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(CNN)   The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has decided that there's no reason whatsoever to investigate the complete immolation of a Tesla Model S after it hit some road debris   (money.cnn.com) divider line 164
    More: Obvious, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Model S, no reason, spray, flammable liquids, CEO Elon Musk, investigation  
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5403 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2013 at 11:39 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-25 12:18:34 PM

Demetrius: Drove past one the other day on the highway.  First time I've seen one on the road.

Nice looking car, I'll give it that.


Agreed. I don't know much about the benefits/detriments/costs/savings but its a lot better looking than i would've imagined.
 
2013-10-25 12:19:28 PM
How did Tesla become a Republican vs Democrat thing? Or is that the primary distinction you tards use to classify all things now?
 
2013-10-25 12:19:46 PM

steve42: I'm all in favor of the investigation of "alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy."  I simply believe that if there is to be a viable alternative to petroleum-based power of any sort, it will come from a free-market implementation of technology developed by privately funded research.  The government throwing money down the rat-hole of research into solar, wind, and other green power options is not going to do it.  If someone comes up with a viable and sustainable solution, there are entrepreneurs and investors who will beat their door down to get involved.

Mandating that the petroleum companies fund the research, that the automakers invest in it before the market is ready, and that taxpayers subsidize the efforts is counter-productive.  It sucks money out of the economy without any assurance of a return.


If all human progress were the result of privately funded research, we'd still be sitting in caves trying to decide if rocks are edible.
 
2013-10-25 12:20:18 PM

Corvus: I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.


I don't know, but I think some people see the fawning, completely uncritical adoration for a company or technology (think Apple fanboys) and react with visceral disgust.  I can see some of both sides of that coin with regards to Tesla.

Personally, it seems like a neat idea, but I've got a few issues that would prevent me from buying one as-is:

1) they're very expensive
2) if you ran out of "fuel" in an awkward location (yes, yes, this should never happen, I know), there is no way to bring fuel to the car; you'd have to tow it to an outlet
3) I would want to see empirical reliability data on the batteries in extreme cold.  Living in Minnesota, gasoline cars often *barely* start when it's -20 F outside, and battery performance is strongly dependent on temperature.
 
2013-10-25 12:21:09 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: Are they not aware of the lesson of the exploding Ford Pinto?


I was gonna say, this is not a repeat from 1976.

www.chevyhardcore.com
 
GBB
2013-10-25 12:21:52 PM
Just saw my first Tesla S on the road yesterday.  Didn't catch fire even once!
Looks pretty nice.
 
2013-10-25 12:21:56 PM

libranoelrose: I'll never understand the hate, I guess


To be honest, I don't get the extreme knee-jerk defensiveness. When there is a question about a car's safety it doesn't mean that people "hate" cars.
 
2013-10-25 12:22:43 PM

itsaidwhat: DarkSoulNoHope: There should be an investigation, but to the Republicans it doesn't matter, even if the results came out positively for the Tesla company. If it isn't an oil distillate powered vehicle, than it doesn't belong on the road in their opinion, because that would hurt the profits of oil companies that they support over the attempts to investigate alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy.

Your "green" technology only exists on the shoulders of the nuclear defense industry.

Would you like to know where the lithium material in all those batteries came from? Well, you can thank the nuclear weapons industry for creating a massive stockpile of excess lithium.

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/forms.jsp?formurl=document/press/pc23.ht m l


"Q. What are plans for disposition of the lithium hydroxide at Portsmouth and Oak Ridge? Is it waste?

A. The lithium hydroxide at both Portsmouth and Oak Ridge will be disposed of by a negotiated sale to major lithium producers. Lithium hydroxide is not considered a waste by the Department."

All declassified.


Progress doesn't mean stopping at one energy source and then sticking with it, besides what would you do with the waste lithium, dump it? I rather it be recycled into batteries.
 
2013-10-25 12:24:46 PM
Two anti-electric cars threads in a row? Did one of the admins scooters break down in Walmart or sumpin'?
goldenagestrengthclub.com
ZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz-z-z-z-z-

`DAMN YOU, THOMAS EDISON!!'
 
2013-10-25 12:24:48 PM

mikaloyd: How did Tesla become a Republican vs Democrat thing?


