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(NBC News)   Score one for the masses: Bank of America found guilty of fraud over Countrywide debacle, could face penalty of over $800 million   (nbcnews.com) divider line 89
    More: Cool, Bank of America, Countrywide, found guilty, federal jury, Enforcement Acts, Bharara, savings and loans  
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976 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Oct 2013 at 11:17 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-23 05:45:23 PM
Grumpy cat is pleased.
 
2013-10-23 05:49:46 PM
www.biography.com
 
2013-10-23 05:51:07 PM
not a penny of which customers will see.
 
2013-10-23 05:57:11 PM

ManateeGag: not a penny of which customers will see.


Honestly, if you're still a customer of Bank of America, you're too stupid to get a settlement- you'd probably accidentally swallow the check.
 
2013-10-23 06:00:57 PM
I'm thinking this is the equivalent penalty of a speeding ticket to a normal person.
 
2013-10-23 06:05:28 PM

what_now: ManateeGag: not a penny of which customers will see.

Honestly, if you're still a customer of Bank of America, you're too stupid to get a settlement- you'd probably accidentally swallow the check.


Pretty much this. I know a guy who is still a customer of BoA. Complains about their customer service all the time. Still hasn't switched.
 
2013-10-23 06:11:13 PM
Bank of America's 3rd quarter profit (not revenue) was $2.5 billion.

A penalty of $800 million would only mean that their profit would've been 1.7 billion if applied to Q3. And the kicker is, Bank of America would probably write that $800 penalty off on its taxes anyway.
 
2013-10-23 06:13:09 PM

ManateeGag: not a penny of which customers will see.


Oh, they'll see it. Just not in the "Here's you refund" sort of way. It'll be more in the "Here's our increased fee schedule" sort of way.

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm thinking this is the equivalent penalty of a speeding ticket to a normal person.


I'm thinking this will end up sort of like the "Cops find X pounds of pot" meme.
 
2013-10-23 06:21:37 PM
it will be cool when there are criminal convictions, otherwise it is business as usual.
 
2013-10-23 07:16:40 PM
Credit union. Find one. Use one.
 
2013-10-23 07:23:50 PM
Shiat, BoA can find $800million in their couch cushions.
 
2013-10-23 08:30:08 PM
Wake me up when someone goes to jail. Destroying peoples lives shouldn't carry a 'fine' vs jail time just because you did it from an executive office.
 
2013-10-23 08:32:08 PM
Oh, no. $800 million. Whatever shall they do?
 
2013-10-23 08:33:44 PM

RexTalionis: Bank of America's 3rd quarter profit (not revenue) was $2.5 billion.

A penalty of $800 million would only mean that their profit would've been 1.7 billion if applied to Q3. And the kicker is, Bank of America would probably write that $800 penalty off on its taxes anyway.


Also this! its not ok to make these types of things into business decisions where someone can sit at their desk and decide the profit will exceed the fine so fark it, go for it. Make those folks decide if going to jail is worth making a bunch of stock holders more money and this shiat will get lots better
 
2013-10-23 08:43:51 PM
How about yanking their corporate charter, seizing their assets and auctioning them off?  That's how you solve these problems.

/and send a message to the next group of spunkwad businesspeople thinking about farking us over
//jail time isn't good enough... they'll just set up one guy for the fall and keep doing business as usual
 
2013-10-23 08:47:01 PM
I predict that Bunch of Assholes will come up with some sort of new fee to get back that 800 million.
 
2013-10-23 08:48:53 PM

gameshowhost: How about yanking their corporate charter, seizing their assets and auctioning them off?  That's how you solve these problems.

