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(The Consumerist)   Fewer teens are driving because they're broke. GOOD   (consumerist.com) divider line 69
    More: Interesting, face time, Internet usage, helicopter parenting  
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1660 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Oct 2013 at 7:20 PM (38 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-25 04:43:16 PM
Not good. While I do not believe in coddling kids being forced onto mass transit is too harsh a experience for anyone to have to undertake. A car may, at least briefly, get them out of the house.
Also where will the next generation of gear heads come from?

What we need is a new government program to get these kids in to cars. Initially I would have suggested some type of teen jobs program so they could afford cars modeled on the green energy jobs or that shovel ready jobs thing but I rejected that for a couple of reasons

First is that I wanted it to be successful and those programs were not.

Second having the teens work for the cars sends the wrong message. We have relaxed the requirement for means tested welfare to the extent that now the the number of people collecting means tested welfare benefits exceeds the number of people with full times jobs. Obviously they should not have to work for these cars. They are entitled to a car due to their mere existence. They have a right to a car and government should give it to them.

So how do we get the teens their free cars? Well I first thought that a reversed cash for clunkers thing might work -called clunkers for teens but rejected that as unmanageable.

Not being a government employee I was able to apply some creativity and initiative to this problem so try to stay with me on this.

Back in 2010 President Obama set the goal , along with spending a lot of tax payer money, to get 1 million electric cars on the road by 2015. Well here it is 2013 and Obama is only 920,000 electric cars short of his goal.

If we give every teenager who can pass a drivers test a free Chevy Volt we can help save this failing program. Now first you are gong to say but the Chevy Volt is not a real car and you would be right but or intention are good so results are not so important in a government program. A teen age boy's firstt car should have a V-8 engine, a large back seat and have produce a carbon footprint as big as Al Gore's private jet but it just is not doable with an Obama economy

As for money the tax payer is already taking in the shorts with Chevy Volt giving them away for free would not be that great of an additional burden.

.
 
2013-10-25 05:01:56 PM
Uh, yeah.

Even a shiatty used car (in our post-Cash-For-Clunkers world) is going to cost several grand (And since I'm fat and large, it'll be American and used + American is an exercise in pain).  I did the math pre-Cash-For-Clunkers, and I'd have had to work part-time during school and full-time during summer just to break even on the car that I took to get to work.

Or I could mooch rides off parents, and then live in the dorms all 4 years and mooch off the free University bus system to get wherever I needed to go (or just NOT go there.  The Apple Store was 5 miles away and the one time that I had to go, it took well over an hour).  By the time that I really needed a car to get to interviews, my mother had bought a Prius and I was able to mooch off her old car for my last semester of college.  Since parking for a semester (in a lot that was quite a bit further from campus than my dorm room) was $600/semester IF you won the lottery to get in, above and beyond the costs of owning a car in a very liberal city, this worked out quite well.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-25 06:01:10 PM
A former coworker has a son who doesn't want to drive and didn't even try not to crash during driving practice. From talking to younger people, this attitude is more common than it used to be. (The not wanting to drive part, not the not caring about crashing part.) When I was a kid you had one landline per household, two if you were rich and half a party line if you were poor. Now you can communicate over video chat, text, or private voice line from almost anywhere.
 
2013-10-25 06:04:19 PM
Obvious tag is strangely absent. It must have been traded in for cash to buy a shiny new interesting tag.
 
2013-10-25 06:08:45 PM

ZAZ: A former coworker has a son who doesn't want to drive and didn't even try not to crash during driving practice. From talking to younger people, this attitude is more common than it used to be. (The not wanting to drive part, not the not caring about crashing part.) When I was a kid you had one landline per household, two if you were rich and half a party line if you were poor. Now you can communicate over video chat, text, or private voice line from almost anywhere.


You still can't get laid over standard tcp/ip
 
2013-10-25 06:17:02 PM

hasty ambush: Not good. While I do not believe in coddling kids being forced onto mass transit is too harsh a experience for anyone to have to undertake. A car may, at least briefly, get them out of the house.


That's good for a solid B+ in Beginning Pocket Ninjary. A little more work and you'll be able to get some more advanced subtleties.
 
2013-10-25 06:21:32 PM
Well ya. $400 iphones and huge monthly bills to match.
 
2013-10-25 06:34:23 PM
Honestly, I know several teenagers without drivers license, and the rationality has nothing to do with "I have no money" and entirely to do with "I'm too lazy to drive, why waste all that money money on a car and gas when I could spend it on <insert nonsense hobby here> and just have mom drive me around everywhere".

