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(ESPN)   Tiger Woods accused of cheating again, but this time it's on video   (espn.go.com) divider line 63
    More: Unlikely, Tiger Woods, Brandel Chamblee, Chamblee, TPC Sawgrass, Mark Steinberg, Golf Channel, The Players Championship, BMW Championship  
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3252 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Oct 2013 at 4:26 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-22 03:31:03 PM
cl.jroo.me
 
2013-10-22 04:32:38 PM
So an arrogant prick is accusing another arrogant prick of cheating. Big deal.
 
2013-10-22 04:38:07 PM
I so do not understand golf. Did he cheat or not?
 
2013-10-22 04:46:17 PM
So, let's see: Abu Dhabi- up there with Dustin Johnson grounding his club at the PGA. Dumbass move, even if he consulted his fellow-competitor to see if it was legal.
Augusta- 2 strokes. I get the argument for why he should have disqualified himself, too. However, if he would have said "as close as possible" rather than "two yards back" in a post-round interview, there would have been no breach of the Rules.
The Players- he followed the Rules to a T. This is still brought up as some sort of knock on Tiger, because it's "controversial" for some reason.

That leaves the BMW. Judgment call between "oscillated" and "moved". I'm down with two strokes. I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?
 
2013-10-22 04:48:09 PM

someonelse: I so do not understand golf. Did he cheat or not?


If you believe he did, then yes. If you believe he didn't, then no.

If you want to look at it both ways, then maybe.
 
2013-10-22 04:50:10 PM
I wonder how many times the writer would be caught "cheating" at his job if the cameras were on him every second he was at work and a group of millions were free to nitpick and call out anything they see and have it be taken seriously by his employer.

What other sport allows spectators to be referees, and on top of that make calls after a game has been played and change the outcome of the game? It's absurd.
 
2013-10-22 04:51:17 PM

Gonz: I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?


Golf should be more like other sports, if it's not caught by on-course officials by the time they tee of on the next hole, too bad, it's over.
 
2013-10-22 04:52:33 PM
If my ball has mud on it, I wipe it off....wherever.

/does that make me a bad person?
//sometimes i play the holes backwards
///lives on golf course but sneaks on to play
 
2013-10-22 04:53:03 PM
Its unfair that the guy who gets half the endorsement money in golf has more cameras on him and is expected not to cheat? Halp! Tiger is being oppressed with media exposure!
 
2013-10-22 04:54:03 PM

Gonz: I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?


This. Also stop taking phone calls from douchebags sitting at home.
 
2013-10-22 04:55:37 PM
I wish Tiger would start beating the fark out of everybody in majors again.

/yes I occasionally root for the villain in movies
 
2013-10-22 04:58:31 PM

desertgeek: So an arrogant prick is accusing another arrogant prick of cheating. Big deal.


Well one is no talent arrogant, attention seeking hack, the other has a talent to be arrogant about, big difference.
 
2013-10-22 05:00:06 PM

mikaloyd: Its unfair that the guy who gets half the endorsement money in golf has more cameras on him and is expected not to cheat? Halp! Tiger is being oppressed with media exposure!


By your logic, a different set of rules should apply to Tom Brady than to Drew Brees and Terrelle Pryor, and Jimmie Johnson should race under a different set of rules than the rest of NASCAR.
 
2013-10-22 05:05:38 PM

someonelse: I so do not understand golf. Did he cheat or not?


He caused the ball to move and then played it from the wrong spot without replacing it. That's a penalty.

He was assessed the penalty and signed his scorecard.

Did he knowingly cause the ball to move while improving his lie but kept playing hoping nobody saw it? If so, that's pretty much breaking the biggest rule in golf and is cheating.

His explanation is acceptable and it took high def slomo to determine what happened. It's a gray area where it is reasonable to assume he saw what he saw and that he should know better given his experience.

That being said, the BMW incident is the only one I'd say is even worth discussing and even that comes in a gay area.

1) the Abu Dhabi incident was unknown and it is reasonable to go with Tiger's decision. He confirmed with another player and they agreed that tiger did the right thing. Martin Kaymer could've disagreed and told tiger no drop.

