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(io9)   Astronomers discover galaxy far, far away   (io9.com) divider line 74
    More: Cool, galaxies, astronomers, light-years away, solar masses, Hubble Space Telescope, redshifts, Milky Way  
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3105 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Oct 2013 at 9:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



74 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-24 05:42:36 AM  

SevenizGud: sgnilward: if light speed is the fastest speed there is, how can a galaxy outpace it?

Light is the fastest thing through space. But space does not travel through space when it expands. Space can expand faster than light can travel through space. As a result, in the end, nobody will be able to see anything because it will be too far away.


That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?
 
2013-10-24 06:50:54 AM  

Kerr Avon: That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?


I keep promising myself I'll write a book (or blog or whatever) called Physics for Smarties -- all the science for people smart enough to handle the concepts, but expressed in ways that make sense to someone with a humanities or arts education. Would there be a market for that?
 
2013-10-24 07:02:25 AM  

simplicimus: Sentences like this drive me crazy: "It's less than 2% the mass of the Milky Way, but it's producing stars at a rate that's confounding scientists. " No, it was producing stars 13.1 billion years ago. We have no idea what's happening there now.


I wonder if it made the Sun.
 
2013-10-24 07:32:38 AM  
so we say the universe is X billion years old because we found something that's X light years away, wouldn't it have gotten MUCH farther away in the billions of years it took for that light to reach us?  wouldn't that make the universe quite a bit older?
 
2013-10-24 07:44:00 AM  
It's less than 2% the mass of the Milky Way, but it's producing stars at a rate that's confounding scientists.

...

It has a mass of one billion suns, which is 40 to 50 billion times less than the Milky Way.


Well, 40-50 billion times less is less than 2%. Nice job, article.
 
2013-10-24 07:48:24 AM  

Dibikad: Oh, one day we will get to these astoundingly distant galaxies. We just need to get around to building one of these


We already did.

upload.wikimedia.org

Welcome to the future.
 
2013-10-24 09:01:54 AM  

sxacho: It's less than 2% the mass of the Milky Way, but it's producing stars at a rate that's confounding scientists.

...

It has a mass of one billion suns, which is 40 to 50 billion times less than the Milky Way.

Well, 40-50 billion times less is less than 2%. Nice job, article.


If the mods insist on greening links to "science" stories on io9, that's the quality of article you're going to get.
 
2013-10-24 09:46:40 AM  

simplicimus: Sentences like this drive me crazy: "It's less than 2% the mass of the Milky Way, but it's producing stars at a rate that's confounding scientists. " No, it was producing stars 13.1 billion years ago. We have no idea what's happening there now.


I thought the same thing when I read it.
 
2013-10-24 10:04:58 AM  

Ishkur: sgnilward: if light speed is the fastest speed there is, how can a galaxy outpace it?

Okay, first of all it's important to understand what the Universe is doing when it expands. I explained this in the other thread:

Think of it like this: The Big Bang wasn't an explosion but rather an expansion of space-time. The galaxies aren't moving away from each other or from some central point. Rather, the space between the galaxies is filling up with more space. Because of this, the things furthest away from us are moving away faster than things closer to us. Basically, the more space that exists between us and a distant object, the more space there is that can fill up, so the gap gets bigger faster.

Moreover, wherever you are in the Universe, you will observe this exact same phenomenon, so it looks like you are the center with everything moving away from you, and the farthest things moving away the fastest.

Here's a 2D example to show what that looks like:



In other words, there is no center of the Universe because everywhere is the center.

Secondly, you must understand that there is no such thing as any objective standard time. Time is relative and predicated on gravity and velocity. Things move at different rates in relation to other things, so while we say that the Universe is 13.72 billion years old, that is a metric that only means something to us, from our vantage point. That is not a Universal Standard Time index. The Universe doesn't have one. So light only travels at light-speed in relation to things not traveling at light-speed. Things behave very strange at relativistic speeds. If you were traveling at the speed of light, you could traverse the entire Universe in about 56 years. But the Universe itself will age 13.72 billion years during that time. And it will be much bigger.

If you don't understand any of this, don't worry about it. The Universe is a very weird place. It's not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine.


I think an expansion of space-time just occurred inside my head creating what is known as the "mind blown" effect.
 
2013-10-24 10:13:19 AM  

czetie: Kerr Avon: That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?

I keep promising myself I'll write a book (or blog or whatever) called Physics for Smarties -- all the science for people smart enough to handle the concepts, but expressed in ways that make sense to someone with a humanities or arts education. Would there be a market for that?


A Brief History of Time seemed to work well based on the same premise, even for someone with no degree in anything at all.
 
2013-10-24 10:14:59 AM  

czetie: Kerr Avon: That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?

I keep promising myself I'll write a book (or blog or whatever) called Physics for Smarties -- all the science for people smart enough to handle the concepts, but expressed in ways that make sense to someone with a humanities or arts education. Would there be a market for that?


Color me in!
 
2013-10-24 11:48:46 AM  

simplicimus: To confirm its distance, which is now at a jaw-dropping 30 billion light-years away, astronomers took a look at its redshift value - a wavelength signature indicating the rate at which light-emitting objects are moving away from us."


yeah I was like

i521.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-24 12:08:47 PM  

Kerr Avon: SevenizGud: sgnilward: if light speed is the fastest speed there is, how can a galaxy outpace it?

