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(The New York Times)   Roma parents fear that, in the wake of the "blond angel" case in Greece, they may have their kids taken away because people don't realize that, yes, Roma people can have blond hair   (nytimes.com) divider line 185
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4894 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2013 at 8:05 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-27 06:50:26 AM

gfid: What race are they? They look kind of white to me.


It's like what the man said about Ireland. Here is a place with no real religious, ethnic, nor cultural distinctions, yet they mange to improvise.
 
2013-10-27 07:27:08 AM
Oh Fark, you're up to your old habits again...

On the one side, you have European Farkers saying, "Trust me, you don't understand"

On the other, you have American farkers appalled because they don't see race, yet I've seen a few posts citing the Gypsy Wedding reality TV show or shiat straight out of the Daily Mail tabloid.

And no lulz, aside from the Roma-Lazio joke
 
2013-10-27 07:30:03 AM

HempHead: And the English.


No Roma in that case. It was a bunch of Irish travellers who had illegally expanded a site without getting planning permission. Wealthy travellers too, as they owned property in Ireland.
 
2013-10-27 07:35:34 AM

Bonzo_1116: I wonder if they could agitate to get EU citizenship that isn't tied to any particular nation, sort of the way US citizens living abroad are still able to vote in presidential elections, but not in local races. I.e Americans, but not a citizen of a state


Pretty sure you still need to have an address in US, and that's where you'd be registered to vote. And the EU is not going to give you a blanket EU passport (if that even exists)
 
2013-10-27 07:41:11 AM

gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

OTOH, I saw an image in a news story of a red headed girl with very pale skin who looked more Irish than anything else. She was supposed to be one of Maria's siblings.

Where do you draw the line when defining race? Are Americans a separate race from English people? Wait, are Americans even a race? There are Americans from Asia, Africa, South and Central America. Are you saying they aren't really Americans?

I just have a huge problem with race as a defining characteristic. Scientifically we're all humans. There really isn't much that differentiates a white person from a black person. There's even less that differentiates a Roma from a French person - not biologically anyway.


i45.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-27 08:27:37 AM

Cajnik: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

OTOH, I saw an image in a news story of a red headed girl with very pale skin who looked more Irish than anything else. She was supposed to be one of Maria's siblings.

Where do you draw the line when defining race? Are Americans a separate race from English people? Wait, are Americans even a race? There are Americans from Asia, Africa, South and Central America. Are you saying they aren't really Americans?

I just have a huge problem with race as a defining characteristic. Scientifically we're all humans. There really isn't much that differentiates a white person from a black person. There's even less that differentiates a Roma from a French person - not biologically anyway.

[i45.tinypic.com image 336x254]


Is that supposed to be funny?  I don't know if you've ever actually met anyone outside of your own :"race" before.  I suspect you haven't which is probably why you think it's funny to post pictures like that.

Trust me, Stephen Colbert is a farking moran.  "Roma" is not a race.  It's an excuse to live like gypsies and rob people of everything they can.  We have some in the US too.  They travel around and try to steal everything they can.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread even try to justify abandoning a 7 month old child.
 
2013-10-27 08:57:26 AM

gfid: Cajnik: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

OTOH, I saw an image in a news story of a red headed girl with very pale skin who looked more Irish than anything else. She was supposed to be one of Maria's siblings.

Where do you draw the line when defining race? Are Americans a separate race from English people? Wait, are Americans even a race? There are Americans from Asia, Africa, South and Central America. Are you saying they aren't really Americans?

I just have a huge problem with race as a defining characteristic. Scientifically we're all humans. There really isn't much that differentiates a white person from a black person. There's even less that differentiates a Roma from a French person - not biologically anyway.

[i45.tinypic.com image 336x254]

Is that supposed to be funny?  I don't know if you've ever actually met anyone outside of your own :"race" before.  I suspect you haven't which is probably why you think it's funny to post pictures like that.

Trust me, Stephen Colbert is a farking moran.  "Roma" is not a race.  It's an excuse to live like gypsies and rob people of everything they can.  We have some in the US too.  They travel around and try to steal everything they can.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread even try to justify abandoning a 7 month old child.


