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(The New York Times)   Roma parents fear that, in the wake of the "blond angel" case in Greece, they may have their kids taken away because people don't realize that, yes, Roma people can have blond hair   (nytimes.com) divider line 185
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4892 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Oct 2013 at 8:05 PM (36 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-26 08:55:59 PM
And I hope they're right. No child should have to grow up as a gypsie.
 
2013-10-26 08:57:00 PM
Yes, but the blond-haired gypsies are probably just the offspring of other stolen blond-haired kids!

/couldn't resist
 
2013-10-26 08:58:59 PM

DarkLancelot: HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.

Both my parents were dark haired but I was blonde as can be until my teens when it darkened out.  This is just an excuse for the European Right to get some Roma hate going.


Happened with both my brother and sister- their hair was really pale blonde until about age 10, when it started turning into various shades of brown. My brother hovered around red for a little bit, and we were kinda hoping for that, but no dice. He got the Irish side more than my sister or I, so it would have fit.

Mine went from a lighter brown to a nearly black brown, so a less dramatic change.

Long story short, lots of people start with lighter hair then they wind up with.
 
2013-10-26 09:01:25 PM

simplicimus: Kygz:


traylor: Kygz:


Yep, you're both right as rain, and I knew that.  I don't know why I type it that way.  Maybe because my girlfriend's cousin is Romanian and was adopted by an Irish family as a baby and feels the twing of being obviously brownish in the western counties of Ireland.
 
2013-10-26 09:02:35 PM
They'll steal anything, even genes.
 
2013-10-26 09:04:02 PM

LemSkroob: SithLord: You know who else didn't like the Roma?

everyone????

And let's stop referring to them as 'people'. That's an insult to the rest of humanity.


Oh right, it's not an international news thread until the elegant pinnacle of civilized thought, LemSkroob, has shown up to call some ethnic group "savages" and such. Fark off, dude, your shiat is tired.
 
2013-10-26 09:05:26 PM
My Mom grew up near the Canadian border in WA. Apparently, this group got naked & blocked roads protesting. Her Grandma always said they'd steal her away. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/m/article.cfm?params=A1&id=A000 2376
 
2013-10-26 09:05:40 PM

ReverendJynxed: I was only seventeen
I fell in love with a gypsy queen
She told me, "Hold on"
Her father was the leading man
Said, "You're not welcome on our land"
And then as a foe, he told me to go...


Gypsy Queen, eh?
I though you would prefer easy livin'
 
2013-10-26 09:08:05 PM

Feel_the_velvet: We were moving a friend out of an apartment.  Had a truck on the street.  A Chicago cop came over and asked us some questions - said they were having a problem with gypsies posing as moving companies and stealing peoples' shiat.

This was in 2001.

Gypsies were still stealing peoples' shiat in 2001!


One of my friends worked security at Planet Hollywood in Chicago back in 96. He said their biggest problem were Gypsies coming in and using fake $50 bills to pay for a $10 meal.
 
2013-10-26 09:11:14 PM
The chicks in the picture look like they smell really bad. Just imagime the huge orange bush on that ginger.
 
2013-10-26 09:12:08 PM

Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.


Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-10-26 09:12:37 PM

namegoeshere: Salem Witch: My mom told me that her mother always warned her about gypsies stealing her when she was a little girl.

Really grandma? That was a big problem in the 30's? In Iowa?

My parents bought me from the gypsies. Really. My big brother told me.


Are you my little sister? I told her that all the time growing up.
 
2013-10-26 09:13:16 PM

Anderson's Pooper: namegoeshere: Salem Witch: My mom told me that her mother always warned her about gypsies stealing her when she was a little girl.

Really grandma? That was a big problem in the 30's? In Iowa?

My parents bought me from the gypsies. Really. My big brother told me.

I've told my son that we bought him from the gypsies.  I've also told him we still had the receipt and would sell him back if he didn't act better.


Raised by wolves is our go to.  I've also told him my mother in law and his aunt were born with vastigial tails and had them cut off.
 
2013-10-26 09:17:42 PM

jamspoon: HotWingAgenda: People recognize that "roma" can be blonde. The trouble is when you see two adults who are black haired and swarthy skinned, with a little girl who has pale skin and platinum blonde hair. The logical assumption when the child doesn't look even slightly related to the adults is that they were either adopted or kidnapped.