Actively avoiding anything that reduces dependence on fossil fuels is now officially part of the republican platform. They've also come out in favor of destroying the ocean as quickly as possible.
 
2013-10-25 12:26:24 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Probably not worth the bother...

I mean, what are the odds the same thing would happen to 1 of the other 3?

/If you don't live in California, you have about the same chance of seeing a Tesla Roadster in person as someone visiting the Iowa State Fair has of getting bitten by a shark.


I live in the ghetto of Baltimore and I see the (much more expensive) Tesla sedan a couple times a month.
 
2013-10-25 12:26:33 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Probably not worth the bother...

I mean, what are the odds the same thing would happen to 1 of the other 3?

/If you don't live in California, you have about the same chance of seeing a Tesla Roadster in person as someone visiting the Iowa State Fair has of getting bitten by a shark.


I work in SE PA and live in DE. I saw two different Model S's on the same night commuting home on 202 South. They were even the same color. The only reason I knew they were different was because one had PA plate "Tesla 3" and the other was DE plate "NO GAS".

There's also a Roadster scooting about somewhere in the area.
 
2013-10-25 12:28:06 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: There should be an investigation, but to the Republicans it doesn't matter, even if the results came out positively for the Tesla company. If it isn't an oil distillate powered vehicle, than it doesn't belong on the road in their opinion, because that would hurt the profits of oil companies that they support over the attempts to investigate alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy.


Al Gore still own a piece of Occidental Petroleum?
 
2013-10-25 12:30:12 PM

Marcus Aurelius: If every Tesla Roadster that ever left the factory caught fire, I'd still want one.


If all Tesla drivers were required to burn to death in their Roadsters, I'd still want one.  As long as it was red.

/cue 'dat ass' face for the 17" screen
 
2013-10-25 12:30:17 PM

steve42: I'm all in favor of the investigation of "alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy."  I simply believe that if there is to be a viable alternative to petroleum-based power of any sort, it will come from a free-market implementation of technology developed by privately funded research.  The government throwing money down the rat-hole of research into solar, wind, and other green power options is not going to do it.  If someone comes up with a viable and sustainable solution, there are entrepreneurs and investors who will beat their door down to get involved.


You have an oversimplified understanding of the free market. The free market is usually only interested in what's profitable for the next 3 months to a year. Any real change requires looking beyond short term profits, and also what is best outside of industry.

And you need the funding before you come up with the viable and sustainable solution. That's the whole point, R&D is a huge drain on resources. You need someone with deep pockets and long term stability. Which pretty much leaves out any private industry, the only player left if the government.
 
2013-10-25 12:30:41 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: libranoelrose: I'll never understand the hate, I guess

To be honest, I don't get the extreme knee-jerk defensiveness. When there is a question about a car's safety it doesn't mean that people "hate" cars.


I kind of don't count the one from the article. The cars that might meet with a bad fate after hitting a large piece of metal at speed are 'all of them.' Hell, I used to have a Vanagon camper - I lived in fear of fire every day because I frequented a VW forum that had a thread dedicated to all the people whose vans burned up and how to avoid it - there was no shortage of examples. I'd never buy a tesla - not a luxury car guy but I have to say I'm going to need to see a lot more fires before I pronounce it as unreasonably safe.
 
2013-10-25 12:31:33 PM

EngineerBob: DarkSoulNoHope: There should be an investigation, but to the Republicans it doesn't matter, even if the results came out positively for the Tesla company. If it isn't an oil distillate powered vehicle, than it doesn't belong on the road in their opinion, because that would hurt the profits of oil companies that they support over the attempts to investigate alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy.

Al Gore still own a piece of Occidental Petroleum?


What does Al Gore have to do with this conversation?
 
2013-10-25 12:31:37 PM

Ned Stark: Cletus C.: A car priced for the wealthy that promises a trickle down sometime in the future for the less-well-to-do. Yet it's green, so ....

Yes because a first generation tech product marketed to early adopters is entirely analogous to national tax and economic policy.


It's priced out of range of most Americans. That's OK in this scenario. Trust us, you'll get yours later, poors.
 
2013-10-25 12:32:01 PM

anfrind: If all human progress were the result of privately funded research, we'd still be sitting in caves trying to decide if rocks are edible.


