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(Engadget)   Wait? I was told that it's the end of the PC era, Surface is a failure, Windows 8 sucks, and Microsoft is dying   (engadget.com) divider line 81
    More: Obvious, Microsoft, Windows  
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4166 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Oct 2013 at 9:31 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-24 08:57:03 PM
Eh. I'd like one of the loaded up Surface 2 Pros.

I mean... I'm not stupid enough to pay 1800 bucks for the thing, but yea, I'd like one.
 
2013-10-24 09:14:07 PM
Microsoft has a huge infrastructure that isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Hopefully the adults will show up soon and put a halt to their Windows purity shenanigans.

It's any port in a storm.

/and hopefully the next port is linuxland
 
2013-10-24 09:34:40 PM
Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.
 
2013-10-24 09:35:10 PM
I have a Surface.
It works fine for me.
I use Windows.
It works fine for me.
 
2013-10-24 09:38:47 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


IBM figured that out, so will Microsoft.
 
2013-10-24 09:46:50 PM

Marcus Aurelius: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

IBM figured that out, so will Microsoft.


I hope so.  I was planning on buying some of their stock
 
2013-10-24 09:47:24 PM
Who told you any of that, subby?
 
2013-10-24 09:49:09 PM

Minimum: I have a Surface.
It works fine for me.
I use Windows.
It works fine for me.


Did you purchase it?
 
2013-10-24 09:50:25 PM

Marcus Aurelius: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

IBM figured that out, so will Microsoft.


And from the article, they have.  While their Windows revenue is wayyyyy down, the increased profit came from..... Commercial Services.

/I think people also forget that Microsoft owns a huge chunk of mid-range accounting software with multiple flavors.  They aren't going away, they just need to reinvent themselves
//would consider 8.1 if they rolled the price back again
 
2013-10-24 09:50:50 PM

ElLoco: Eh. I'd like one of the loaded up Surface 2 Pros.

I mean... I'm not stupid enough to pay 1800 bucks for the thing, but yea, I'd like one.


This...but i don't even have $1800 to blow...
 
2013-10-24 09:51:46 PM
If you think any giant corporation would ever be wiped off the map, you're kidding yourself. MS will exist for at least 100 more years
 
2013-10-24 09:52:42 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


People still use Office at work.

People will always use Office at work.

The very reason for the PCs existence is to use Office at work.
 
2013-10-24 09:54:45 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


Microsoft should fire all the programmers who do nothing but rearrange where stuff is in excel/word and instantly double their quarterly profits.

/and break the knees of everyone invovled with outlook.
 
2013-10-24 09:57:32 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


A breakdown of this quarter, vs. last year, by the NY Times:

~~Revenue (in billions)
Devices and Consumer Licensing
2013: $4.3
2012: $4.6
Devices and Consumer Hardware
2013: 1.5
2012: 1.0
Devices and Consumer Other
2013: 1.6
2012: 1.4
Commercial Licensing
2013: 9.6
2012: 8.9
Commercial Other
2013: 1.6
2012: 1.3
Corporate and Other
2013: (0.1)
2012: (1.3)

With a ~50% bump in revenue from the Devices and Consumer Hardware (Surface, Phone, and Xbox) division, they're seeing solid growth from consumers. Spinning off that division would be stupid.
 
2013-10-24 09:57:45 PM

IanMoone: Marcus Aurelius: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

IBM figured that out, so will Microsoft.

And from the article, they have.  While their Windows revenue is wayyyyy down, the increased profit came from..... Commercial Services.

/I think people also forget that Microsoft owns a huge chunk of mid-range accounting software with multiple flavors.  They aren't going away, they just need to reinvent themselves
//would consider 8.1 if they rolled the price back again




You mean FoxPro?
 
2013-10-24 09:59:31 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


In the enterprise setting, what else is there other than Office?

Every office suite prides themselves on being able to convert to .doc(x) or .xls(x). When that changes you may have a point about Office.
 
2013-10-24 10:04:35 PM

MyPoolLeaks: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

In the enterprise setting, what else is there other than Office?

Every office suite prides themselves on being able to convert to .doc(x) or .xls(x). When that changes you may have a point about Office.


The year of the Linux desktop is right around the corner!
 
2013-10-24 10:04:49 PM
I was surprised that they came out with an RT version of the Surface again. I thought RT was a disaster last time (so it makes sense the new labelling hides what it is), and it seems pointless to force it.

Are they selling more of those than I realize, or is there some strategy here that I'm not grasping, or what?
 
2013-10-24 10:17:28 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


^^^ These reason threads like this have existed every month for the past 15 years. ^^^

Minimum: I have a Surface.
It works fine for me.
I use Windows.
It works fine for me.


^^^ The reason Microsoft makes billions more every month for the past 15 years. ^^^
 
2013-10-24 10:17:31 PM

HempHead: You mean FoxPro?


