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(BBC)   Last Neanderthals lived in Jersey, not imported from Long Island   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 29
    More: Interesting, Neanderthals, jersey, Institute of Archaeology, Long Island, Natural Environment Research Council, chronology, archaeologists, University of Southampton  
•       •       •

1679 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Oct 2013 at 9:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



29 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-22 09:31:29 AM  
It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.
 
2013-10-22 09:48:32 AM  

nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:   What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.


Basque...
 
2013-10-22 09:52:24 AM  
Methinks they're still there:
way2tan.com
 
2013-10-22 10:01:05 AM  

liam76: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:   What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

Basque...


Need actual picture of a Basque person to compare with what we think a Neanderthal looked like.
 
2013-10-22 10:04:43 AM  

nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.


During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.
 
2013-10-22 10:09:54 AM  
Last Neanderthals lived in Jersey, not imported from Long Island

What exit?
 
2013-10-22 10:10:36 AM  

give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.


Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

i38.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-22 10:39:03 AM  

nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.


They and sapiens appear to have been interfertile so I don't think they'd last long.
 
2013-10-22 10:42:44 AM  

make me some tea: give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.

Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

[i38.photobucket.com image 700x500]


Wrong Jersey.
 
2013-10-22 10:45:50 AM  

make me some tea: give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.

Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

[i38.photobucket.com image 700x500]


That's the wrong Jersey, and I thought the latest known Neanderthal remains were found in Spain.
 
2013-10-22 10:48:45 AM  

Ned Stark: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

They and sapiens appear to have been interfertile so I don't think they'd last long.


I've read that Neanderthal DNA has been found in our genome, in people living today. People who don't live in Africa, anyway.
 
2013-10-22 10:48:47 AM  

nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.


There's a lit of interesting ways you could go with that. Would slavery have lasted longer if there were major differences physically and mentally? What about miscegenation laws? Would they be used as foot soldiers by the military against their will? What about medical experimentation? I'm sure a sci-fi novel has covered it at some point.
 
2013-10-22 11:04:44 AM  

RedVentrue: Ned Stark: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

They and sapiens appear to have been interfertile so I don't think they'd last long.

I've read that Neanderthal DNA has been found in our genome, in people living today. People who don't live in Africa, anyway.


As someone of European descent, I've probably got a few percentage points of Neanderthal DNA.  That would explain this brow ridge...

Mad_Radhu: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

There's a lit of interesting ways you could go with that. Would slavery have lasted longer if there were major differences physically and mentally? What about miscegenation laws? Would they be used as foot soldiers by the military against their will? What about medical experimentation? I'm sure a sci-fi novel has covered it at some point.


Harry Turtledove wrote a series of short stories called A Different Flesh, speculating on what would have happened if the Americas were inhabited by austrolapithicenes.  I think he postulated two tiers of slavery: Africans in the house, hominids in the fields.
 
2013-10-22 11:07:44 AM  

Mad_Radhu: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

There's a lit of interesting ways you could go with that. Would slavery have lasted longer if there were major differences physically and mentally? What about miscegenation laws? Would they be used as foot soldiers by the military against their will? What about medical experimentation? I'm sure a sci-fi novel has covered it at some point.


"The 13th Warrior" by Michael Crichton had an interesting take on variously related "issues"

/Note to self: watch the flick again
 
2013-10-22 11:23:02 AM  

make me some tea: give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.

Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

[i38.photobucket.com image 700x500]


Umm, wrong Jersey. Look on the other side of the pond. Though your explanation still applies
 
2013-10-22 11:31:41 AM  
RedVentrue

I've read that Neanderthal DNA has been found in our genome, in people living today. People who don't live in Africa, anyway.

This is truish. If you get yourself tested by a genomics company, they can even tell you how much (3% for myself, as an example).

There's another theory that's being bandied about, though, suggesting that rather than non-Africans having Neandertal ancestry, the common ancestors of what would be non-Africans and Neandertals diverged from the population that would later become sub-Saharan peoples before differentiating into Neandertals and non-African sapiens. In this model, the Neandertal ancestry isn't so much direct ancestry from interbreeding as it is echoes of our common ancestry before the second split.

Either way, our genetic history is far more complicated than we used to think. The Neandertal stuff has gotten so much attention because most genetic testing occurs amongst Western Europeans, but there are signs that other archaic human populations interbred with sapiens sapiens as well...Denisovans in some Asians and Polynesians, and now we're seeing suggestions that the sub-Saharan populations might have bred with their own off-shoot hominid group as well.

Apparently, it was one big prehistoric farkfest back then.
 
2013-10-22 11:37:40 AM  

Bondith: RedVentrue: Ned Stark: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

They and sapiens appear to have been interfertile so I don't think they'd last long.

I've read that Neanderthal DNA has been found in our genome, in people living today. People who don't live in Africa, anyway.

As someone of European descent, I've probably got a few percentage points of Neanderthal DNA.  That would explain this brow ridge...

Mad_Radhu: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

There's a lit of interesting ways you could go with that. Would slavery have lasted longer if there were major differences physically and mentally? What about miscegenation laws? Would they be used as foot soldiers by the military against their will? What about medical experimentation? I'm sure a sci-fi novel has covered it at some point.