Trust me, these kids have no problem scrounging up cash for a $1200 airsoft gun, every new PS3 game that comes out, and $100 worth of Magic Cards every week, but a car? Pfft, who wants that?
 
2013-10-25 06:42:23 PM
Tell that to the teenage girl that cut me off a couple of days ago making an illegal u-turn in her Fisker.
 
2013-10-25 06:49:07 PM

timujin: Tell that to the teenage girl that cut me off a couple of days ago making an illegal u-turn in her Fisker.


Nobody told her not to run with scissors?
 
2013-10-25 06:52:00 PM

spman: Honestly, I know several teenagers without drivers license, and the rationality has nothing to do with "I have no money" and entirely to do with "I'm too lazy to drive, why waste all that money money on a car and gas when I could spend it on <insert nonsense hobby here> and just have mom drive me around everywhere".

Trust me, these kids have no problem scrounging up cash for a $1200 airsoft gun, every new PS3 game that comes out, and $100 worth of Magic Cards every week, but a car? Pfft, who wants that?


That would change pretty quickly if the parents involved said "take the goddamn bus, I'm not a chauffeur" once in a while.
 
2013-10-25 06:53:06 PM

EvilEgg: ZAZ: A former coworker has a son who doesn't want to drive and didn't even try not to crash during driving practice. From talking to younger people, this attitude is more common than it used to be. (The not wanting to drive part, not the not caring about crashing part.) When I was a kid you had one landline per household, two if you were rich and half a party line if you were poor. Now you can communicate over video chat, text, or private voice line from almost anywhere.

You still can't get laid over standard tcp/ip


You can over UDP, but you never know if the other person got it.
 
2013-10-25 06:56:28 PM

Donnchadha: timujin: Tell that to the teenage girl that cut me off a couple of days ago making an illegal u-turn in her Fisker.

Nobody told her not to run with scissors?


Her scissors looked almost exactly like these:
www.businessweek.com
 
2013-10-25 07:09:49 PM
Getting harder for momma robin to push her brood out of the nest because they've just made the nest too comfy.
 
2013-10-25 07:35:52 PM
In my day you could buy a car for $400 and it would run, not good, but run.  Now cars are so freaking complex that when they break, you can't fix them.  There are no more old hoopties left that someone with a wrench and common sense can make work on their own.  You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong.  If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.
 
2013-10-25 07:39:38 PM
I was driving down the road behind the high school, where the kids who cant find a spot in the parking lot usually park, and it was a solid wall of cars on both sides of the street. Seems to me that plenty of kids are still driving.

I also noticed that every single car there was no more than 5 or 6 years old. When did teenagers suddenly get so well off? When I was in high school the parking lot was full of rusted out old beaters.
 
2013-10-25 07:46:50 PM

comslave: In my day you could buy a car for $400 and it would run, not good, but run.  Now cars are so freaking complex that when they break, you can't fix them.  There are no more old hoopties left that someone with a wrench and common sense can make work on their own.  You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong.  If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.


That's just the thing, and exactly why Cash for Clunkers was such a bust, it took a ton of affordable cars that were still in good mechanical shape off the road. You can find plenty of classics, pre-1985 or so, but good luck finding parts for them, and you can find plenty of newer cars 1999 and later once the age of computers and esoteric indicator lights came into being, but a lot of those cars in between, the ones you'd see in front of peoples houses as being for sale for $750, that would run at least another 20,000 or so miles before they shiat the bed completely and not be worth fixing, those cars all went to the scrap heap.
 
2013-10-25 07:48:56 PM

Etchy333: EvilEgg: ZAZ: A former coworker has a son who doesn't want to drive and didn't even try not to crash during driving practice. From talking to younger people, this attitude is more common than it used to be. (The not wanting to drive part, not the not caring about crashing part.) When I was a kid you had one landline per household, two if you were rich and half a party line if you were poor. Now you can communicate over video chat, text, or private voice line from almost anywhere.

You still can't get laid over standard tcp/ip

You can over UDP, but you never know if the other person got it.


So no change really.
 
2013-10-25 08:01:26 PM
 
2013-10-25 08:13:13 PM
Almost as if the availability of cheap energy changes your expectations and social symbolism. Let's see, 1960s cheap energy = space fantasies and Daddy's T-Bird, early 21st century energy portrait = disillusioned cyclists.
 
2013-10-25 08:15:34 PM
How is it I'm this far in this thread and there aren't twelve grumpycat pictures?  The hell?
 
