionis: Not much point in bailing out a struggling company if they are just going to throw that money at a known money sink

But that's just it... Pontiac was about to become everything that everyone had asked for, all RWD, power and performance... it was like a '60s renaissance. Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

There are lots of things that you can say about GM, but one always rings true: just as they're getting it right they kill it. It happens with everything, from individual models to entire divisions. OK, so the government demanded that GM kill Pontiac. In the condition they were in GM would have blown it anyway. The only thing I can fault anybody for is that they killed the wrong division. The G8 was a fantastic car, and even as a marque full of Holden rebadges it still had more upside than Buick.


You can't sell Pontiac as a performance badge with just the G8 since its stablemates included such garbage as the: G3, G5, G6, all rounded out with the Torrent and the Montana.  Mostly crappy badge engineered and totally unnecessary cars.
 
2013-10-26 11:24:05 PM  

RexTalionis: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!


Plus the stuff coming down the pike for Pontiac was the stuff everyone (including the automotive press) _says_ they want, but no one actually buys.  It was going to be a low volume enthusiast brand at best.

I still don't understand why both Chevy and GMC have body-on-frame trucks (and why someone would buy one and not the other), but I guess since I'm not the target demographic, I'm probably not qualified to comment.
 
2013-10-26 11:26:32 PM  
I'm not a fan of Obama but part of being an investor means that you have a say in what the company does. The government wanted to have a say in how GM spent our money, I don't have a problem with this.
 
2013-10-26 11:27:23 PM  

RexTalionis: China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!


I would pick to spell "loose" with TWO Os, dumbass.
 
2013-10-26 11:29:24 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: RexTalionis: China is the largest car market in the world and Buicks are amazingly profitable as a luxury product. Which is wiser - cutting lose a brand that "might" be turning around after decades of mismanagement? Or cutting lose a luxury brand in the world's largest car market that makes an unbelievable amount of money for GM every year?

WHICH ONE WOULD YOU PICK?!

I would pick to spell "loose" with TWO Os, dumbass.


When you can't win the argument, at least you can win the spelling bee.
 
2013-10-26 11:33:26 PM  

Sgt Otter: IIRC, the last emperor of China had a thing for Buicks, hence why they're coveted as a status symbol in China.


I believe the archaeologists found a terra cotta Buick from the time of the first Qin emperor.
 
2013-10-26 11:34:05 PM  

firefly212: When you can't win the argument, at least you can win the spelling bee.


Isn't that cute. Too bad I wasn't arguing one way or the other.
 
2013-10-26 11:40:17 PM  
Had a Pontiac as a rental a few years before they went bust; easily one of the crappiest cars I've ever rented. But then again, most GMs I've had as rentals were junk.
 
2013-10-26 11:46:39 PM  
GMC sells mostly big trucks, and Chevy sells mostly small trucks.
 
2013-10-26 11:48:50 PM  

pastorkius: Adolf Oliver Nipples: RexTalionis: Not much point in bailing out a struggling company if they are just going to throw that money at a known money sink

But that's just it... Pontiac was about to become everything that everyone had asked for, all RWD, power and performance... it was like a '60s renaissance. Instead they kept Buick, with a demographic just south of dead outside of China who inexplicably loves Buicks, and GMC, nothing but badge-engineered Chevrolet truck clones.

There are lots of things that you can say about GM, but one always rings true: just as they're getting it right they kill it. It happens with everything, from individual models to entire divisions. OK, so the government demanded that GM kill Pontiac. In the condition they were in GM would have blown it anyway. The only thing I can fault anybody for is that they killed the wrong division. The G8 was a fantastic car, and even as a marque full of Holden rebadges it still had more upside than Buick.

You can't sell Pontiac as a performance badge with just the G8 since its stablemates included such garbage as the: G3, G5, G6, all rounded out with the Torrent and the Montana.  Mostly crappy badge engineered and totally unnecessary cars.


This.

And if GM want to bring the Holden Ute to the US, they can easily do it as the farking El Camino... which was a farking Chevy in the first place.  GM also screwed the pooch badge engineering Saturn.  The Outlook and whatever the fark the smaller SUV was were just GM/Chevys with a Saturn logo.  The idea behind Saturn died in an accounting meeting room long ago.

And don't forget one of the most reliable Pontiacs in a long time... the Toyotiac Vibrix.

Yes, yes, they were all on the cusp of a comeback... right around the corner... sure thing.
 
2013-10-26 11:57:56 PM  

Mrbogey: cman: Investors get a say on how businesses are ran?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?

At the time though the pitch was this wasn't happening. Same with the dealerships being shuttered. I suppose we'll find out that the gov't had a say in that too.


Damn right.  Obama killed those poor bootstrappy regressives' dealerships out of spite.  AND I CHEERED!
 
2013-10-27 12:04:10 AM  
Well, it's just one more way Back to the Future Part II messed up.

images.wikia.com


/You still have 2 years to make Mr. Fusions and Hoverboards, so get going, scientists.
 
2013-10-27 12:05:42 AM  
Just because this makes me giggle like a loon every time.

i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2013-10-27 12:25:48 AM  
It's just a farking badge.  Why can't they make the same cars under another name?  Or simply bring it back when they were back on their feet?

/wankwankwankwnak
 
2013-10-27 12:34:33 AM  

RexTalionis: Not much point in bailing out a struggling company if they are just going to throw that money at a known money sink


THIS .... and they werent ordered to do anything ... a deal was made
 
2013-10-27 12:41:26 AM  

cman: Investors get a say on how businesses are ran?

WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?


The madness was when the government stepped in to help them out, but hey at least we live in a free country where the government doesn't own all the corporations or dictate how they're run...oh, well maybe not.