What twins might look like.
[www.hoax-slayer.com image 383x250]
Genes can do strange things. Partly because we think skin colour is more important than the other features


So true.  My father was black, mother white.  I have features/hair of a black person but white skin.  I was told I was full of shiat for years.   Mind you in the day, people used to think that brown eyes always trumped blue.
 
2013-10-26 09:22:13 PM
The whole, 'I can't afford a child, here random lady, you take her,' thing reminds me of the tragic case of Sylvia Likens from the 60s. Sylvia and her sister were "farmed out" due to poverty, and the foster parent abused her, starved her, and orchestrated her own and the neighborhood children into torturing her to death.
Only this Roma girl is alive and no one is saying she was tortured.
By the way I think the vivid red hair we are seeing in these pictures of Roma children is the result of henna dye. Henna is a plant-based dye that is believed to have protective powers. It is also not nearly as stinky and gross as synthetic hair dye; it can also strengthen the hair follicle. Maybe they caregivers are not trying to conceal the children. Red isn't exactly camouflage, is it?
There are a lot of assumptions flying around about these 'poor little blonde girls.' I would rather we talk about systematic disenfranchisement of the Roma, educational failings, and rural poverty. That conversation could actually help a lot more children.
 
2013-10-26 09:22:49 PM

Primitive Screwhead: ReverendJynxed: I was only seventeen
I fell in love with a gypsy queen
She told me, "Hold on"
Her father was the leading man
Said, "You're not welcome on our land"
And then as a foe, he told me to go...

Gypsy Queen, eh?
I though you would prefer easy livin'


Personally I stick with:
People say I'm no-good,
And crazy as a loon.
I get stoned in the morning, 
I get drunk in the afternoon.
Kinda like my old blue tick hound, 
I like to lay around in the shade,
An', I ain't got no money,
But I damn sure got it made.
 
2013-10-26 09:24:46 PM

insertsnarkyusername: Why the fark are they dying and bleaching infants hair?


Weirdly enough I had a Romanian friend (not Roma) who had dark hair but light skin. Her husband also looked like a non-descript dark haired European. They had two blond children who looked like their hair had been bleached because their hair colour did not go with their skin tone (which seemed almost middle eastern). It was very strange.

I also know an actual Roma dude (Hungarian) whose darker skin tone made sense once I found out he was Roma.
 
2013-10-26 09:28:46 PM

SithLord: You know who else didn't like the Roma?


media.zenfs.com
Lazio?
 
2013-10-26 09:29:48 PM

iwantamonkey: The whole, 'I can't afford a child, here random lady, you take her,' thing reminds me of the tragic case of Sylvia Likens from the 60s. Sylvia and her sister were "farmed out" due to poverty, and the foster parent abused her, starved her, and orchestrated her own and the neighborhood children into torturing her to death.
Only this Roma girl is alive and no one is saying she was tortured.
By the way I think the vivid red hair we are seeing in these pictures of Roma children is the result of henna dye. Henna is a plant-based dye that is believed to have protective powers. It is also not nearly as stinky and gross as synthetic hair dye; it can also strengthen the hair follicle. Maybe they caregivers are not trying to conceal the children. Red isn't exactly camouflage, is it?
There are a lot of assumptions flying around about these 'poor little blonde girls.' I would rather we talk about systematic disenfranchisement of the Roma, educational failings, and rural poverty. That conversation could actually help a lot more children.


I spent a couple years in Greece while in my late teens.  One of the most impactful memories I have was when Lybia was bombed.  There was mayhem in the streets (protesters and such) and while walking through the square a circle of police harassing a wee boy.  He was Roma and they would push him around the circle taunting him.  I commented and I was dismissed by my Greek friend as "they are only gypsies".  I am not suprised that they grow up angry and against society.
 
2013-10-26 09:31:55 PM

Feel_the_velvet: We were moving a friend out of an apartment.  Had a truck on the street.  A Chicago cop came over and asked us some questions - said they were having a problem with gypsies posing as moving companies and stealing peoples' shiat.

This was in 2001.

Gypsies were still stealing peoples' shiat in 2001!


They're still stealing people's shiat today.  And they'll be doing it tomorrow.  They'll steal shiat that has little to no value.  Like a TV remote or a roll of paper towels or whatever else they can get their hands on.  If you have something that has absolutely zero resale value but you need, don't assume it's safe.
 
2013-10-26 09:33:18 PM
So rednecks aren't exclusive to the US?
 
