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(USA Today)   Three elementary school kids were injured when a cop's gun misfired during a safety demonstration. In other news, police bring live ammo to elementary school safety demonstrations   (usatoday.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, accidental discharge, elementary schools, safety demonstration, KTLA-TV, demos  
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4309 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Oct 2013 at 2:37 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-24 12:25:32 AM  
Misfire? I'd bet good money that it worked exactly as designed.
 
2013-10-24 12:49:46 AM  
misfired != mishandled

Also, I was ASSURED the other day in another thread that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun was a good guy with a gun, so clearly at least one of them was asking for it.
 
2013-10-24 01:00:38 AM  
FTFA:The students were not hit by gunfire in the "accidental misfire" at Newman Elementary School about 11:15 a.m. PT, said Chino Police Department spokeswoman Tamrin Olden

images.tvrage.com
 
2013-10-24 01:07:04 AM  
How does a gun just go off? I never understood that. I mean maybe if it was cocked an had a hair trigger but even then, I don't get it.
 
2013-10-24 01:17:39 AM  

Mugato: How does a gun just go off? I never understood that. I mean maybe if it was cocked an had a hair trigger but even then, I don't get it.


I'm reading between the line FTA "The weapon was mounted to a police motorcycle on display"

I"m thinking a shot gun mounted on a motor cycle on display and the kid pulled a trigger "BOOM"..it's pointed down and fragments hit kids.
 
2013-10-24 02:02:48 AM  
Another responsible cop heard from? Clearly these cops should be held responsible, prosecuted even. I'm sick of this shiat happening.

NOT A STATISTIC
 
2013-10-24 02:19:01 AM  
Misfired? That's just what HE wants you to think.

img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-24 02:23:52 AM  
Oh wow, they're calling it an "accidental misfire."

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&i d= 9298860

"Police said a student approached a police motorcycle that was on display and pulled the trigger of an AR-15 rifle that was locked into a weapons mount on the side of the motorcycle. The rifle was never removed from the mounting device."

...

"Police say two boys suffered minor injuries when they were struck by metal debris that came from the bullet disintegrating as it hit a metal plate where the barrel rests against the weapons mount. According to officials, that's meant to be a fail safe measure, which worked. "

There are at least two things wrong with this.  One is that the weapon was in condition zero, and two, that the police allowed unsupervised access to a loaded firearm.  And an AR-pattern rifle already has a "fail safe," it's called a safety.

violentsalvation: Another responsible cop heard from? Clearly these cops should be held responsible, prosecuted even. I'm sick of this shiat happening.

NOT A STATISTIC


Thanks for the TF.
 
2013-10-24 02:29:46 AM  

Fark It: And an AR-pattern rifle already has a "fail safe," it's called a safety.


And if the kid had played something as simple as Counter-Strike, he knew what that was and how to operate that.

Since when have motorcycle cops carried ARs on their bikes? The ones around here only carry a side-arm.
 
2013-10-24 02:43:28 AM  
Of course they had live ammo! How else would they have fought back against a bad guy with a gun!
 
2013-10-24 02:45:47 AM  
As I wrote in the other (redlit) thread, according to KNX, the gun didn't misfire; a kid deliberately fired the gun, then tried to run away.

/said radio station just ran the story again a little while ago
 
2013-10-24 02:46:08 AM  
If the kids had guns, they would have prevented this cop gun from misfiring and injuring them by shooting the gun before it happened!
 
2013-10-24 02:47:14 AM  
So I was going to say "They broke at minimum Rule 1 and Rule 3", but it sounds like the cops did almost nothing wrong (with the possible exception of the safety thing) and the kid is just a stupid farking dumbass.
 
2013-10-24 02:48:57 AM  
What? Again?
 
2013-10-24 02:51:01 AM  

Fark It: Oh wow, they're calling it an "accidental misfire."

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&i d= 9298860

"Police said a student approached a police motorcycle that was on display and pulled the trigger of an AR-15 rifle that was locked into a weapons mount on the side of the motorcycle. The rifle was never removed from the mounting device."

...

"Police say two boys suffered minor injuries when they were struck by metal debris that came from the bullet disintegrating as it hit a metal plate where the barrel rests against the weapons mount. According to officials, that's meant to be a fail safe measure, which worked. "

There are at least two things wrong with this.  One is that the weapon was in condition zero, and two, that the police allowed unsupervised access to a loaded firearm.  And an AR-pattern rifle already has a "fail safe," it's called a safety.

violentsalvation: Another responsible cop heard from? Clearly these cops should be held responsible, prosecuted even. I'm sick of this shiat happening.

NOT A STATISTIC

Thanks for the TF.


