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(Time)   French president tells President Obama over the phone that has been talking about the NSA spying report with his staff - Obama replies, I know, we heard   (swampland.time.com) divider line 95
    More: Obvious, President Obama, NSA, French presidents  
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4775 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2013 at 10:44 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



95 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-22 10:01:26 AM
The French are pissed because the NSA is like the DGSE?
 
2013-10-22 10:45:40 AM
Obama asked him if he wanted to buy some nude photos of his wife.
 
2013-10-22 10:45:40 AM

dittybopper: The French are pissed because the NSA is like the DGSE?


Is the moral of the story 'We can spy on our own people, so we don't need your help'?
 
2013-10-22 10:46:12 AM
SacreBOOOM!
 
2013-10-22 10:47:17 AM
BadumdumTish!
 
2013-10-22 10:48:27 AM
politicalblindspot.com
 
2013-10-22 10:49:49 AM
Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?
 
2013-10-22 10:49:50 AM
"Sorry about your feelings and all.  We're going to keep spying on you.  Later!"
 
2013-10-22 10:51:37 AM
That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.
 
2013-10-22 10:54:54 AM

Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?


That's the truth.

Where can I get a talking phone?
 
2013-10-22 10:54:59 AM
but who was phone?
 
2013-10-22 10:57:06 AM
I expect my government to spy on other governments an citizens of other countries (even supposed allies). It would not be doing its job if it didn't .

What I don't is incompetence so that they get caught doing it.


More importantly they should not be spying on Americans without benefit of a warrant.


Suck it France, remember the Quasi-War
 
2013-10-22 10:57:43 AM

dittybopper: The French are pissed because the NSA is like the DGSE?


No kidding. The French have been competing with the US and China to tap fiber cables in the Pacific, and internally their record is abyssmal.
 
2013-10-22 10:59:00 AM
I hate when my phone talks about the NSA...
 
2013-10-22 10:59:00 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.


Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.
 
2013-10-22 10:59:50 AM

Milk D: but who was phone?

 
2013-10-22 11:02:10 AM
I wonder what the French are doing right now to spy on Americans. Because, come on, EVERYONE spies on everyone. If you say they don't, you either a fool or a spy.
 
2013-10-22 11:04:37 AM
Staying abreast of imported cheese and champagne snafus is Priority One, mon petit cherie.
 
2013-10-22 11:05:21 AM
This thread is hooked on phoneics.
 
2013-10-22 11:08:49 AM
I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.
 
2013-10-22 11:12:14 AM

Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.


ok then what about Vietnam?  Where we were asked to help the French with there issue in "French Inco-China"?
 
2013-10-22 11:14:32 AM

mekki: I wonder what the French are doing right now to spy on Americans. Because, come on, EVERYONE spies on everyone. If you say they don't, you either a fool or a spy.


Exactly, you think the US government spying on you is bad? You should see how much the Chinese government spy's on you.
 
2013-10-22 11:17:41 AM

Quinzy: Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.

ok then what about Vietnam?  Where we were asked to help the French with there issue in "French Inco-China"?


Nah, in WWII we actively went out of our way to help the French.

During the American Revolution the French were not really interest in helping the Americans so much as   farking with British. They would have fought with the British navy over any pretext and the American revolution was just convenient.

Still one up on the French, but who cares as they are French. Wanna be empire builders who never managed to graduate to the big leagues.
 
2013-10-22 11:18:25 AM

Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.


We were even after WW I.  They still owe us for WW II.
 
2013-10-22 11:20:16 AM
Are we calling them Freedom Fries again?
 
2013-10-22 11:24:49 AM

paygun: Are we calling them Freedom Fries again?


I think the anger is in the other direction this time. Not sure if there is an American food the French can re-name (also don't really think that they have as many stupid, childish citizens who get fired up by nonsense propaganda like the Freedom Fries adventure)
 
2013-10-22 11:25:24 AM
I would like to file a FOIA request for Carla Bruni's sexting pics.
 
2013-10-22 11:25:42 AM
I assume subby meant to insert  'he' between 'that' and 'has'.  Or, perhaps, phones in France have become sentient / AI's, and the phone the French president was using to speak to Obama was earlier briefing members of the French government.

So, whats the app for doing that? I'll assume it was an Android phone.
 