2013-10-25 08:16:08 PM

ReapTheChaos: I was driving down the road behind the high school, where the kids who cant find a spot in the parking lot usually park, and it was a solid wall of cars on both sides of the street. Seems to me that plenty of kids are still driving.

I also noticed that every single car there was no more than 5 or 6 years old. When did teenagers suddenly get so well off? When I was in high school the parking lot was full of rusted out old beaters.


The rusted out old beaters got destroyed in Cash for Clunkers.  This in turn wiped out the lower end of the market and sent everybody into much nicer used cars.

They're not well off.  Their parents bought them a car because it was cheaper than putting them on their insurance as an additional driver, more convenient than dropping them off every morning (and better than having them get up at 5:30 AM to get the schoolbus.  No, I'm not joking), and at this point it's almost cheaper over time to get a reasonably used (or new.  New vs. 100K miles was only $7K + $3K for the warranty) and get 50-100K worry-free miles out of it.
 
2013-10-25 08:25:36 PM
Our son is almost 21 and we tried for five years to get him to be interested in driving. We moved across the country for work and he stayed behind; he seems to be functioning pretty well without a driver's license as he lives in a medium-sized town with bus service and has housemates who drive. It also sort of fits with his vegan-save-the-planet mindset.

I figure he might eventually meet the right girl who will be the motivation for him to want to drive.
 
2013-10-25 08:28:13 PM
theeconomiccollapseblog.com

You mean fewer adults are driving because the minimum wage is too damn low?

Simple solution: Double the minimum wage!
 
2013-10-25 08:28:13 PM

EvilEgg: ZAZ: A former coworker has a son who doesn't want to drive and didn't even try not to crash during driving practice. From talking to younger people, this attitude is more common than it used to be. (The not wanting to drive part, not the not caring about crashing part.) When I was a kid you had one landline per household, two if you were rich and half a party line if you were poor. Now you can communicate over video chat, text, or private voice line from almost anywhere.

You still can't get laid over standard tcp/ip


Then what's all this porn for?

What, that doesn't count?
 
2013-10-25 08:33:19 PM
Teens are always broke.

No, it's more that they don't want to get a license. I'll acknowledge that a few states require personal insurance with a license, but most don't. So it doesn't cost anything more than the initial outlay and time.
 
2013-10-25 08:42:07 PM

spman: comslave: In my day you could buy a car for $400 and it would run, not good, but run.  Now cars are so freaking complex that when they break, you can't fix them.  There are no more old hoopties left that someone with a wrench and common sense can make work on their own.  You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong.  If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.

That's just the thing, and exactly why Cash for Clunkers was such a bust, it took a ton of affordable cars that were still in good mechanical shape off the road. You can find plenty of classics, pre-1985 or so, but good luck finding parts for them, and you can find plenty of newer cars 1999 and later once the age of computers and esoteric indicator lights came into being, but a lot of those cars in between, the ones you'd see in front of peoples houses as being for sale for $750, that would run at least another 20,000 or so miles before they shiat the bed completely and not be worth fixing, those cars all went to the scrap heap.


Neither of you are correct (or at least comslave with the $2000 part, I don't think I'd want a $400 car now, nor would I have twenty years ago when I was in college).  While a good many of cars might have gone to Cash for Clunkers, a quick glance at Craigslist shows that there are plenty of early to mid-nineties Toyotas and Hondas available.  Those cars last forever if they're even moderately well taken care of.  If I were a teenager or college kid, dropping $1500 or less on one would be a good buy.
 
2013-10-25 08:42:23 PM

spman: comslave: In my day you could buy a car for $400 and it would run, not good, but run.  Now cars are so freaking complex that when they break, you can't fix them.  There are no more old hoopties left that someone with a wrench and common sense can make work on their own.  You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong.  If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.

That's just the thing, and exactly why Cash for Clunkers was such a bust, it took a ton of affordable cars that were still in good mechanical shape off the road. You can find plenty of classics, pre-1985 or so, but good luck finding parts for them, and you can find plenty of newer cars 1999 and later once the age of computers and esoteric indicator lights came into being, but a lot of those cars in between, the ones you'd see in front of peoples houses as being for sale for $750, that would run at least another 20,000 or so miles before they shiat the bed completely and not be worth fixing, those cars all went to the scrap heap.


It wasn't a bust. It did what it set out to do; get old cars off the road, and replace them with new, fuel efficient cars. It was a boon for car manufacturers, under a "save the planet" guise, at taxpayer expense.

It wasn't called the "cars for poor teens" program. Because who cares about poor teens?
 
