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(Yahoo)   Rental property is so expensive in London it's now cheaper to live in Barcelona and commute every day   (uk.finance.yahoo.com) divider line 62
    More: Silly, safe area, EUR.1, rentals  
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6019 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Oct 2013 at 10:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-25 10:35:59 AM  
i2.mirror.co.uk

Que?
 
2013-10-25 10:36:31 AM  
That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us do our jobs from there.
 
2013-10-25 10:38:35 AM  
Russians.
 
2013-10-25 10:38:53 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: [i2.mirror.co.uk image 615x409]

Que?


Done in one.
 
2013-10-25 10:39:14 AM  
With their blonde girlfriends and tiny giraffes.
 
2013-10-25 10:43:42 AM  
Only if your time is worthless.
 
2013-10-25 10:45:21 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us do our jobs from there.


But have your bosses figured that out?

/heading to work now
// the only reason I'm going in is for a teleconference
///which I could do from home if my boss didn't insist I sit right next to him at the conference table
 
2013-10-25 10:45:53 AM  
Both seem outrageous for what you get.
 
2013-10-25 10:47:18 AM  
Easy enough to live in Mayfair or Knightsbridge if you're a Russian oligarch or gangster, or a middle eastern tyrant. Money is no object when you've obtained it through the blood of others, and it's driven house prices up to unbelievable heights in the posh areas.
 
2013-10-25 10:47:41 AM  
supply and demand. there is still net movement into London, mostly among 20-29 year olds who can't afford to buy
 
2013-10-25 10:48:23 AM  
Right, so based on the cheapest available flight, with no luggage, at a time of year nobody wants to go to London, and a willingness to devote six plus hours a day to commuting, I can live in a ropey area of Barcelona instead of central London?

How about no...
 
2013-10-25 10:49:06 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: [i2.mirror.co.uk image 615x409]

Que?


Aaaaaand we're done.
 
2013-10-25 10:49:44 AM  
Or he could live in Milton Keynes and commute from there.
 
2013-10-25 10:49:44 AM  

Robo Beat: Only if your time is worthless.

Dead on.  The opportunity cost of screwing around with airports in both directions is massive.  I honestly can't see that being less than 2 to 2.5 hours each direction.  Yes, you might save 500 bucks or whatever, but is that worth about 60-80 hours a month of your time?
 
2013-10-25 10:50:32 AM  
What about Germany.  That's a short train ride in the morning, isn't it?

/It's the american way.
//with border crossing searches
 
2013-10-25 10:53:20 AM  
It's also actually quicker to get to work in central London from Southampton, 60+ miles away on the south coast, than it is from a number of parts of London.
 
2013-10-25 10:54:20 AM  

Gothnet: It's also actually quicker to get to work in central London from Southampton, 60+ miles away on the south coast, than it is from a number of parts of London.


Boris Johnson and Transport for London have an eye on this problem and are working hard to remedy it. Just ask them; they'll tell you.
 
2013-10-25 10:57:59 AM  

FarkinNortherner


Right, so based on the cheapest available flight, with no luggage, at a time of year nobody wants to go to London, and a willingness to devote six plus hours a day to commuting, I can live in a ropey area of Barcelona instead of central London?

How about no...


If you manage to RTFA you will notice that A) the Barcelona neighborhood is comparable to the one in London, B) the guy in the interview freely admits that it would be "completely unsustainable", and C) that inteview-guy does not actually live in Spain. (He shares a flat in UK.)

So you're right except for all the areas where you're wrong.

tl:dr - TFA was a thought exercise, not a historical account.
 
2013-10-25 11:03:10 AM  

FarkinNortherner: Right, so based on the cheapest available flight, with no luggage, at a time of year nobody wants to go to London, and a willingness to devote six plus hours a day to commuting, I can live in a ropey area of Barcelona instead of central London?

How about no...


The amount of money I'd have to spend on airport drinks just to tolerate that miserable existence would more than offset the money I saved doing this.
 
2013-10-25 11:03:28 AM  
he'd get to work at 9:30 and work a 4 day week? sounds nice.
 
2013-10-25 11:09:40 AM  

menschenfresser: Gothnet: It's also actually quicker to get to work in central London from Southampton, 60+ miles away on the south coast, than it is from a number of parts of London.