Their customer service was the best I've ever experienced.   Within three minutes you were talking to a human who knew the product.  If they didn't have a fix on hand they would call you every couple of hours until a patch/fix was ready just to let you know you weren't forgotten.

Within weeks of being swallowed up service went to utter sh*t.
 
2013-10-24 10:18:14 PM
So according to the article, Surface sales have risen from abysmal to dis-spiriting.
 
2013-10-24 10:18:43 PM
I love my Surface.  I'll never by another laptop again. My partner will probably buy a new one (Surface 2). I'll probably buy a new one and hand this one off to one of our junior employees.

Granted, we're a MS partner and use everything MS for dev (VS, TFs, etc), but this thing works great.
 
2013-10-24 10:18:59 PM
I tied myself into the Apple ecosystem: MacbookPro, iPad, iPhone, iPods laying around the house...

But that said, I think the surface is a brilliant product, just horribly marketed and with software that wasn't ready. Sometimes I almost wish I had stayed a PC user...
 
2013-10-24 10:21:28 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: I was surprised that they came out with an RT version of the Surface again. I thought RT was a disaster last time (so it makes sense the new labelling hides what it is), and it seems pointless to force it.

Are they selling more of those than I realize, or is there some strategy here that I'm not grasping, or what?


Price point.
 
2013-10-24 10:24:56 PM

HempHead: IanMoone: Marcus Aurelius: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

IBM figured that out, so will Microsoft.

And from the article, they have.  While their Windows revenue is wayyyyy down, the increased profit came from..... Commercial Services.

/I think people also forget that Microsoft owns a huge chunk of mid-range accounting software with multiple flavors.  They aren't going away, they just need to reinvent themselves
//would consider 8.1 if they rolled the price back again

You mean FoxPro?


Nope. Microsoft Dynamics.

It's a modular system that includes options for CRM and what used to be Great Plains Accounting. It's actually pretty decent software for a mid-size business that has outgrown Quickbooks.
 
2013-10-24 10:25:50 PM
I use Apple products because I do editing and motion graphics and all that shiat but if I didn't, I can't imagine why I'd shell out the coin for a Mac to do email and looking at cats on the web.
 
2013-10-24 10:26:52 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


What, exactly, is replacing Microsoft Office?
 
2013-10-24 10:41:12 PM
Nobody is upgrading because they really don't need to. My work computer is running a 2007 version of ADP software (not my choice) on an XP machine.

As an accountant and a title processor for a car dealership, I don't need any more. Most of my job has been condensed into spreadsheets, contact lists, and procedural fixes. I got the boss to spend $40 to upgrade my RAM from 1GB to 4GB. There is no need to upgrade because the minimal processing power I use still works because large sweeping changes to tax codes or vehicle title laws are extremely rare.
 
2013-10-24 10:42:17 PM
If they would just let the Surface RT join domains they could take a big chunk of the tablet market with enterprise. The Pro is just too expensive to scale as a luxury productivity device and the biggest weakness of the ipad is the lukewarm integration with mdm and remote management solutions
 
2013-10-24 10:47:58 PM

Lost Thought 00: If you think any giant corporation would ever be wiped off the map, you're kidding yourself. MS will exist for at least 100 more years


Woolworths's.  Founded in 1878 and for the first half of the 20th century was the largest retailer in the US and one of (if not the first) multinational retail chain.  Bankrupt and dissolved in 1997.

Commodore.  Famous computer company, made the iconic Commodore 64 home computer and the very advanced for it's time Amiga computer.  Bankrupt and defunct as of 1994

Atari.  The company that invented the video game console as we know it, and basically created the modern video game industry. . .closed forever in 2003 (after surviving bankruptcy in 1984).

Enron.  Energy conglomerate that made revenues of $101 Billion in 2000. . .suffered the largest bankruptcy in US history in 2001 when it was determined that the accountants had played elaborate games with the books to inflate accounts.  Officially dissolved in 2004.

Barings Bank.  Founded 1762, In the 1800's was the single largest and most powerful bank in the world (as in commercial bank, not a central bank). . .collapsed in 1995 due to too many bad investments causing losses in the billions.  At the time of it's collapse it had been around 233 years making it the oldest bank on Earth at the time.

No company is immortal.  Even titans can, and will, die one day.  It may take centuries, but any company can go bankrupt and any company can fail.  Even Apple.  Even Microsoft. . .even Wal-Mart.
 
2013-10-24 10:53:23 PM

MyPoolLeaks: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

In the enterprise setting, what else is there other than Office?

Every office suite prides themselves on being able to convert to .doc(x) or .xls(x). When that changes you may have a point about Office.


you're joking about "what else" in the enterprise is MS right? you have to be.

in case you aren't, here is a short list.