2013-10-25 08:44:42 PM
This is seriously a good thing. Fewer people will die.
 
zez
2013-10-25 08:44:58 PM
I think part of it might be how you grew up with cars. I'm of the age where as a child you could sit comfortably in the car rather than being strapping so tightly in a chair surrounded by buttresses so that you can't see anything out the window. My parents also loved road tripping so I grew up that random drives throughout the countryside was the thing to do. I still go on random drives just to see where this road goes or what's over here because I like driving a car. I hope to instill this freedom of travel in at least one of my kids.
 
2013-10-25 08:50:59 PM
I love how the teenage drivers get dumped on more than the elderly drivers. Bad teenage drivers are bad because they don't have experience behind the wheel. Once they get it, they're fine. Bad elderly drivers, meanwhile, have the experience, but they're old, losing their sight and reaction time, and are just going to get worse and worse until eventually they are taken off the road for good.

And yet it's the teenagers that get the 'never let them drive ever' mocking while the elderly drivers get commercials offering them special insurance rates and praising them for their 'experience'.
 
2013-10-25 08:54:31 PM
I'm definitely okay with this.
 
2013-10-25 09:04:10 PM
Fewer teens driving because they hate getting raped by the Texas state trooper on the side of the road.

/Filed under: Damn, why you pigs keep pulling me over when I been doing nothing illegal?
 
2013-10-25 09:22:26 PM
shiatty jobs that teens used to get to be able to afford to buy a beater are now being filled by divorced single parents supporting 2 kids. It's a bad situation anyway you look at it.
 
2013-10-25 09:31:08 PM
I don't know, most of the asshole drivers I've had run ins with were old people and douchebags with expensive cars, not broke ass teens. Not saying that broke ass teens aren't dangerous too but they're not the only ones.
 
2013-10-25 09:55:29 PM

Gosling: I love how the teenage drivers get dumped on more than the elderly drivers. Bad teenage drivers are bad because they don't have experience behind the wheel. Once they get it, they're fine. Bad elderly drivers, meanwhile, have the experience, but they're old, losing their sight and reaction time, and are just going to get worse and worse until eventually they are taken off the road for good.

And yet it's the teenagers that get the 'never let them drive ever' mocking while the elderly drivers get commercials offering them special insurance rates and praising them for their 'experience'.


Respect your elders.
 
2013-10-25 09:57:00 PM

comslave: You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong. If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.



You know you can get one of these for $15.00 plug it into any American made car after 1996, it will report all fault codes to an app on your phone,


img.dxcdn.com
before you buy the car.
 
2013-10-25 09:57:22 PM
I had to push my oldest to get his license a little--he'll get it at 16.5.  When I was a kid it was normal to be 16 exactly, or heaven-forbid, 16 plus a month.  We've had to drive them to school every day day for a litany of reasons, so they've never had to learn the pain of the school bus.  That comfort may be the reason for the delay.

As for the beaters, a lot of it might be cars are so much better now they don't rust as quickly.  The kid will be driving our old 2002 Camry with 192,000 miles, and it's still in great condition.  Many of the cars in the student parking lot are similar, but appear at first glance to be "nice" cars.  Heck, if you look closely in any part of the city but the worst of the ghettos, do you see any old-school beaters anymore?

We did find a deal for the 15-year-old.  A trusted friend sold us his 2003 ION for $1,400.  We really won't drive it much for another year, but it was too good to pass up.
 
2013-10-25 10:44:18 PM
When I was in high school/university, I was constantly baffled by people who not only did not walk, but absolutely refused to walk anywhere. 

I think I know why Americans are so farking fat.
 
2013-10-25 10:49:50 PM
My God. People are pathetic. No wonder you're all out of work.
 
2013-10-25 10:53:57 PM

Mandapants: Our son is almost 21 and we tried for five years to get him to be interested in driving. We moved across the country for work and he stayed behind; he seems to be functioning pretty well without a driver's license as he lives in a medium-sized town with bus service and has housemates who drive. It also sort of fits with his vegan-save-the-planet mindset.

I figure he might eventually meet the right girl who will be the motivation for him to want to drive.

 
2013-10-25 11:07:41 PM

meyerkev: The rusted out old beaters got destroyed in Cash for Clunkers. This in turn wiped out the lower end of the market and sent everybody into much nicer used cars.


You make it sound like Cash 4 Clunkers was among the worst government ideas in history... even worse than Obamacare!
You filthy lieberal!
 
2013-10-25 11:14:59 PM

Donnchadha: hasty ambush: Not good. While I do not believe in coddling kids being forced onto mass transit is too harsh a experience for anyone to have to undertake. A car may, at least briefly, get them out of the house.