If I remember correctly, because it's been a few years since I had a M-16, rack safe is the most acceptable condition for weapons handling.  Weapon cleared, clip removed, bolt forward, selector switch to semi.  Pull the trigger and nothing will happen, because there's no bullet, no clip, and the bolt is forward, therefore no ammo can be fed to the barrel.
 
2013-10-24 02:58:18 AM  
See, this is the whole problem with the NRAs "Guns don't kill people, people do" campaign.  Stupid people don't think they're stupid, so they think that "this gun won't kill people, only if it was in the hands of a killer or a stupid person", and they commence to handling it stupidly, and then guess what? The gun kills somebody.

As long as gun proponents keep singing the mantra "Guns don't kill people, people do", stupid people will continue to treat guns as if they are not dangerous objects, and other people, in this case children, will get hurt.
 
2013-10-24 02:58:46 AM  
Accidentally.


Un huh. Bet he shot at 'em with blanks or rat shot to get some paid leave during the investigation.
 
2013-10-24 03:00:42 AM  
www.patrol-log.com

/cuz you knew he was gonna show up in this thread sooner or later, right?
 
2013-10-24 03:03:07 AM  
According to this, it happened at a drug prevention event at the school and a student got a hold of the riffle while the police where entertaining other students.

But that does bring the question of why in the hell did the police fell the need to bring a loaded AR-15 to a school drug prevention event. Why? And who was in charge, Mahoney?
 
2013-10-24 03:08:13 AM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: /cuz you knew he was gonna show up in this thread sooner or later, right?



Only reason I opened the comments, leaving satisfied.
 
HBK
2013-10-24 03:09:32 AM  

hardinparamedic: Fark It: And an AR-pattern rifle already has a "fail safe," it's called a safety.

And if the kid had played something as simple as Counter-Strike, he knew what that was and how to operate that.

Since when have motorcycle cops carried ARs on their bikes? The ones around here only carry a side-arm.


I'd think it'd be annoying and inconvenient as hell. If the bike cop needs to go into a house for a domestic disturbance or go to the donut store, he'd have to bring his gun with them, or at least clear and lock the weapon. I'd imagine it would get annoying lugging that thing around everywhere. Especially if you have to carry a helmet too.
 
2013-10-24 03:12:56 AM  

meyerkev: it sounds like the cops did almost nothing wrong (with the possible exception of the safety thing)


I'm no gun safety expert, but leaving a loaded firearm where a child could just walk up and pull the trigger sounds a little wrong to me.
 
2013-10-24 03:13:25 AM  
The kids were not hit by the bullet... yet three of them still suffered from scratches and cuts. HOW?! Did they get so scared that the sound of gunfire alone sent them into panic, causing them to fall over, claw at each other, and then pee and crap at the same time before calming down?
 
2013-10-24 03:14:56 AM  

GreenSun: The kids were not hit by the bullet... yet three of them still suffered from scratches and cuts. HOW?! Did they get so scared that the sound of gunfire alone sent them into panic, causing them to fall over, claw at each other, and then pee and crap at the same time before calming down?


You've obviously never been to a Lady Gaga concert, then.
 
2013-10-24 03:28:20 AM  
Well they could be the Mexican kid who the police open fired on for carrying an air soft AK-47 replica to his friends house in California. It is funny how the police in California never open fired on a Guns Rights activist when they were walking around with their real guns in California.
 
2013-10-24 03:33:12 AM  

Smoking GNU: You've obviously never been to a Lady Gaga concert, then.


cdn.breitbart.com

gifrific.com

SHE'S GOT MACHINE GUN JUBBLIES!

www.filmsite.org

s.mcstatic.com
 
2013-10-24 03:33:52 AM  

The Southern Dandy: Stupid people don't think they're stupid


this is the problem with THE WORLD
 
2013-10-24 03:35:47 AM  

aesirx: The Southern Dandy: Stupid people don't think they're stupid

this is the problem with THE WORLD




Mmmmhm
 
2013-10-24 03:49:09 AM  
Responsible gun owner, isolated incident, not the time to talk about gun control, good guy with a gun bad guy with a gun. Why yes I am incapable of forming an original thought.
 
2013-10-24 03:52:23 AM  

meyerkev: So I was going to say "They broke at minimum Rule 1 and Rule 3", but it sounds like the cops did almost nothing wrong (with the possible exception of the safety thing) and the kid is just a stupid farking dumbass.


Leaving a loaded firearm unattended around elementary school kids doesn't strike you as indicative of of severe cranio-rectal impaction?
 
2013-10-24 03:53:55 AM  

baronbloodbath: If I remember correctly, because it's been a few years since I had a M-16, rack safe is the most acceptable condition for weapons handling.  Weapon cleared, clip removed, bolt forward, selector switch to semi.  Pull the trigger and nothing will happen, because there's no bullet, no clip, and the bolt is forward, therefore no ammo can be fed to the barrel.


-5/10 Too obvious.
 