Wait, what?
 
2013-10-27 09:07:21 AM
Late to the thread, but do any of you Farkers have a recommendation toward reading up on the Roma? Fiction or non-fiction that portrays them from within instead of an outsider's take?

I was born with light brown hair, which was replaced with very blonde (as was the trait among my siblings), which eventually went darker brown, thence upon the arrival of facial hair it came in quite dark brown, which then lightened in tint aside from the mustache which darkened to include black hairs before the whole went fairly red before settling on brown again, all the while (since the age of sixteen) grey was creeping in and the mustache only is holding out at brown for the time being.

/mutt
//one sister has had what can only be referred to as everchanging merle hair which is now settling into dun every winter
///Great grandmother was a trapeze artist in a small traveling circus from either Germany, France, or somewhere farther east
/boring story bro
 
2013-10-27 09:22:06 AM

Gyrfalcon: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

The Roma consider themselves a different race. All the things you cite are because they are a distinct ethnic group and they prefer to keep it that way.

After Hitler got through with the Roma genocide, there were barely enough true Roma people to keep the bloodlines going, and they like being culturally and ethnically distinct from everyone, even at the expense of being considered criminals. As to why they don't "just assimilate", well, I guess you could say the same thing of the Jews or the Kurds. Why don't they just assimilate like everyone else?


How have Jews not assimilated into countries that would let them? They retain their own religion, but Jews have always assimilated culturally into other countries in every way that doesn't violate their relgion. Where ever they are able to, they are involved in the broader community, involved in politics, involved in interfaith projects, involved in charities. The clothes they wear or the way Jews cook in Italy is different than the way Jews in America or Spain or Israel. Southern Jews developed different culinary traditions than the ones who settled in New York. They always learn how to speak the local language in addition to any others they can speak.
 
2013-10-27 09:40:38 AM

ambercat: Gyrfalcon: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

The Roma consider themselves a different race. All the things you cite are because they are a distinct ethnic group and they prefer to keep it that way.

After Hitler got through with the Roma genocide, there were barely enough true Roma people to keep the bloodlines going, and they like being culturally and ethnically distinct from everyone, even at the expense of being considered criminals. As to why they don't "just assimilate", well, I guess you could say the same thing of the Jews or the Kurds. Why don't they just assimilate like everyone else?

How have Jews not assimilated into countries that would let them? They retain their own religion, but Jews have always assimilated culturally into other countries in every way that doesn't violate their relgion. Where ever they are able to, they are involved in the broader community, involved in politics, involved in interfaith projects, involved in charities. The clothes they wear or the way Jews cook in Italy is different than the way Jews in America or Spain or Israel. Southern Jews developed different culinary traditions than the ones who settled in New York. They always learn how to speak the local language in addition to any others they can speak.


===================

I'm guessing you've never been to New York?  Do you know what the Hasidim are all about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York
 
2013-10-27 09:42:41 AM

gfid: Cajnik: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

OTOH, I saw an image in a news story of a red headed girl with very pale skin who looked more Irish than anything else. She was supposed to be one of Maria's siblings.

Where do you draw the line when defining race? Are Americans a separate race from English people? Wait, are Americans even a race? There are Americans from Asia, Africa, South and Central America. Are you saying they aren't really Americans?

I just have a huge problem with race as a defining characteristic. Scientifically we're all humans. There really isn't much that differentiates a white person from a black person. There's even less that differentiates a Roma from a French person - not biologically anyway.

[i45.tinypic.com image 336x254]

Is that supposed to be funny?  I don't know if you've ever actually met anyone outside of your own :"race" before.  I suspect you haven't which is probably why you think it's funny to post pictures like that.

Trust me, Stephen Colbert is a farking moran.   "Roma" is not a race.  It's an excuse to live like gypsies and rob people of everything they can.  We have some in the US too.  They travel around and try to steal everything they can.

I have yet to see anyone in this thread even try to justify abandoning a 7 month old child.


===================

You don't know what you are talking about. The DNA evidence PROVES that the majority of people who self identify as Roma have origins in northern India and not Europe.
 