2) the bay hill...every person watching that drive (players, caddies, announcers, on course reporter, and video replay) couldn't decide exactly where the ball went over the hazard. His playing partner provided a spot and tiger went with it. That is beyond enough evidence to absolve tiger.

3) the masters drop is a gray area in the rules. I think tiger should know better than to conflate two rules and his caddy should definitely be able to stop him. Given the time in the tournament and the importance, he performed a drop at the original location that would've been legal at the secondary location he was looking at. Not the most egregious thing in the world. Also, given distance control, divot, and the slope on that hole, I'd probably consider te same thing tiger did and not blink an eye.

Chambee has always had a hardon for bashing tiger. I think he glossed over the earlier events to paint the picture he wanted. He could've been more realistic/honest about the earlier events or he could've JUST focused on the BMW event (which is bad enough), but that would've made his argument weaker.

I wrote a lot. Sorry.
 
2013-10-22 05:06:54 PM
WTF kind of a name is Brandel? Sounds like a topical pain relief cream or something...
 
2013-10-22 05:08:45 PM

Gonz: mikaloyd: Its unfair that the guy who gets half the endorsement money in golf has more cameras on him and is expected not to cheat? Halp! Tiger is being oppressed with media exposure!

By your logic, a different set of rules should apply to Tom Brady than to Drew Brees and Terrelle Pryor, and Jimmie Johnson should race under a different set of rules than the rest of NASCAR.


Winning cars are treated differently than the start and parks. Tom Brady sure as hell gets treated differently by refs than Terrelle Pryor.
 
2013-10-22 05:09:33 PM
Players whoops
 
2013-10-22 05:11:54 PM

Gonz: mikaloyd: Its unfair that the guy who gets half the endorsement money in golf has more cameras on him and is expected not to cheat? Halp! Tiger is being oppressed with media exposure!

By your logic, a different set of rules should apply to Tom Brady than to Drew Brees and Terrelle Pryor, and Jimmie Johnson should race under a different set of rules than the rest of NASCAR.


No, by that logic, the same level of rule enforcement should apply to Brady and Pryor (spoiler alert: it doesn't).
 
2013-10-22 05:12:37 PM
You break the rules, you pay the prescribed penalty, and you move on. No need to get self-righteous about it.
 
2013-10-22 05:13:46 PM

Gonz: mikaloyd: Its unfair that the guy who gets half the endorsement money in golf has more cameras on him and is expected not to cheat? Halp! Tiger is being oppressed with media exposure!

By your logic, a different set of rules should apply to Tom Brady than to Drew Brees and Terrelle Pryor, and Jimmie Johnson should race under a different set of rules than the rest of NASCAR.


If they get caught cheating they should fess up and quit cheating? Im OK with this.
 
2013-10-22 05:17:07 PM
bulldg4life:That being said, the BMW incident is the only one I'd say is even worth discussing and even that comes in a gay area.

NTTAWWT.
 
2013-10-22 05:17:26 PM
img2.timeinc.net

He just needs to spend more time with this guy and lighten up.
 
2013-10-22 05:27:53 PM

ghall3: Gonz: I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?

Golf should be more like other sports, if it's not caught by on-course officials by the time they tee of on the next hole, too bad, it's over.


Yep. The Heenan Rule is appropriate: If the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen.  Even if they get a second look at it.
 
2013-10-22 05:34:23 PM
Ummm...who cares it's farking golf. The second most boring sport on the planet, only bowling is more tedious and boring.
 
2013-10-22 05:43:58 PM
Tiger Wood is a well-known bender of rules. Dan Jenkins even wrote a book (Slim & None) that had a character that was a thinly disguised Tiger Woods (Cheetah Farmer) whose cheating ways finally brought him down. This isn't news, it's common knowledge.
 
2013-10-22 05:51:24 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Ummm...who cares it's farking golf. The second most boring sport on the planet, only bowling is more tedious and boring.


Boring to watch? I can understand the reasoning if you don't play.

Frustrating to play? If you really suck, sure.

I'm sure I'll get a few people to agree that if you are halfway decent at golf, it makes watching the Tour much more entertaining. Seeing the shots these guys can make is incredible if you realize the skill it takes to make them.

I used to not understand how my father could sit in front of the TV on weekends and watch golf, then I started playing it every weekend and it makes you understand just how impressive what they do on Tour is.