/and send a message to the next group of spunkwad businesspeople thinking about farking us over
//jail time isn't good enough... they'll just set up one guy for the fall and keep doing business as usual


Well in this case the company getting fined didn't actually do it and the gov pretty much made JP Morgan buy them so dissolving JP Morgan for doing what the gov asked would kind of be bullshiat. I'm all for sending the folks who made these decisions to the pokey though
 
2013-10-23 08:50:49 PM
Blah replace jpm with bank of america. Getting sleepies
 
2013-10-23 08:53:27 PM
I remember when I said that BofA bought the largest lawsuit in the world and their shareholders mocked me.

$40 billion and counting.

Please, proceed.
 
2013-10-23 08:58:24 PM

SirVagTheTighty: gameshowhost: How about yanking their corporate charter, seizing their assets and auctioning them off?  That's how you solve these problems.

/and send a message to the next group of spunkwad businesspeople thinking about farking us over
//jail time isn't good enough... they'll just set up one guy for the fall and keep doing business as usual

Well in this case the company getting fined didn't actually do it and the gov pretty much made JP Morgan buy them so dissolving JP Morgan for doing what the gov asked would kind of be bullshiat. I'm all for sending the folks who made these decisions to the pokey though


Should have been vaporized before JPM had a shot at it... banking industry is already way too concentrated.

A symptom was treated. Meh.
 
2013-10-23 08:59:56 PM
er BoA

whatever. bah.
 
2013-10-23 09:01:03 PM

SirVagTheTighty: RexTalionis: Bank of America's 3rd quarter profit (not revenue) was $2.5 billion.

A penalty of $800 million would only mean that their profit would've been 1.7 billion if applied to Q3. And the kicker is, Bank of America would probably write that $800 penalty off on its taxes anyway.

Also this! its not ok to make these types of things into business decisions where someone can sit at their desk and decide the profit will exceed the fine so fark it, go for it. Make those folks decide if going to jail is worth making a bunch of stock holders more money and this shiat will get lots better


They've already paid out $40 billion on their $4.1 billion purchase of this sh*t company. Total exposure? Could be another $40 billion if these leads to more lawsuits and Rakoff really nails them with a massive fine as he has in the past.

Guess who's really happy?

i39.tinypic.com

Good old Tangelo. He got paid off, paid a stupidly low fine and moved on to retirement.
 
2013-10-23 09:10:33 PM
Cost of doing business!
 
2013-10-23 09:13:21 PM
So they have gotten away with it almost but not quite completely scot free.
 
2013-10-23 09:20:52 PM

NewportBarGuy: SirVagTheTighty: RexTalionis: Bank of America's 3rd quarter profit (not revenue) was $2.5 billion.

A penalty of $800 million would only mean that their profit would've been 1.7 billion if applied to Q3. And the kicker is, Bank of America would probably write that $800 penalty off on its taxes anyway.

Also this! its not ok to make these types of things into business decisions where someone can sit at their desk and decide the profit will exceed the fine so fark it, go for it. Make those folks decide if going to jail is worth making a bunch of stock holders more money and this shiat will get lots better

They've already paid out $40 billion on their $4.1 billion purchase of this sh*t company. Total exposure? Could be another $40 billion if these leads to more lawsuits and Rakoff really nails them with a massive fine as he has in the past.

Guess who's really happy?



Good old Tangelo. He got paid off, paid a stupidly low fine and moved on to retirement.


I think a pretty good portion of that 40 billion is actually from the foreclosure settlement. That shiat was squarely on them and had nothing to do with countrywide. The robo signing etc.
 
2013-10-23 09:39:21 PM
Well, I'm sure the ninety days in jail and a few hundred hours of community service will SURE show those Bank of America execs the error of their ways.

Justice is served*!

*with a few million in gratuities courtesy of Bank of America.
 
2013-10-23 09:43:09 PM

SirVagTheTighty: I think a pretty good portion of that 40 billion is actually from the foreclosure settlement. That shiat was squarely on them and had nothing to do with countrywide. The robo signing etc.


Check this out:

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2011/06/29/bank-of-america-countrywide-wo rs t-deal-in-history/
 
2013-10-23 10:01:30 PM
Let me know when one of these Banksters does serious time.
 
