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(The Week)   Social Security, Medicare, and Medicare Part D all had terrible rollouts just like Obamacare, which explains why all Americans reflexively hate these programs and want them to be completely abolished   (theweek.com) divider line 52
    More: Amusing, social security, Medicare, obamacare, President Woodrow Wilson, information need, Peace Corps, social insurances, Civil Rights Act  
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581 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Oct 2013 at 12:46 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-23 12:48:23 PM
Webfrackbongo masterbangbus.
 
2013-10-23 12:48:32 PM
Medicare part D was an atrocity, a gift to pharma, written by pharma, and passed by lackeys in congress who later got million dollar pharma lobbying jobs afterward. You know, democracy.
 
2013-10-23 12:49:12 PM
You know who else had terrible rollouts? Dan Marino.
 
2013-10-23 12:49:21 PM
Yeah but this is happening in the age of the internet and 24/7 media, which automatically makes it the worst thing that has ever happened in history.
 
2013-10-23 12:51:07 PM
Here comes the social security whaaaargarble
 
2013-10-23 12:51:26 PM
Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous. We'll see if that remains the case now that the shutdown is over and we see if and how the problems are resolved..
 
2013-10-23 12:52:15 PM

coeyagi: Webfrackbongo masterbangbus.


You may be having a stroke.  You should sit back from the keyboard and consider calling emergency services.
 
2013-10-23 12:52:36 PM

rga184: Medicare part D was an atrocity, a gift to pharma, written by pharma, and passed by lackeys in congress who later got million dollar pharma lobbying jobs afterward. You know, democracy.


If the GOP were serious about cutting spending, they would let Medicare at least bargain for the discounts everyone else gets.

They won't, and therefore, they aren't.  They don't give a rat's ass about the budget.  Their only interest is in hamstringing Obama.
 
2013-10-23 12:53:09 PM

rga184: and passed by lackeys in congress who later got million dollar pharma lobbying jobs afterward.


And then after its passage the new Democratically controlled House did not throw a hissy fit and shutdown the government. Instead they wrote a bill to allow the government to negotiate drug prices, which would have saved us billions. This bill was then filibustered by the Senate GOP. Because nobody actually cares about the deficit.

How Republicans Are Motherfarkers Where Democrats Are Not:
 
2013-10-23 12:55:09 PM
FTFA:  Some Southern cities were left without any participating hospitals because the Medicare law required hospitals to comply with the new Civil Rights Act, yet many in the South remained segregated.

That's so sad, that politicians in the south would work to deny people access to healthcare due to their backward social beliefs.  Thank goodness it's 2013 and that would never happen today!
 
2013-10-23 12:56:51 PM

Lord_Baull: You know who else had terrible rollouts? Dan Marino.


Someone - I think it was Montana - joked at the Pro Bowl one year that Marino and Kosar could run a 40-yard dash against each other, and they could time it with a calendar.
 
2013-10-23 12:58:58 PM
Yes, there is a signup problem. The website is hosed on a lot of levels. But you know what? There's a gold-level plan with health, dental, and vision for less than $350 a month (and that's assuming no tax credits). That is better than anything I have ever qualified for on my own. Fix the damned website because the rest of the ACA is working great.
 
2013-10-23 01:04:53 PM

Lord_Baull: You know who else had terrible rollouts? Dan Marino.


Obamafanafofana is a sekrit Dolphins fan?
 
2013-10-23 01:05:36 PM

timswar: Lord_Baull: You know who else had terrible rollouts? Dan Marino.

Obamafanafofana is a sekrit Dolphins fan?



Yes. Study it out.
 
2013-10-23 01:09:38 PM

Lord_Baull: timswar: Lord_Baull: You know who else had terrible rollouts? Dan Marino.

Obamafanafofana is a sekrit Dolphins fan?


Yes. Study it out.