Plus playing gives me an excuse to drink with my buddies at 10:00am on a Sunday and shoot the shiat.
 
2013-10-22 05:52:49 PM
Closed as soon as it autoplayed.
 
2013-10-22 05:58:00 PM
If you're not cheating, you're not trying hard enough to win.
 
2013-10-22 06:02:01 PM

bulldg4life: That being said, the BMW incident is the only one I'd say is even worth discussing and even that comes in a gay area.


Is that when they found his car parked in a fabulous part of Manchester?

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-22 06:10:30 PM
Mr. Woods no longer has that roid sheen.
 
2013-10-22 06:17:53 PM
ya know we talk about the NFL needing another XFL full of roids and cussing and touchdown celebrations and etc....

i think what we really need is an XGA, i mean golf would be a lot more fun with all of the above + rowdy screaming fans, the XGA should have a rule too where players can try to sabotage other players' balls
 
2013-10-22 06:30:00 PM
Cheating, what is it?  Since I only understand stuff when put in the language of football:

Holding to keep a defender from smashing your quarterback.  Rules violation - not cheating.  Holding results in a penalty, but we don't call players who hold 'cheaters.'

Videotaping an opponent's closed practice.  Rises to higher level than a mere 'rules violation - this is cheating.  Where to draw the line?  I'm not exactly sure.

It seems to me that Tiger's penalties are close to holding than videotaping a closed practice, but golf is kind funny about the rules.
 
2013-10-22 06:36:32 PM

Gonz: So, let's see: Abu Dhabi- up there with Dustin Johnson grounding his club at the PGA. Dumbass move, even if he consulted his fellow-competitor to see if it was legal.
Augusta- 2 strokes. I get the argument for why he should have disqualified himself, too. However, if he would have said "as close as possible" rather than "two yards back" in a post-round interview, there would have been no breach of the Rules.
The Players- he followed the Rules to a T. This is still brought up as some sort of knock on Tiger, because it's "controversial" for some reason.

That leaves the BMW. Judgment call between "oscillated" and "moved". I'm down with two strokes. I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?


thread winner.  I agree with all you said here.  at the tour championship I can see where TW might have thought his ball just osscilated.   however once he was shown the obvious video evidence  to continue to denying the ball did indeed change position means he is a self-delusional nut job and has no sense of fairness, sportsmanship.
 
2013-10-22 06:37:37 PM

upndn: If my ball has mud on it, I wipe it off....wherever.

/does that make me a bad person?
//sometimes i play the holes backwards
///lives on golf course but sneaks on to play


yes that makes you a cheater and thief.
 
2013-10-22 07:45:46 PM
im going to invest in fainting couches if Tiger ever starts winning.
 
2013-10-22 07:45:53 PM

Crewmannumber6: Gonz: I also recognize that, in equity, the rest of the field needs to have HDTV cameras following them around the course and recording every move they make. Otherwise, certain guys are going to face a higher level of scrutiny from the PGA than others, and that's just not fair, now is it?

This. Also stop taking phone calls from douchebags sitting at home.


Especially anonymous douchebags calling from Vegas who probably have a few grand riding on the outcome.
 
2013-10-22 07:54:29 PM

steamingpile: desertgeek: So an arrogant prick is accusing another arrogant prick of cheating. Big deal.

Well one is no talent arrogant, attention seeking hack, the other has a talent to be arrogant about is a sports agent, big no difference.



FTFY
 
2013-10-22 08:15:53 PM
Don't count that, I was interfered with.
 
2013-10-22 08:27:30 PM

Lost Thought 00: You break the rules, you pay the prescribed penalty, and you move on. No need to get self-righteous about it.


Millions of players do that at clubs every week. I took 2 strokes on a double hit for the first time in my life this weekend.
(Actually it's 1 plus you count the second strike. Did not know that)

Tiger has assumed he plays by a different set his whole career, and his sycophants have enabled him
 
2013-10-22 08:37:16 PM
The column reeks of attention-whoring ("I'm going to call Tiger a cheater, and it'll be so controversial!").

Looks like he got what he wanted, people are talking about it, so good job, I guess.
 