Light is the fastest thing through space. But space does not travel through space when it expands. Space can expand faster than light can travel through space. As a result, in the end, nobody will be able to see anything because it will be too far away.

That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?


Much recommended, a very good read with minimal reliance on math.  There are a few equations but the concepts are simply yet brilliantly explained.

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-10-24 12:21:34 PM  
So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends? Or does it?
 
2013-10-24 01:19:41 PM  

Kerr Avon: czetie: Kerr Avon: That makes sense, thanks. Other than Wiki, any recommendations of places to look for similar information for someone that can handle the concepts, but who's O Level maths isn't up to the squiggly bits?

I keep promising myself I'll write a book (or blog or whatever) called Physics for Smarties -- all the science for people smart enough to handle the concepts, but expressed in ways that make sense to someone with a humanities or arts education. Would there be a market for that?

A Brief History of Time seemed to work well based on the same premise, even for someone with no degree in anything at all.


Yes it did, but I'd like to go further. In one text, I'd like to tackle relativity, quantum mechanics, and thermodynamics -- the often-neglected third leg of physics. I'd also like to weave in lots of analogies to music and art (e.g. how the basis of quantum uncertainly is like a Pointilistic painting: stand back and you see regions of continuous color, look too closely and all you see are individual discretely colored dots).

And all this from somebody who has no name or reputation to speak of in the scientific world. Not that I'm overambitious or anything, you understand.
 
2013-10-24 01:46:40 PM  

simplicimus: So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends? Or does it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip

are the current leading candidates.
 
2013-10-24 01:55:04 PM  

BKITU: simplicimus: So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends? Or does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip

are the current leading candidates.


I like the Big Rip. Sets the stage for another Big Bang, maybe?
 
2013-10-24 01:55:31 PM  

simplicimus: So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends? Or does it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COlXVNjklVM
 
2013-10-24 01:58:02 PM  

simplicimus: BKITU: simplicimus: So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends? Or does it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip

are the current leading candidates.

I like the Big Rip. Sets the stage for another Big Bang, maybe?


As best we can tell, there's always a stage set for another Big Bang. Universes just happen, sometimes.
 
2013-10-24 02:31:53 PM  

simplicimus: Sentences like this drive me crazy: "It's less than 2% the mass of the Milky Way, but it's producing stars at a rate that's confounding scientists. " No, it was producing stars 13.1 billion years ago. We have no idea what's happening there now.


Verb tenses don't even get close to light speed. In the local "now" of that galaxy are probably a six-pack of brown dwarf stars. Who's got marshmallows?
 
2013-10-24 03:10:18 PM  

Frozboz: There are some days I think I'm smart, then there are others like today when I read threads like this and can't even start to comprehend the basics of this stuff.


Yeah, this is pretty much my experience every time I read something dealing with cosmology. The worst part is that I occasionally experience moments of clarity where it makes sense. It doesn't last very long and may actually be hallucinations.
 
2013-10-24 10:47:26 PM  

simplicimus: So, what's the current thinking on how the universe ends?



He fixes her cable, then right after he leaves, the pizza guy delivers a pepperoni-and-cheese and she gives him a $5 tip.  Then she watches some crap on SyFy while the credits roll.
 
2013-10-24 11:11:15 PM  

doglover: Shostie: doglover: But seriously, why is Europa not teeming with probes already?

ALL THESE WORLDS
ARE YOURS EXCEPT
EUROPA
ATTEMPT NO
LANDING THERE

fark you, I'm not just attempting. We're colonizing that biatch. Soon as we cure up to 500 rads daily radiation dose or so..


Lol. Was just about to post the same "fark you!" message. What are you gonna do, huh? Print messages on my screen some more? Pfft...
 
2013-10-24 11:15:43 PM  

Ishkur: sgnilward: if light speed is the fastest speed there is, how can a galaxy outpace it?

Okay, first of all it's important to understand what the Universe is doing when it expands. I explained this in the other thread:

Think of it like this: The Big Bang wasn't an explosion but rather an expansion of space-time. The galaxies aren't moving away from each other or from some central point. Rather, the space between the galaxies is filling up with more space. Because of this, the things furthest away from us are moving away faster than things closer to us. Basically, the more space that exists between us and a distant object, the more space there is that can fill up, so the gap gets bigger faster.

Moreover, wherever you are in the Universe, you will observe this exact same phenomenon, so it looks like you are the center with everything moving away from you, and the farthest things moving away the fastest.

Here's a 2D example to show what that looks like:



In other words, there is no center of the Universe because everywhere is the center.

Secondly, you must understand that there is no such thing as any objective standard time. Time is relative and predicated on gravity and velocity. Things move at different rates in relation to other things, so while we say that the Universe is 13.72 billion years old, that is a metric that only means something to us, from our vantage point. That is not a Universal Standard Time index. The Universe doesn't have one. So light only travels at light-speed in relation to things not traveling at light-speed. Things behave very strange at relativistic speeds. If you were traveling at the speed of light, you could traverse the entire Universe in about 56 years. But the Universe itself will age 13.72 billion years during that time. And it will be much bigger.

If you don't understand any of this, don't worry about it. The Universe is a very weird place. It's not only stranger than we imagine, it's stranger than we CAN imagine.


I don't know, I can imagine quite a bit.
 
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