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(SFGate)   Apartment rentals in San Francisco are so costly, it's cheaper to live in Boise and commute by airplane everyday   (sfgate.com) divider line 159
    More: Followup, San Francisco, Boise, South of Market, apartments, airplanes  
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12146 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2013 at 6:19 PM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-25 04:40:03 PM
http://priceonomics.com/the-san-francisco-rent-explosion/

As long as the only major city with significant mass transit connections to Silicon Valley is SF (because software hipsters make way too much farking money), and SF absolutely refuses to add more housing, and SF refuses to make the mass transit run faster so that you can live in Richmond and work in SOMA and not have a hour-ish commute (and in turn, live in Richmond and work in the Valley and not have a 2-hour commute), SF is going to be overpriced, because you couldn't pay me enough to deal with Bay Area traffic.

Also, link the East Bay to the Valley in a reasonable fashion (preferably via Dumbarton Rail or finishing BART through SJ and then giving Caltrain more funding so that I'm not trying to schedule my life around explicit trains).

/Seriously, this isn't hard.  Add more housing such that after the software people you still have room and provide an escape valve into the East Bay and housing prices will go down.  They won't ever be low (mountains and water and the fact that the weather sucks the more you get away from SF proper), but they'll be lower.
 
2013-10-25 04:53:05 PM
Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).
 
2013-10-25 04:59:35 PM
 
2013-10-25 05:08:44 PM

ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).


I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.
 
2013-10-25 05:20:57 PM

mediablitz: ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).

I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.


It's a money thing.  That's why I'm such a fan of getting some 0 to 1 transfer mass transit into the Valley from the East Bay.  

My roommate works at Google.

She lives in Mountain View, paying ~$1100/month for rent and utilities for half of a meh 2BR, 1BA apartment.  The places across the street from here (that don't have lead paint and asbestos and termites) start at $3000/month for a 1 BR/1 BA apartment and go up to $6K for a 2 BR/2 BA apartment.  There is a waiting list for these places.

However, one of her co-workers lives in Livermore.  He bought a house for $1200/month.

The Cost of Living differential is so crazily huge that it can be worth it for some people to do the Altamont->San Mateo Bridge Commute (or in the case of your relatives, Sunol.  Fark Sunol.  They need like an 8 lane highway through there because it's the ONLY road and there's no mass transit)
 
2013-10-25 05:48:41 PM

meyerkev: http://priceonomics.com/the-san-francisco-rent-explosion/

As long as the only major city with significant mass transit connections to Silicon Valley is SF (because software hipsters make way too much farking money), and SF absolutely refuses to add more housing, and SF refuses to make the mass transit run faster so that you can live in Richmond and work in SOMA and not have a hour-ish commute (and in turn, live in Richmond and work in the Valley and not have a 2-hour commute), SF is going to be overpriced, because you couldn't pay me enough to deal with Bay Area traffic.

Also, link the East Bay to the Valley in a reasonable fashion (preferably via Dumbarton Rail or finishing BART through SJ and then giving Caltrain more funding so that I'm not trying to schedule my life around explicit trains).

/Seriously, this isn't hard.  Add more housing such that after the software people you still have room and provide an escape valve into the East Bay and housing prices will go down.  They won't ever be low (mountains and water and the fact that the weather sucks the more you get away from SF proper), but they'll be lower.


Why would anybody who owns property in the Bay Area vote for more mass transit? Housing values would go down. Unless I'm missing something, it seems unlikely that BART would ever get expanded to be practical and useful.
 
2013-10-25 05:54:03 PM
Yes but you have to live in Boise
 
2013-10-25 05:57:20 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Yes but you have to live sleep in Boise


You'd only have to see Boise by night if you had a heavy work schedule.
 
2013-10-25 05:58:17 PM

meyerkev: mediablitz: ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).

I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.

It's a money thing.  That's why I'm such a fan of getting some 0 to 1 transfer mass transit into the Valley from the East Bay.
My roommate works at Google.

She lives in Mountain View, paying ~$1100/month for rent and utilities for half of a meh 2BR, 1BA apartment.  The places across the street from here (that don't have lead paint and asbestos and termites) start at $3000/month for a 1 BR/1 BA apartment and go up to $6K for a 2 BR/2 BA apartment.  There is a waiting list for these places.

However, one of her co-workers lives in Livermore.  He bought a house for $1200/month.