2013-10-24 03:54:40 AM  
Why the fark do cops KEEP doing this shiat?
 
2013-10-24 03:58:51 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Leaving a loaded firearm unattended around elementary school kids doesn't strike you as indicative of of severe cranio-rectal impaction?


I was going to point this out but I see you've got it covered.

And anyone who thinks a safety makes a gun safe is just plain dumb. Especially around small children.
 
2013-10-24 04:11:32 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Responsible gun owner, isolated incident, not the time to talk about gun control, good guy with a gun bad guy with a gun. Why yes I am incapable of forming an original thought.


I was going to spew exactly the same retarded pro-gun talking points as you! No fair.
 
2013-10-24 04:39:26 AM  
Ok, ladies and gentlemen, as someone who is probably the most qualified expert on the subject on fark, we need to be clear on the distinction between what can be considered accidental, and what can be considered negligent when it comes to firearm discharges.

There are, to wit, a total of 4 models of firearms that constitute more than 2 digits worth of the 250 MILLION firearms in this country that can permit an accidental discharge. All four were the subject of class action lawsuits, the venerable Remington 700 being one of them. Whether the the condition was negligent on the part of the designers, especially considering the original designs were immune to the problem that caused the accident and efforts to manufacture them in a cheaper way led to the problem in 3 out of 4 of the cases that I know of are at fault, is not at question. The courts decided that. Which makes this sentiment all the easier.

This was not accidental, this was negligent. There are four rules taught to every responsible gun owner in this country. We're about to rehash Cooper's rules here, but as liberal as I may be as of late, they still are the standard. I adhere to them and I will lash bloody anybody who breaks them in my sight, whether verbally or physically--and I've biatch slapped idiots at the range in exactly the way you imagine when I utter the phrase "biatch slap." These rules are universal and ignorance is not an excuse:

1) Treat every firearm as if it is loaded at all times. If I hand you a pistol with its magazine ejected, slide open and empty chamber in plain view and you do so much as hit the slide return and do ANYTHING but keep that damn thing pointed down range, you're getting a red hand print on your face and you'll be lucky if I don't break a finger taking the damned thing back from you. This rule is non-negotiable. It is why cops can kill you just for yelling "GUN!" and get away with it. It's for your own good. Every gun is always loaded, always, even when it is empty and everybody can verify it, hell even if it's field stripped for cleaning on the table, police will shoot you anyway.

2) Never point the barrel at something you are not prepared to destroy. This is simple people, pointing a gun at somebody is reason for them to kill you. Don't be stupid. If I have to explain this point further, you're exactly the kind of person who should not be carrying a gun, ever.

3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire. This is where this jackass failed. And to add to the previous points, if you do this to me and you don't have the authority to do so to detain me, and you don't stand down after an instant, I'm going to bide my time to placate you until the instant I can disarm you, and then either permanently maim you or kill you outright. You just committed attempted murder, that you chickened out and didn't actually pull the trigger to let loose the sear does not change the fact that you did just try to murder me. I will respond in kind. You pointed the damn thing at me and you had your finger on the trigger and you didn't back down instantly after being instructed to do so. That's de facto attempted murder in my book, you established willingness, intent, and capability.

4) Know your target and what is beyond it before pulling the trigger. For those who don't know, bullets are pretty good at punching holes in things. So good in many instances that they will punch holes in MANY things before stopping. Try to make sure there isn't anything that could feel pain or have a bad farking day or for that matter cause a bad farking day for everybody around it when the round you just fired does the inevitable.

As I said, those rules are universal, they aren't negotiable, and ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking them. Unless the gun fired independent of the condition of your finger being on the trigger, of which there is less than a .0001% chance of you having in your hands, you were farking negligent and should never have access to a firearm again. This wasn't an accidental discharge, this was a negligent one, and he should be charged accordingly and be sentenced to the maximum sentence for having been a police officer during the incident.

/I'm tired of negligent gun owners.
 
2013-10-24 05:45:34 AM  
Remember, guns are dangerous, so only police officers can be trusted with guns.
 
2013-10-24 05:54:20 AM  
Wow, I don't even. The level of fail here is off any measurable scale.
 
2013-10-24 06:13:18 AM  
Three California elementary school students suffered minor injuries Wednesday when a gun mounted on a police motorcycle discharged

www.strangemilitary.com

And who brings a weapon-mounted motorcycle to an anti-drug event?
 
2013-10-24 06:18:24 AM  
"Only the police should have guns"
 
2013-10-24 06:21:26 AM  
Was the gun okay?
 
2013-10-24 06:41:59 AM  

meyerkev: So I was going to say "They broke at minimum Rule 1 and Rule 3", but it sounds like the cops did almost nothing wrong (with the possible exception of the safety thing) and the kid is just a stupid farking dumbass.


Nope. Sounds like negligence.

