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(NPR)   In a cost cutting move, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration stops printing nautical charts. Carnival Cruise Lines: What are nautical charts?   (npr.org) divider line 34
    More: Followup, Carnival Cruise Lines, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, nautical chart, charts  
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739 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Oct 2013 at 10:12 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-25 09:01:00 AM
Major FAIL subby: Carnival Corporation is the one that owns Costa.  Carnival Cruise Lines has no problems with groundings!  Totally different branch of the company.

Fires and ship strandings?  Sure.  Rivers of sewage?  Sure.  But no chart is going to help with that.

[/satire]
 
2013-10-25 09:31:23 AM
Charts are those big sheets of paper with lines and squiggles and numbers on them that show where your f*cking boat is adrift
 
2013-10-25 10:11:57 AM
076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com
How are we supposed to find Thor's Twins now, Jonesy?
 
2013-10-25 10:15:29 AM
Great, so I suppose I'm just not going to have a placemat anymore when I eat at seafood restaurants.
 
2013-10-25 10:15:44 AM
I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.
 
2013-10-25 10:18:15 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Depending on electronic charts without the paper backup seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
 
2013-10-25 10:18:51 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Until you lose power and have to navigate with a dead GPS.
 
2013-10-25 10:24:47 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Until a solar flare prevents your ship from communicating with the satellites that provide your internet connection and GPS.
 
2013-10-25 10:28:49 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Printing charts is just fine and there isn't anything silly about wanting a way to know how to get from A to B without electricity.

I will admit that it is silly to bulk print anything when there are plenty of print shops and home printers that can do the same thing on an as-needed basis.
 
2013-10-25 10:30:05 AM
Please, your boats cannot run without an alternator anyways, pointless objection raisers.
 
2013-10-25 10:31:03 AM

Wellon Dowd: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Until you lose power and have to navigate with a dead GPS.


I hope you never find out that most major airline cockpits are now paperless....I'd hate for you to be concerned!
 
2013-10-25 10:31:17 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Charts are those big sheets of paper with lines and squiggles and numbers on them that show where your f*cking boat is adrift


But that's not important right now.
 
2013-10-25 10:32:21 AM

Wellon Dowd: Until you lose power and have to navigate with a dead GPS.


or gps falls out of it's bracket after taking a small rogue wave broad side while you are in the middle of Key Biscayne and have to navigate the sandbars back to port using dead reckoning, compass and charts.
 
2013-10-25 10:34:05 AM
www.steampunk.dk

Who needs charts when you have Pelorus Jack?

/actually a dolphin, not a fish, but newspapers never get shiat right anyways
 
2013-10-25 10:34:06 AM

mr lawson: Wellon Dowd: Until you lose power and have to navigate with a dead GPS.

or gps falls out of it's bracket after taking a small rogue wave broad side while you are in the middle of Key Biscayne and have to navigate the sandbars back to port using dead reckoning, compass and charts.


If you're in the middle of Key Biscayne on a boat, it's likely on a trailer.
 
2013-10-25 10:35:23 AM

joness0154: If you're in the middle of Key Biscayne on a boat, it's likely on a trailer.


yep....major "doh!" on my part.
lol
 
2013-10-25 10:52:44 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Believe it or not, but some of us actually sail to locations to where there isn't cell service, and certain spots actually don't even get GPS reception. That, plus I don't fully trust my Raymarine chartplotter; depending on the firmware upgrade, it will randomly reset.

I spent about $1,000 on charts this year ($600 on electronic versions). The printed charts are updated every year, so it's a good idea to upgrade. It's fairly common to have previously unmarked, submerged rocks added to the charts up here in the Puget Sound/Alaskan Inside Passage.
 
2013-10-25 10:56:55 AM

wxboy: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Depending on electronic charts without the paper backup seems like a disaster waiting to happen.


So print the .pdfs you'll need before leaving the dock. That's what I'll be doing. Well, that and crying and blubbering that I want to live. Mommy.

/uses a sextant as well as GPS
//probably going to go missing on Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis
 
2013-10-25 11:03:45 AM

miss diminutive: How are we supposed to find Thor's Twins now, Jonesy?


Just give them a ping. One ping only.
 
2013-10-25 11:06:41 AM
www.monsterbelievers.com

Thanks Obama
 
2013-10-25 11:18:58 AM

MrSteve007: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Believe it or not, but some of us actually sail to locations to where there isn't cell service, and certain spots actually don't even get GPS reception. That, plus I don't fully trust my Raymarine chartplotter; depending on the firmware upgrade, it will randomly reset.

I spent about $1,000 on charts this year ($600 on electronic versions). The printed charts are updated every year, so it's a good idea to upgrade. It's fairly common to have previously unmarked, submerged rocks added to the charts up here in the Puget Sound/Alaskan Inside Passage.


If you're not getting GPS signals on a sailboat then your GPS receiver sucks.