The Cost of Living differential is so crazily huge that it can be worth it for some people to do the Altamont->San Mateo Bridge Commute (or in the case of your relatives, Sunol.  Fark Sunol.  They need like an 8 lane highway through there because it's the ONLY road and there's no mass transit)


I don't miss living in the Bay Area at all. I was lucky Adobe's tech support was in Santa Clara at the time. 10 minute commute.

That Sunol windy road shiat is the worst. Nothing can go wrong or you are farked. I would have felt bad for the in-laws if they weren't such douchebags ;-)
 
2013-10-25 06:03:51 PM
Just moved back to the Bay Area 2 months ago after being gone for 6 years. Really enjoying being back here. Apartment is expensive, but considering I was moving from Chelsea, its still cheaper.
 
2013-10-25 06:23:29 PM
d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net
the girl in the article, leah volger
 
2013-10-25 06:24:59 PM

Speaker2Animals: Funny, submitter.

http://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper- to -rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/


I sense a new meme coming on:

"Apartment rentals in {location1} are so costly, it's cheaper to live in {location2} and commute by {means of transportation} everyday."

Apartment rentals in Davenport, IA are so costly, it's cheaper to live on the surface of the Sun and commute by quantum tunneling everyday.
 
2013-10-25 06:26:04 PM
Planning on escaping the Bay Area. The refusal to build more housing here is destroying the quality of life. Id rather make half as much and have no mortgage than deal with this, the bad traffic, etc. That coupled with the terrible schools, the fiscal issues of the state itself, the bad traffic and the work environments which are becoming increasingly hostile.
 
2013-10-25 06:26:24 PM
Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.
 
2013-10-25 06:29:04 PM

ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).


Ah, I lived there during the boom as well. Got out just before the crash. And I thought paying $1,100 a month for a one bedroom in the Mission was a lot (1997 or so).


echomike23: [d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net image 850x566]
the girl in the article, leah volger


Hey, that's not San Francisco...
 
2013-10-25 06:30:11 PM
I'd rather live in Boise than Frisco. I know, I know, I'm an uncultured rube.
 
2013-10-25 06:30:55 PM
I know a couple San Francisco area firefighters who work in California and live in Boise.

They fly in for the start of their shift, work 4 days, then fly home, for 7 days off before they have to go back.   Make 6 figure salaries, which go a long ways towards nice housing in Idaho
 
2013-10-25 06:32:11 PM
I don't remember BART being insufficient for getting across east bay.  I was looking in the Emeryville area when one of my long term contracts was looking like it was going to be a reasonable full time position.  Never had to rent a vehicle the entire 6 months with the Emery-go-Round, BART and everything else.  Seems pretty easy to get around there, even moreso than LA with the Metrolink & rail.
 
2013-10-25 06:33:01 PM

fusillade762: ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).

Ah, I lived there during the boom as well. Got out just before the crash. And I thought paying $1,100 a month for a one bedroom in the Mission was a lot (1997 or so).


echomike23: [d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net image 850x566]
the girl in the article, leah volger

Hey, that's not San Francisco...


That looks like it needs the CN tower in the background.
 
2013-10-25 06:34:24 PM

SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.


So living on the peninsula, I hear Oakland described as "ghetto" and "you will get shot."  However, this is from a person who got driven to prom in a Corvette and described downtown Sunnyvale as ghetto because "there were lots of mexicans walking around".

From what I hear elsewhere:

There's a bunch of neighborhoods on BART and near SF that are gentrifying like mad.
There's a bunch of neighborhoods that I wouldn't touch with a 50 foot pole.
I couldn't tell you what those neighborhoods are because I live in Mountain View and getting up to Oakland is going to take at least 90 minutes if there's daylight out (because 880 is that farked up even on a Saturday) so I don't go there.  At all.  Ever.

The combination of #1 and #2 means that neighborhoods that you want to live in cost way more than you'd expect from that number.
 
2013-10-25 06:34:30 PM
Boise is a 4.5 hour flight in a Cessna, most planes like that burn around 12 gallons per hour, AVGAS costs around $5.75 per gallon, so daily costs in fuel alone would be around $621.00 or $12,420 commuting 20 days a month. There are other costs as well but I'm lazy.
 
2013-10-25 06:34:58 PM
Why dont some of these companies take a look around and move somewhere else?... I mean Silicon Valley.... its not like the days of Big Steel when you needed a port city and heavy rail lines.

