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(Alaska Dispatch)   The wildfire in Alaska that did $5.5 million dollars worth of damage this summer? It started because it apparently never occurred to the Army that firing high explosive artillery shells in warm, dry, windy conditions was a bad idea   (alaskadispatch.com) divider line 74
    More: Followup, artillery shells, Alaska, radiation damages, wildfires, Air Force Base, Pleasant Valley, fire suppression, Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson  
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2832 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2013 at 6:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-22 05:17:23 PM  
Or the Army was sending a message to the Alaskan secessionists.
 
2013-10-22 05:22:38 PM  
Fire in the frozen north!? Global warmingz!
 
2013-10-22 05:24:43 PM  
There's only one artillery unit up at Fort Wainwright, that's 2nd Battalion, 8th Field Artillery.  I'll bet their CO just started the countdown to retirement.
 
2013-10-22 05:50:21 PM  
Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.
 
2013-10-22 06:22:18 PM  

JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.


And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?
 
2013-10-22 06:22:45 PM  
In other news, there's $5.5 million worth of stuff in Alaska to burn.

/well ... not an more.
 
2013-10-22 06:23:22 PM  
For the last time; fire good!

Fire clears out dead trees, underbrush and allows the forest to regenerate. The only bad thing about it is; people decide that it's a good idea to build homes in areas prone to wildfires.

/ fire is our friend
 
2013-10-22 06:25:46 PM  
Well... they were firing $1.233 billion dollar depleted-unobtanium shells, it's not like the weren't doing a cost-benefit analysis. It just came out that the bottom line didn't pan out. Let's agree to disagree, table this discussion, run it up a flagpole and synthesize our relative competitivenessisms.
 
2013-10-22 06:26:18 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?


Russia. They can see it from their houses up there, and that's sure close enough to use long-range artillery on!

/couldn't resist
 
2013-10-22 06:28:20 PM  
Unfortunate incident. Good thing the lesson was learned with minimal damage. 5.5 million is not a lot as these things go.
 
2013-10-22 06:29:24 PM  
We should totally cut their funding.
 
2013-10-22 06:29:32 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?


Wasteful government spending.
 
2013-10-22 06:30:14 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: In other news, there's $5.5 million worth of stuff in Alaska to burn.

/well ... not an more.


any ... any

/*sigh*
 
2013-10-22 06:30:51 PM  

LargeCanine: Unfortunate incident. Good thing the lesson was learned with minimal damage. 5.5 million is not a lot as these things go.


Then you have the resulting costs from people needing to be evacuated, people going to the hospitals for smoke related illness, staffing requiremnets etc. etc.
 
2013-10-22 06:31:40 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?


Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.
 
2013-10-22 06:35:05 PM  

devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.


Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...
 
2013-10-22 06:36:35 PM  
 Army officials backtracked on Johnson's comments, saying that they were unsure of the fire's cause did not want to pay any damage claims
 
2013-10-22 06:37:32 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...


Are they brown, or not? Yes? Then they had it coming.
 
2013-10-22 06:40:42 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...


Give war a chance.
 
2013-10-22 06:43:25 PM  
I put the fires out. (You made them worse!)
Worse? Or ... better?

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-10-22 06:43:35 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...


You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.
 
2013-10-22 06:44:33 PM  
Observer: Hey, those WP rounds started a large fire.
FDC: Oh, ok.
Observer: How do we put it out?  Range control is going to be pissed.
FDC: How about we walk some HE rounds onto the fire?
Observer: Why not?
 
2013-10-22 06:45:19 PM  
Meanwhile, down at Ft. Hood there has never been a gunnery that  hasn't set the entire sugarloaf range complex on fire and required helicopters full of water.
 
2013-10-22 06:49:46 PM  

ElLoco: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

Are they brown, or not? Yes? Then they had it coming.


They attack all the time, it just depends what part of Afghanistan you're in.  Near Pakistan?  Then you get a lot of IDF.  We used M119s and 777s on a daily basis.  The mortar teams were just as busy on the smaller COPs where min. range was a factor.  That and 60mm mortars don't need air clearance to counter-fire.
 
2013-10-22 06:51:26 PM  
We're supposed to believe the investigators when they somehow trace a wildfire over 500 square miles back to some campfire or a particular cigarette butt in densely populated california... and they do it within a couple days.

meanwhile...in sparsely populated alaska...

The Monday announcement by the Army that it is responsible for starting the fire comes after a 14-week investigation into the fire

Three months to figure out that the idiots everyone knew started the fire to begin with, started the fire. That's good work there boys.
 