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't remember a Pontiac that wasn't mostly made out of plastic. Meh.


You sound young

When I was a kid I was asleep in a Pontiac when my father who was driving also fell asleep.  No hilarity ensued, but since the body was made completely out of metal (and also probably because it wasn't high speed) we survived without injury.  The Pontiac?  Well, it got fixed, but my dad regrets not getting rid of it right after he crashed it.

A few years ago, I rented a Pontiac for a few days and was pretty impressed by it.  I don't know if it was built to last, but it had a lot of nice features and had some pep in it.

If nothing else, they could make a new GTO and people would flock to it like flies on shiat even if it wasn't well made.

Ford keeps making Mustangs.  Chevrolet keeps making Corvettes and we've also seen the new Dodge Challenger and Chevy Camaro.  Ford may have started off that retro thing with their Thunderbird.  I don't know if it was actually a good car, but it looked awesome and apparently they couldn't keep them on the dealer's lots for more than a few minutes.  I remember reading that they were selling for higher than the MSRP.

So just imagine if Pontiac came out with a 2014 GTO.  They could use the exact same body style as a 1964 GTO.  The engine, dashboard, transmission and all that shiat under the hood and chassis could be new technology, but it would look exactly the same.

It would look mean and strong and fast and wouldn't be a whiny little biatch.
static.cargurus.com

I guarantee you, people would snap that car up like they were paying 1964 prices for it just for the looks.

Or maybe a '66.  I think I actually prefer that one.


pictures.dealer.com
 
2013-10-27 12:47:14 AM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: I'm not a fan of Obama but part of being an investor means that you have a say in what the company does. The government wanted to have a say in how GM spent our money, I don't have a problem with this.


THIS
close the thread
 
2013-10-27 12:49:37 AM  

pdieten: and, if you saw the whole thing with the link you would have seen that the Feds wanted to leave only Chevy and Cadillac. Then the company pointed out how profitable Buick was and that the China business would be lost if Buick were orphaned in the US, and Buick was allowed to stay. Then they wanted to get rid of GMC, and GM showed them how massively profitable GMC is because people will pay more for that brand than for the equivalent Chevrolet. And then they asked about Pontiac, and GM hadn't showed a profit on Pontiac in a decade. So it got axed. Bankruptcy is no time for "well, it hasn't worked yet, but with our untested new strategy we're sure it will work out great now."


Yeah. Pontiac hadn't shown a reason to exist for a couple of decades, actually. If the government did cause Pontiac's death they were doing GM a favor.

(And my family has - not had, has - 2 great Pontiacs, so it's not like I don't see what good things the division was capable of)
 
2013-10-27 12:50:10 AM  
I always wondered why they killed off the Pontiac line. This explains a lot, and yet nothing.

I loved Pontiacs. I had two Grand Prixs. Just retired my 2000 GTP in June. It had 208,000 miles on it. I loved how it drove, the power and the interior was far better than most other GM vehicles of the time. Granted, it wasn't perfect, but compared to the 2004 Saturn Vue my wife had it was light years better.

Now yes, the brand languished in obsolescence through the late 80's and 90's. No one can argue that. But there were points of mad genius through out.

In 1989-1990, they had a Grand Prix with a intercooled turbo engine designed by McLaren. My father and I are rebuilding one. It was pure madness and genius. Yes it had the horrible plastic body molding that they were known for, but the car was stupid fast for its time. It had options as standard equipment that wouldn't show up on other mainstream vehicles for years. It had a factory standard CD player with full steering wheel controls - in 1990. That was unheard of. I didn't see CD players become optional in most vehicles till 94 or 95.
In addition, it had full power front seats. Not just your standard back and forth, tilt and such. But air bladder controlled individual adjustment for your left and right legs, lumbar, side bolsters, etc. And on both driver and passenger. Madness. Plus the car was something like $34k new in '90. That's close to $50k I believe today. Add in the fact that it had a Head Up Display and you've got a car that was equivalent to a BMW of its time.

And of course there's the poster child for what some people would call Pontiac's stupidity or ugliness, the Aztek. But how many of you actually drove one or even looked at what features they offered? Very few I'm sure. I looked at one and almost bought one, but needed more interior room and bought a Tahoe instead. Just because it was what most would consider ugly, everyone dismissed it outright. Sad since the interior was quite innovative.
 
2013-10-27 12:50:32 AM  
Pontiac spent over a decade making the shiattiest cars sold in America. If it had been a stand-alone company it would have died and no one would have bailed it out. GM killed Pontiac.

And GM did try to save it at the end. Pity they didn't axe GMC instead, all it is is another trim level for Chevy trucks.

And Buicks are boring old people cars.
 
2013-10-27 12:50:47 AM  

The Bestest: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I would have preferred they drop the GMC brand rather than the Pontiac, but that's just me.

Yeah.. GMC.. really doesn't serve any purpose.


Except for being a valuable brand that sells trucks better than Chev.
 
2013-10-27 12:52:16 AM  
I forgot to add in the fact that I would still give my left nut for a G8 GXP with a 6spd manual.
 
2013-10-27 12:58:42 AM  
what the farking fark. tfa sez the gov wanted to kill a lot more, but people defended the other brands and the gov backed down. pontiac didn't get defended. yeah, that's handing out orders alright.
 
2013-10-27 12:58:52 AM  

Bith Set Me Up: Well, it's just one more way Back to the Future Part II messed up.

[images.wikia.com image 540x378]


/You still have 2 years to make Mr. Fusions and Hoverboards, so get going, scientists.


Not the first time:

telstarlogistics.typepad.com

/Pontiac peaked with the Tempest
 
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