2013-10-27 09:51:44 AM
So? Why don't they just use their magic crystal balls to predict when the authorities are going to take away their kids?
 
2013-10-27 10:04:08 AM

Richard C Stanford: So? Why don't they just use their magic crystal balls to predict when the authorities are going to take away their kids?


===========

Because the police bribe rival gypsy groups into short circuiting the crystal balls of the targeted gypsy group.
 
2013-10-27 10:25:29 AM
A lot of the hatred towards the roma might be pure racism, but not all.

The romas lifestyle place them outside society. They have 10 or more children who don't go to school, they live of welfare, begging and crime.
Let's not be naive, if you live like this people are going to resent you.

The jews on the other hand have alway integrated into society economicly, and have only placed themselves outside by their religion and diet, except when the law forced them to.
 
2013-10-27 11:16:29 AM

syrynxx: Romani eunt domus


Thank you!!
 
2013-10-27 11:32:06 AM

gfid: Where do you draw the line when defining race?  Are Americans a separate race from English people?  Wait, are Americans even a race?  There are Americans from Asia, Africa, South and Central America.  Are you saying they aren't really Americans?


The whole concept of "race" is pretty muddy, but I seem to remember that (at least at one time) the English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh were all considered separate races.  Under that sort of definition, a group that originates from India would definitely be considered a different race from anyone else in Europe.

That being said, I don't think it's a particularly useful concept.

gfid: Trust me, Stephen Colbert is a farking moran.


25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-27 11:35:57 AM
My mom used to threaten to give me to the gypsies. By the time I was 9 or so and becoming snarky, I would tell her she's welcome to go find some in our crappy rural desert town.

My dad told us he was going to give us back to the Indians. My parents are farked up, lol.
 
2013-10-27 11:55:01 AM

Dextro: I think I was angered by about every 5th or 6th post in this thread. It seems as though many of you aren't capable of reading comprehension or thoughtful dialogue. Why must such willful idiocy exist?

Nevermind, my question clearly isn't capable of being answered intelligently by this crowd.


Welcome to Fark.

/now go away
 
2013-10-27 12:04:17 PM
Gee, what a gyp.
 
2013-10-27 12:11:31 PM

HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.


Nicole Ritchie is a Gypsy?
 
2013-10-27 01:26:08 PM

Valiente: HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.

Nicole Ritchie is a Gypsy?


No, but the Kardashians obviously are. Armenian Roma.
 
2013-10-27 01:45:50 PM

Fissile: ambercat: Gyrfalcon: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

The Roma consider themselves a different race. All the things you cite are because they are a distinct ethnic group and they prefer to keep it that way.

After Hitler got through with the Roma genocide, there were barely enough true Roma people to keep the bloodlines going, and they like being culturally and ethnically distinct from everyone, even at the expense of being considered criminals. As to why they don't "just assimilate", well, I guess you could say the same thing of the Jews or the Kurds. Why don't they just assimilate like everyone else?

How have Jews not assimilated into countries that would let them? They retain their own religion, but Jews have always assimilated culturally into other countries in every way that doesn't violate their relgion. Where ever they are able to, they are involved in the broader community, involved in politics, involved in interfaith projects, involved in charities. The clothes they wear or the way Jews cook in Italy is different than the way Jews in America or Spain or Israel. Southern Jews developed different culinary traditions than the ones who settled in New York. They always learn how to speak the local language in addition to any others they can speak.

===================

I'm guessing you've never been to New York?  Do you know what the Hasidim are all about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York


The Hasidim are a small percentage of the Jews in NYC. Most have assimilated quite nicely. And Kosher delis are the best, hands down.
 
2013-10-27 02:37:08 PM
Wait, I thought Europeans weren't racist? Only us lowly Americans would do something like that.
 
2013-10-27 03:03:19 PM

Valiente: HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.

Nicole Ritchie is a Gypsy?


Are you serious?  I thought everyone knew she was adopted.  She's the daughter of one of his backing musicians, who died around the same time as Nicole's mother.
 
2013-10-27 03:06:48 PM

Roy_G_Biv: Valiente: HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.