Don't give me that "It's where all the talent is..."

Google could drop their HQ anywhere in the world including bumfarkistan Iowa and within a few years there would be plenty of talent available.  $6k/month in rent/mortgage would get you 50 acres, a mansion and a 15 minute drive to work.
 
2013-10-25 06:37:24 PM

fusillade762: ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).

Ah, I lived there during the boom as well. Got out just before the crash. And I thought paying $1,100 a month for a one bedroom in the Mission was a lot (1997 or so).


echomike23: [d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net image 850x566]
the girl in the article, leah volger

Hey, that's not San Francisco...


That looks like Buenos Aires. IIRC that's the bridge/sculpture in Puerto Madero.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puente_de_la_Mujer

/we now return to your usual programming
 
2013-10-25 06:38:25 PM
FTFA:

San Francisco rentals were a different world when Chuck Post became a leasing agent - just four years ago.
"In 2009 we were actually discounting rents, offering things like a free month's rent when you moved in, perhaps throwing in free parking," he said.

Those days are long gone.

Now as the economy roars back, his listings draw long lines of wannabe tenants, and apartments get snapped up in less than a week.


I don't know what planet he lives on, but the economy is in no way 'roaring' back. MAYBE in Silicon Valley and on Wall St., but for the rest of us, the real unemployment rate is still hovering around 10%, wages are flat and have been since forever, confidence is at a 60-year low, and rents aren't just increasing faster than inflation, they're too damn high.

I'd like to move back to the late 90s with this writer.
 
2013-10-25 06:38:39 PM

SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.


Oakland has more people. So probably
Oakland on the basis of frequency. I'd bet Detroit still has them on a "level of danger per incident" basis though.
 
2013-10-25 06:39:03 PM
Hey, that article didn't say a thing about Boise or airplanes.

I know a guy that used to commute from Dallas, TX to Teterboro, NJ every weekday. He did that for about 2 years. The plane had a place for him to sleep. When he got off the plane, he transferred to a helo and when he landed he was picked up by an armored Humvee driven by armed guards from Blackwater..

He's not rich. But his family damn sure is.
 
2013-10-25 06:39:59 PM

SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.



I lived in Oakland for a long time and I loved it. It's the one city in the bay area I would consider moving back to. Good food, great music scene, good people, amazing pot. It's tempting, but I do love my place in Monterey.
 
2013-10-25 06:41:03 PM

Uzzah: Speaker2Animals: Funny, submitter.

http://bestburgerinnorthwestlondon.wordpress.com/2013/10/24/cheaper- to -rent-in-barcelona-and-commute-to-london/

I sense a new meme coming on:

"Apartment rentals in {location1} are so costly, it's cheaper to live in {location2} and commute by {means of transportation} everyday."

Apartment rentals in Davenport, IA are so costly, it's cheaper to live on the surface of the Sun and commute by quantum tunneling everyday.


Quantum tunneling? Dude, just hitch a ride on a stream of photons and you can be there in eight minutes flat.
 
2013-10-25 06:43:06 PM

mediablitz: I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.


That makes no sense to me either. If anything, Fremont would be the same as or possibly cheaper than Dublin, especially at the time that NUMMI was in business. Although I have to say, traffic on 680 is never great, but 2.5 hours from Fremont to Dublin? C'mon.
 
2013-10-25 06:43:37 PM

baorao: SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.

Oakland has more people. So probably
Oakland on the basis of frequency. I'd bet Detroit still has them on a "level of danger per incident" basis though.


Parts of Oakland are quite nice. I have friends who live near Lake Merritt and their neighborhood is lovely. Felt safer there than in a lot of places in SF the last time I visited.
 
2013-10-25 06:43:59 PM

InternetSecurityGuard: Hey, that article didn't say a thing about Boise or airplanes.

I know a guy that used to commute from Dallas, TX to Teterboro, NJ every weekday. He did that for about 2 years. The plane had a place for him to sleep. When he got off the plane, he transferred to a helo and when he landed he was picked up by an armored Humvee driven by armed guards from Blackwater..


www.reocities.com
Helloooo
 
2013-10-25 06:44:52 PM

SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.


Oakland is lousy with hipsters now, there are some bad area but what city doesn't have those. Rather underrated city IMO
 
2013-10-25 06:48:37 PM

fusillade762: baorao: SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.

