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(WTKR)   Drone operator who quit with PTSD was told his missions racked up 1,626 kills   (wtkr.com) divider line 221
    More: Interesting, post-traumatic stress disorders, missions, Prime Minister of Pakistan, Hellfire missile, territorial integrity, field research, Government of Pakistan, Human Rights Watch  
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10916 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2013 at 11:13 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-24 07:10:03 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-24 08:49:24 AM
That's a lot of points!
 
2013-10-24 09:38:08 AM
Maybe they should just start recruiting people on the internet who love to watch gore videos.
 
2013-10-24 09:38:22 AM
I blame Orson Scott Card.
 
2013-10-24 09:41:21 AM
I guess his PTSD was a C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
 
2013-10-24 09:52:01 AM
i1.ytimg.com

M M M M MONSTER KILLLL
 
2013-10-24 09:52:42 AM

Adjective Bird Whiskey: Maybe they should just start recruiting people on the internet who love to watch gore videos.


Yeah, that could never go horribly wrong.
 
2013-10-24 09:57:19 AM
He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?
 
2013-10-24 10:00:51 AM
GAME OVER
 
2013-10-24 10:02:16 AM
That's like 40% of the total amount of US troops killed in an 8-year war in Iraq.  Granted, most of these 1,600+ people were most likely bad people, but that body count, if accurate, is astonishing.
 
2013-10-24 10:02:35 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?


Gotta have something to give to your psychiatrist.
 
2013-10-24 10:10:03 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?


I bet Billy Mitchell could beat that score.
 
2013-10-24 10:21:22 AM

Shostie: Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?

I bet Billy Mitchell could beat that score.


i.imgur.com

"Guess what my call sign was. Go on, guess."
 
2013-10-24 10:34:01 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: That's like 40% of the total amount of US troops killed in an 8-year war in Iraq.  Granted, most of these 1,600+ people were most likely bad people, but that body count, if accurate, is astonishing.


Little poser's got nothin' on Paul Tibbets.
 
2013-10-24 10:44:11 AM

doglover: Three Crooked Squirrels: That's like 40% of the total amount of US troops killed in an 8-year war in Iraq.  Granted, most of these 1,600+ people were most likely bad people, but that body count, if accurate, is astonishing.

Little poser's got nothin' on Paul Tibbets.


Paul didn't have to deal with the pain of bladder discomfort brought on by too many rations of Mountain Dew.
 
2013-10-24 10:53:36 AM
When that death count finally sinks in, if you're any kind of a human, if there's any soul left in there, that's a heavy toll to pay.
 
2013-10-24 10:58:57 AM
I dont get it. I thought PTSD was developed by people who were under threat of physical danger. You know like shells raining down on them. Was he afraid that guy was going to pick up his leg and beat him to death with it?

I understand that watching all those people die and knowing you were the cause would jack you up. But PTSD?


img20.imageshack.us
 
2013-10-24 10:59:57 AM
I've always thought those drone operations were more "fire-and-forget", or that the video returned was more like you'd see during the Gulf War.  But with the way the article started, fark yeah, I can totally see that weighing down your soul.
 
2013-10-24 11:03:04 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont get it. I thought PTSD was developed by people who were under threat of physical danger. You know like shells raining down on them. Was he afraid that guy was going to pick up his leg and beat him to death with it?

I understand that watching all those people die and knowing you were the cause would jack you up. But PTSD?


[img20.imageshack.us image 350x168]



trau·ma
ˈtroumə,ˈtrô-/
noun
1.
a deeply distressing or disturbing experience

Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.
 
2013-10-24 11:14:29 AM

UrukHaiGuyz: Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.


Oh hell yeah.

And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."

I added the highlight. I'm just wondering if we are looking at something new. Would snipers have the same problem? They get to watch in living color the results of their actions.
 
2013-10-24 11:15:26 AM

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: [i.imgur.com image 850x477]


The Enemies gate is DOWN.
 
2013-10-24 11:15:39 AM
I hear GlaDOS, "Congratulations, you murderer".
 