I just did, near as I can figure the whole ACA is just a cover to Obamarama can use federal taxpayer maker money to pay for gender reassignment for place kickers.
 
2013-10-23 01:16:01 PM
Im chuckling...but so true...
 
2013-10-23 01:29:27 PM
These roll outs have always been rough. When the cavemen first introduced the wheel it was a flop, fire -- flop, tools to sharpen sticks - never thought it would work.
 
2013-10-23 01:29:33 PM
You know who else got rolled out during the implementation of Social Security?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-10-23 01:30:46 PM
You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.
 
2013-10-23 01:32:51 PM
shirtoid.com
 
2013-10-23 01:33:42 PM
Everyone loves number 5!
 
2013-10-23 01:33:57 PM

jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.


They ARE optional.
 
2013-10-23 01:38:02 PM
That's a riot:  Obamacare is just like the income tax.

Obamacare isn't going to fail because too few people enroll.  It's going to fail because the only people who enroll are those that are desperate to get insurance.  Plus an insufficient handful of low-income healthy people whose inflated premiums are propped up with taxpayer subsidies.

I.e., death spiral.

We're just seeing it play out in a particularly dramatic fashion because, as of now, the numbers are so pathetically low that we can actually examine the people who are enrolling in the program in real time.  But, again, the fundamental problems aren't that you can't fix the website (though if they take too long, that can have consequences that will lead to fatal problems).  The problem is that Obamacare is a poorly designed Ponzi scheme.

But the compassionate thing to do, I guess (per McConnell and his ilk, plus every Dem on the Hill) is to allow (compel, really) a bunch of needy people to sign onto a program that will fail, miserably and catastrophically, in the relatively near future, while curtailing market reforms that might allow more people to be insured on the private market in a stable and fiscally-responsible way.
 
2013-10-23 01:40:24 PM

Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous.


You know that the second sentence means you don't get to use the first word in your first sentence, right?
 
2013-10-23 01:42:12 PM
When the Federal Wage and Hour Act of 1938 took effect 75 years ago almost to the day, manual labor employers throughout the South, e.g., tobacco houses and sawmills, laid off thousands of workers, mostly black, because the employers didn't want to adapt to its terms.

But things are so much different now ...
 
2013-10-23 01:44:56 PM
More than 700,000 eligible seniors initially refused to sign up because they mistakenly believed it meant giving up Social Security.

Gee, I wonder where they happened to get that kind of idea?
 
2013-10-23 01:49:23 PM

Garet Garrett: But the compassionate thing to do, I guess (per McConnell and his ilk, plus every Dem on the Hill) is to allow (compel, really) a bunch of needy people to sign onto a program that will fail, miserably and catastrophically, in the relatively near future, while curtailing market reforms that might allow more people to be insured on the private market in a stable and fiscally-responsible way.


What's cute is that you believe, in the face of all other evidence, that Obamacare will still fail.
 
2013-10-23 01:51:48 PM

Garet Garrett: while curtailing market reforms that might allow more people to be insured on the private market in a stable and fiscally-responsible way.


Please, elaborate.
 
2013-10-23 02:09:12 PM

Garet Garrett: Obamacare isn't going to fail because too few people enroll. It's going to fail because the only people who enroll are those that are desperate to get insurance. Plus an insufficient handful of low-income healthy people whose inflated premiums are propped up with taxpayer subsidies.


We'll find out in a couple of months whether your prediction is right, but frankly, I'm not sure I would bet on your position:

kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com

theincidentaleconomist.com

/images hotlinked to reports and surveys charts are drawn from
 
2013-10-23 02:13:01 PM

Garet Garrett: Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous.

You know that the second sentence means you don't get to use the first word in your first sentence, right?


You also can't claim that support for the law is falling due to the botched rollout.
 
2013-10-23 02:21:05 PM

cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.


I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?
 
2013-10-23 02:23:10 PM

jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.

I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?


You can be exempt from taxes as soon as you relinquish your US citizenship and leave the country.
 