2013-10-22 08:56:52 PM
If anything Tiger should be watched even closer for cheating because he has shown such eager enthusiasm to cheat and no remorse whatsoever even after being caught
 
2013-10-22 11:22:09 PM

kmaywfec: bulldg4life:That being said, the BMW incident is the only one I'd say is even worth discussing and even that comes in a gay area.

NTTAWWT.


I was going to say, man, if they caught that on camera I bet he had to take more than two strokes.
 
2013-10-23 12:01:25 AM

upndn: If my ball has mud on it, I wipe it off....wherever.

/does that make me a bad person?
//sometimes i play the holes backwards
///lives on golf course but sneaks on to play


Hero.
 
2013-10-23 12:37:15 AM
Aaaaaand Chamblee has apologized for "going too far". That didn't take long. The'new normal' hack journalist penchant for saying something outrageous and controversial then apologizing almost immediately on Twitter continues.

Journalism isn't dead. It's just evolved into meaningless self-serving prattle.
 
2013-10-23 04:11:54 AM
A. Some of the rules of golf are retarded. Like the guy who put a towel down under his knees while he was attempting a shot from the knees under some trees...penalty for "improving stance". WTF?

B. Whenever a player marks his ball on the putting surface, when he replaces his ball, 100% of pros cheat 100% of the time. There is a "best" place for that ball to be within that maybe 1/4 sq inch wherein the player could place the ball without getting caught even if the camera is right on them. Believe me, that ball finds that spot every time.

C. Not as bad as his buddy, Mark O'Neara, amirite?
 
2013-10-23 07:00:36 AM
The only one worth mentioning on that list is the Players Championship; that drop was bullshiat.  I found the hole on Google Earth and plotted everything on the satellite image, and he'd had to have started his shot 100 yards right of the fairway and hooked it all the way back into the lake on the left to get it to cross that point.

That said, if that's where his playing partner swore it crossed, and no one else had any better information, then it's kosher.

img.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-10-23 08:19:31 AM

dookdookdook: The only one worth mentioning on that list is the Players Championship; that drop was bullshiat.  I found the hole on Google Earth and plotted everything on the satellite image, and he'd had to have started his shot 100 yards right of the fairway and hooked it all the way back into the lake on the left to get it to cross that point.

That said, if that's where his playing partner swore it crossed, and no one else had any better information, then it's kosher.

[img.gawkerassets.com image 640x437]


Just as an FYI, Tour players rarely, if ever, hit a straight drive.   Hooks and fades mostly in order to get the best placement for the next shot.  Depending on the design of the rest of the hole (not taking the time to look it up) it could be perfectly reasonable for him to hit a hook attempting to keep the ball from crossing the water and (depending on how high those trees are) keep the risk of landing in that left side bunker low.   The attempt could have been to land the ball on the left side of the fairway and have it move toward the middle.  This, of course, depends on the wind direction as well.

There is A LOT that goes into a tee shot by a tour player that wouldn't even come up in conversation with a "normal" 10+ handicap golfer, they do not just grip it and rip it.
 
2013-10-23 08:22:35 AM
whoops that should read "land the ball on the RIGHT side of the fairway and have it move toward the middle"

/Preview is not my friend
 
2013-10-23 08:36:10 AM

DoBeDoBeDo: Just as an FYI, Tour players rarely, if ever, hit a straight drive.   Hooks and fades mostly in order to get the best placement for the next shot.  Depending on the design of the rest of the hole (not taking the time to look it up) it could be perfectly reasonable for him to hit a hook attempting to keep the ball from crossing the water and (depending on how high those trees are) keep the risk of landing in that left side bunker low.   The attempt could have been to land the ball on the left side of the fairway and have it move toward the middle.  This, of course, depends on the wind direction as well.


Draw a line on that picture between the splash point and the drop point, then try to draw a realistic arc for a golf shot that follows that line and looks anything like the "pro tracer" (or w/e it's called) paths they show on TV.  To get over those two points it would've had to start out to the right of the other lake on the right side of the fairway.

Not to mention it was a 5-wood, which is harder to curve sharply than a driver to begin with.
 
2013-10-23 08:36:48 AM
Everything you should have needed to know about Eldick Darth Woods, and his lack of playing within the spirit of the rules ,  was made available about 14 years ago.

i.imgur.com
 
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