I fly in a 100% paperless cockpit now.  2 WAAS GPS receivers built into the aircraft along with 2 stand alone (iPhone & iPad).  There's no need for paper anymore, whether sailing or flying.  If I lose GPS signal (never happened) I can still navigate using pilotage, dead reckoning, and the electronic chart versions I have on the iPhone/iPad.
 
2013-10-25 11:27:45 AM

ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.


Until the Russians shoot down a spy satellite and the debris field wipes out the GPS constellation.
 
2013-10-25 11:54:47 AM

Ambitwistor: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Until the Russians shoot down a spy satellite and the debris field wipes out the GPS constellation.


What does that have to do with electronic charts?

I can use my electronic charts in my aircraft just fine without a GPS signal.  I would use the same techniques (pilotage, dead reckoning) to determine my position with paper charts as I would with an electronic chart.

The GPS signal just takes out the guesswork of where I am, and puts a little dot on the electronic chart showing my position.
 
2013-10-25 12:13:30 PM

joness0154: MrSteve007: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Believe it or not, but some of us actually sail to locations to where there isn't cell service, and certain spots actually don't even get GPS reception. That, plus I don't fully trust my Raymarine chartplotter; depending on the firmware upgrade, it will randomly reset.

I spent about $1,000 on charts this year ($600 on electronic versions). The printed charts are updated every year, so it's a good idea to upgrade. It's fairly common to have previously unmarked, submerged rocks added to the charts up here in the Puget Sound/Alaskan Inside Passage.

If you're not getting GPS signals on a sailboat then your GPS receiver sucks.

I fly in a 100% paperless cockpit now.  2 WAAS GPS receivers built into the aircraft along with 2 stand alone (iPhone & iPad).  There's no need for paper anymore, whether sailing or flying.  If I lose GPS signal (never happened) I can still navigate using pilotage, dead reckoning, and the electronic chart versions I have on the iPhone/iPad.


I've never used my eBrake before, there's no need for it anymore.
 
2013-10-25 12:27:39 PM

joness0154: If you're not getting GPS signals on a sailboat then your GPS receiver sucks.

I fly in a 100% paperless cockpit now.  2 WAAS GPS receivers built into the aircraft along with 2 stand alone (iPhone & iPad).  There's no need for paper anymore, whether sailing or flying.  If I lose GPS signal (never happened) I can still navigate using pilotage, dead reckoning, and the electronic chart versions I have on the iPhone/iPad.


Actually, the gear onboard my boat is the latest and greatest stuff from Raymarine; some $20k worth of radar, AIS transceiver, touchscreen chartplotter, radios and GPS. It doesn't get any better. The only thing she doesn't have is side-scan sonar, which Raymarine doesn't yet make for the consumer market. The difference between flying and sailing is that we have these things called bridges, hills, and cliffs that obscure our view of the sky and we have a keel that goes down some ~6 feet deep. We have big worries about rocks that we can't see. Throw in a strong current, a 18 hp engine for a 5-ton craft plus an occasional tidal whirlpool and it's a whole different game from flying. (I spent quite a bit of time flying a 172)

In my trip up through Desolation Sound and Deception pass last month, I was surprised at the number of times I'd have GPS drop out, but with terrain like this, it isn't too surprising . . .

weibel-lines.typepad.com

www.nealandrhonda.com

Depending on the fjords we'd go up, or our distance from the cliffs, GPS doesn't have a chance.

scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net

The kit of programmable OLED screens at my helm, with synced radar overlay on the touchscreen chartplotter:
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-10-25 12:31:22 PM

maxximillian: joness0154: MrSteve007: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Believe it or not, but some of us actually sail to locations to where there isn't cell service, and certain spots actually don't even get GPS reception. That, plus I don't fully trust my Raymarine chartplotter; depending on the firmware upgrade, it will randomly reset.

I spent about $1,000 on charts this year ($600 on electronic versions). The printed charts are updated every year, so it's a good idea to upgrade. It's fairly common to have previously unmarked, submerged rocks added to the charts up here in the Puget Sound/Alaskan Inside Passage.

If you're not getting GPS signals on a sailboat then your GPS receiver sucks.

I fly in a 100% paperless cockpit now.  2 WAAS GPS receivers built into the aircraft along with 2 stand alone (iPhone & iPad).  There's no need for paper anymore, whether sailing or flying.  If I lose GPS signal (never happened) I can still navigate using pilotage, dead reckoning, and the electronic chart versions I have on the iPhone/iPad.

I've never used my eBrake before, there's no need for it anymore.


That's the greatest analogy I've ever heard!

Do you fly or sail a ship?

Electronic charts are cheaper by a large margin (the savings paid for my iPad in 3 months), easier to update, save on physical space, save on weight, and with proper redundancy (a second iPad or iPhone, in my case) are just as reliable as paper charts.

Honestly, there is no benefit to paper charts over electronic charts anymore.  Which is why very few people are buying them and these entities aren't printing them any more.  I used to be able to walk in to any FBO at any airport and buy a sectional or approach plates....I haven't seen them stocked anywhere anymore.
 