That's good for a solid B+ in Beginning Pocket Ninjary. A little more work and you'll be able to get some more advanced subtleties.



Yeah, I began reading the post anticipating a hearty LOL by the end, but I ended up with a "WTF am I reading?" instead.  Too bad.  It had promise.
 
2013-10-25 11:17:03 PM

meyerkev: Uh, yeah.

Even a shiatty used car (in our post-Cash-For-Clunkers world) is going to cost several grand (And since I'm fat and large, it'll be American and used + American is an exercise in pain).  I did the math pre-Cash-For-Clunkers, and I'd have had to work part-time during school and full-time during summer just to break even on the car that I took to get to work.


My car is 13 years old--granted, it's a Lexus--and I see many like it selling on Craigslist or eBay Motors for $6000-$9000, depending on condition.  On eBay, you can SEE that these cars are selling for that price; on Craigslist it's inferred since the ads seem to disappear within a couple days.
 
2013-10-25 11:21:47 PM

comslave: In my day you could buy a car for $400 and it would run, not good, but run.  Now cars are so freaking complex that when they break, you can't fix them.  There are no more old hoopties left that someone with a wrench and common sense can make work on their own.   You need to hook them up to a computer just to figure out what's wrong.  If you buy a car for $2000 it'll die before you get it home.


For $20-$50, you can get one of these.  Or you can go to Autozone and have them read the codes for free.
 
2013-10-25 11:28:22 PM

ModernLuddite: When I was in high school/university, I was constantly baffled by people who not only did not walk, but absolutely refused to walk anywhere. 

I think I know why Americans are so farking fat.



I see them on campus here, too.  Our university has a trolley that circles the campus, with stops about every two blocks.  You wouldn't believe the number of times I've seen a kid get on the trolley at one stop, just to get off at the next...two blocks away, in perfect weather.
 
2013-10-25 11:59:25 PM
In Ontario, you have to pass THREE tests before you have your full license. They even were thinking of adding a fourth test because, you know, the children, before enough people got upset and they backed off. If you are in the Greater Toronto Area, which a good chunk of the population is, you will likely find yourself going a hundred miles out of town to a rural DriveTest location or risk being failed for blinking the wrong way.

Factor in congestion, climate change and increasing car taxes to pay for public transit infrastructure, and we are going to see fewer and fewer people here driving in the coming decades.
 
2013-10-26 12:16:16 AM
Now, if we could get seniors off the roads too, they would be safe.
 
2013-10-26 12:26:46 AM

meyerkev: Uh, yeah.

Even a shiatty used car (in our post-Cash-For-Clunkers world) is going to cost several grand (And since I'm fat and large, it'll be American and used + American is an exercise in pain).  I did the math pre-Cash-For-Clunkers, and I'd have had to work part-time during school and full-time during summer just to break even on the car that I took to get to work.

Or I could mooch rides off parents, and then live in the dorms all 4 years and mooch off the free University bus system to get wherever I needed to go (or just NOT go there.  The Apple Store was 5 miles away and the one time that I had to go, it took well over an hour).  By the time that I really needed a car to get to interviews, my mother had bought a Prius and I was able to mooch off her old car for my last semester of college.  Since parking for a semester (in a lot that was quite a bit further from campus than my dorm room) was $600/semester IF you won the lottery to get in, above and beyond the costs of owning a car in a very liberal city, this worked out quite well.


Mostly the kids just mooch and Skype.
 
2013-10-26 01:39:24 AM

Mandapants: Our son is almost 21 and we tried for five years to get him to be interested in driving. We moved across the country for work and he stayed behind; he seems to be functioning pretty well without a driver's license as he lives in a medium-sized town with bus service and has housemates who drive. It also sort of fits with his vegan-save-the-planet mindset.

I figure he might eventually meet the right girl who will be the motivation for him to want to drive.

Electrify: In Ontario, you have to pass THREE tests before you have your full license. They even were thinking of adding a fourth test because, you know, the children, before enough people got upset and they backed off. If you are in the Greater Toronto Area, which a good chunk of the population is, you will likely find yourself going a hundred miles out of town to a rural DriveTest location or risk being failed for blinking the wrong way.

Factor in congestion, climate change and increasing car taxes to pay for public transit infrastructure, and we are going to see fewer and fewer people here driving in the coming decades.


Not in my rueal area! People here still need trucks and cars to do transport. Businesses will need vans to deliver goods. Not all buses and public transport can pick up everyone everywhere.
 
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