2013-10-22 06:51:33 PM  
Damn, they missed Sarah Palin's house by like......miles.
 
2013-10-22 06:54:22 PM  
Stillman still hasn't improved his aim, I see.

/obscure?
 
2013-10-22 06:56:53 PM  

devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.


Ultimately it was CIA analysts and a small special ops team that took down Bin Laden. Long range artillery didn't seem very useful for that purpose.
 
2013-10-22 06:58:33 PM  
www.barnorama.com
She can see the smoke from Russia.
 
2013-10-22 06:58:41 PM  

Reynald: Meanwhile, down at Ft. Hood there has never been a gunnery that  hasn't set the entire sugarloaf range complex on fire and required helicopters full of water.


Oh the joy of jumping into a 5-ton and racing up the hill just to unlimber the heavy as frak metal backpacks full of water to spray down an area struck by an errant tracer.
 
2013-10-22 06:59:07 PM  
The shells they were firing probably cost more than 5.5 million.
 
2013-10-22 06:59:13 PM  
And just for the record, I think that as long as we have soldiers over there, they should be allowed to smoke anyone that even looks at them the wrong way. But I still don't think we should be there, not even in October 2001.
 
2013-10-22 07:02:18 PM  

JohnBigBootay: We're supposed to believe the investigators when they somehow trace a wildfire over 500 square miles back to some campfire or a particular cigarette butt in densely populated california... and they do it within a couple days.

meanwhile...in sparsely populated alaska...

The Monday announcement by the Army that it is responsible for starting the fire comes after a 14-week investigation into the fire

Three months to figure out that the idiots everyone knew started the fire to begin with, started the fire. That's good work there boys.


Maybe civilians cop quicker than the military when something goes wrong.
 
2013-10-22 07:03:41 PM  
Hey, once the round leaves the barrel, it ain't my concern.
 
2013-10-22 07:04:21 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.

Ultimately it was CIA analysts and a small special ops team that took down Bin Laden. Long range artillery didn't seem very useful for that purpose.


It was Marines and soldiers that took down the Taliban government.  The politicians may have farked up the rest of it, but the regulars on the ground did their job, and still do their jobs to the best of their ability.
 
2013-10-22 07:09:10 PM  

devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.

Ultimately it was CIA analysts and a small special ops team that took down Bin Laden. Long range artillery didn't seem very useful for that purpose.

It was Marines and soldiers that took down the Taliban government.  The politicians may have farked up the rest of it, but the regulars on the ground did their job, and still do their jobs to the best of their ability.


The Taliban didn't pose a threat to the US.
 
2013-10-22 07:09:34 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: And just for the record, I think that as long as we have soldiers over there, they should be allowed to smoke anyone that even looks at them the wrong way. But I still don't think we should be there, not even in October 2001.


Then you were one of the only ones.  Not even my hippy dippy protester aunt, who called my dad, her brother, a murderer when he came home from Panama, Gulf War I, and Somalia, said I did the wrong thing when I came home in '02.
 
2013-10-22 07:11:07 PM  
This is just one reason why states are not happy to close down any military installation/cash cow.      Every summer the base near us sets the forest on fire at the arty range.

Every summer they pay the state some $$$ to cover expenses.


mo' money, mo' money...
 
2013-10-22 07:12:30 PM  

devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.

Ultimately it was CIA analysts and a small special ops team that took down Bin Laden. Long range artillery didn't seem very useful for that purpose.

It was Marines and soldiers that took down the Taliban government.  The politicians may have farked up the rest of it, but the regulars on the ground did their job, and still do their jobs to the best of their ability.


And artillery is a viable and valuable tool in the arsenal of things that keep those "regulars on the ground" alive and doing their job.  In short,  Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom is just being quarrelsome for no reason.

/22nd MEU, 2009-2010
//POG as hell
 
2013-10-22 07:16:52 PM  
As for the article, I distinctly remember doing a training op in Greece.  We were going to have a .50cal range, so we drove down to the range site with the burned out tank carcasses, set up a line of HMMWVs, mounted the .50cals on turrets and just... waited for the OK.

Word finally came down from the RSO that we could shoot the range, but we couldn't use tracers.  All of our .50cal ammo was linked 4-and-1 with tracers... so we had to manually delink all the tracers and relink all the ball rounds together.  We were planning on expending 60,000 rounds total, so we had to take 12,000 rounds out.  We'd removed about 9,000 of those rounds when word came down from the RSO again that the range had been canceled and we had to turn our ammo back in to the ASP... which of course meant that we had to link it 4-and-1 again.

Sonofabiatch.
 