I'm all for government funded research, but that is one of the dumbest things I've read all week.
 
2013-10-25 12:32:49 PM

PanicMan: You have an oversimplified understanding of the free market.


This tends to be the problem with free market absolutists.  In fact, it's the only thing that makes that ideology viable in the first place.
 
2013-10-25 12:35:26 PM

tricycleracer: MindStalker: Road debris? The driver running over an I-Beam that shot through the floor at I hear over 10 tons of force isn't "Road Debris".

We're using the Twister definition of "debris".


This week's original SCI-FY movie...
 
2013-10-25 12:36:39 PM
I see a Model S here in western Washington more than once a day it seems.

I haven't seen a Roadster in... over a year I think.

Both are beautiful, and if I had the money I'd consider it.
 
2013-10-25 12:37:19 PM

jshine: Corvus: I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.
.
.
.
2) if you ran out of "fuel" in an awkward location (yes, yes, this should never happen, I know), there is no way to bring fuel to the car; you'd have to tow it to an outlet

.

"Hello, Triple-A?" I need a battery swap on I70.. "
 
2013-10-25 12:39:07 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Probably not worth the bother...

I mean, what are the odds the same thing would happen to 1 of the other 3?

/If you don't live in California, you have about the same chance of seeing a Tesla Roadster in person as someone visiting the Iowa State Fair has of getting bitten by a shark.


I live in Davenport and saw one just a few days ago on River Drive. I also saw a truckload of them on I-80.
 
2013-10-25 12:39:22 PM

GoldDude: I have had my Model S about ten months now.  Freaking amazing car.
Wish I had bought the stock ten months ago (at $40 or so).
If I hit "road debris" with enough force to puncture through quarter-inch armour plating steel, I would fully expect that to have a detrimental effect to any vehicle.


I suspect the outcome on a gasoline vehicle would have been much worse.  It might not have punctured the fuel tank, but it might have just punctured right through to the passenger compartment, or depending on where it hit it could have hit brake lines, the transmission or differential, etc, and might have rendered the vehicle immediately inoperable.   The driver of this vehicle was able to safely pull over and exit the vehicle.
 
2013-10-25 12:40:17 PM
 
2013-10-25 12:40:49 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: EngineerBob: DarkSoulNoHope: There should be an investigation, but to the Republicans it doesn't matter, even if the results came out positively for the Tesla company. If it isn't an oil distillate powered vehicle, than it doesn't belong on the road in their opinion, because that would hurt the profits of oil companies that they support over the attempts to investigate alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy.

Al Gore still own a piece of Occidental Petroleum?

What does Al Gore have to do with this conversation?


He invented the internet which you are using to post in a green tech discussion thread on a website powered by renewable alcohol.

/carbon footprint
 
2013-10-25 12:41:03 PM

Squawky: jshine: Corvus: I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.
.
.
.
2) if you ran out of "fuel" in an awkward location (yes, yes, this should never happen, I know), there is no way to bring fuel to the car; you'd have to tow it to an outlet
.

"Hello, Triple-A?" I need a battery swap on I70.. "


Barring that, generators would become standard equipment on tow trucks.  At 240V, you can get about a half-mile a minute into the battery.
 
2013-10-25 12:41:30 PM

Squawky: jshine: Corvus: I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.
.
.
.
2) if you ran out of "fuel" in an awkward location (yes, yes, this should never happen, I know), there is no way to bring fuel to the car; you'd have to tow it to an outlet
.

"Hello, Triple-A?" I need a battery swap on I70.. "



I'm not entirely familiar with the design of the Tesla S's batteries, but given the capacity of the batteries in question, I doubt that a "swap" is a simple procedure you'd perform on the side of the freeway.  We're probably talking about hundreds of pounds of batteries that are integrated into the car's construction.
 
2013-10-25 12:41:58 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Probably not worth the bother...

I mean, what are the odds the same thing would happen to 1 of the other 3?

/If you don't live in California, you have about the same chance of seeing a Tesla Roadster in person as someone visiting the Iowa State Fair has of getting bitten by a shark.


I see a Tesla on the road pretty much every day and I'm 2500 miles from CA. Hell, there's a dealership 1 mile from my house. Then again, I see Maseratis, Bentleys, Ferarris and Lamborghinis rolling by pretty much daily too...
 