2013-10-24 11:15:50 AM

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: [i.imgur.com image 850x477]


Why do those chairs have seat belts?
 
2013-10-24 11:16:17 AM
The bravery of being out of range...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rekuWIKr55A
 
2013-10-24 11:17:36 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."


It's not just the treat of injury or death that can bring on PTSD. There are other triggers.
 
2013-10-24 11:18:44 AM
Well, I dunno.  Either you know you're killing bad guys or you don't.  Somebody hands me a trigger I'm gonna be sure.
 
2013-10-24 11:18:45 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.

Oh hell yeah.

And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."

I added the highlight. I'm just wondering if we are looking at something new. Would snipers have the same problem? They get to watch in living color the results of their actions.


Yeah, I'd think so. But they're at much higher risk than a guy thousands of miles away from the actual killing, so I'd tend to think of them more as traditional (if very specialized) soldiers. With new kinds of warfare come all-new mental and physical maladies. I'm sure the drone pilots are being studied like crazy to ascertain the potential pitfalls.
 
2013-10-24 11:19:14 AM
I'm kind of disappointed the Hellfire would leave 1 out of 3 alive. Maybe we should change to a different missile.
 
2013-10-24 11:19:48 AM
One dude killed 1,600 people?  That's utterly insane.
 
2013-10-24 11:21:18 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: That's like 40% of the total amount of US troops killed in an 8-year war in Iraq.  Granted, most of these 1,600+ people were most likely bad people, but that body count, if accurate, is astonishing.


A lot of these people fighting US forces in Afghanistan are just people who don't want US forces in Afghanistan. I don't know if I would call them "bad people".
 
2013-10-24 11:21:35 AM
WTF HACKS!
 
2013-10-24 11:21:54 AM
Back in the day, the early guards at Dachau et al had the same problem. They had to be replaced with focused SS officers who traded had traded in their souls. That $109,000 bonus would be more valuable in the hands of researchers to find sociopaths with skills and contain them so they work well but have no compassion.
 
2013-10-24 11:22:07 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.

Oh hell yeah.

And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."

I added the highlight. I'm just wondering if we are looking at something new. Would snipers have the same problem? They get to watch in living color the results of their actions.


DSM-V and VA defintion of PTSD say you are wrong:

http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/pages/dsm5_criteria_ptsd.asp
 
2013-10-24 11:22:36 AM
FYI....This guy is so full of CRAP...he's been outed on military blogs and military networks as a complete BS artist and MEGA Attention WHORE!!

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=38121

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130614/NEWS04/306140020/
 
2013-10-24 11:23:32 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.

Oh hell yeah.

And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."

I added the highlight. I'm just wondering if we are looking at something new. Would snipers have the same problem? They get to watch in living color the results of their actions.


I think drone operators might see more. Just a guess, but I think snipers usually see a silhouette, squeeze the trigger, and the silhouette falls. This guy in TFA saw spurting blood and death throes. He's not even close enough to use one more bullet to end his victim's suffering. All he can do is watch.
 
2013-10-24 11:23:32 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: UrukHaiGuyz: Someone doesn't have to be in physical danger necessarily to damage their psyche. I'd imagine guilt over being the cause of so many deaths would weigh heavily on anyone, as well.

Oh hell yeah.

And trauma I get. But "Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a type of anxiety disorder. It can occur after you have gone through an extreme emotional trauma that involved the threat of injury or death."

I added the highlight. I'm just wondering if we are looking at something new. Would snipers have the same problem? They get to watch in living color the results of their actions.


There are some indications that PTSD can result in some people after any highly stressful situation in which the body has started releasing stress hormones. Typically, that's injury or impending death, but they're starting to see similarities to PTSD in post-partum depression with women who had really terrible multi-hour labor.
 
2013-10-24 11:23:50 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?


I bet he entered ASS as his initials
 
2013-10-24 11:24:24 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: DSM-V and VA defintion of PTSD say you are wrong:


hell I don't know! That's why I'm asking. I don't see how I'd be wrong if I didn't make a statement.