2013-10-22 07:18:11 PM  

Rhino_man: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: devildog123: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: JerseyTim: Our enemy will not wait for perfect conditions and neither should our men.

And who is our enemy, again, that we need to use long range explosive artillery against?

Actually, 155mm shells are pretty useful in Afghanistan if the generals and colonels decide that the ROEs let you fire them that day.

Oh yeah, those Afghanis who so mercilessly attacked us, um, never...

You're right.  Their government back in 2001 didn't shelter the leadership for the organization that killed over 3,000 Americans.  Staying this long is pretty depressing, and there are about a dozen reasons why we should have left by now, but back in October of 2001, there were maybe 3 people saying that we didn't have the right to go in there in the first place.

Ultimately it was CIA analysts and a small special ops team that took down Bin Laden. Long range artillery didn't seem very useful for that purpose.

It was Marines and soldiers that took down the Taliban government.  The politicians may have farked up the rest of it, but the regulars on the ground did their job, and still do their jobs to the best of their ability.

And artillery is a viable and valuable tool in the arsenal of things that keep those "regulars on the ground" alive and doing their job.  In short,  Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom is just being quarrelsome for no reason.

/22nd MEU, 2009-2010
//POG as hell


I'm just of the opinion that we don't really have any real "enemies" that we need to use artillery against. I'm talking legitimate threats to our national security, not boogeymen of the week that defense contractor CEO's pick out for us.
 
2013-10-22 07:20:26 PM  
The Army report said the artillery unit should not have been allowed to use high explosive shells during the Red Flag Warning in June.  It also claimed the decision to conduct the training was not properly handled by Army Alaska staff. The report recommended the Army use non-incendiary shells for artillery practice when local fire danger is high.

I didn't know high explosive shells were considered incendiary shells.  Learn something new every day.
 
2013-10-22 07:24:27 PM  

SwiftFox: The Army report said the artillery unit should not have been allowed to use high explosive shells during the Red Flag Warning in June.  It also claimed the decision to conduct the training was not properly handled by Army Alaska staff. The report recommended the Army use non-incendiary shells for artillery practice when local fire danger is high.

I didn't know high explosive shells were considered incendiary shells.  Learn something new every day.


Well, over dry grass, birch trees, and evergreens, red hot shell fragments can set lots of shiat on fire.
 
2013-10-22 07:25:45 PM  

special20: [www.barnorama.com image 570x714]
She can see the smoke from Russia.


Well, there's STRONG, Army Strong, and Russian Army Strong.

/or, what's the NATO code for this new type of Russian ICBM?
 
2013-10-22 07:26:22 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:

The Taliban didn't pose a threat to the US.

Sure they did. Who else do you think was in control of the opium trade?
 
2013-10-22 07:35:34 PM  
Wait till you figure out why the sexual assault mess is getting so awful. It appears "he said/she said" situations don't go well with law 50 years behind the curve. That's going to go over real well when people find out we haven't even gotten the brigade combat teams directly into till this horrible, tragic line of irony until just recently. Let's just say someone passed the memo around about 20 years late.

/ex paralegal
//swore never to deal with law ever, ever again.
 
2013-10-22 07:37:50 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:
I'm just of the opinion that we don't really have any real "enemies" that we need to use artillery against. I'm talking legitimate threats to our national security, not boogeymen of the week that defense contractor CEO's pick out for us.

The military value of artillery is obvious.  Argue that we shouldn't have it and you may as well argue that we don't need a standing army, and good luck with that.
 
2013-10-22 07:40:13 PM  
Prfft Amateurs!  The federal government spends that much money every second.  Hell, they borrow that much money every 5 seconds.
 
2013-10-22 07:41:30 PM  

miniflea: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:
I'm just of the opinion that we don't really have any real "enemies" that we need to use artillery against. I'm talking legitimate threats to our national security, not boogeymen of the week that defense contractor CEO's pick out for us.

The military value of artillery is obvious.  Argue that we shouldn't have it and you may as well argue that we don't need a standing army, and good luck with that.


Now that you mention it... When was the last time we used our standing army to defend against attackers? The 40's?

The Cold War is over. Conventional warfare is obsolete. We could reduce our "standing army" by 75% and still outspend the next largest military in the world, who aren't even a threat to us.
 
2013-10-22 07:43:24 PM  

Rhino_man: And artillery is a viable and valuable tool in the arsenal of things that keep those "regulars on the ground" alive and doing their job.


Sort of been rendered obsolete with the plethora of rockets and missiles available now. Plus, someone fires off an artillery shell and it might cost a couple thousand to replace. But with specialized rockets we're talking millions of dollars of income for each once used.
 
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