2013-10-25 12:42:30 PM
In a 'regular' vehicle without the steel plate on the bottom the driver might have been missing a foot or had a steel beam up their butt.
 
2013-10-25 12:42:51 PM

tricycleracer: Squawky: jshine: Corvus: I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.
.
2) if you ran out of "fuel" in an awkward location (yes, yes, this should never happen, I know), there is no way to bring fuel to the car; you'd have to tow it to an outlet
.
"Hello, Triple-A?" I need a battery swap on I70.. "

Barring that, generators would become standard equipment on tow trucks.  At 240V, you can get about a half-mile a minute into the battery.



Yes, that'd be a much better idea than a swap, I'd think.
 
2013-10-25 12:43:20 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: itsaidwhat: DarkSoulNoHope: There should be an investigation, but to the Republicans it doesn't matter, even if the results came out positively for the Tesla company. If it isn't an oil distillate powered vehicle, than it doesn't belong on the road in their opinion, because that would hurt the profits of oil companies that they support over the attempts to investigate alternative, less damaging ways to generate energy.

Your "green" technology only exists on the shoulders of the nuclear defense industry.

Would you like to know where the lithium material in all those batteries came from? Well, you can thank the nuclear weapons industry for creating a massive stockpile of excess lithium.

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/forms.jsp?formurl=document/press/pc23.ht m l


"Q. What are plans for disposition of the lithium hydroxide at Portsmouth and Oak Ridge? Is it waste?

A. The lithium hydroxide at both Portsmouth and Oak Ridge will be disposed of by a negotiated sale to major lithium producers. Lithium hydroxide is not considered a waste by the Department."

All declassified.

Progress doesn't mean stopping at one energy source and then sticking with it, besides what would you do with the waste lithium, dump it? I rather it be recycled into batteries.


I'm not disagreeing. I'm only pointing out that electric devices rely on energy that has to be delivered by some natural resource. In this case, lithium (and probably the nickel too) which was a valuable byproduct of the nuclear defense industry history.
 
2013-10-25 12:48:38 PM

Cletus C.: Ned Stark: Cletus C.: A car priced for the wealthy that promises a trickle down sometime in the future for the less-well-to-do. Yet it's green, so ....

Yes because a first generation tech product marketed to early adopters is entirely analogous to national tax and economic policy.

It's priced out of range of most Americans. That's OK in this scenario. Trust us, you'll get yours later, poors.


Yes, that's literally how it works. Production of early luxury models builds experience and knowledge so that more and more efficient(and therefore cheap) meathods can be found and sale of same at luxury prices finances future production. Then prices fall.

Its one of the few things capitalism is good at.
 
2013-10-25 12:48:43 PM

itsaidwhat: I'm not disagreeing. I'm only pointing out that electric devices rely on energy that has to be delivered by some natural resource. In this case, lithium (and probably the nickel too) which was a valuable byproduct of the nuclear defense industry history.


I wonder if it's isotopically-enriched lithium then (or depleted)?  ...because if you're building a hydrogen bomb, you could use natural lithium, but the US uses enriched lithium-6 in weapons production.
 
2013-10-25 12:48:44 PM
That's why I only drive cars that run on Safe, Clean Nuclear Power.

img.pandawhale.com

www.independentaustralia.net

Plus, I've only had to fill it up once in the last 60 years. Those Libyan terrorists were sure upset I shorted them.
 
2013-10-25 12:50:11 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: That's why I only drive cars that run on Safe, Clean Nuclear Power.

Plus, I've only had to fill it up once in the last 60 years. Those Libyan terrorists were sure upset I shorted them.


Well how else would you generate those 1.21 jiggawatts?
 
2013-10-25 12:51:13 PM

006deluxe: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Probably not worth the bother...

I mean, what are the odds the same thing would happen to 1 of the other 3?

/If you don't live in California, you have about the same chance of seeing a Tesla Roadster in person as someone visiting the Iowa State Fair has of getting bitten by a shark.

I work in SE PA and live in DE. I saw two different Model S's on the same night commuting home on 202 South. They were even the same color. The only reason I knew they were different was because one had PA plate "Tesla 3" and the other was DE plate "NO GAS".

There's also a Roadster scooting about somewhere in the area.


Sorry guys...

