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(Talking Points Memo)   Obama has been using his time machine to spy on German Chancellor Angela Merkel's mobile phone since 2002   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 186
    More: Followup, Angela Merkel, Obama, United States, time machines, cell phones, Der Spiegel  
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2027 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Oct 2013 at 7:34 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-26 07:04:05 PM
It probably was less because of his time machine and more because of her super massive ass bending space & time around it.
 
2013-10-26 07:13:47 PM
That's how he knew not to go for the shoulder massage.
 
2013-10-26 07:18:05 PM
I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?
 
2013-10-26 07:38:03 PM
How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.
 
2013-10-26 07:38:36 PM

cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


Because us stopping will not make them stop. Moral high ground is meaningless in global politics.
 
2013-10-26 07:39:09 PM
I see, that was back in 2002, when Germany was "old Europe" and not "with us" but "against us."  I can see Bush ordering up that bug chop chop.  I'm sure Sarkozy's phone was tapped as well as they were in the same boat.
 
2013-10-26 07:39:44 PM
How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?
 
2013-10-26 07:40:05 PM
Seems 0bama is more like Bush than Bush was as he just keeps ramping up the Bush/Cheney policies without admitting to any of it.

Wait, that was Reagan term 2.
 
2013-10-26 07:40:34 PM
That doesn't make things better, it makes things even worse than we first thought.
 
2013-10-26 07:42:44 PM
I thought Snowden was only releasing documents that protested the US government spying on Americans.
 
2013-10-26 07:43:59 PM

vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.


She wasn't a Chancellor in 2002.

IIRC it was 2005 when she was elected
 
2013-10-26 07:45:03 PM
The report noted Obama told Merkel he would have stopped the surveillance had he known about it, according to Reuters.

How come he never knows anything?
 
2013-10-26 07:45:24 PM

cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?



And Bush doing it makes if Obama's fault how?
 
2013-10-26 07:46:02 PM

pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?


Or even Bush's?
 
2013-10-26 07:47:00 PM

Corvus: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


And Bush doing it makes if Obama's fault how?


Umm, ok? How in the world you thought I blamed Obama for something, I don't know.
 
2013-10-26 07:49:14 PM
It's the "All the kids are doing it" defense I see.
 
2013-10-26 07:52:48 PM

hammettman: I see, that was back in 2002, when Germany was "old Europe" and not "with us" but "against us."  I can see Bush ordering up that bug chop chop.  I'm sure Sarkozy's phone was tapped as well as they were in the same boat.


Freedom bugging.
 
2013-10-26 07:54:12 PM

rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?


I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should
 
2013-10-26 07:56:04 PM

Corvus: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


And Bush doing it makes if Obama's fault how?


Oh I'm sure the repubs on my Facebook page will have many reasons for it being Obamas fault.
 I'd delete them, but they're farkin' family and it would make the holidays a little awkward.
 
2013-10-26 07:57:13 PM
Political theater Scene:
Obama walks into the room on his first day as President.
The drones that work there hand him papers on all the secret shiat that Bush jr and his Master Cheney implemented.
Obama says "is this all?". The drones say yes.
Fast forward 3 years.
Obama's staff who roots out secrets, finds information on the secret programs of the NSA.
Obama gulps down deep as he goes "holy f*cking shiat. I can't let this shiat leak out, as it means the destruction of America by moronic voters voting in Mitt Rmoney as president and the nullification of everything that is for the people, even though it was the rightwings doing."
Obama's only recourse is to bury this shiat and then eventually... Oh damn! Snowden just released documents. F*CK!!!!!"
The leftwing passionate government then introduces it ace-card and drops Canadian, Rafael Cruz, to use as a distraction.
Add to that a deep agent who goes on the Daily show to show how racist republicans are.

[redacted] of the leftwing is then voted in as new President in 2016 and everyone lives happily ever after, as they wave goodbye to the t-tards who happily accepted those free tickets to what they thought was an all expense trip to Hawaii, but instead was Somalia.

end
 
2013-10-26 07:59:43 PM

pivazena: rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?