Oakland has more people. So probably
Oakland on the basis of frequency. I'd bet Detroit still has them on a "level of danger per incident" basis though.

Parts of Oakland are quite nice. I have friends who live near Lake Merritt and their neighborhood is lovely. Felt safer there than in a lot of places in SF the last time I visited.


Oakland's not really any better or worse than any other major metropolitan area. It just happens to have more black people than most other parts of the Bay Area, and is therefore scarier in the imaginations of certain people.
 
2013-10-25 06:48:46 PM

crotchgrabber: SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.


I lived in Oakland for a long time and I loved it. It's the one city in the bay area I would consider moving back to. Good food, great music scene, good people, amazing pot. It's tempting, but I do love my place in Monterey.


I don't live there but, I know several people that do and I go there often. Its a great city to live in. Much like every other large metropolitan area in CA, you just need to know where NOT to go. Love me some Oaktown
 
2013-10-25 06:50:43 PM
Live in SF have a corner unit, I pay just over $700 a month the apartment across from me and next door are both paying over 3K a month for the same space.

Thank go for rent control!
 
2013-10-25 06:51:06 PM

Tom_Slick: Boise is a 4.5 hour flight in a Cessna, most planes like that burn around 12 gallons per hour, AVGAS costs around $5.75 per gallon, so daily costs in fuel alone would be around $621.00 or $12,420 commuting 20 days a month. There are other costs as well but I'm lazy.


Other costs -- Purchasing the airplane and getting license to fly it. Also insurnace, hanger etc...
 
2013-10-25 06:51:30 PM
I just moved to Michigan from San Diego. San Diego rents weren't quite that expensive but the neighborhood I was living in they were hitting $1200 for a one bedroom. Everytime I miss California an article like this makes me remember why I left. I may make 33% less but my housing costs are about 60% less so that more than makes up for it (to me at least)
 
2013-10-25 06:54:38 PM

Tom_Slick: Boise is a 4.5 hour flight in a Cessna, most planes like that burn around 12 gallons per hour, AVGAS costs around $5.75 per gallon, so daily costs in fuel alone would be around $621.00 or $12,420 commuting 20 days a month. There are other costs as well but I'm lazy.


...or you could take a commercial airliner like a sane person and do it for $177 roundtrip. (expedia, random dates in Nov).
 
2013-10-25 06:55:28 PM

Cagey B: mediablitz: I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.

That makes no sense to me either. If anything, Fremont would be the same as or possibly cheaper than Dublin, especially at the time that NUMMI was in business. Although I have to say, traffic on 680 is never great, but 2.5 hours from Fremont to Dublin? C'mon.


And that was when Dublin was just a shiatload of housing. Nothing out there. But their house was NEW, not some OLD house in Fremont.
 
2013-10-25 06:56:00 PM

Tellingthem: I just moved to Michigan from San Diego. San Diego rents weren't quite that expensive but the neighborhood I was living in they were hitting $1200 for a one bedroom. Everytime I miss California an article like this makes me remember why I left. I may make 33% less but my housing costs are about 60% less so that more than makes up for it (to me at least)


San Diego to Michigan? Jesus. Enjoy winter.
 
2013-10-25 06:58:21 PM

meyerkev: mediablitz: ggowins: Not the subby, but I had considered doing just that after one experience I had back during the dotcom boom.

I flew out of SFO on a Friday to visit an aunt and uncle in Boise.  On Monday morning, it took less time leaving their house, turning in the rental, flying to SFO and driving to the office in Redwood City (2.5 hours) than it did to drive 40 miles home to Dublin that night (3 hours).

I had relatives that worked an NUMMI. They lived in Dublin. They had no life between work and commute.10 hour days with 5 hour commutes. Made no damn sense to me.

It's a money thing.  That's why I'm such a fan of getting some 0 to 1 transfer mass transit into the Valley from the East Bay.  

My roommate works at Google.

She lives in Mountain View, paying ~$1100/month for rent and utilities for half of a meh 2BR, 1BA apartment.  The places across the street from here (that don't have lead paint and asbestos and termites) start at $3000/month for a 1 BR/1 BA apartment and go up to $6K for a 2 BR/2 BA apartment.  There is a waiting list for these places.

However, one of her co-workers lives in Livermore.  He bought a house for $1200/month.

