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(New York Magazine)   Old and busted: Southern Secessionists. New hotness: Silicon Valley Secessionists   (nymag.com) divider line 159
    More: Stupid, Silicon Valley, Peter Thiel  
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2323 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Oct 2013 at 2:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



159 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-22 01:15:05 PM  
How about all secessionists of any political stripe STFU or GTFO
 
2013-10-22 01:15:46 PM  
It sounds like the standard sort of techno-utopian nonsense that you occasionally get around here. No one actually takes it very seriously.
 
2013-10-22 01:20:05 PM  
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-10-22 01:21:11 PM  
Sausage fest.
 
2013-10-22 01:41:51 PM  
I've been thinking there would be some of this sentiment within the Valley for a while, except I don't think it can or will happen anytime soon. Silicon Valley is definitely a hub of tech enthusiasts but they are in a lot of different places, it's easy to dream up a vision of the future free from the problems most of the US faces everyday, and far more difficult to implement your Ayn Rand style universe.

I do think if the US can't solve it's governmental and electorate problems in the next 10-15 years there will be brain drain to places like Europe. I've already discussed this possibility with my wife.
 
2013-10-22 02:12:10 PM  
Yeah, Atlas Shrugged, other Ayn Rand fables, and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth.
 
2013-10-22 02:21:05 PM  

abb3w: Yeah, Atlas Shrugged, other Ayn Rand fables, and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth.


If my acquaintances in Northern California are any indication, you can add in a healthy portion of more money==better than and a dollop of the ol' unwarranted self importance, too.
 
2013-10-22 02:22:29 PM  
Newsflash: "smart" people are often very stupid in areas other than their specialty.
 
2013-10-22 02:23:10 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: How about all secessionists of any political stripe STFU or GTFO


That's what they're trying to do.
 
2013-10-22 02:23:35 PM  

bdub77: I do think if the US can't solve it's governmental and electorate problems in the next 10-15 years there will be brain drain to places like Europe. I've already discussed this possibility with my wife.


I also. I can think of very few redeeming qualities about the United States, especially when it comes to raising kids.
 
2013-10-22 02:28:27 PM  

static.giantbomb.com


The popular stereotype of the researcher is that of a skeptic and a pessimist. Nothing could be further from the truth! Scientists must be optimists at heart, in order to block out the incessant chorus of those who say "It cannot be done."

 
2013-10-22 02:28:33 PM  
Huh.  So it's not just Peter Thiel.
 
2013-10-22 02:29:59 PM  

abb3w: Yeah, Atlas Shrugged, other Ayn Rand fables, and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth.


Of course it would. Those are characteristics of people who employ a lot of dry logic everyday. If x then y.
Vast majorities of Humans and the societies in which we ALL live in in a combination of a little logic and a lot of emotion.
For a general form of governance made up of the logic people, it would be a disaster and would not scale.
However....if The society had a quantifiable goal or purpose (i.e. going to Mars) and a non-bias way to "rank" a persons "worth", it would succeed.
 
2013-10-22 02:30:37 PM  

Arkanaut: Huh.  So it's not just Peter Thiel.


Nope...not just Peter.
 
2013-10-22 02:31:08 PM  

abb3w: and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth


Which is an interesting confluence, and one I think is going to fade, at least for software developers. Gone are the days of the lone-wolf programmer. Team oriented workspaces are all the rage, which I think will draw a more community-oriented sort to software engineering.
 
2013-10-22 02:33:52 PM  
Just how many generations would this nation last?
 
2013-10-22 02:35:00 PM  

images3.wikia.nocookie.net


By creating a planetary network, mankind on Planet now has the ability to share information at light-speed. But by creating a single such network, each faction has brought themselves closer to discovery as well. At the speed of light, we will catch your information, tag it like an animal in the wild, and release it unharmed-if such should serve our purposes.
 
2013-10-22 02:35:56 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?


Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?
 
2013-10-22 02:36:52 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?


lol....See, that is a VERY hard problem I have yet to find a solution to.

/why yes, I am blueprinting such a society.
 
2013-10-22 02:38:43 PM  
By all means, go galt, just leave our expensive government-provided infrastructure when you go, you parasites.
 