Nicole Ritchie is a Gypsy?

Are you serious?  I thought everyone knew she was adopted.  She's the daughter of one of his backing musicians, who died around the same time as Nicole's mother.


Sorry, they did not die.  They were just poor.
 
2013-10-27 03:44:30 PM

Fissile: You don't know what you are talking about. The DNA evidence PROVES that the majority of people who self identify as Roma have origins in northern India and not Europe.


Yeah, I do know what I'm talking about.  I don't consider Indians to be a separate race either.  They seem to be the same race as I am.  They are human.

Just because you think in terms of skin color or ethnicity and judge people based on that doesn't mean that we are all different races.

I would feel the same if Roma came from friggin' Antarctica.  That doesn't mean they're not human, but the Roma CULTURE hangs on to their ways not because of their DNA but because a lot of them are scum who want to live outside the law.
 
2013-10-27 03:51:35 PM

gfid: Fissile: You don't know what you are talking about. The DNA evidence PROVES that the majority of people who self identify as Roma have origins in northern India and not Europe.

Yeah, I do know what I'm talking about.  I don't consider Indians to be a separate race either.  They seem to be the same race as I am.  They are human.

Just because you think in terms of skin color or ethnicity and judge people based on that doesn't mean that we are all different races.

I would feel the same if Roma came from friggin' Antarctica.  That doesn't mean they're not human, but the Roma CULTURE hangs on to their ways not because of their DNA but because a lot of them are scum who want to live outside the law.


Race is a human construct that describes nothing based in science. It's a useless concept.
 
2013-10-27 04:00:55 PM

Bacontastesgood: adamatari: The Greek case is a perfect example - they explained the circumstances, which happened to be true, and yet it's been made out like they were trafficking in children.

You mean the 4th story they told the police turned out to be true.  The first three were (1) she's our biological kid, no realli (2) my wife had an affair with some blond dude (3) something else fishy.

I heard a sympathetic reporter who visited the family on the radio today.  She said when she got to the house, they told her to wait outside.  She saw a bunch of children streaming behind the house carrying things from a neighbor's.  After a while, they let her in to see the "little girl's room" which was obviously the only bedroom available for all the kids, but had been made up to look like only hers and filled with toys and stuff.

So, you know, when you constantly deceive people even after they have you dead to rights, you might expect them not to believe anything you say.


I did an extensive research report on roma when i was in hs.

It's a deeply held cultural value to lie as much as possible to non-romani. They don't lie to one another though.
 
2013-10-27 04:02:56 PM

Fissile: Danger Avoid Death: KeelingLovesCornholes: Danger Avoid Death: Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:

She was Pakistani or afghan, can remember precisely but it certainly wasn't anywhere near this story. You should see her now *shiver*

She was an Afghani refugee living in a refugee camp in Pakistan, where the picture was taken, during the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Her name is Sharbat Gula.

==================

"Afghani is not an ethnicity.   Afghanistan is the name of the country.  The majority of Afghans belong to the Pashtun tribal group.  Sharbat Gula is a Pashtun.  This is what she looks like now.


Yes, Afghani is not an ethnicity, it's a nationality.

Why did you feel the need to (erroneously) correct that?
 
2013-10-27 04:44:27 PM

o'really: Fissile: Danger Avoid Death: KeelingLovesCornholes: Danger Avoid Death: Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:

She was Pakistani or afghan, can remember precisely but it certainly wasn't anywhere near this story. You should see her now *shiver*

She was an Afghani refugee living in a refugee camp in Pakistan, where the picture was taken, during the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Her name is Sharbat Gula.

==================

"Afghani is not an ethnicity.   Afghanistan is the name of the country.  The majority of Afghans belong to the Pashtun tribal group.  Sharbat Gula is a Pashtun.  This is what she looks like now.

Yes, Afghani is not an ethnicity, it's a nationality.

Why did you feel the need to (erroneously) correct that?


=================

Because you're a typical Murican dumbfark who believes the rest of the world thinks as you do.  In most parts of the world,  nationality is meaningless, ethnic/tribal affiliation is everything.    You just keep on being a boorish Murican who believes everyone wants to be Murican.
 