2013-10-23 02:31:42 PM

machodonkeywrestler: jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.

I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?

You can be exempt from taxes as soon as you relinquish your US citizenship and leave the country.


I could kill myself too. Everything's optional then.

But this is how it always goes.

"Everyone loves these programs."

"I don't."

"Then leave the country, you ingrate!"
 
2013-10-23 02:32:15 PM

jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.

I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?


Oh, I thought you meant participation. But sure, go with the argument that you can make taxes optional, I'm sure that'll go over well when people stop paying for the stuff you like.
 
2013-10-23 02:45:30 PM

jigger: machodonkeywrestler: jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.

I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?

You can be exempt from taxes as soon as you relinquish your US citizenship and leave the country.

I could kill myself too. Everything's optional then.

But this is how it always goes.

"Everyone loves these programs."

"I don't."

"Then leave the country, you ingrate!"


No, you are saying you don't want to be part of the social contract that is a government, except for these few things you'd like to keep. Governments do not work that way, so if you don't like it get out. The reason it "always goes that way" is that you want the benefits of society but none of the responsibilities. Since you are thinking in these childlike concepts, we have to respond accordingly with extremes so that you understand how dumbassed you're being.
 
2013-10-23 02:48:37 PM

jigger: machodonkeywrestler: jigger: cameroncrazy1984: jigger: You don't need to abolish them. Just make them optional.

They ARE optional.

I can tell my employer to stop taking out FICA then?

You can be exempt from taxes as soon as you relinquish your US citizenship and leave the country.

I could kill myself too. Everything's optional then.

But this is how it always goes.

"Everyone loves these programs the Iraq War."

"I don't."

"Then leave the country, you ingrate!"

 
2013-10-23 02:58:49 PM

Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous. We'll see if that remains the case now that the shutdown is over and we see if and how the problems are resolved..


I would urge caution to Republicans on hitching their trailer to such a temporary thing as web-site problems.
 
2013-10-23 03:07:03 PM

mrshowrules: Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous. We'll see if that remains the case now that the shutdown is over and we see if and how the problems are resolved..

I would urge caution to Republicans on hitching their trailer to such a temporary thing as web-site problems.


Especially since there are several states whose exchange websites are functioning with virtually no problems whatsoever. I don't think they want to draw attention to the fact that they rejected setting up their own exchanges because of political expediency right after they were perceived by three out of four Americans to be shutting down the government for political expediency related to ObamaCare.
 
2013-10-23 03:53:33 PM
I don't seem to recall any penalties or fines imposed for not enrolling in Medicare or Part D.
 
2013-10-23 04:04:23 PM

Serious Black: mrshowrules: Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous. We'll see if that remains the case now that the shutdown is over and we see if and how the problems are resolved..

I would urge caution to Republicans on hitching their trailer to such a temporary thing as web-site problems.

Especially since there are several states whose exchange websites are functioning with virtually no problems whatsoever. I don't think they want to draw attention to the fact that they rejected setting up their own exchanges because of political expediency right after they were perceived by three out of four Americans to be shutting down the government for political expediency related to ObamaCare.


Sometimes I don't if Obama is brilliant or just lucky.  Having the GOP focusing on the web-site now is like a honey pot approach.  Get them all gooey and stuck in the honey pot and then make it suddenly irrelevant.

GOP have focused on three mutually incompatible ideas.
1.  Obamacare is going to destroy the universe
2.  Everyone's going to love Obamacare and you will never be able to get rid of it so it will be additional entitlement spending
3.  The roll-out is a failure

Before the 2014 elections 1 & 3 will become irrelevant/disproved.  Also, 2 is stupid because the CBO shows that Obamacare is saving a fortune.   What will they be left with and how will they justify the Government shutdown then.
 
2013-10-23 04:04:56 PM

vonster: I don't seem to recall any penalties or fines imposed for not enrolling in Medicare or Part D.