SQL Server,
Active directory,
Server 2008,
Server 2003,
IIS,
Exchange,

just some small stuff, but yea, I guess Word and Powerpoint are the end all be all of enterprise software.
 
2013-10-24 10:59:04 PM
I was just thinking today that what they need to do with Win RT is to put it on a cheap, but thin and solidly built laptop chassis so they can position it against the Chromebooks. I'm not terribly fond of RT on a tablet form factor, but I could see it working for a cheap and light productivity machine with all day long battery life.
 
2013-10-24 11:12:06 PM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Nobody is upgrading because they really don't need to. My work computer is running a 2007 version of ADP software (not my choice) on an XP machine.

As an accountant and a title processor for a car dealership, I don't need any more. Most of my job has been condensed into spreadsheets, contact lists, and procedural fixes. I got the boss to spend $40 to upgrade my RAM from 1GB to 4GB. There is no need to upgrade because the minimal processing power I use still works because large sweeping changes to tax codes or vehicle title laws are extremely rare.


We're slowly upgrading our aging 32 bit XP machines at work to 64 bit Win 7 machines, mainly because the old ones are no longer capable of streaming cat videos from You Tube properly due to web browser bloat. Most are going from single core Intel PIIIs/P4s to dual core AMD A4s because they're darmn cheap to acquire (less than $100 for MB, memory, and processor) and more than capable of doing the job. Our Exchange server on the other hand is still chugging along just fine running Windows Small Business 2003. We're discussing upgrading to something that can run Exchange 2007 next year, but only because some people want to properly handle email through their phones.

This is the number 1 reason PC sales have dropped. Most businesses just don't need the horsepower that new machines produce and they know it.
 
2013-10-24 11:15:17 PM
Though I have so much of my info/email/calendar tied up with Google services on my phone, I'm temped to get a WP8. I saw someone's Windows phone, and it looks and works great.And honestly Jelly Bean is looking kind of dated and functions so-so compared to WP8.
 
2013-10-24 11:17:16 PM
Microsoft really needs to do is make a adfor lulz with Felicia Day handing her Surface 2 to Olivia Munn to use as Xbox Glass on Munn's Xbox One.
/Tech Bloggers heads would assplode,
 
2013-10-24 11:18:24 PM
My Windows 8 desktop computer has been in storage for over a month because I moved across county. I picked up a Chromebook so I could look for a job and have something I could watch Netflix/Hulu on. Instead of buying a $400+ laptop i decided to pick up a Chromebook for $250.  I am am amazed on what I could do on my Chromebook as long as I have an internet connection. The only thing I can't do is play World of Warcraft.
 
2013-10-24 11:19:00 PM
The overwhelming majority of corporate users will never, ever, require a box better than a XP SP3 machine.
 
2013-10-24 11:22:41 PM

skinink: Though I have so much of my info/email/calendar tied up with Google services on my phone, I'm temped to get a WP8. I saw someone's Windows phone, and it looks and works great.And honestly Jelly Bean is looking kind of dated and functions so-so compared to WP8.


Here ya go http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-8-gdr2-google-acc o unt-support
 
2013-10-24 11:29:08 PM

2wolves: The overwhelming majority of corporate users will never, ever, require a box better than a XP SP3 machine.


In large corps with good IT departments that is very true. For smaller businesses that have overworked (or non-existent) IT departments XP is no longer capable of overcoming the bloat of modern software (search/toolbars) that users manage to install. Fortunately you can pick up decent hardware that will run Win 7 or even Win 8 beautifully (even with search/toolbars) for a couple hundred bucks.
 
2013-10-24 11:31:32 PM

MadCat: 2wolves: The overwhelming majority of corporate users will never, ever, require a box better than a XP SP3 machine.

In large corps with good IT departments that is very true. For smaller businesses that have overworked (or non-existent) IT departments XP era hardware is no longer capable of overcoming the bloat of modern software (search/toolbars) that users manage to install. Fortunately you can pick up decent hardware that will run XP, Win 7, or even Win 8 beautifully (even with search/toolbars) for a couple hundred bucks.


FTFM
 
2013-10-24 11:32:55 PM

gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.


Office is making more money now than it ever has. Also: Microsoft's 16 different billion dollar businesses.
 
2013-10-24 11:32:56 PM

SuperT: MyPoolLeaks: gingerjet: Microsoft has a very profitable business.  For now.  But the world is moving away from Windows and people have discovered they don't need the bloatware that is Office.  They should just spin off the XBox business and just focus on the enterprise market.

In the enterprise setting, what else is there other than Office?

Every office suite prides themselves on being able to convert to .doc(x) or .xls(x). When that changes you may have a point about Office.

you're joking about "what else" in the enterprise is MS right? you have to be.

in case you aren't, here is a short list.

SQL Server,
Active directory,
Server 2008,
Server 2003,
IIS,
Exchange,

just some small stuff, but yea, I guess Word and Powerpoint are the end all be all of enterprise software.