2013-10-27 04:58:31 PM

Fissile: "Afghani is not an ethnicity.   Afghanistan is the name of the country.  The majority of Afghans belong to the Pashtun tribal group.  Sharbat Gula is a Pashtun.  This is what she looks like now.

Yes, Afghani is not an ethnicity, it's a nationality.

Why did you feel the need to (erroneously) correct that?

=================

Because you're a typical Murican dumbfark who believes the rest of the world thinks as you do.  In most parts of the world,  nationality is meaningless, ethnic/tribal affiliation is everything.    You just keep on being a boorish Murican who believes everyone wants to be Murican.


I doubt that Afghanistan is really a country, except for some lines drawn on a map.
 
2013-10-27 07:03:38 PM

No Such Agency: HempHead: And the English.
Blimey, that's one fantasy shattered :(
[www.productsofanidlemind.com image 762x428]



Right fictional universe, but wrong WPC.

thumbs3.ebaystatic.com
 
2013-10-27 10:37:22 PM

Fissile: ambercat: Gyrfalcon: gfid: Do we consider Italians or Spaniards to be a separate race? Maybe you do, but I don't.

The Roma consider themselves a different race. All the things you cite are because they are a distinct ethnic group and they prefer to keep it that way.

After Hitler got through with the Roma genocide, there were barely enough true Roma people to keep the bloodlines going, and they like being culturally and ethnically distinct from everyone, even at the expense of being considered criminals. As to why they don't "just assimilate", well, I guess you could say the same thing of the Jews or the Kurds. Why don't they just assimilate like everyone else?

How have Jews not assimilated into countries that would let them? They retain their own religion, but Jews have always assimilated culturally into other countries in every way that doesn't violate their relgion. Where ever they are able to, they are involved in the broader community, involved in politics, involved in interfaith projects, involved in charities. The clothes they wear or the way Jews cook in Italy is different than the way Jews in America or Spain or Israel. Southern Jews developed different culinary traditions than the ones who settled in New York. They always learn how to speak the local language in addition to any others they can speak.

===================

I'm guessing you've never been to New York?  Do you know what the Hasidim are all about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York


ambercat made an excellent post. The Hasidim are to all Jews like Westboro is to all Christians. Though in all fairness, that block of Hasidim need to be rooted out of there using RICO or something. They throw rocks at women passing through just because they're dressed "immodestly."

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: I'm just curious as to why the Roma don't use campgrounds or is it because they are not allowed to or can't afford them? The ones I've seen tend to use large municipal parking lots for a day or two before being chased away.


It's because they don't want to. They feel they have the right to go squat wherever, and that's a big part of why people generally don't like them. They'll roll in overnight with their caravan and do things like take over public parks until forced to leave. It might not sound like much, but when sudden;y public space is gone and they don't set up proper sanitation and have 8457935793583057037 dirty kids running all over the place...yea.
 
2013-10-27 11:38:48 PM
You mean gypsies?
 
2013-10-27 11:44:08 PM

Fissile: o'really: Fissile: Danger Avoid Death: KeelingLovesCornholes: Danger Avoid Death: Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:

She was Pakistani or afghan, can remember precisely but it certainly wasn't anywhere near this story. You should see her now *shiver*

She was an Afghani refugee living in a refugee camp in Pakistan, where the picture was taken, during the Soviet invasion and occupation of Afghanistan. Her name is Sharbat Gula.

==================

"Afghani is not an ethnicity.   Afghanistan is the name of the country.  The majority of Afghans belong to the Pashtun tribal group.  Sharbat Gula is a Pashtun.  This is what she looks like now.

Yes, Afghani is not an ethnicity, it's a nationality.

Why did you feel the need to (erroneously) correct that?

=================

Because you're a typical Murican dumbfark who believes the rest of the world thinks as you do.  In most parts of the world,  nationality is meaningless, ethnic/tribal affiliation is everything.    You just keep on being a boorish Murican who believes everyone wants to be Murican.


0/10

Weak attempt. Unoriginal.
 
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