2013-10-23 10:12:10 PM
You're off by 2 orders of magnitude.
 
2013-10-23 10:19:03 PM
*jumpyoufarkers.jpg*
 
2013-10-23 10:21:52 PM
Pennies to them
 
2013-10-23 11:30:01 PM
unless many of the top executives are in prison right now, for life..... F*CK OFF and quit pretending that a small fine will do anything to stop them again
 
2013-10-23 11:34:56 PM
Fines have simply become the cost of doing business. Until the execs spend some time inside a cell, nothing will change.
 
2013-10-23 11:45:26 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Fines have simply become the cost of doing business. Until the execs spend some time inside a cell, nothing will change.


Tangelo stopped buy Newport for the Jazz Fest the year this all happened. Why do I know? I developed pictures of him smiling like an asshole.
 
2013-10-23 11:47:03 PM
How the fark did Fannie and Freddie not realize that countrywide was selling them all these defective loans? Was the due diligence that bad? Were they paying any attention at all?

It seems Fannie and Freddie were even worse run that conservatives claimed they were back when the WSJ op Ed page was railing against them 10 years ago.
 
2013-10-23 11:50:30 PM

RexTalionis: Bank of America's 3rd quarter profit (not revenue) was $2.5 billion.

A penalty of $800 million would only mean that their profit would've been 1.7 billion if applied to Q3. And the kicker is, Bank of America would probably write that $800 penalty off on its taxes anyway.


Depends on the nature of the fines. If they are punitive, they are not deductible. If they are remedial, they can be. However, this appears to be a fine paid to a government agency for violating a law. That pretty much seals the fine as a non deductible expense.
 
2013-10-23 11:51:16 PM
imageshack.us
 
2013-10-23 11:59:17 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: How the fark did Fannie and Freddie not realize that countrywide was selling them all these defective loans? Was the due diligence that bad? Were they paying any attention at all?

It seems Fannie and Freddie were even worse run that conservatives claimed they were back when the WSJ op Ed page was railing against them 10 years ago.


They were being killed by the market makers. They threw caution to the wind when the Free Market was kicking their ass and entered the open market without reserve.

If they ignored the Free Market? They would have done quite well.
 
2013-10-24 12:02:31 AM
800 million, with an "m". Chump change to a big bank. They might as well be fined a penny. To top it all off, not one of those bloodsuckers will be going to prison.
 
2013-10-24 12:05:00 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: How the fark did Fannie and Freddie not realize that countrywide was selling them all these defective loans? Was the due diligence that bad? Were they paying any attention at all?

It seems Fannie and Freddie were even worse run that conservatives claimed they were back when the WSJ op Ed page was railing against them 10 years ago.


This is an insanely stupid comment from a guy that claims to have an MBA, CFA and CPA.  Right, it's totes Fannie and Freddie's fault they didn't catch the banks' systematic fraud that the banks didn't commit anyway.
 
2013-10-24 12:08:33 AM
This seems seriously strange:
Gov: BofA, Countrywide is going broke, you have to buy them.
Gov: Since you bought Countrywide, and they did some shady things before you bought them, you have to pay fines / compensation for what they did.
 
2013-10-24 12:08:38 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: How the fark did Fannie and Freddie not realize that countrywide was selling them all these defective loans? Was the due diligence that bad? Were they paying any attention at all?


So that's how you're spinning this? Fannie and Freddie weren't providing due diligence when they didn't automatically assume Countrywide was deliberately handing out defective mortgages?
Was Countrywide expected to provide any due diligence in your little scenario, or are you fine with the way they loosened loan quality safeguards and encouraged officers to increase sales and volume?
 
2013-10-24 12:11:44 AM

cameroncrazy1984: what_now: ManateeGag: not a penny of which customers will see.

Honestly, if you're still a customer of Bank of America, you're too stupid to get a settlement- you'd probably accidentally swallow the check.