2013-10-22 02:38:52 PM  

BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?


Smurfs lay eggs.
 
2013-10-22 02:40:25 PM  

ikanreed: By all means, go galt, just leave our expensive government-provided infrastructure when you go, you parasites.


You mean the infrastructure that their tax money also paid for?
 
2013-10-22 02:43:18 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?


.00000000000001

Somali pirates would take them over and hold them for ransom. When no one pays, they'll execute / eat the hostages.

Facebook is not an effective defense against an AK-47.
 
2013-10-22 02:43:20 PM  
'techno-utopia'... except where will they get all their service personnel?
Oh wait, they'll just import them from Mexico, just like they do now...
 
2013-10-22 02:43:27 PM  

Ned Stark: You mean the infrastructure that their tax money also paid for?


Yeah...never really got that argument either.
 
2013-10-22 02:44:32 PM  

Ned Stark: ikanreed: By all means, go galt, just leave our expensive government-provided infrastructure when you go, you parasites.

You mean the infrastructure that their tax money also paid for?


Please, they got rich off of infrastructure the previous generation paid for.  They just don't want to shell out for the next generation.  Lazy, selfish scum, who think they're more creative than they are.
 
2013-10-22 02:44:44 PM  
Honestly, if they want to build an island and create their own paradise I say, "Good on Them!".

Don't expect US military support when pirates try to blockade their shores, don't expect governments willingness to export controlled technologies, generally expect to be treated as a third world nation, unable to get a loan from anywhere.
 
2013-10-22 02:44:54 PM  

t3knomanser: abb3w: and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth

Which is an interesting confluence, and one I think is going to fade, at least for software developers. Gone are the days of the lone-wolf programmer. Team oriented workspaces are all the rage, which I think will draw a more community-oriented sort to software engineering.


Working well with a team doesn't suddenly make you a commie. I mean, it might make you a commie, but generally speaking...

While we're at it, it's common to compare OSS to socialism too, and that's just as stupid.
 
2013-10-22 02:45:18 PM  

t3knomanser: abb3w: and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth

Which is an interesting confluence, and one I think is going to fade, at least for software developers. Gone are the days of the lone-wolf programmer. Team oriented workspaces are all the rage, which I think will draw a more community-oriented sort to software engineering.


As someone that has been in the software/hardware industry for 20 years and recently been moved into an open workspace, I farking hate it. Everyone wears headphones, so if you want to talk to someone, you have to waive at them of shoot them with a nerf gun, I don't get to control my own temp or lighting, I get to smell everyone's lunch, hear everyone's phone conversations and con-calls, and I have no private space to talk to my reports. Maybe I am too old, but having offices and collaborating in the hall way seemed a lot better.
 
2013-10-22 02:46:14 PM  

MindStalker: Honestly, if they want to build an island and create their own paradise I say, "Good on Them!".

Don't expect US military support when pirates try to blockade their shores, don't expect governments willingness to export controlled technologies, generally expect to be treated as a third world nation, unable to get a loan from anywhere.


You don't know how libertarians work do you?  They just assume they can handle those things, but will run to the government for the first clause of a contract that doesn't get upheld to their exact beliefs of what it means.
 
2013-10-22 02:46:18 PM  

nanim: 'techno-utopia'... except where will they get all their service personnel?


Automation, limited choices, multi-field cross-training, required maintenance work duties.
 
2013-10-22 02:47:28 PM  

BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?


IIRC, they're hermaphrodites that grow from eggs. Smurfette is just a freak.
 
2013-10-22 02:48:38 PM  

MindStalker: Honestly, if they want to build an island and create their own paradise I say, "Good on Them!".

Don't expect US military support when pirates try to blockade their shores, don't expect governments willingness to export controlled technologies, generally expect to be treated as a third world nation, unable to get a loan from anywhere.


That is the general idea.
REALLY don't want U.S. Military support.
 
2013-10-22 02:49:01 PM  

thermo: t3knomanser: abb3w: and libertarianism in general tend to be pretty appealing to computer geeks, engineers, and so forth

Which is an interesting confluence, and one I think is going to fade, at least for software developers. Gone are the days of the lone-wolf programmer. Team oriented workspaces are all the rage, which I think will draw a more community-oriented sort to software engineering.