Look it up.
 
2013-10-24 06:46:09 AM  

Mugato: How does a gun just go off? I never understood that. I mean maybe if it was cocked an had a hair trigger but even then, I don't get it.


It doesn't.

I've been in the military, in law enforcement, and an avid shooter for most of my life.  The only actual misfire I've ever encountered was with a real AK-47 modified for only semi-auto fire to bring it in civilian legal compliance and make it "safer"(ironic).  I was on the range with the bolt locked back, empty chamber, full magazine, muzzle pointed downrange.  I released the bolt to load a round and when it slid fully forward the rifle went off.  It was a slam fire.  A mechanical defect, I found out later, forced the firing pin to contact the primer of the round with enough force to set it off when the bolt slammed forward.  Scared the shiat out of me.

That was an actual misfire though.  Even that weapon required the bolt to slam forward from a fully retracted position to encounter the defect with enough force to fire a round, a very narrow and rare range of circumstances.  As long as you were following the rules it was perfectly safe.

So, again, it doesn't.
 
2013-10-24 07:00:07 AM  
First off, journalists need to stop using the word misfire, there is no such thing, guns don't go off by themselves, improper handling is always the cause of so-called "misfires". Second, why does this article not have the full story when every other news source seems to? People need to spend a few minutes checking to see if the article they're submitting is the most informative one.
 
2013-10-24 07:16:31 AM  

ReapTheChaos: First off, journalists need to stop using the word misfire, there is no such thing, guns don't go off by themselves, improper handling is always the cause of so-called "misfires". Second, why does this article not have the full story when every other news source seems to? People need to spend a few minutes checking to see if the article they're submitting is the most informative one.


Well, no.  Guns *CAN* misfire.  They are mechanical devices, and mechanical devices can and do fail.  I've had a Colt 1911 go cyclic on me.  That is the sort of thing I would call a "misfire".  We tell people to not rely on a safety, because safeties can and do fail at times.

Having said that, I mostly agree with what you're saying here.  Improper handling is the cause of probably well over 95% of these sorts of incidents where the gun just "goes off".
 
2013-10-24 07:18:24 AM  

ReapTheChaos: First off, journalists need to stop using the word misfire, there is no such thing, guns don't go off by themselves, improper handling is always the cause of so-called "misfires". Second, why does this article not have the full story when every other news source seems to? People need to spend a few minutes checking to see if the article they're submitting is the most informative one.


See "cook off".
 
2013-10-24 07:23:42 AM  
We should have lots of guns in schools to keep the kids safe.
 
2013-10-24 07:24:19 AM  

iq_in_binary: 3) Keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.


I've come to prefer "Keep your booger-hook off the bang-switch", because it sticks in your head.  Sure, it's humorous, but that's why you remember it. I've taught that to a few new shooters, and of all the rules, that seems to be the one they remember the best.  I've caught new shooters accidentally muzzling people and doing some other stupid things, but I've never seen one finger the trigger after I told them to "Keep your booger-hook off the bang-switch".
 
2013-10-24 07:29:04 AM  

Bill_Wick's_Friend: [www.patrol-log.com image 474x522]

/cuz you knew he was gonna show up in this thread sooner or later, right?


Well, I have nothing to add, move along.
 
2013-10-24 07:32:45 AM  

Jumpedthefark: ReapTheChaos: First off, journalists need to stop using the word misfire, there is no such thing, guns don't go off by themselves, improper handling is always the cause of so-called "misfires". Second, why does this article not have the full story when every other news source seems to? People need to spend a few minutes checking to see if the article they're submitting is the most informative one.

See "cook off".




That's filed under mishandling.
You've got to run most guns to an extreme before the chamber is hot enough to detonate a round. For an ar that's usually in the 300+ "Melting hand-guard" realm (and they cool pretty fast, so that's a lot of shooting in a short period).

Accidental discharge usually falls on the operator. There are mechanical problems that can cause it, like with the Remington 700 safety, but that too can be averted by safe handling practices.

/Like, say, not carrying live ammunition into a school.
/not placing live ammunition inside a demonstration weapon.
/not leaving loaded weapons unattended and within arms reach of a child.
/if you hand someone a blazingly hot loaded rifle, that's trouble waiting to happen.
 
2013-10-24 07:40:10 AM  
This seems to be another case of a member of the 95% giving the good 5% of the cops a bad name.  It was the responsibility of the officer to ensure that the weapon was safe to have around children and he failed in his responsibility.  What now remains to be seen is how police management disciplines the idiot.  do they sweep it under the rug or is he fired for being an idiot and hazarding children?  I hope the latter as he has quite visibly demonstrated that he cannot be trusted to do his job.  I also hope that the parents of the injured children sue the city/police department as nothing gets a mayor's attention like having to give money out to people as well as bad publicity during election time.
 
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