Pretty much this. I know a guy who is still a customer of BoA. Complains about their customer service all the time. Still hasn't switched.


Their banking and mortgage things are still different beasts under the same banner. I have a BoA mortgage and I patently do not want it. I didn't even buy it there. I got an FHA loan through a local service, which then sold it to GMAC, which then pretty immediately (I don't think I even sent GMAC two checks) got sold to BoA. It's the only BoA product I have because their products suck balls. But my mortgage terms are decent, and I don't exactly have the credit rating right now to try moving to a new place, so BoA is the place where my mortgage lives while I pay it down.

and when I say "I patently do not want it", I mean "I got one of the settlement checks because they tried to foreclose on my house and they're damned lucky I can't yell someone to death". I'm stuck there right now because I really don't have a choice, but I do dream of a future where I have robust enough finances/credit to take my business elsewhere.

Anyway, people with mortgages there may not be able to do anything about it and probably didn't even start out there. Regular banking customers, on the other hand, need to be beaten with a clue by four.

/also, isn't the settlement going to Fannie and Freddie to pay back their losses? Why would homeowners ever see this?
//I might not know enough about all this
 
2013-10-24 12:23:18 AM

RedBoatBill: This seems seriously strange:
Gov: BofA, Countrywide is going broke, you have to buy them.
Gov: Since you bought Countrywide, and they did some shady things before you bought them, you have to pay fines / compensation for what they did.


How could Countrywide pay if they went broke? Since BofA bought them, BofA could now pay the fine. TaDA
 
2013-10-24 12:38:34 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: How the fark did Fannie and Freddie not realize that countrywide was selling them all these defective loans? Was the due diligence that bad? Were they paying any attention at all?

It seems Fannie and Freddie were even worse run that conservatives claimed they were back when the WSJ op Ed page was railing against them 10 years ago.


The Execs were interesting in maxing their compensation - that's pretty much the long and short of it (like many others we know).  The actions are ongoing:   http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/30/us-sec-freddiemac-executive s -idUSBRE92S0G620130330   They had a board and stockholders to make happy (the big exposures to shiat paid in the short run - but was not what they'd been charged with doing).

F&F, as Kyle Bass asked, rhetorically, during his presentation to the FCIC investigation, "Why should organizations created by by Congress, have to lobby Congress?"  Why, indeed?  Biggest political contributors to Congress Critters $200 million to over 300 over a single decade (think, slush fund).
 
2013-10-24 01:05:24 AM

Shostie: Oh, no. $800 million. Whatever shall they do?


They've been found liable for fraud, this opens the gates them being sued by individuals or groups for same. While this particular fine itself may not be much, given they now have no ability to claim they didn't engage in fraud, they could end up owing lots of people lots of money very quickly.
 
2013-10-24 01:16:22 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Depends on the nature of the fines. If they are punitive, they are not deductible. If they are remedial, they can be. However, this appears to be a fine paid to a government agency for violating a law. That pretty much seals the fine as a non deductible expense.


So the company makes, let's say, $5 billion in revenue abusing the law. 4-5 years later same company is asked to pay a fine of $800 million (16% of profits) if a court decides so. So instead of a clean 5 they have to write up 'only' 4.2 as profit - and this is supposed to discourage illegal behavior?

/ Like penalizing bank robbers a percentage of their take
 
2013-10-24 06:40:12 AM
Whoopee.
 
2013-10-24 06:54:44 AM

gameshowhost: How about yanking their corporate charter, seizing their assets and auctioning them off?  That's how you solve these problems.

/and send a message to the next group of spunkwad businesspeople thinking about farking us over
//jail time isn't good enough... they'll just set up one guy for the fall and keep doing business as usual


They did.  Who exactly do you think we elect into the positions responsible for investigating and prosecuting these guys?
 
2013-10-24 07:06:30 AM
They were paid off by the government to absorb the Countrywide mess. This is all part of the theater.
 
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