As someone that has been in the software/hardware industry for 20 years and recently been moved into an open workspace, I farking hate it. Everyone wears headphones, so if you want to talk to someone, you have to waive at them of shoot them with a nerf gun, I don't get to control my own temp or lighting, I get to smell everyone's lunch, hear everyone's phone conversations and con-calls, and I have no private space to talk to my reports. Maybe I am too old, but having offices and collaborating in the hall way seemed a lot better.


The people putting these layouts in place think our jobs are as intellectually un-challenging as theirs and that concerted focus isn't needed.  The idea of a job that requires intense thought is lost on these people.  They think it's all about collaborating until things get magically "figured out".

Then they go "why?!?!" when moral and productivity takes a 50% dive over the course of a year.
 
2013-10-22 02:51:39 PM  

jonny_q: Working well with a team doesn't suddenly make you a commie


Community-oriented is not "commie". My experience with both libertarians and "geeks" is that they're  anti-social personalities. For a long time, the tech industry has rewarded anti-social behavior. It still does, but there's a shift in the sorts of personality types IT organizations are looking to hire.

And I'm speaking generally- there very well may be libertarians that think the best decision-making process is to gather all of the stakeholders and apply consensus-driven decision-making. It's just not something we'd commonly associate with that political philosophy.
 
2013-10-22 02:53:16 PM  

thermo: Everyone wears headphones, so if you want to talk to someone, you have to waive at them of shoot them with a nerf gun, I don't get to control my own temp or lighting


That is not a "team oriented" workspace. That's what happens when a PHB reads a trade magazine. A well organized team room is a quiet, healthy hive of activity. Phone calls and meetings happen outside of the team room.
 
2013-10-22 02:53:31 PM  

ikanreed: Ned Stark: ikanreed: By all means, go galt, just leave our expensive government-provided infrastructure when you go, you parasites.

You mean the infrastructure that their tax money also paid for?

Please, they got rich off of infrastructure the previous generation paid for.  They just don't want to shell out for the next generation.  Lazy, selfish scum, who think they're more creative than they are.


That doesn't make lick of sense either. Their community would have its own infrastructure planning and spending policy. Maybe not one to your taste, but what the fark right do you have to dictate that?

I think you're just a massively butthurt nationalist.
 
2013-10-22 02:53:32 PM  

BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?


It's a smurf secret.  We're not allowed to talk about our smurf vans and all the smurfy sex slaves we... ah SMURF!  Now Papa Smurf is going to have to have me smurfed.  SMURF SMURF SMURF PANIC SMURF SMURF SMURFING SMURF
 
2013-10-22 02:54:14 PM  

t3knomanser: jonny_q: Working well with a team doesn't suddenly make you a commie

Community-oriented is not "commie". My experience with both libertarians and "geeks" is that they're  anti-social personalities. For a long time, the tech industry has rewarded anti-social behavior. It still does, but there's a shift in the sorts of personality types IT organizations are looking to hire.

And I'm speaking generally- there very well may be libertarians that think the best decision-making process is to gather all of the stakeholders and apply consensus-driven decision-making. It's just not something we'd commonly associate with that political philosophy.


This is true.
I am more of "Let's see what you got and we will put it to the test against all others idea." May the best Idea win.
 
2013-10-22 02:54:45 PM  

mr lawson: required maintenance work duties.


Ah, forced labor. How very liberating and utopian.
 
2013-10-22 02:58:14 PM  

Wendy's Chili: Ah, forced labor. How very liberating and utopian.


Nothing forced about it. It is a stated requirement for entry. If you object, you are not accepted. If, after you are in you decide you don't like it, you are free to leave (but can't come back).
It is all free will.
 
2013-10-22 03:00:16 PM  

mr lawson: I am more of "Let's see what you got and we will put it to the test against all others idea." May the best Idea win.


The problem with that is which ideas win has less to do with the ideas themselves, but with the tests you perform on them. For example, libertarian philosophy takes the stance that the market is the only valid testbed for ideas. Markets tend to favor ideas that can absorb positive externalities and exude negative externalities- essentially, they reward selfish behavior which harms others.
 