I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should


I want this to be a big thing for 2016. Questioning the presidential candidates on the NSA's current power and what can be done to reduce or remove it. Of course, each candidate will either try to justify its current state, lie that they will do something about it or honestly try to do something about it only to learn in office that it's too juicy a forbidden fruit to throw away.
 
2013-10-26 08:05:33 PM
I'm not at all a fan of the massive data sweeps. But nations spying on national actors, whether their friends, enemies and everyone in between? Have at 'er.
 
2013-10-26 08:09:43 PM
www.dubyaspeak.comnews.bbc.co.uk
 
2013-10-26 08:14:14 PM
 a "not legally registered spying branch" in the U.S. embassy in Berlin,

WTF does a legally registered spying branch look like?

Is there a big neon sign out front reading "Spies R Us"?

Was Bush actually spying on Merkel for political reasons or was he just sweet on her and trying to find out what she thought about unrequested neckrubs in general?

SkinnyHead: The report noted Obama told Merkel he would have stopped the surveillance had he known about it, according to Reuters.

How come he never knows anything?


To be fair Bush farked up a lot of stuff you can't expect Obama to know every dumbass thing Dumbya did.
 
2013-10-26 08:14:37 PM

cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


I don't see people complaining when we use the information we glean from spying in trade and political negotiations.
 
2013-10-26 08:14:45 PM

cman: Corvus: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


And Bush doing it makes if Obama's fault how?

Umm, ok? How in the world you thought I blamed Obama for something, I don't know.


Because that's who you mentioned. You imply Obama is the one because when you reversed the situation that's who you stated.
 
2013-10-26 08:15:28 PM

SkinnyHead: The report noted Obama told Merkel he would have stopped the surveillance had he known about it, according to Reuters.

How come he never knows anything?


One of the side-effects of the Time Machine is amnesia.
 
2013-10-26 08:17:32 PM

Corvus: cman: Corvus: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?


And Bush doing it makes if Obama's fault how?

Umm, ok? How in the world you thought I blamed Obama for something, I don't know.

Because that's who you mentioned. You imply Obama is the one because when you reversed the situation that's who you stated.


Learn to pronoun
 
2013-10-26 08:19:46 PM

vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.


Helmut Kohl was chancellor for 16 years.
 
2013-10-26 08:31:13 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I thought Snowden was only releasing documents that protested the US government spying on Americans.


Hell, he released documents about Canada spying on Brazil. Brazil ain't happy.
 
2013-10-26 08:31:18 PM

andrewagill: vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.

Helmut Kohl was chancellor for 16 years.


You know who else was chancellor for a long time?

/Senator Palpatine, that's who
 
2013-10-26 08:32:02 PM

pivazena: rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?

I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should


We trusted our allies during the Cold War?
 
2013-10-26 08:33:29 PM

vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.


The German president is allowed to serve 2 terms of 5 years each. There is no term limit for the chancellor. Longest serving chancellor was Helmut Kohl, serving from 1986 to 1998. Merkel became chancellor in 2005. And I just hit my forehead very hard on my desk.
 
2013-10-26 08:34:48 PM
stanhapsburg:  Longest serving chancellor was Helmut Kohl, serving from 1986 1982 to 1998.
 
2013-10-26 08:38:54 PM

Lost Thought 00: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?

Because us stopping will not make them stop. Moral high ground is meaningless in global politics.


Hm. Rather cynical. When does claiming the moral high ground ever matter, then?

Other than being, you know, the right thing to do. Because, apparently, that doesn't matter in politics.

Oh, I know. Perception! It matters, at the very least, because it affects other people's perception of America. They think we're dicks.

I'd think we'd want them to have a more favorable perception.
 
2013-10-26 08:41:34 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I thought Snowden was only releasing documents that protested the US government spying on Americans.


You know, it's funny. I have you favorited as "pro NSA," and this is what you bring to the conversation.

Shocker.
 
2013-10-26 08:41:51 PM
upload.wikimedia.org

stanhapsburg: vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.

The German president is allowed to serve 2 terms of 5 years each. There is no term limit for the chancellor. Longest serving chancellor was Helmut Kohl, serving from 1986 to 1998. Merkel became chancellor in 2005. And I just hit my forehead very hard on my desk.

 
2013-10-26 08:45:05 PM

sendtodave: pivazena: rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?