Boris Johnson and Transport for London have an eye on this problem and are working hard to remedy it. Just ask them; they'll tell you.


LOL. I'm sure they're trying their best, I really am. Fluffy-haired comedian that he is....

I was a Londoner for 8 years and I honestly think TFL usually do a pretty good job. It's just that there is no way to move though the suburbs as quickly as you can get the express into Waterloo :)
 
2013-10-25 11:10:19 AM  
Sure it's $3500 a month for a dingy 400 sq. ft studio flat, but what about the weather and the food?
 
2013-10-25 11:12:08 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us

companies have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us lower-wage people in China or India do our jobs from there.
 
2013-10-25 11:12:29 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us do our jobs from there.


That word doesn't mean what you think it means.  BLS says that only 24% of Americans get to spend ANY time telecommuting.

/Would love a job that allowed that.  I could certainly swing 700 euros a month living in Barcelona and wouldn't mind working a 2:00 to 10:30 shift.
 
2013-10-25 11:14:09 AM  
I have a good friend who lives in San Jose - he and his wife both like to golf.  It's cheaper for them to own a condo in Vegas, join 2 different country clubs, and fly there every weekend than it is to join a club in Silicon Valley.

/he actually does it
//unlike TFA's idiot who just did a paper exercise
 
2013-10-25 11:14:18 AM  

Gothnet: It's also actually quicker to get to work in central London from Southampton, 60+ miles away on the south coast, than it is from a number of parts of London.


Same with commuting to downtown San Francisco from other San Francisco neighborhoods vs the Bay Area exurbs.
 
2013-10-25 11:14:33 AM  

StopLurkListen: AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us companies have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us lower-wage people in China or India do our jobs from there.


Just as untrue as the previous guys' statement.
 
2013-10-25 11:17:57 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: [i2.mirror.co.uk image 615x409]

Que?


DAMN! Done in one. Very nice.
 
2013-10-25 11:18:06 AM  

micah1701: he'd get to work at 9:30 and work a 4 day week? sounds nice.


Social media manager.

I loled at the idea this guy is a "professional"
 
2013-10-25 11:21:06 AM  

Englebert Slaptyback: FarkinNortherner

Right, so based on the cheapest available flight, with no luggage, at a time of year nobody wants to go to London, and a willingness to devote six plus hours a day to commuting, I can live in a ropey area of Barcelona instead of central London?

How about no...


If you manage to RTFA you will notice that A) the Barcelona neighborhood is comparable to the one in London, B) the guy in the interview freely admits that it would be "completely unsustainable", and C) that inteview-guy does not actually live in Spain. (He shares a flat in UK.)

So you're right except for all the areas where you're wrong.

tl:dr - TFA was a thought exercise, not a historical account.


...and therefore pointless, except that the friggin' thought exercise was then used as a justification for arguing against the higher prices in London. "I took a 'completely unsustainable' hypothetical discussion, and then used it to push back against a sustainable, actual situation."

It's a dumb article.
 
2013-10-25 11:22:21 AM  

micah1701: he'd get to work at 9:30 and work a 4 day week? sounds nice.


so, he gets to work around lunch time, and works 3 days less a week.  if someone would have told me lawyer was a shiat job choice.
 
2013-10-25 11:22:38 AM  
The frustrating part of life is realizing there no free ride.

Wide open spaces usually mean fewer opportunities for well-paying jobs, but significantly cheaper lodging costs.

The highest-paying jobs are usually in crowded, expensive, cities.  If you love New York or Chicago you either put up with the insanity, live way out and commute, or work & live in Milwaukee and visit "the big city" occasionally.

Such is life--enjoy the little things.  I like driving 25 minutes one direction to work or 20 minutes the other for the gun club and trap shooting.
 
2013-10-25 11:23:56 AM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

"Hello! Hmm... New Teeth... That's Weird... So where was I? Oh, That's Right! Barcelona!"
 
2013-10-25 11:32:24 AM  
I see all this commute hate, but there's a certain breed of New Yorker who commutes to the city two hours each day, puts in 8 hours plus lunch, then worries about catching the last express before 7:30pm so he can get home just in time to sleep, and still considers himself a New Yorker.
 