Uh. You can get fined for not paying your taxes.
 
2013-10-23 04:11:10 PM

mrshowrules: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Grungehamster: Actually, approval of the law is increasing. Sure, it's in the margin of error but it's still showing that the first couple weeks haven't been too disastrous. We'll see if that remains the case now that the shutdown is over and we see if and how the problems are resolved..

I would urge caution to Republicans on hitching their trailer to such a temporary thing as web-site problems.

Especially since there are several states whose exchange websites are functioning with virtually no problems whatsoever. I don't think they want to draw attention to the fact that they rejected setting up their own exchanges because of political expediency right after they were perceived by three out of four Americans to be shutting down the government for political expediency related to ObamaCare.

Sometimes I don't if Obama is brilliant or just lucky.  Having the GOP focusing on the web-site now is like a honey pot approach.  Get them all gooey and stuck in the honey pot and then make it suddenly irrelevant.

GOP have focused on three mutually incompatible ideas.
1.  Obamacare is going to destroy the universe
2.  Everyone's going to love Obamacare and you will never be able to get rid of it so it will be additional entitlement spending
3.  The roll-out is a failure

Before the 2014 elections 1 & 3 will become irrelevant/disproved.  Also, 2 is stupid because the CBO shows that Obamacare is saving a fortune.   What will they be left with and how will they justify the Government shutdown then.


It takes an astute individual to recognize when an opportunity will be better than the current path and to grab hold of it for dear life. Example: Syria. Obama may have looked wishy-washy with his "red line" comment and seeking Congressional approval for a strike, but does anybody seriously think that the outcome we ended up with is worse than what would have happened if we had struck immediately? Syria signed the freaking Chemical Weapons Convention! They're willingly letting UN inspectors come into the country to demolish their weapons! The destruction is progressing on schedule! Obama may be lucky, but he was good enough to recognize that Russia's initial comments supporting what John Kerry said it would take to stop a strike represented a path out.
 
2013-10-23 04:19:08 PM

Serious Black: It takes an astute individual to recognize when an opportunity will be better than the current path and to grab hold of it for dear life. Example: Syria. Obama may have looked wishy-washy with his "red line" comment and seeking Congressional approval for a strike, but does anybody seriously think that the outcome we ended up with is worse than what would have happened if we had struck immediately? Syria signed the freaking Chemical Weapons Convention! They're willingly letting UN inspectors come into the country to demolish their weapons! The destruction is progressing on schedule! Obama may be lucky, but he was good enough to recognize that Russia's initial comments supporting what John Kerry said it would take to stop a strike represented a path out.


Syria is another perfect example.  I see your point.  The recovery is stalling but bang, I just killed OBL mutherfarkers.

However, it seemed every time during the campaign that Obama was sliding in the polls, the Republican would say/do something mind numbingly stupid and he would recover.

He flubbed the first debate but followed it with "please proceed Governor".

Looking back it almost seems like a pattern of luck.  However, if you look more closely, you realize that the GOP are just a bunch of idiots doing stupid things who can't capitalize on any successes when them have them because they are just that farking stupid.

I think they blew all their luck on getting Dubya in the house and now the well is dry.
 
2013-10-23 05:02:04 PM
No doubt the web problems will eventually be fixed, probably at some enormous cost in time and money. What won't is the inherent flaws in the law itself. For just one example, the act of removing hundreds of billions from Medicare will ultimately result in a lot of doctors refusing new Medicare patients. A lot of people are going to have coverage and a hell of a time finding somewhere to use it.
 