Thanks for the link.
 
2013-10-24 11:24:54 AM

Barry Lyndon's Annuity Cheque: He was given a document totaling the number of people killed in missions in which he'd participated in some form during close to 6,000 hours of flight time.

They seriously give you the equivalent of a video game high score screen at the end of your service?


i have a patch for Oink! River Raid, Chopper Command, and Pitfall 2.
 
2013-10-24 11:25:19 AM
A 1,626 K/D?  I call bullshiat.  I like to think I'm a good player, and I've only got a 2.15.
 
2013-10-24 11:26:00 AM

ChipNASA: FYI....This guy is so full of CRAP...he's been outed on military blogs and military networks as a complete BS artist and MEGA Attention WHORE!!

http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=38121

http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130614/NEWS04/306140020/


...and he isn't a naval aviator? Well, some genius online convinced me.
 
2013-10-24 11:27:35 AM

doglover: Three Crooked Squirrels: That's like 40% of the total amount of US troops killed in an 8-year war in Iraq.  Granted, most of these 1,600+ people were most likely bad people, but that body count, if accurate, is astonishing.

Little poser's got nothin' on Paul Tibbets.


But he never lost a night's sleep over it:

"I'm not proud that I killed 80,000 people, but I'm proud that I was able to start with nothing, plan it and have it work as perfectly as it did... I sleep clearly every night "
 
2013-10-24 11:28:19 AM

Deep Contact: I'm kind of disappointed the Hellfire would leave 1 out of 3 alive. Maybe we should change to a different missile.


Well, apparently it allows the penitent men to pass.
 
2013-10-24 11:28:28 AM
you don't lead them as much.
www.horrorphile.net
 
2013-10-24 11:28:49 AM

Fuggin Bizzy: I think drone operators might see more. Just a guess, but I think snipers usually see a silhouette, squeeze the trigger, and the silhouette falls. This guy in TFA saw spurting blood and death throes. He's not even close enough to use one more bullet to end his victim's suffering. All he can do is watch.


I'd be willing to bet that snipers see and experience a hell of a lot more than drone pilots.
 
2013-10-24 11:29:09 AM

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: [i.imgur.com image 850x477]


Ctrl-f Ender
*no Matches found*

Seriously? I Cannot be the First person to make an Ender's game reference Can I?
 
2013-10-24 11:29:25 AM
I had some co-workers that have done support in the drone areas.
occasionally there would be a strike and some of the pilots (usually the new ones) would hoot and holler and give each other high fives.
The commanders would then have to chew them out and remind them that they did in fact just kill someone.
It probably best that that realization sinks in closer to the 1 mark than the 1000 mark.
 
2013-10-24 11:29:43 AM

Magorn: Dr. DJ Duckhunt: [i.imgur.com image 850x477]

Ctrl-f Ender
*no Matches found*

Seriously? I Cannot be the First person to make an Ender's game reference Can I?


Someone blamed Orson Scott Card
 
2013-10-24 11:29:55 AM
The White House on Tuesday disputed the reports' assertions that drone strikes had broken the law.

withfriendship.com

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Once again, the communication process has broken down between us. It appears to me that you want to skip the arraignment process, go directly to trial, skip that, and get a dismissal. Well, I'm not about to revamp the entire judicial process just because you find yourself in the unique position of defending clients who say they didn't do it.
 
2013-10-24 11:30:02 AM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I dont get it. I thought PTSD was developed by people who were under threat of physical danger. You know like shells raining down on them. Was he afraid that guy was going to pick up his leg and beat him to death with it?


I've read that PTSD might actually be more prevalent among drone operators than combat soldiers (numbers are hard to pin down, what with the stigma and all). They think the higher rates are caused, oddly, by the lack of physical danger. If you shoot someone pointing a gun at you, you can say at the end of the day "it was him or me." But when you spend all day sitting in a comfy chair raining death from the skies half a world away, watching people die on a video game, it creates a disconnect between you and the act of killing that causes an enormous amount of stress.
 
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