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(Yahoo)   Traditionalists warn that pro-gay Anglicans are widening church's rift, stance   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 49
    More: Stupid, Anglican Church, Episcopal Church, Canada and the United States, Archbishop of Canterbury, Human sexual activity  
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915 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Oct 2013 at 5:36 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-25 02:57:59 PM
Widening the rift? No, we're just leaving you behind.
 
2013-10-25 03:01:39 PM
It's just crazy to think that members may want to split over someone's right to marry who they choose! Henry VIII would never have believed the Anglican Church could come to this.
 
2013-10-25 04:24:45 PM
Archbishop Eliud Wabukala, primate of Kenya

www.reactiongifs.com
 
2013-10-25 04:36:29 PM
"There is no sign yet that there is any return to Biblical standards," Peter Jensen, general secretary of the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON), told Reuters at the group's second meeting since it first convened in Jerusalem in 2008

If you're not stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath, you have no biblical standards.
 
2013-10-25 05:40:25 PM

Marcus Aurelius: "There is no sign yet that there is any return to Biblical standards," Peter Jensen, general secretary of the Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON), told Reuters at the group's second meeting since it first convened in Jerusalem in 2008

If you're not stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath, you have no biblical standards.


Pretty much. They've been doing it buffet-style for a long time now.
 
2013-10-25 05:40:40 PM
The article gives it away--its not really about gay people. You're dealing with churches that often can only barely stand women priests or women bishops.
 
2013-10-25 05:40:45 PM
Traditionalist Anglicans warn rift over gay issue may widen are crapping their pants about their inevitable complete irrelevancy.
 
2013-10-25 05:42:03 PM
"Traditionalists"?  That's what they're calling bigots nowadays?
 
2013-10-25 05:46:47 PM

scottydoesntknow: Archbishop Eliud Wabukala, primate of Kenya

[www.reactiongifs.com image 265x236]


What? Thats his title. Every country's leading bishop is called a Primate.

I'd also like to say to the traditionalist. "GOOD RIDDANCE".

Its the liberal American and Canadian churches that keep them funded. The "traditionalist" churches rely on the generosity and fundraising that occurs here to pay for the all their nifty church schools, cathedrals and seminaries. Maybe now we can focus on improving liberal christian education here in North America and providing more fully for the needy in our own communities instead of shipping that money off to homophobic misogynists in Africa.
 
2013-10-25 05:47:43 PM
Get your religion story out of the politics tab.
 
2013-10-25 05:59:55 PM
Dear Traditionalist Anglicans,

As an American Anglican, also known as an Episcopalian, also known as a "Hey Padre, can we speed this sh*t up, kick-off is in 20?" Christian, allow me to clue you in to a little fact:

Our religion started when Henry VIII got butthurt because the pope wouldn't let him ditch his current wife and get some fresh tail. We exist as an organization only because a king wanted a little strange. Any call to "tradition" from us is absolutely absurd. Knock it off. Go be nice to someone, it's the only thing we have.
 
2013-10-25 06:00:05 PM

scottydoesntknow: Archbishop Eliud Wabukala, primate of Kenya

[www.reactiongifs.com image 265x236]


ROFL!!!
 
2013-10-25 06:04:25 PM
As a fairly recent self-acknowledged atheist, I find I can no longer care about the negative effects that wider acceptance of the most basic human rights among church goers (and leaders) are having on the overall cohesion of the church/denomination or religion in general.

Quite simply, when it comes to gays, you are wrong. Period.
 
2013-10-25 06:06:31 PM
Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?
 
2013-10-25 06:10:58 PM
Yeah. The Episcopal Church (American Anglican) is gonna split over gay ordination. And it looks like the gay ordaining part will be the small part.

Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".

Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway. "All the salvation, half the guilt!"
 
2013-10-25 06:11:06 PM

Heamer: Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?


izquotes.com
 
2013-10-25 06:16:55 PM
yes, yes, the it's the side working toward inclusion that's causing a rift, while the side that's trying to be exclusive and isolationist is really all about unity.  brilliant analysis.
 
2013-10-25 06:17:26 PM
Oh my god what should we do.

WHAT SHOULD WE DO.

What should we do about...the gays.

MY GOD WHAT SHOULD WE DO.

They're coming in through the backdoor.  They're climbing over the fences.  They're oozing up through the drains.  MY GOD THERE'S ONE CRAWLING UP MY NECK.  GET IT OFF!  GET IT OFF!

OH MY GOD WHAT SHOULD WE DO.

ABOUT THE GAYS.
 
2013-10-25 06:18:15 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway.


Well, duh. It only exists because King whatshisname wanted to get divorced a couple hundred years ago and the pope wouldn't let him.
 
2013-10-25 06:19:44 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Yeah. The Episcopal Church (American Anglican) is gonna split over gay ordination. And it looks like the gay ordaining part will be the small part.

Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".

Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway. "All the salvation, half the guilt!"


Im pretty sure all Episcopal church held by the Episcopal Church USA. A couple of churches in my diocese tried to secede after being in less than good standing for a while. The national church, not our diocese, seized the property and placed it under the control of the diocese.
 
2013-10-25 06:21:43 PM

Pubby: BojanglesPaladin: Yeah. The Episcopal Church (American Anglican) is gonna split over gay ordination. And it looks like the gay ordaining part will be the small part.

Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".

Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway. "All the salvation, half the guilt!"

Im pretty sure all Episcopal church

Episcopal churches are held by the Episcopal Church USA. A couple of churches in my diocese tried to secede after being in less than good standing for a while. The national church, not our diocese, seized the property and placed it under the control of the diocese.

FTFM
 
2013-10-25 07:13:33 PM

theknuckler_33: As a fairly recent self-acknowledged atheist, I find I can no longer care about the negative effects that wider acceptance of the most basic human rights among church goers (and leaders) are having on the overall cohesion of the church/denomination or religion in general.

Quite simply, when it comes to gays everything, you are wrong. Period.


/sorry, pet peeve
//atheist
 
2013-10-25 07:56:47 PM
rumpelstiltskin:
Widening the rift? No, we're just leaving you behind.

Pretty much. "You've already lost.  You just don't realize it yet."
 
2013-10-25 08:32:25 PM

DeltaPunch: Heamer: Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?

[izquotes.com image 850x400]


Rupert Everrett is the very definition of the Self Hating Gay (tm).
 
2013-10-25 08:44:56 PM

DeltaPunch: Heamer: Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?

[izquotes.com image 850x400]


My 51 year old uncle is marrying his 37 year old boyfriend, so I'm getting a kick.
 
2013-10-25 09:02:22 PM

Wadded Beef: are crapping their pants about their inevitable complete irrelevancy.


If that was true, your side would have won thousands of years ago.
 
2013-10-25 09:12:58 PM
Yeah, I mean why should bigots have to change? What's in it for them except for being a decent human being?
 
2013-10-25 09:24:04 PM

DeltaPunch: Heamer: Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?

[izquotes.com image 850x400]


Your concern is duly noted.
 
2013-10-25 11:00:03 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".


It's not really quite so simple with the property ownership questions.

And the really choice Episcopal churches...  those with the old-money WASP millionaires (may not attend regularly, but that's the default denomination for the really-rich set) and the historic cathedrals?  Aren't really drifting the conservatives way.  If the old-money 'names' wanted to be Catholics, they'd have done so decades ago.
 
2013-10-25 11:17:53 PM

gingerjet: DeltaPunch: Heamer: Do these people think that gays are just going to disappear or something?

[izquotes.com image 850x400]

Rupert Everrett is the very definition of the Self Hating Gay (tm).


And if nobody wants him, it's because he's had so much plastic surgery that he's absolutely terrifying to look at.
 
2013-10-25 11:21:38 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Wadded Beef: are crapping their pants about their inevitable complete irrelevancy.

If that was true, your side would have won thousands of years ago.


Yes, 1000s of years ago the planet had a globally connected communication infrastructure and all the advances of science we have today.  Then, the Christians used their God-powers to wipe it all out.  We should be careful, they might do the same thing today.

Do I think religion will ever vanish completely?  No.  Do I want it to?  HELL YES.  I will settle for relegating it to what it should be; the social club for the weak-willed and soft-of-mind, but far away from governing bodies.
 
2013-10-25 11:28:01 PM
In before "Cake or death"
 
2013-10-25 11:30:37 PM

sugardave: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Wadded Beef: are crapping their pants about their inevitable complete irrelevancy.

If that was true, your side would have won thousands of years ago.

Yes, 1000s of years ago the planet had a globally connected communication infrastructure and all the advances of science we have today.  Then, the Christians used their God-powers to wipe it all out.  We should be careful, they might do the same thing today.

Do I think religion will ever vanish completely?  No.  Do I want it to?  HELL YES.  I will settle for relegating it to what it should be; the social club for the weak-willed and soft-of-mind, but far away from governing bodies.


I'm still trying to parse BNCW's Deep Thoughts (TM) where he refers to treating women and gays as human beings as "your side".
 
2013-10-25 11:56:09 PM

Pubby: Pubby: BojanglesPaladin: Yeah. The Episcopal Church (American Anglican) is gonna split over gay ordination. And it looks like the gay ordaining part will be the small part.

Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".

Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway. "All the salvation, half the guilt!"

Im pretty sure all Episcopal church Episcopal churches are held by the Episcopal Church USA. A couple of churches in my diocese tried to secede after being in less than good standing for a while. The national church, not our diocese, seized the property and placed it under the control of the diocese.