2013-10-22 03:01:45 PM  
There are currently 24 Superfund cleanup sites in Santa Clara County. The tech industry in the Silicon Valley has been poisoning their environment there for decades.
 
2013-10-22 03:01:51 PM  

Ned Stark: ikanreed: Ned Stark: ikanreed: By all means, go galt, just leave our expensive government-provided infrastructure when you go, you parasites.

You mean the infrastructure that their tax money also paid for?

Please, they got rich off of infrastructure the previous generation paid for.  They just don't want to shell out for the next generation.  Lazy, selfish scum, who think they're more creative than they are.

That doesn't make lick of sense either. Their community would have its own infrastructure planning and spending policy. Maybe not one to your taste, but what the fark right do you have to dictate that?

I think you're just a massively butthurt nationalist.


Butthurt over people who get rich off a system, then denigrate it, blame it for all their problems, then attempt to screw over the next generation out of the same kind of basic support?  Yeah, I kinda am, just like I'd be butthurt over thieves and murderers.    They're not good people.
 
2013-10-22 03:02:00 PM  

wildcardjack: BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?

IIRC, they're hermaphrodites that grow from eggs. Smurfette is just a freak.


Only the current alpha presents female. Occasionally mating with other smurfs and then giving them the eggs she lays to raise. Eventually when smurfette is old and off her guard one of the others will overthrow her. Then their ahhh... "smurf" will fall off their hair will grow out and "she" will be the new smurfette.
/ugh
//skeevy fanfiction, not even once.
 
2013-10-22 03:04:37 PM  

Ned Stark: wildcardjack: BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?

IIRC, they're hermaphrodites that grow from eggs. Smurfette is just a freak.

Only the current alpha presents female. Occasionally mating with other smurfs and then giving them the eggs she lays to raise. Eventually when smurfette is old and off her guard one of the others will overthrow her. Then their ahhh... "smurf" will fall off their hair will grow out and "she" will be the new smurfette.
/ugh
//skeevy fanfiction, not even once.


Ugh, people ignoring the canon for no good reason.  Smurfette was created by gargamel.  She's not a proper smurf at all.
 
2013-10-22 03:07:32 PM  

Ned Stark: Peter von Nostrand: How about all secessionists of any political stripe STFU or GTFO

That's what they're trying to do.


It seems like it's more like they all keep threatening to do it , but don't actually have the balls to attempt it.
 
2013-10-22 03:08:00 PM  

ikanreed: Ned Stark: wildcardjack: BunkoSquad: I_Am_Weasel: Just how many generations would this nation last?

Speaking of which, how did Smurf Village keep its population from collapsing with only one Smurfette?

IIRC, they're hermaphrodites that grow from eggs. Smurfette is just a freak.

Only the current alpha presents female. Occasionally mating with other smurfs and then giving them the eggs she lays to raise. Eventually when smurfette is old and off her guard one of the others will overthrow her. Then their ahhh... "smurf" will fall off their hair will grow out and "she" will be the new smurfette.
/ugh
//skeevy fanfiction, not even once.

Ugh, people ignoring the canon for no good reason.  Smurfette was created by gargamel.  She's not a proper smurf at all.


See now its going to turn into an avatar parody and that's just weird
 
2013-10-22 03:09:07 PM  

t3knomanser: mr lawson: I am more of "Let's see what you got and we will put it to the test against all others idea." May the best Idea win.

The problem with that is which ideas win has less to do with the ideas themselves, but with the tests you perform on them. For example, libertarian philosophy takes the stance that the market is the only valid testbed for ideas. Markets tend to favor ideas that can absorb positive externalities and exude negative externalities- essentially, they reward selfish behavior which harms others.


True.

However, you may have missed my earlier post about a quantifiable goal/purpose for the society to exist in the first place. All test would have stipulations and boundaries in which would constrain and contain externalities issues as a function of the goals both micro and macro.
 
2013-10-22 03:10:15 PM  

nanim: 'techno-utopia'... except where will they get all their service personnel?
Oh wait, they'll just import them from Mexico, just like they do now...


Mexico?  pfft, we just import PhD's and MS's from Asia, work them in a manner where they can't get permanent citizenship and then pay them slave wages.

Mexicans don't make good tech slave labor.
 
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