2013-10-25 11:37:12 AM  

wildcardjack: I see all this commute hate, but there's a certain breed of New Yorker who commutes to the city two hours each day, puts in 8 hours plus lunch, then worries about catching the last express before 7:30pm so he can get home just in time to sleep, and still considers himself a New Yorker.


Yes.  The rest of us call that "New Jersey".
 
2013-10-25 11:40:46 AM  

FizixJunkee: AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us do our jobs from there.

But have your bosses figured that out?

/heading to work now
// the only reason I'm going in is for a teleconference
///which I could do from home if my boss didn't insist I sit right next to him at the conference table


Mine has, and it's AWESOME.
 
2013-10-25 11:41:02 AM  

mike_d85: wildcardjack: I see all this commute hate, but there's a certain breed of New Yorker who commutes to the city two hours each day, puts in 8 hours plus lunch, then worries about catching the last express before 7:30pm so he can get home just in time to sleep, and still considers himself a New Yorker.

Yes.  The rest of us call that "New Jersey".


Or nutmegger.

And it's only an hour total each way!
 
2013-10-25 11:43:04 AM  
A friend of mine is a particle physics professor from Japan who gained a position at Queen Mary University London. He arrived in September and still can't find an affordable flat to rent, so he's staying at a youth hostel in the interim. I sent him the article. He's pretty gonzo and actually just might do something kooky like commute from Barcelona.
 
2013-10-25 11:43:32 AM  

fickenchucker: The frustrating part of life is realizing there no free ride.

Wide open spaces usually mean fewer opportunities for well-paying jobs, but significantly cheaper lodging costs.

The highest-paying jobs are usually in crowded, expensive, cities.  If you love New York or Chicago you either put up with the insanity, live way out and commute, or work & live in Milwaukee and visit "the big city" occasionally.

Such is life--enjoy the little things.  I like driving 25 minutes one direction to work or 20 minutes the other for the gun club and trap shooting.


You pays your money and you makes your choices.  I've lived in big cities and smaller towns, and each has its own charms.   Big urban areas are expensive, but the opportunities are amazing.   Smaller communities are more limited, but often cheaper and far less hectic.

I used to live in Los Angeles, now I live in a smaller community north of there.  As self-employed, I have a much smaller potential client base here and it's a two hour drive to the airport, but rent is cheaper and the traffic etc. is so much lighter.  It's a trade off, but I'm happy to be rid of the 'city stress'.   If I were ten years younger it might be a totally different choice though.
 
2013-10-25 11:47:42 AM  
What is a Council Tax as mentioned in the article? I get the idea of a 2 zone bus pass to get to different areas of the city.
 
2013-10-25 12:01:54 PM  
It's amazing what human greed will accomplish. Gotta charge what the market will bear you know. Squeeze those pennies 'till the squeak. It's so much FUN ripping people off.

It always shake my head when I hear people whine and complain how rental accommodation is "s-o-o-o expensive" in downtown areas, but would not hesitate to do exactly the same if they owned properties in those places themselves.

Those downtown office towers are penile substitutes for the financial guys.

If businesses really want to keep good people (1) Locate the head office in the 'burbs instead of downtown and (2) Allow your people to telecommute. Stop being such a fuddy-duddy old stick-in-the-mud about technology.  It's not the 1970s any more.
 
2013-10-25 12:03:13 PM  

lelio: What is a Council Tax as mentioned in the article? I get the idea of a 2 zone bus pass to get to different areas of the city.


It is a tax levied by the local government that is used to pay for amenities like schools, road maintenance, rubbish collections etc.
 
2013-10-25 12:05:26 PM  
I will care in 3, 2, ...
 
2013-10-25 12:07:15 PM  

lelio: What is a Council Tax as mentioned in the article? I get the idea of a 2 zone bus pass to get to different areas of the city.


It is a tax levied on all houses, in theory to pay for the services that your local council provide plus the emergency services. The cost of the tax is based on the location of the house and its size, with a rebate if you are a single occupant.
 
2013-10-25 12:08:22 PM  

lelio: What is a Council Tax as mentioned in the article? I get the idea of a 2 zone bus pass to get to different areas of the city.