FTFM


That's probably because they didn't pay their assessment.  The Catholics have wooed (or tried to anyway) away a few parishes, and the Anglicans in (Nigeria? Kenya?) drew a few conservative parishes awaya few years ago.

I don't see this split going on too much further, but then again, I'm a former Catholic that's now a New England Episcopal.  Female priests, bishops that think smoking pot isn't a sin, and we get to booze it up Sunday afternoons.
 
2013-10-25 11:59:02 PM

UNC_Samurai: sugardave: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Wadded Beef: are crapping their pants about their inevitable complete irrelevancy.

If that was true, your side would have won thousands of years ago.

Yes, 1000s of years ago the planet had a globally connected communication infrastructure and all the advances of science we have today.  Then, the Christians used their God-powers to wipe it all out.  We should be careful, they might do the same thing today.

Do I think religion will ever vanish completely?  No.  Do I want it to?  HELL YES.  I will settle for relegating it to what it should be; the social club for the weak-willed and soft-of-mind, but far away from governing bodies.

I'm still trying to parse BNCW's Deep Thoughts (TM) where he refers to treating women and gays as human beings as "your side".


For fark's sake, please don't hurt yourself!
 
2013-10-26 12:21:09 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: It's just crazy to think that members may want to split over someone's right to marry who they choose! Henry VIII would never have believed the Anglican Church could come to this.


Done in 2.

The "traditionalists" are on the wrong side of both morality and history. This split has been coming for a while now.

That noted, watching the ones who want to practice exclusion accusing their more progressive bretheren (and sisteren, if that's even a  word) of being the divisive ones in this picture is sorta lulzy.
 
2013-10-26 12:31:02 AM
BraveNewCheneyWorld
2013-10-25 09:02:22 PM
(favorite: trans thread troll defender of normallacy)

I feel really sad for you, I 'm not joking, it's just a fact. I mean I've seen you state you're beliefs over and over again. I always took it from the position that this person is an alt created to be antagonistic but I just realized that maybe you aren't, maybe you're a true believer of the bile you spew and that you really could believe every word you say. Then I think no, no one is that stupid and hateful in real life that has internet so this has to be a troll : )
 
2013-10-26 03:50:13 AM
What difference does it make? We are talking about the made-up rules of a private bullshiat club.
 
2013-10-26 07:58:37 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: BraveNewCheneyWorld
2013-10-25 09:02:22 PM
(favorite: trans thread troll defender of normallacy)

I feel really sad for you, I 'm not joking, it's just a fact. I mean I've seen you state you're beliefs over and over again. I always took it from the position that this person is an alt created to be antagonistic but I just realized that maybe you aren't, maybe you're a true believer of the bile you spew and that you really could believe every word you say. Then I think no, no one is that stupid and hateful in real life that has internet so this has to be a troll : )


I feel sad for you, because like a few others here, you're completely delusional.  I haven't said anything that's hateful, only factual.  You're trying to normalize what is in reality a mental illness, you're the ones with problems.

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905
Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555
Number of members that "Abstained": 367
Number of " No" votes-votes to keep "homosexuality" in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810
Number of "Yes" votes-votes to remove "homosexuality" from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

32.7% of the APA membership voted to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, yet you people act as if there was some great scientific consensus.  And this vote followed 5 years of systematic harassment of psychiatrists at their offices and homes.

Even if you want to discount everyone who avoided the vote, you only gained support for the measure with 55% that's not nearly consensus either, and there was no landmark discovery to bring about the change, it was entirely political.
 
2013-10-26 09:13:04 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: It's just crazy to think that members may want to split over someone's right to marry who they choose! Henry VIII would never have believed the Anglican Church could come to this.


Isn't it ironic?
 
2013-10-26 09:15:42 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Dear Traditionalist Anglicans,

As an American Anglican, also known as an Episcopalian, also known as a "Hey Padre, can we speed this sh*t up, kick-off is in 20?" Christian, allow me to clue you in to a little fact:

Our religion started when Henry VIII got butthurt because the pope wouldn't let him ditch his current wife and get some fresh tail. We exist as an organization only because a king wanted a little strange. Any call to "tradition" from us is absolutely absurd. Knock it off. Go be nice to someone, it's the only thing we have.


Serious question: given you recognize the absurdity of the origin of the Anglican church, why are you a member?
 
2013-10-26 09:18:26 AM
The sheer cluelessness of the haters on this thread makes be proud to be Anglican.

Couple of quick observations....

1. The continuing Anglican movement in the US is much, much older than the current go-round about gay clergy..... and some of us wish the truly homophobic wing of the Episcopal church had found some other place to stage their circular firing squad. A lot of us feel co-opted by the nuttier cast offs from TEC.

2. One more time, people. Some of us, I'd even say most of us, support separation of Church and state. We really do not care about your housekeeping arrangements. Anglicans don't do Dominion-ism.