The Cost of Living differential is so crazily huge that it can be worth it for some people to do the Altamont->San Mateo Bridge Commute (or in the case of your relatives, Sunol.  Fark Sunol.  They need like an 8 lane highway through there because it's the ONLY road and there's no mass transit)


You'd think that software firms like Google would figure out how to set up a teleworking option for their employees.
 
2013-10-25 06:58:49 PM

divx88: I don't remember BART being insufficient for getting across east bay.  I was looking in the Emeryville area when one of my long term contracts was looking like it was going to be a reasonable full time position.  Never had to rent a vehicle the entire 6 months with the Emery-go-Round, BART and everything else.  Seems pretty easy to get around there, even moreso than LA with the Metrolink & rail.


So the big unresolved mass transit problem in the Bay Area is how to get from the East Bay to the Valley (which is a big amorphous blob running from PA to SJ, but enough companies run shuttles that if you could get close, but at reasonable speeds, the shuttles could probably handle the last mile).

Bart gets you over Altamont (kinda.  It only goes to Livermore), up and down the East Bay, and into SF quite well, but it's very, very hard to connect to SJ proper or get over the bridges onto Caltrain.  And since Caltrain only comes once every half hour and the Dumbarton Express gets to deal with traffic, you're probably looking at at almost 2 hours to do it if you tried to leave at any random time.

http://goo.gl/maps/UDjo5 - Going from Oakland to Palo Alto (station to station too, and noting that Palo Alto is both a Baby Bullet stop and a Dumbarton Express terminus, so add 10 minutes on each end for walking, and even more time if you had to get to a non-Baby Bullet stop) takes at minimum 80 minutes via mass transit and it's probably more since there's 2 transfers in there and I don't trust them to be on time and requires that you transfer through SF or take the Dumbarton Express and get stuck in bridge traffic.  Meanwhile, it's a 40 minute drive over the Dumbarton bridge in your car.  Even with traffic, that drive might be worth doing.  Especially if you didn't trust Killtrain's reliability (It seems like once or twice a week, something happens that slows down Caltrain and about twice a month, something happens that seriously affects my commute, whether it be a dead pedestrian or a drunk guy driving his car down the train tracks or mechanical issues causing them to drop a train (All 3 of these have happened in the last month or so)).

/Meanwhile, the worst case scenario for me (Caltrain down, I don't have my bike, the last 522 has left) is to take the 22 bus from Palo Alto to Mountain View.  Takes maybe 50 minutes.
 
2013-10-25 06:59:29 PM
Live in Antioch, work in Concord. Currently a major highway project through the area but by leaving at 9 I can be at work in 20 mins. Live in a new-ish 4 BR house for $1895/mth. Prolly could have found something smaller/cheaper but we enjoy the country area at the foot of the Black Diamond recreation area. I like the climate much more than SF - warmer & drier. I would not want to commute to SF or SJ - major PITA.
 
2013-10-25 07:08:24 PM

Cagey B: Tellingthem: I just moved to Michigan from San Diego. San Diego rents weren't quite that expensive but the neighborhood I was living in they were hitting $1200 for a one bedroom. Everytime I miss California an article like this makes me remember why I left. I may make 33% less but my housing costs are about 60% less so that more than makes up for it (to me at least)

San Diego to Michigan? Jesus. Enjoy winter.


Heh. I'm actually from here originally but left over a decade ago. It will take some time to get used to it again...
 
2013-10-25 07:08:46 PM

meyerkev: http://priceonomics.com/the-san-francisco-rent-explosion/

As long as the only major city with significant mass transit connections to Silicon Valley is SF (because software hipsters make way too much farking money)...


Not sure what the first has to do with the second. As someone who tried mass transit to San Ma-freaking-teo for several years, I'm here to tell the rest of the audience that you're on opium, unless you're counting the employer shuttles that run from SF. They're significant, if only because they exist at all.

and SF absolutely refuses to add more housing

Bullshiat; there are condos going up all over the Mission, Upper Market and well into downtown. These things are coming on line in the next few years by the hundreds.

and SF refuses to make the mass transit run faster so that you can live in Richmond and work in SOMA and not have a hour-ish commute (and in turn, live in Richmond and work in the Valley and not have a 2-hour commute)

How fast BART runs from Richmond to SF has dick to do with San Francisco (unless you're confusing the Richmond District with Richmond in the East Bay). Your beef is with the people of San Mateo County who had a chance to build BART down the Peninsula with 1962 dollars and decided that they didn't need it; after all, Southern Pacific had run commuter trains for 100 years and it was as much mass transit as they figured they needed.