I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should

We trusted our allies during the Cold War?


Appearntly that is the narrative some people believe.
 
2013-10-26 08:50:49 PM

vernonFL: How long does Merkel get to be Chancellor? 2002 to 2013 is a long time. I guess their laws about term limits are less strict than ours.


Not all countries are modeled after the US system, most European nations have parliamentary systems where the head of state is a figurehead president or monarch and the real power lies with the prime minister. In parliamentary systems you vote by party and the winning party's leader most usually becomes the prime minister/chancellor of the government, no term limits.

Surprise, surprise there are different political systems.
 
2013-10-26 08:50:53 PM

DerpHerder: sendtodave: pivazena: rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?

I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should

We trusted our allies during the Cold War?

Appearntly that is the narrative some people believe.


We're still living with a 1960s mentality.

It's a sickness, really. We, as a nation, can't move on from the paranoia, from the fear of Reds, from the need of security, from a perminant war mentality.

Does the US suffer from PTSD?
 
2013-10-26 08:51:28 PM
Need for, even.
 
2013-10-26 08:52:57 PM
Can't do proper links on my phone. Sorry, I tried. But this is what an NSA listening post in Berlin looked like back in the day:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teufelsberg

Good times. I could tell stories about listening to politician's phone calls, but they were boring and I can't say any more.
 
2013-10-26 08:57:01 PM

hammettman: I see, that was back in 2002, when Germany was "old Europe" and not "with us" but "against us."  I can see Bush ordering up that bug chop chop.  I'm sure Sarkozy's phone was tapped as well as they were in the same boat.


Were they part of the Axis of Weasels?
 
2013-10-26 08:59:20 PM
andyvance.com
 
2013-10-26 09:08:03 PM

sendtodave: You know, it's funny. I have you favorited as "pro NSA," and this is what you bring to the conversation.

Shocker.


More "anti-bullshiat."  You can be annoyed with the NSA and still think Snowden is a lying attention whore who has hurt American interests.
 
2013-10-26 09:08:56 PM

Allen262:


Truman was president in 2002?
 
2013-10-26 09:12:35 PM

SN1987a goes boom: cman: I know that "everyone does it", but it still doesn't make it right

I wouldn't want Obama's phone being listened in on by German authorities, so why should we be able to do it?

I don't see people complaining when we use the information we glean from spying in trade and political negotiations.


Did anyone think NSA surveillance of any sovereign  actor outside the Middle East or North Africa  was anything but industrial espionage? Really?
 
2013-10-26 09:14:48 PM

SkinnyHead: The report noted Obama told Merkel he would have stopped the surveillance had he known about it, according to Reuters.

How come he never knows anything?


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-26 09:15:34 PM

sendtodave: DerpHerder: sendtodave: pivazena: rwhamann: pivazena: How many of these things are signed off on by the President?  I know the bucks stops here-- no excuses.  But seriously.  If Bush's head of the NSA signed off on this stuff, is it possible that this was going on without current POTUS's knowledge?

Or even Bush's?

I'd only say Bush because of when Merkel got elected.  But good point.  Maybe it's just NSA standard operating procedure to spy on world leaders.  In which case, frankly, it needs to be dismantled.

I can kind of see uber-paranoia after 9/11.  We got hit at home, blindsided (kind of), and all of a sudden we are terrified and don't trust our allies.  It's hard to step down from that level of precautions enabled by that paranoia.  Even though we should

We trusted our allies during the Cold War?

Appearntly that is the narrative some people believe.

We're still living with a 1960s mentality.

It's a sickness, really. We, as a nation, can't move on from the paranoia, from the fear of Reds, from the need of security, from a perminant war mentality.

Does the US suffer from PTSD?


But I'm afraid of the Russians
Afraid we have to fight
So afraid of the Russians
I can't sleep at night
 
2013-10-26 09:16:00 PM

Satanic_Hamster: sendtodave: You know, it's funny. I have you favorited as "pro NSA," and this is what you bring to the conversation.

Shocker.

More "anti-bullshiat."  You can be annoyed with the NSA and still think Snowden is a lying attention whore who has hurt American interests.


So, in this case, what hurts America's interests?

Spying on our allies, or getting caught spying on our allies?
 
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