I believe his point was that the S&P 500 wasn't about to switch over to Open Office or whatever other crap Office wannabee Gingerjet runs on his Linux box.
 
2013-10-24 11:35:53 PM

2wolves: The overwhelming majority of corporate users will never, ever, require a box better than a XP SP3 machine.


Two easy responses to this nonsense:

1. 64KB of ram, etc. People will always find more to do on their machines.

2. When XP stops receiving updates, companies will stop using it for security reasons.
 
2013-10-24 11:38:50 PM

Silverstaff: Lost Thought 00: If you think any giant corporation would ever be wiped off the map, you're kidding yourself. MS will exist for at least 100 more years

Woolworths's.  Founded in 1878 and for the first half of the 20th century was the largest retailer in the US and one of (if not the first) multinational retail chain.  Bankrupt and dissolved in 1997.

Commodore.  Famous computer company, made the iconic Commodore 64 home computer and the very advanced for it's time Amiga computer.  Bankrupt and defunct as of 1994

Atari.  The company that invented the video game console as we know it, and basically created the modern video game industry. . .closed forever in 2003 (after surviving bankruptcy in 1984).

Enron.  Energy conglomerate that made revenues of $101 Billion in 2000. . .suffered the largest bankruptcy in US history in 2001 when it was determined that the accountants had played elaborate games with the books to inflate accounts.  Officially dissolved in 2004.

Barings Bank.  Founded 1762, In the 1800's was the single largest and most powerful bank in the world (as in commercial bank, not a central bank). . .collapsed in 1995 due to too many bad investments causing losses in the billions.  At the time of it's collapse it had been around 233 years making it the oldest bank on Earth at the time.

No company is immortal.  Even titans can, and will, die one day.  It may take centuries, but any company can go bankrupt and any company can fail.  Even Apple.  Even Microsoft. . .even Wal-Mart.




GE is the only company still surviving from the original DOW components.
 
2013-10-24 11:55:04 PM

2wolves: Minimum: I have a Surface.
It works fine for me.
I use Windows.
It works fine for me.

Did you purchase it?

Yes.  Locally.  I try to support local business.

 
2013-10-24 11:59:08 PM

2wolves: The overwhelming majority of corporate users will never, ever, require a box better than a XP SP3 machine.


"I've got one for you," messaged a hacker from Cambridge. "Some years back, Gates said '640K is more memory than anyone will ever need.'
 
2013-10-24 11:59:45 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Microsoft has a huge infrastructure that isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Hopefully the adults will show up soon and put a halt to their Windows purity shenanigans.

It's any port in a storm.

/and hopefully the next port is linuxland


I've been hearing that since 1999.
 
2013-10-25 12:04:48 AM

Lost Thought 00: If you think any giant corporation would ever be wiped off the map, you're kidding yourself. MS will exist for at least 100 more years


Would you like a list of the dozens of Dow index companies that no longer exist?
 
2013-10-25 12:08:34 AM

oren0: 1. 64KB of ram, etc. People will always find more to do on their machines.


Right now, most people are being held back by their internet connections.  That will have to improve before everyone goes out buying a laptop or desktop every 2 years.
 
2013-10-25 12:09:07 AM

Silverstaff: Lost Thought 00: If you think any giant corporation would ever be wiped off the map, you're kidding yourself. MS will exist for at least 100 more years

Woolworths's.  Founded in 1878 and for the first half of the 20th century was the largest retailer in the US and one of (if not the first) multinational retail chain.  Bankrupt and dissolved in 1997.

Commodore.  Famous computer company, made the iconic Commodore 64 home computer and the very advanced for it's time Amiga computer.  Bankrupt and defunct as of 1994

Atari.  The company that invented the video game console as we know it, and basically created the modern video game industry. . .closed forever in 2003 (after surviving bankruptcy in 1984).

Enron.  Energy conglomerate that made revenues of $101 Billion in 2000. . .suffered the largest bankruptcy in US history in 2001 when it was determined that the accountants had played elaborate games with the books to inflate accounts.  Officially dissolved in 2004.

Barings Bank.  Founded 1762, In the 1800's was the single largest and most powerful bank in the world (as in commercial bank, not a central bank). . .collapsed in 1995 due to too many bad investments causing losses in the billions.  At the time of it's collapse it had been around 233 years making it the oldest bank on Earth at the time.

No company is immortal.  Even titans can, and will, die one day.  It may take centuries, but any company can go bankrupt and any company can fail.  Even Apple.  Even Microsoft. . .even Wal-Mart.


I see you started the list I suggested giving.  How about the likes of Kodak? If you suggested 30 years ago that Kodak would go broke you'd be laughed out of the room.  Not just crappy companies go bankrupt.  You can be the absolute best at something and still go bankrupt.
 
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