Council tax is basically property tax. It's paid by the resident, not the owner (so if you're a renter you pay it) to the local council, who use if for.... I dunno, local stuff.

The amount you pay is based on an assessed market rate of the property, somehow back-calculated to sometime in the 90s when the last country-wide valuation exercise took place. Or something. In London in varies wildly by exactly which borough you live in. IIRC Wandsworth has some of the country's lowest Council Tax rates but right next door in Lambeth we had some of the highest. Last time I remember paying it in Lambeth it was around £1600 per year for our quite large townhouse.
 
2013-10-25 12:14:24 PM  

micah1701: he'd get to work at 9:30 and work a 4 day week? sounds nice.


Sounds European.
 
2013-10-25 12:25:35 PM  

theDesertHamster: lelio: What is a Council Tax as mentioned in the article? I get the idea of a 2 zone bus pass to get to different areas of the city.

It is a tax levied on all houses, in theory to pay for the services that your local council provide plus the emergency services. The cost of the tax is based on the location of the house and its size, with a rebate if you are a single occupant.


It's handled in a similar way here in France.  Rather than a municipal income tax; you have a property tax which is split into two portions: the taxe foncière which is paid by the owner of the property, and the taxe d'habitation which is paid by the person who actually lives there.  Yes, you have to pay property taxes as a renter here, but it's not as if the landlord wouldn't be rolling that into the monthly rent if he were responsible for the whole sum as in the States, so there is that extra bit of transparency to it.

I rent, and the taxe d'habitation for my apartment was somewhere around €225 last year, which isn't bad considering that was the entirety of my tax liability to the city of Paris and it covers trash pickup, street cleaning and maintenance, parks, etc.
 
2013-10-25 12:38:38 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: That's nice. I suppose it's a good deal if you don't work long hours.

But really, most of us have just figured out that we can live where we like and the internet lets us do our jobs from there.


How do you see your monitor through the cloud of smug?
 
2013-10-25 12:40:19 PM  

nucular bum: A friend of mine is a particle physics professor from Japan who gained a position at Queen Mary University London. He arrived in September and still can't find an affordable flat to rent, so he's staying at a youth hostel in the interim. I sent him the article. He's pretty gonzo and actually just might do something kooky like commute from Barcelona.


I had a brother in Phoenix was an absolute radar whiz. The military and the you-know-who guys loved him. What farking pissed me off was these California engineering firms would make an astounding 5 year contract to hire him. Then one year he went out and scoped out the cost of living compared to Phoenix. Low ball isn't a good enough term to describe their offers.

These farking firms had no problem trying to enslave a guy who probably saved countless lives and might have staved off global conflicts. Maybe even nuclear war toe-to-toe with the Russkies...
 
2013-10-25 12:46:35 PM  
I'm not surprised by British people living overseas, they've been doing it for ages now, but Barcelona is stretching it. Presumably the British have run out of affordable housing in Tuscany, the Dordogne, Normandy and Brittany.

Rich people are living in the SF world of Philip K. Dick and Alfred Bester. They may not have teleportation, but a helicopter or a small airplane is just as good as a flying car ever will be.

I expect that you can find people who commute to LA from Montana (let alone Arizona) and that many of the rich Americans who live in airport-access only enclaves (like the one in Florida where the residents have jets parked on their driveways instead of cars--in John Travolta's case, a quite large jet) are as well off as they would be in a SF novel.

Time is money. So is space. They are perfectly fungible in most cases, so you can exchange one for the other--life in the exurbs for commuting time, and bigger houses in places like Barcelona for tiny bedsits in London.

A chambre de bonne (maid's room) the size of a walk-in closet sold for GBP150,000 IIRC because it was near Harrod's. I have seen garages just barely big enough for a small car sell for similar prices. This is rare enough to make Fark headlines, but it is common enough to be a reality for Londoners of all classes.

Humans all want to live on the same few acres of big city where the best of everything can be had. On the other hand, some people, especially the rich, want a place so exclusive even canoeists, mountaineers, and skiers can't get there.

If humans had any sense, they'd be spread out in little villages and towns like rural England and France. Life would be dull, safe, and comfortable but time, space and money would be limited and thus a lot of people would be unhappy.
 
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