2013-10-25 12:32:36 PM

MrSteve007: joness0154: If you're not getting GPS signals on a sailboat then your GPS receiver sucks.

I fly in a 100% paperless cockpit now.  2 WAAS GPS receivers built into the aircraft along with 2 stand alone (iPhone & iPad).  There's no need for paper anymore, whether sailing or flying.  If I lose GPS signal (never happened) I can still navigate using pilotage, dead reckoning, and the electronic chart versions I have on the iPhone/iPad.

Actually, the gear onboard my boat is the latest and greatest stuff from Raymarine; some $20k worth of radar, AIS transceiver, touchscreen chartplotter, radios and GPS. It doesn't get any better. The only thing she doesn't have is side-scan sonar, which Raymarine doesn't yet make for the consumer market. The difference between flying and sailing is that we have these things called bridges, hills, and cliffs that obscure our view of the sky and we have a keel that goes down some ~6 feet deep. We have big worries about rocks that we can't see. Throw in a strong current, a 18 hp engine for a 5-ton craft plus an occasional tidal whirlpool and it's a whole different game from flying. (I spent quite a bit of time flying a 172)

In my trip up through Desolation Sound and Deception pass last month, I was surprised at the number of times I'd have GPS drop out, but with terrain like this, it isn't too surprising . . .

[weibel-lines.typepad.com image 500x429]

[www.nealandrhonda.com image 448x336]

Depending on the fjords we'd go up, or our distance from the cliffs, GPS doesn't have a chance.

[scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x754]

The kit of programmable OLED screens at my helm, with synced radar overlay on the touchscreen chartplotter:
[scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 717x538]


A lack of GPS signal should not prohibit you from using electronic charts and plotting your position manually (for flying, that's pilotage and dead reckoning).
 
2013-10-25 12:43:46 PM

joness0154: A lack of GPS signal should not prohibit you from using electronic charts and plotting your position manually (for flying, that's pilotage and dead reckoning).


Have you ever sailed a boat before? How about sailing a 30 ft boat in 5 ft breaking waves, exposed for 12-hours in the cockpit to 35 knot winds and rain. I know that you can buy waterproof cases for an iPad, but they don't work very well with saltly air and saltwater. I rely on my chartplotter 95% of the time, but for those 5% of the times when it doesn't work in my area, I fall back to paper charts, strapped to my helm station.

Unlike an airplane, where you're enclosed in a warm cockpit, and land every few hours in a comfy airport - in sailing you'll keep a few days/ week or so away from any dock. Things can and will go wrong, even on a several week trip. Alternators will burn out, inverters short out, battery systems can fail. I guess I could bring a chartplotter, a spare iPad w/ electronic charts, and a spare handheld GPS - then also bring spare solar charging systems, in case my electrical system has an issue.

Or I can simply have a chartplotter & backup paper charts.

/and while it isn't an issue for NOAA waters, when traveling into Canadian waters, they require you to have paper charts of the area you're traveling into.
//currently planning a 3-month, solo sail around Vancouver island next year
 
2013-10-25 12:58:11 PM

joness0154: Ambitwistor: ikanreed: I don't like pointless cost-cutting, but printing charts in the era of GPS and the internet is kind of silly.

Until the Russians shoot down a spy satellite and the debris field wipes out the GPS constellation.

What does that have to do with electronic charts?


Nothing, until the Russians shoot down a spy satellite and the debris field wipes out your sense of humor.
 
2013-10-25 12:58:45 PM
Charts printed by the Government will no longer be available,

But paper charts will still be available.     You or your vendor will have to print them now is all.   Big deal, Chart vendors will have to buy plotters and print them on demand, instead of having to have an inventory of charts that go stale.    It is a change of business practice, but in the long run, will be more cost effective for them.
 
2013-10-25 01:16:39 PM

MrSteve007: in sailing you'll keep a few days/ week or so away from any dock. Things can and will go wrong, even on a several week trip. Alternators will burn out, inverters short out, battery systems can fail. I guess I could bring a chartplotter, a spare iPad w/ electronic charts, and a spare handheld GPS - then also bring spare solar charging systems, in case my electrical system has an issue.


Don't bother arguing, they'll keep comparing it to a 12 hr flight...

As you clearly have experienced, anyone who has spent weeks without seeing land will recognize the enormous risk involved when relying solely on electronic devices.  Just because you haven't had to rely on your backup doesn't mean you won't need it someday.

"Be prepared"
 
2013-10-25 02:00:25 PM
If you own a cruise line, you have the money so you can hire Kinkos to download and print the maps a couple of times a year. This cost cutting move makes perfect sense to me.
 
2013-10-25 04:44:38 PM
I don't care how sophisticated a bridge is today,  all that stuff can break.  No captain should be at sea without paper sharts, compass and sexant.
 
2013-10-25 05:16:45 PM

studebaker hoch: I don't care how sophisticated a bridge is today,  all that stuff can break.  No captain should be at sea without paper sharts, compass and sexant.


Talk about paper cuts...
 
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