I forgot I was on the internet.

I concede, you all have at least 2 Teslas in you garage.

One for daily use and one to use on weekends.
 
2013-10-25 12:51:14 PM
Wow, people get testy when you question their soulless, overpriced hoverrounds.
 
2013-10-25 12:52:20 PM
Is the Tesla really a target of Republican rage? I mean it's not surprising if it's coming from the extreme Right and yes the GOP has a serious issue with their more moderate members not saying anything about anything but I would think anyone with conservative free market values wouldn't have a problem with just letting products exist and survive on the market.  I do think that the value of innovation has been downplayed lately for some odd reason.  That's always been America's greatest strength.  American industry essentially invented and created the technology that seems so critical to all first world societies. I don't see the reasoning behind railing against any advancement in technology and I'm a Republican!
 
2013-10-25 12:53:57 PM
That's why I won't buy one. Gasoline isn't flammable so I know my car will never catch on fire
 
2013-10-25 12:55:16 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: That's why I only drive cars that run on Safe, Clean Nuclear Power.

[img.pandawhale.com image 568x459]

[www.independentaustralia.net image 512x362]

Plus, I've only had to fill it up once in the last 60 years. Those Libyan terrorists were sure upset I shorted them.


That's always been something I've been curious about.  If we have submarines, albeit enormous pieces of machinery, with their own nuclear reactors, how difficult would it be to create a land vehicle with a nuclear reactor.  My brother is a nuclear engineer and I'm always asking him how small can a nuclear reactor feasibly be?  The answer I get is that even the smallest reactors produce so much energy that it wouldn't be prudent to just power a single vehicle off it.  So I'm thinking, home nuclear reactors to power your electric car, and the rest of the neighborhood.  Sure we'd lose a few souls here and there, but hey, progress!
 
2013-10-25 12:55:50 PM

Jacobin: That's why I won't buy one. Gasoline isn't flammable so I know my car will never catch on fire


I don't know where you learned that, but it's totally wrong. Gasoline is very flammable.
 
2013-10-25 12:56:32 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Jacobin: That's why I won't buy one. Gasoline isn't flammable so I know my car will never catch on fire

I don't know where you learned that, but it's totally wrong. Gasoline is very flammable.


I thought it was inflammable.
 
2013-10-25 12:59:20 PM
it's a feature of the car
 
2013-10-25 01:00:22 PM
Gas cars burn up every single day in America, but by all means let's take a shiat-fit over ONE TESLA that caught fire.

/This message brought to you (repeatedly) by the U.S. petroleum industry
 
2013-10-25 01:00:33 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Jacobin: That's why I won't buy one. Gasoline isn't flammable so I know my car will never catch on fire

I don't know where you learned that, but it's totally wrong. Gasoline is very flammable.


I love you.
 
2013-10-25 01:01:37 PM

DubtodaIll: AverageAmericanGuy: Jacobin: That's why I won't buy one. Gasoline isn't flammable so I know my car will never catch on fire

I don't know where you learned that, but it's totally wrong. Gasoline is very flammable.

I thought it was inflammable.


Exactly -- in-flammable -- that means more than flammable.  It's not only flammable, it's inflammable.
 
2013-10-25 01:01:49 PM

Corvus: Because gas cars NEVER catch on fire. ?

I always don't understand the hate for new technology. People just want to attack things because they are afraid of change.


Seems like you understand the hate just fine.
 
2013-10-25 01:03:38 PM
The funny (sad actually) thing about this is how blatant the spin is and who is driving it. GIS 'car fire' shows you what a gasoline powered car fire looks like.


chimp_ninja:
jayhawk88: New things are scary.

That's part of it, but also read today's bike thread to see the other half of that.  Bicycles aren't new things, but talk about how you bike to work and the haters come out.



Not a good comparison.  People hate cyclists because a lot of them are complete assholes one the road, only applying the laws of the road to cars while flagrantly disregarding them.  The hate for Tesla and the like is a mix of the 'new thing bad trug hate' and carefully and skillfully executed marketing, like a picture of a relatively tame fire (the firefighters are a few feet away) after a catastrophic/freak accident being proof of how dangerous a car is.  It's like posting a picture of the WTC after the first plane struck and saying how dangerous high rises are.
 
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