3.Religions have rules. If you don't like them, fine. Either don't join or start your own. It's a free market. But a religion enforcing is own norms within its own voluntary community is not bigoted. Even a drug-addled hate monger like Bill Maher understands this when he observed "it's not a focus group, it's a church."

(I'm sure I'm about to get carpet bombed with crazy-hate but.....)
 
2013-10-26 11:29:27 AM
I'm a proud Episcopalian, but there are a lot of things about the Anglican Church that really bother me.  And it's not really the conservatism - I can respect that.  It's things like this:

Welby, whose role as head of the Church of England carries no powers over other Anglican churches, visited Nairobi on Sunday but could not stay for the conference because he was due back in London for the baptism of Prince George on Wednesday.
 
2013-10-26 02:24:36 PM

M AGRIPPA L F COS TERTIVM SCRIBIT: I'm a proud Episcopalian, but there are a lot of things about the Anglican Church that really bother me


I am not a proud Episcopalian, and there are a lot of things about the church that bother me.

Primarily this - Christianity is against homosexuality.  It is part of the Christian faith that homosexuality is a sin and wrong.

Why do so many gay people want Christians to accept them into the church, when one of the tenets of the religion is that homosexuality is a sin and is wrong?

You can not be a practicing Christian and ALSO be a practicing homosexual without being a farking hypocrite - another thing that Christians are pretty down on.

Is is just that gays want to jam their big ol gay dick down Christ's throat?  Because to me it is a lot like blacks and Jews wanting to join the Ku Klux Klan.

Gay people, I am cool with you.  No issues.  Not homophobic.  I just don't understand why so many want to force Christians to not only accept that they are gay, but to also accept them AS gay into a religion that condemns them.

Why not do what ol' King whatshisname did that wanted some strange, and form a homosexual church with a re-written bible?

Makes much more sense.
 
2013-10-26 03:02:44 PM
Though I am now a committed atheist, I was raised Anglican.

/CSB
 
2013-10-26 06:37:23 PM

part of the problem: But a religion enforcing is own norms within its own voluntary community is not bigoted.


The norms themselves are bigoted - that's kind of what bigotry is. I mean, I'm not sure how anybody could even type the above sentence in seriousness, unless perhaps they weren't sure about what "bigotry" actually meant.
 
2013-10-26 07:45:01 PM

Biological Ali: part of the problem: But a religion enforcing is own norms within its own voluntary community is not bigoted.

The norms themselves are bigoted - that's kind of what bigotry is. I mean, I'm not sure how anybody could even type the above sentence in seriousness, unless perhaps they weren't sure about what "bigotry" actually meant.


Keep misusing the word "bigotry" and it will soon mean nothing.  They aren't expressing hatred or intolerance, they're only enforcing rules of conduct within their own organization.
 
2013-10-26 09:19:41 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: tinfoil-hat maggie: BraveNewCheneyWorld
2013-10-25 09:02:22 PM
(favorite: trans thread troll defender of normallacy)

I feel really sad for you, I 'm not joking, it's just a fact. I mean I've seen you state you're beliefs over and over again. I always took it from the position that this person is an alt created to be antagonistic but I just realized that maybe you aren't, maybe you're a true believer of the bile you spew and that you really could believe every word you say. Then I think no, no one is that stupid and hateful in real life that has internet so this has to be a troll : )

I feel sad for you, because like a few others here, you're completely delusional.  I haven't said anything that's hateful, only factual.  You're trying to normalize what is in reality a mental illness, you're the ones with problems.

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905
Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555
Number of members that "Abstained": 367
Number of " No" votes-votes to keep "homosexuality" in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810
Number of "Yes" votes-votes to remove "homosexuality" from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

32.7% of the APA membership voted to remove homosexuality from the list of mental illnesses, yet you people act as if there was some great scientific consensus.  And this vote followed 5 years of systematic harassment of psychiatrists at their offices and homes.

Even if you want to discount everyone who avoided the vote, you only gained support for the measure with 55% that's not nearly consensus either, and there was no landmark discovery to bring about the change, it was entirely political.


For BNCW, 55% is not a majority.  Okay, then.
 
2013-10-26 09:58:32 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Yeah. The Episcopal Church (American Anglican) is gonna split over gay ordination. And it looks like the gay ordaining part will be the small part.

Which will be interesting, because it seems that the church property is held by the LOCAL parishes, meaning that the Bishop and parish can just up and walk away and be another church at will. A lot of them seem to be looking at the Catholic Church, and the Catholic church is making come hither eyes, saying "please come home, all is forgiven".

Episcopalians have always been catholic light anyway. "All the salvation, half the guilt!"


Wait until they get a load of Pope Frankie. He'll let them in on the gay thing, but there's more to it these days....
 
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