2013-10-22 11:26:15 AM

Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.


Actually, they owe us.

They helped us only because it was in their selfish interests at the time, then turned around and got all belligerent with us a few years later (The Quasi-War).  Subsequently, we've done the following:

1. Helped them end WWI by sending troops to die in France.
2. Helped them end WWII by sending troops to die in France.
3. Helped them out of Indochina by sending troops to die in Vietnam.

They are now like the biatch who did something nice for you a while back, so you take her on several dates where she orders the most expensive thing on the menu but never puts out.  At some point, you recognize that you're being used.
 
2013-10-22 11:26:42 AM
While everyone spies on everyone, the French have major ties in the Middle East, were gross violators of the Oil for Food program, and profited greatly while supporting Saddam Hussein's regime.  With regard to spying and trust and unspoken diplomatic constraints, France being violated was far beyond well-deserved.

/We keep playing those mind games..together
 
2013-10-22 11:27:25 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.


So sick of this trope. If it weren't for Russian Winters, Germany would be speaking French.

/ that Corsican fella, y'know?
 
2013-10-22 11:30:46 AM
There's nothing that has happened in the past between France and America that justifies widespread surveillance of civilians.  Pretty sure there's nothing ever happened anywhere ever that actually justifies widespread surveillance of civilians for any purpose.  At least that's the idea behind a free and just society.
 
2013-10-22 11:31:45 AM
 Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.

Actually, they owe us.

They helped us only because it was in their selfish interests at the time, then turned around and got all belligerent with us a few years later (The Quasi-War).  Subsequently, we've done the following:

1. Helped them end WWI by sending troops to die in France.
2. Helped them end WWII by sending troops to die in France.
3. Helped them out of Indochina by sending troops to die in Vietnam.

They are now like the biatch who did something nice for you a while back, so you take her on several dates where she orders the most expensive thing on the menu but never puts out.  At some point, you recognize that you're being used.


Yeeaaah, because the USA absolutely had no interrest in going to war in WWII.

Like, I don't know...

THE FACT THAT FARKING GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE USA AFTER PEARL HARBOR !!!!

Geeze, it's not exactly like keeping to the sidelines was a possibility for you guys.
 
2013-10-22 11:34:50 AM

jankyboy: Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?

That's the truth.

Where can I get a talking phone?



Target or Walmartsavvyauntie.com
 
2013-10-22 11:35:20 AM
 
2013-10-22 11:36:17 AM

padraig: THE FACT THAT FARKING GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE USA AFTER PEARL HARBOR !!!!


We were in an actual undeclared shooting war against Germany prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
 
2013-10-22 11:47:53 AM
I've worked in France for the USG and I have to laugh at them calling us out...given what i've seen and experienced.
 
2013-10-22 11:54:52 AM

OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.


Yeah, that happened on DAY ONE after Bush left. Wake up.
 
2013-10-22 12:04:37 PM
qui etait phone?
 
2013-10-22 12:07:42 PM

monoski: paygun: Are we calling them Freedom Fries again?

I think the anger is in the other direction this time. Not sure if there is an American food the French can re-name (also don't really think that they have as many stupid, childish citizens who get fired up by nonsense propaganda like the Freedom Fries adventure)


Agreed. The French probably call French Fries something stupid like "chips".
 
2013-10-22 12:09:37 PM

special20: OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.

Yeah, that happened on DAY ONE after Bush left. Wake up.


Obama is a lot more hip. Beyond that, they're both figureheads.
 
2013-10-22 12:10:24 PM
We are all indebted to the U.S.S.R. and the Red Army as they did about 80-90% of the fighting during WW2
 
2013-10-22 12:10:58 PM

Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?


WTF is wrong with that sentence?
Is it short a verb?
One too many?
 
2013-10-22 12:11:15 PM

OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.


Remember, it's not criminal when WE do it.
 
2013-10-22 12:19:01 PM
Nick Nostril

special20: OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.

Yeah, that happened on DAY ONE after Bush left. Wake up.

Obama is a lot more hip. Beyond that, they're both figuredickheads.
Fify

AngryDragon

OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.

Remember, it's not criminal when WE do it.
Exactly what obamabots have been claiming since the moment zero took the oath of office.
 
2013-10-22 12:19:16 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.