2013-10-26 09:38:22 PM
If a black couple were to have an albino child and dhs showed up and claimed the kid was stolen that would start a fight everyone would hear about. But no one wants to think about how other places treat minorities.
 
2013-10-26 09:38:23 PM
Well, the New York Times printed an article about how the Romani are primitive criminals, so I guess even getting gassed by Hitler wasn't enough to put them on the "unacceptable to hate publicly" list.

Seriously, if this was 1920 it would be the Jews and homosexuals, but somehow Romani still get shiat on this level? The Greek case is a perfect example - they explained the circumstances, which happened to be true, and yet it's been made out like they were trafficking in children.

I guess they should agitate for a homeland, so the next time they get genocided they can take a turn being in charge. Maybe Hungary.
 
2013-10-26 09:40:06 PM

content6.flixster.comCog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

 
2013-10-26 09:41:12 PM

Danger Avoid Death: Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 570x827]


images.static-bluray.com

"Egg Shen... EGG SHEN! You have come a long ways to find me. But it is too late. There are two girls with green eyes, and I will marry them both. And then I will sacrifice Gracie Law to appease my emperor and live out my earthly pleasures with Miao Yin."
 
2013-10-26 09:43:03 PM
This is troubling. Will the tears of a blond gypsy still protect me against disease?
 
2013-10-26 09:58:06 PM

SithLord: You know who else didn't like the Roma?


images.wikia.com
 
2013-10-26 10:02:27 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Actually it's not.


That's quite a confident assertion.
I wonder, do you have any samples beyond your own family to back you up?
Your family may be anomalous.  That's the reason actual scientific studies use n > 1.
 
2013-10-26 10:07:30 PM
I thought that whole incident was quite racist.
 
2013-10-26 10:11:30 PM

Savage Belief: So rednecks aren't exclusive to the US?


One might also consider wetback or raghead as appropriate ethnic slurs with which to malign these people.
 
2013-10-26 10:11:59 PM
You know, a couple of months back I saw a swarthy couple with a VERY blonde child in their shopping cart at Wal*Mart...

It never occurred to me that they may have been Gypsies shopping for take-out...
 
2013-10-26 10:12:52 PM

whatshisname: I thought that whole incident was quite racist.



And???
 
2013-10-26 10:18:04 PM

12349876: gfid: And in the case from Greece, DNA proved it wasn't their biological daughter and there doesn't seem to be any documentation to back up their story of just helping out a young mother who couldn't care for her newborn daughter.

They found the mother of that kid in Bulgaria, also Roma.  That mother in Bulglaria made the same claim, but authorities are suspecting there was a bit of a financial transaction too,


I should really follow up on stories before I comment.



Link confirming what you said

The disturbing part to me is this:


The girl was seven months old when they had to return to Bulgaria, and she said she could not afford to take the child with her.

Are you kidding me? How can you just decide that you can't afford a child that you brought into this world? I know everyone isn't as well off as me, but it does sound like a horrible choice to make and even if she couldn't afford to travel with her baby then, why didn't she try to get her back?

She's not saying she gave her child up for adoption. She's not saying she left her under the care of another family until she could get back on her feet. She's saying her daughter was too much of a financial strain to deal with.

WTF? She had TEN siblings? Seriously, WTF is wrong with these people. Do they not know about birth control? It's no wonder they just leave their kids where they drop under the care of people they hardly know.

I really do suspect there was a financial arrangement. "If she'd been sold, we'd have a much bigger house on 2 floors, not like this" said some guy who is presumably the father.

The part about 10 siblings and the quote from her presumed father is what I just saw on Sky News on TV, so no link, sorry.

And like I said before, what makes "Roma" people so special? They could easily integrate into European society, but instead they just cling to their caravans and pop out a dozen children and expect the government to care for them.

And then they give (perhaps sell, but no proof of that yet) their children away to other families?

I know it sounds sort of racist to say this although I'm not sure what "race" Roma people are, but it's no wonder why they're so hated.
 
2013-10-26 10:18:12 PM

Amos Quito: whatshisname: I thought that whole incident was quite racist.


And???


And I am moving to Eastern Europe to start a Roma support group.
 
2013-10-26 10:18:49 PM

adamatari: Well, the New York Times printed an article about how the Romani are primitive criminals, so I guess even getting gassed by Hitler wasn't enough to put them on the "unacceptable to hate publicly" list.