2013-10-23 05:08:18 PM

jjorsett: No doubt the web problems will eventually be fixed, probably at some enormous cost in time and money. What won't is the inherent flaws in the law itself. For just one example, the act of removing hundreds of billions from Medicare will ultimately result in a lot of doctors refusing new Medicare patients. A lot of people are going to have coverage and a hell of a time finding somewhere to use it.


www.prometeogallery.com
 
2013-10-23 05:15:38 PM

Serious Black: It takes an astute individual to recognize when an opportunity will be better than the current path and to grab hold of it for dear life. Example: Syria. Obama may have looked wishy-washy with his "red line" comment and seeking Congressional approval for a strike, but does anybody seriously think that the outcome we ended up with is worse than what would have happened if we had struck immediately? Syria signed the freaking Chemical Weapons Convention! They're willingly letting UN inspectors come into the country to demolish their weapons! The destruction is progressing on schedule! Obama may be lucky, but he was good enough to recognize that Russia's initial comments supporting what John Kerry said it would take to stop a strike represented a path out.



And here's what the former Saudi ambassador to Washington had to say about that:

"The current charade of international control over Bashar's chemical arsenal would be funny if it were not so blatantly perfidious, and designed not only to give Mr. Obama an opportunity to back down, but also to help Assad butcher his people."

And now Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar has decided to downgrade ties with the CIA in training Syrian rebels, preferring instead to work with the French and Jordanians. The Saudis have also said they're no longer going to give preferential treatment to US arms dealers, and aren't going to pay attention to Washington's demands for limits on what they arm Syrian rebels with (e.g. surface-to-air missiles that could bring down civilian planes if terrorists get their hands on them). They've also come to the realization that the Obama administration isn't going to do anything about Iran getting nukes, so don't be surprised if they conclude that they need their own, probably from Pakistan.

So the Obama adminstration's clear signals that it doesn't mean what it says (when it even bothers to pretend to care) about lines in the sand is causing our former allies to start edging away and contributing to less stability in the region.
 
2013-10-23 05:16:30 PM

CPennypacker: jjorsett: No doubt the web problems will eventually be fixed, probably at some enormous cost in time and money. What won't is the inherent flaws in the law itself. For just one example, the act of removing hundreds of billions from Medicare will ultimately result in a lot of doctors refusing new Medicare patients. A lot of people are going to have coverage and a hell of a time finding somewhere to use it.

[www.prometeogallery.com image 800x575]


Is that denial, or a scream of anguish?
 
2013-10-23 05:18:04 PM

jjorsett: CPennypacker: jjorsett: No doubt the web problems will eventually be fixed, probably at some enormous cost in time and money. What won't is the inherent flaws in the law itself. For just one example, the act of removing hundreds of billions from Medicare will ultimately result in a lot of doctors refusing new Medicare patients. A lot of people are going to have coverage and a hell of a time finding somewhere to use it.

[www.prometeogallery.com image 800x575]

Is that denial, or a scream of anguish?


Its you're wrong. Go away.
 
2013-10-23 06:02:30 PM

jjorsett: And now Saudi intelligence chief Prince Bandar has decided to downgrade ties with the CIA in training Syrian rebels, preferring instead to work with the French and Jordanians. The Saudis have also said they're no longer going to give preferential treatment to US arms dealers, and aren't going to pay attention to Washington's demands for limits on what they arm Syrian rebels with (e.g. surface-to-air missiles that could bring down civilian planes if terrorists get their hands on them). They've also come to the realization that the Obama administration isn't going to do anything about Iran getting nukes, so don't be surprised if they conclude that they need their own, probably from Pakistan.

So the Obama adminstration's clear signals that it doesn't mean what it says (when it even bothers to pretend to care) about lines in the sand is causing our former allies to start edging away and contributing to less stability in the region.


So you'd prefer a war then?
 
2013-10-23 06:29:19 PM

jjorsett: So the Obama adminstration's clear signals that it doesn't mean what it says (when it even bothers to pretend to care) about lines in the sand is causing our former allies to start edging away and contributing to less stability in the region.


So, what, if the car is about to drive off a cliff and plummet down a canyon, your response would be "Well, I already promised I would keep driving in this direction, I might as well slam my foot on the gas"?
 
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