SF is going to be overpriced, because you couldn't pay me enough to deal with Bay Area traffic.

Also, link the East Bay to the Valley in a reasonable fashion (preferably via Dumbarton Rail or finishing BART through SJ and then giving Caltrain more funding so that I'm not trying to schedule my life around explicit trains).


From your lips to God's ears, but neither of those is likely to happen anytime soon.

Seriously, this isn't hard.  Add more housing such that after the software people you still have room and provide an escape valve into the East Bay and housing prices will go down.  They won't ever be low (mountains and water and the fact that the weather sucks the more you get away from SF proper), but they'll be lower.

Not likely, at least until we have another major earthquake (Hayward Fault, lemme hear ya!) and a firestorm wipes out most of the East Bay.
 
2013-10-25 07:09:09 PM
This is the reason I left the Bay Area. I pay less in mortgage than I did in rent for a 1/1 in Belmont. There is no mold, and my commute is 10 min. I do have to deal with 110 degree weather, but life the rest of the time is way better than I would have ever had in the Bay Area.

y'all can keep it.
 
2013-10-25 07:13:13 PM
I work with a guy who usually works from his home in Arkansas, but he flies to Atlanta once every few weeks to check-in at the office.  We bought his company which is why he gets to do this.

Cagey B: fusillade762: baorao: SwiftFox: Oakland clocked in at $1,595

Is Oakland more or less dangerous to live in than Detroit? Just askin'.

Oakland has more people. So probably
Oakland on the basis of frequency. I'd bet Detroit still has them on a "level of danger per incident" basis though.

Parts of Oakland are quite nice. I have friends who live near Lake Merritt and their neighborhood is lovely. Felt safer there than in a lot of places in SF the last time I visited.

Oakland's not really any better or worse than any other major metropolitan area. It just happens to have more black people than most other parts of the Bay Area, and is therefore scarier in the imaginations of certain people.


Every so often I read that Oakland is going to be the Brooklyn of SF.  How likely is this?
 
2013-10-25 07:14:27 PM
Rent my room in tahoe, fly to San Jose on horizon. $625 for the room, utilities and internet inclused. Buy a Cessna and drive 15 minutes to the airport. Don't buy a Cessna and drive 40 minutes to reno plus $100/day for the horizon flight. Ski and profit
 
2013-10-25 07:23:22 PM

Fizpez: Why dont some of these companies take a look around and move somewhere else?... I mean Silicon Valley.... its not like the days of Big Steel when you needed a port city and heavy rail lines.

Don't give me that "It's where all the talent is..."

Google could drop their HQ anywhere in the world including bumfarkistan Iowa and within a few years there would be plenty of talent available.  $6k/month in rent/mortgage would get you 50 acres, a mansion and a 15 minute drive to work.


In a word: no.

See, it's not just the talent. They've got families. Kids in school. Friends. They don't want to move. Yes, some will move for Google, but not enough. This is why Microsoft has an office in Mountain View, and Google has offices in Kirkland and Seattle. Because there's good people there, and  they're happy there.

And on top of that: anyone who'll move to Bumfarkistan Iowa for a job had better hope the company really loves them, because if anything goes south, all of a sudden you're out of a job and there's no other jobs around for you.

The reason I live in Silicon Valley isn't because there's one job here. It's because if my employer decides they don't love me anymore, I can have another one before I'm eyeing the squirrels in the backyard for their protein value.

I've tried the 'live somewhere cheaper' thing. And I gotta say, there's nothing like moving back here to make me wonder why the heck I ever left.
 
2013-10-25 07:26:59 PM

Fatty McFatcheeks: This is the reason I left the Bay Area. I pay less in mortgage than I did in rent for a 1/1 in Belmont. There is no mold, and my commute is 10 min. I do have to deal with 110 degree weather, but life the rest of the time is way better than I would have ever had in the Bay Area.

y'all can keep it.


Yeah, I tried that. Moved from a crappy apartment in Redwood City to a 4br/2ba 2500sqft house in the Phoenix suburbs; mortgage was $28/month more than my rent, and I refinanced down twice from there.

Moved back 8 years later. This is where the jobs are for people like me, and if your employer blows up on you for some reason, fallback options are nice.

Been back here 5 years now. No regrets, except maybe that I wasted 8 years of SFBA salary in the Phoenix market.
 
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