Seriously, if this was 1920 it would be the Jews and homosexuals, but somehow Romani still get shiat on this level? The Greek case is a perfect example - they explained the circumstances, which happened to be true, and yet it's been made out like they were trafficking in children.

I guess they should agitate for a homeland, so the next time they get genocided they can take a turn being in charge. Maybe Hungary.


I think it is part of Roma culture not to belong to any country. Apparently, they've been wandering for 1100 years and show no inclination to stop. On the other hand, they must have passports to cross countries, so I don't know how that works.
 
2013-10-26 10:20:36 PM
 Capturing increasing national frustration with the Roma, a prominent story in the April issue of the popular magazine Paris Match showed eight pages of photographs of young Roma pickpockets brazenly targeting tourists at bank machines, Metro stations and museums like the Louvre.

But Roma advocates counter that if there is crime among some Roma, it is the byproduct of severe economic deprivation and social exclusion that allowed a minority of unscrupulous ringleaders to exploit poor people desperately eking out an existence on society's fringes.


Being poor is no excuse for breaking the law.

 
2013-10-26 10:30:25 PM
romanians and roma arent actually the same thing
 
2013-10-26 10:35:54 PM

Danger Avoid Death: Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.

Which reminds me of this famous National Geographic cover photo from 1985. I might still have this issue in a box somewhere:


She was Pakistani or afghan, can remember precisely but it certainly wasn't anywhere near this story. You should see her now *shiver*
 
2013-10-26 10:36:43 PM
romani are decendents from a tribe that left india a thousand years ago to wander the near east and europe. romania is a country in central europe named fro rome and populated mostly by slavs
 
2013-10-26 10:37:04 PM

jamspoon: Genes can do strange things. Partly because we think skin colour is more important than the other features


I was looking at the picture of the girl and her parents, ignore the skin color and it's obvious the kid looks like her mother.

Cog Spinner: This reminds me of a National Geographic show or some other reputable show (Not Inside Edition, for fark's sake) that studied some nomadic tribes in Mongolia or Siberia, I forget which as it has been at least 10 years ago when I saw it, that had a few blonde headed/blue eyed kids here and there when everyone else in those tribes had black hair and brown eyes. Turns out scientists guessed it was because of the Vikings who...well...had a part in that. Viking DNA: the gift that keeps on giving.


True story, friend did some consulting in Kabul back when no one did consulting in Kabul. He's blond blue eyed.  He grew his beard out before he went, but said with that no one on the street gave him a second look. Essentially that part of the world is part of the old silk road, people have been migrating back and forth through there for thousands of years.  You see every type of hair color and eyes.

whatshisname: I thought that whole incident was quite racist.


Not to mention really stupid.
 
2013-10-26 10:37:10 PM

bestie1: romanians and roma arent actually the same thing


Are you trying to say they're not from Rome?
 
2013-10-26 10:42:46 PM
Non-passport holding Muricans, which make up the majority of Muricans, have no understanding of the gypsy problem in Europe.  All Americans know about gypsies is what they've seen in popular media.  Americans believe the gypsies are a group of people who wear colorful costumes and love to sing and dance, but are otherwise harmless.

First off, the gypsies ARE not Europeans, and DNA studies prove it.  The gypsies originated in northern India, and wandered into Turkey.  The gypsies entered Europe through the Balkans during the Turkish invasions of Europe.  The reasons why gypsies are so despised in southern and eastern Europe is because they are an every present reminder of the humiliations various Europeans were subjected to under the Turks.  Keep in mind that the the last of the Turks weren't ejected from Europe until 1908., which as European history goes may as well be last week.

Most gypsies have no intention of acting like Europeans.  Their culture was set long before they got to Europe.  They live the way they do, because THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY.  During the communist years, the reds attempted to force the gypsies into permanent housing and met with little success.

As for blond gypos, they are rare, but they exist.  It's common for gypsy women to work as prostitutes, many of them pimped out by their own husbands or other male family members.  In recent years gypsy prostitutes have figured out a new way to make money.  Get pregnant by a white customer and hope for a fair skinned baby which they attempt to sell to childless European or American couples.
 
2013-10-26 10:46:01 PM
Yeah - if you traffic kids, people do tend to think poorly of you for it.
 