Harry Turtledove wrote a series of short stories called A Different Flesh, speculating on what would have happened if the Americas were inhabited by austrolapithicenes.  I think he postulated two tiers of slavery: Africans in the house, hominids in the fields.


The Thursday Next series touches on the topic, lightly.

/ Big Fforde fan.
 
2013-10-22 11:40:23 AM  

RedVentrue: make me some tea: give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.

Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

[i38.photobucket.com image 700x500]

That's the wrong Jersey, and I thought the latest known Neanderthal remains were found in Spain.



You're probably right.


Also, possibly what the English Channel was like back then:
www.qpg.geog.cam.ac.uk


That would have been a pretty impressive river.
 
2013-10-22 11:55:42 AM  

liam76: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:   What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

Basque...


Most likely not even Cro-Magnons
 
2013-10-22 12:25:44 PM  
queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-10-22 12:33:30 PM  
Basques are not terribly different from other Western Europeans, genetically speaking. It used to be thought they were some wholly pre-Indo-European remnant population due to their language, but the maths simply don't work for such a proposal (said proposal being reached backwards before the advent of genetic sciences, at that).

Their male lines are heavily R1b, which are relative new-comers to Europe, dominating Latin, Celtic and West Germanic populations. If you're looking for more "native" Europeans, look at haplogroup I.

Their female lines are pretty much the same, with perhaps a remnant of a peculiar U lineage that might actually line up with the "ancient European" theory...this, along with the remnants of matrifocal traditions in Basque culture, would suggest to me (and others) that, essentially, Basques are what happens when Indo-European men roll in and, contrary to much of the rest of the continent (an exception that demonstrates the rule?), "let" the women keep on keeping on with their prior culture/language instead of imposing their own.

There aren't many other explanations; R1b is too young in Western Europe to have been there since the last Ice Age, and its highest variance occurs in Central/Southwest Asia, illustrating a cline from Eurasia to Western Europe of oldest to youngest.
 
2013-10-22 12:36:42 PM  
They haven't gone anywhere. They're us.
 
2013-10-22 01:35:58 PM  

Khazar-Khum: They haven't gone anywhere. They're us.


AKA I'm Not Fat, I'm Big-Boned Theory
 
2013-10-22 01:55:32 PM  

Khazar-Khum: They haven't gone anywhere. They're us.


Not really, no. we have a common ancestor, but one is not of the other. Just like you aren't a descendant of your brother.
 
2013-10-22 02:13:13 PM  

nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.


img.fark.net
 
2013-10-22 02:24:46 PM  

Suede head: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

[img.fark.net image 650x903]


And they are stealing little human children to raise, or eat.
 
2013-10-22 03:05:22 PM  

Suede head: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

[img.fark.net image 650x903]


All the mass that should have gone into his frontal lobe ended up in his chins.

/needs moar eyebrow ridge
 
2013-10-22 03:37:44 PM  

give me doughnuts: RedVentrue: make me some tea: give me doughnuts: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

During the last ice-age, I doubt it was an island.

Correct. The land back then extended all the way out to the edge of the continental shelf. To this day the water is only about 100-200' deep all the way out to the edge.

[i38.photobucket.com image 700x500]

That's the wrong Jersey, and I thought the latest known Neanderthal remains were found in Spain.


You're probably right.


Also, possibly what the English Channel was like back then:
[www.qpg.geog.cam.ac.uk image 500x375]


That would have been a pretty impressive river.


I wonder how many paleo artifact sites are buried in the mud of the Channel?

Facetious_Speciest: RedVentrue

I've read that Neanderthal DNA has been found in our genome, in people living today. People who don't live in Africa, anyway.

This is truish. If you get yourself tested by a genomics company, they can even tell you how much (3% for myself, as an example).

There's another theory that's being bandied about, though, suggesting that rather than non-Africans having Neandertal ancestry, the common ancestors of what would be non-Africans and Neandertals diverged from the population that would later become sub-Saharan peoples before differentiating into Neandertals and non-African sapiens. In this model, the Neandertal ancestry isn't so much direct ancestry from interbreeding as it is echoes of our common ancestry before the second split.

Either way, our genetic history is far more complicated than we used to think. The Neandertal stuff has gotten so much attention because most genetic testing occurs amongst Western Europeans, but there are signs that other archaic human populations interbred with sapiens sapiens as well...Denisovans in some Asians and Polynesians, and now we're seeing suggestions that the sub-Saharan populations might have bred with their own off-shoot hominid group as well.

Apparently, it was one big prehistoric farkfest back then.


Ya get it where ya can get it.

There's a reason why teenage boys act the way they do.
 
2013-10-22 03:52:15 PM  

Suede head: nekom: It would certainly make sense that the last pocket would be on an isolated island.

Interesting thought experiment:  What if Neanderthals were still alive today?  We'd have not a separate race, but a separate species of intelligent(ish?) beasts.

[img.fark.net image 650x903]


170 cm tall neanderthals??
 
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