2013-10-26 10:48:39 PM

Fissile: Non-passport holding Muricans, which make up the majority of Muricans, have no understanding of the gypsy problem in Europe.  All Americans know about gypsies is what they've seen in popular media.  Americans believe the gypsies are a group of people who wear colorful costumes and love to sing and dance, but are otherwise harmless.

First off, the gypsies ARE not Europeans, and DNA studies prove it.  The gypsies originated in northern India, and wandered into Turkey.  The gypsies entered Europe through the Balkans during the Turkish invasions of Europe.  The reasons why gypsies are so despised in southern and eastern Europe is because they are an every present reminder of the humiliations various Europeans were subjected to under the Turks.  Keep in mind that the the last of the Turks weren't ejected from Europe until 1908., which as European history goes may as well be last week.

Most gypsies have no intention of acting like Europeans.  Their culture was set long before they got to Europe.  They live the way they do, because THEY LIKE IT THAT WAY.  During the communist years, the reds attempted to force the gypsies into permanent housing and met with little success.

As for blond gypos, they are rare, but they exist.  It's common for gypsy women to work as prostitutes, many of them pimped out by their own husbands or other male family members.  In recent years gypsy prostitutes have figured out a new way to make money.  Get pregnant by a white customer and hope for a fair skinned baby which they attempt to sell to childless European or American couples.


Why do you use the term "Murrican" and try to come off so high and mighty and assume we know nothing about Roma?

Maybe you should learn some more about Americans and stop using terms which you intend to be offensive.

You probably don't know this, but most Americans are of European descent, but we are a diverse nation and many of of us roots in Asia, Africa and South America as well.
 
2013-10-26 10:49:05 PM

Gawdzila: Marcus Aurelius: Actually it's not.

That's quite a confident assertion.
I wonder, do you have any samples beyond your own family to back you up?
Your family may be anomalous.  That's the reason actual scientific studies use n > 1.


Make your count n=3. Me and all my cousins started as blondies, but only 3 out of 15 stayed that way after puberty. And in my boyfriend's family, he, his full brother and his half brother started as blondies. His half brother has dark brown hair now.

Blonde kids going brown is actually quite common.
 
2013-10-26 10:50:33 PM

bestie1: romani are decendents from a tribe that left india a thousand years ago to wander the near east and europe. romania is a country in central europe named fro rome and populated mostly by slavs


Romanians are not Slavs.

/their name comes from the time of the Roman Empire meaning "citizens of Rome", you got an extra point for that
 
2013-10-26 10:50:47 PM

phunkey_monkey: Being poor is no excuse for breaking the law.


But apparently being rich is. Bankers, especially.
 
2013-10-26 10:51:00 PM

whatshisname: Amos Quito: whatshisname: I thought that whole incident was quite racist.


And???

And I am moving to Eastern Europe to start a Roma support group.



RIGHT ON. DUDE!

But moving to Eastern Europe? I don't think so.

If you want to raise money for the Roma, go where the  MONEY IS - in the USofA!

/Get on it, friend
//Raise them funds!
///Those Roma aren't going to feed themselves, now are they?
 
2013-10-26 11:05:05 PM
If only there was some way of registering a child as having been born to you, some official, I dunno, certificate??

Oh, wait, there is.

Roma never use it.  Usually in breach of the local law that specifically requires you to register a birth for this very reason (amongst others).
 
2013-10-26 11:06:16 PM

simplicimus: adamatari: Well, the New York Times printed an article about how the Romani are primitive criminals, so I guess even getting gassed by Hitler wasn't enough to put them on the "unacceptable to hate publicly" list.

Seriously, if this was 1920 it would be the Jews and homosexuals, but somehow Romani still get shiat on this level? The Greek case is a perfect example - they explained the circumstances, which happened to be true, and yet it's been made out like they were trafficking in children.

I guess they should agitate for a homeland, so the next time they get genocided they can take a turn being in charge. Maybe Hungary.

I think it is part of Roma culture not to belong to any country. Apparently, they've been wandering for 1100 years and show no inclination to stop. On the other hand, they must have passports to cross countries, so I don't know how that works.


Apparently they are related to the Travellers people who can never settle anywhere because the guy who created the Nails that were used on the cross follow them.
Look if you want to get out of your financial hell you obey the laws of the land, learn to cut back on the mega dresses and weddings, stop being such ass holes to your kids and women with your backwoods catholic traditions, get a job, get a home and start cutin' back on the baby making and get an education. Once you do that for a a generation or two you'll see people's attitudes change.
 
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