If it wasn't for France we would still be speaking Eng... oh wait.
 
2013-10-22 12:20:14 PM

jankyboy: Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?

That's the truth.

Where can I get a talking phone?


Thank God it wasn't just me
 
2013-10-22 12:24:38 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: I've worked in France for the USG and I have to laugh at them calling us out...given what i've seen and experienced.


THIS.

As a certified Francophile (I like touching young, small baguettes), France has a worse record on industrial espionage.
 
2013-10-22 12:24:49 PM
padraig:
Like, I don't know...

THE FACT THAT FARKING GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE USA AFTER PEARL HARBOR !!!!

Geeze, it's not exactly like keeping to the sidelines was a possibility for you guys.


Shh...only nerds pay attention in history class.  We don't need no stinking facts.
 
2013-10-22 12:44:04 PM

FarkedOver: We are all indebted to the U.S.S.R. and the Red Army as they did about 80-90% of the fighting during WW2


Then the USSR should thank the US, because without Lend-Lease, it's doubtful that they could have been anywhere near as effective as they were.  Given their industrial capacity, it would have been a replay of 1914-1917 without the US supplying them with things like aircraft, locomotives, and most especially trucks.  Something like 2/3rds of the Soviet Army's trucks by the end of the war were built in Detroit.
 
2013-10-22 12:46:15 PM

dittybopper: Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.

Actually, they owe us.

They helped us only because it was in their selfish interests at the time, then turned around and got all belligerent with us a few years later (The Quasi-War).  Subsequently, we've done the following:

1. Helped them end WWI by sending troops to die in France.
2. Helped them end WWII by sending troops to die in France.
3. Helped them out of Indochina by sending troops to die in Vietnam.

They are now like the biatch who did something nice for you a while back, so you take her on several dates where she orders the most expensive thing on the menu but never puts out.  At some point, you recognize that you're being used.


Claiming French motives in the revolutionary war were selfish and so it doesn't count, but that somehow they owe you for Vietnam is crap. US involvement in Vietnam was never to help the French.

The US was neutral, then you got afraid of communism, then you funded the French for a while, then there was that peace deal, then you had your guy depose their guy and went on to have a whole load of fun testing the idea that "The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner" then you ran away.

A few CIA pilots aside, all the American casualties were in a conflict that America and you South Vietnamese business partners started.

Also, Korea.
 
2013-10-22 12:48:09 PM
www.instablogsimages.com

Mon dieu!
 
2013-10-22 12:57:25 PM

dittybopper: FarkedOver: We are all indebted to the U.S.S.R. and the Red Army as they did about 80-90% of the fighting during WW2

Then the USSR should thank the US, because without Lend-Lease, it's doubtful that they could have been anywhere near as effective as they were.  Given their industrial capacity, it would have been a replay of 1914-1917 without the US supplying them with things like aircraft, locomotives, and most especially trucks.  Something like 2/3rds of the Soviet Army's trucks by the end of the war were built in Detroit.


Granted Lend-Lease was great for the Red Army war effort, but it was in no way what tipped the scales of the fight against Germany.  The man power alone is what destroyed Nazi Germany.  Even if, and this is a big if, the Nazi war machine rolled over the Red Army there would a bunch of angry communist in China willing to stomp out fascism once it arrived at their borders.

Take a look at Stalingrad.  The Germans did not have the manpower to take that city.  By the time of the Soviet counter offensive at Stalingrad they had 1 million more men at their disposal than the Nazis did.  The Americans did not win World War 2 and did not put in half the effort that the Soviet people did.  They paid for that victory in blood.
 
2013-10-22 01:02:33 PM

mekki: I wonder what the French are doing right now to spy on Americans. Because, come on, EVERYONE spies on everyone. If you say they don't, you either a fool or a spy.


Their just jelly because so much of www runs through US servers and not French servers so they don't has as much opportunity to spy on us as we do on them.
 
2013-10-22 01:10:57 PM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: Claiming French motives in the revolutionary war were selfish and so it doesn't count, but that somehow they owe you for Vietnam is crap. US involvement in Vietnam was never to help the French.


Seems you missed a bit in the middle, there.

France is America's friend only to the extent that it helps France.  If it involves some sort of cost to France, she's not really our friend.
 
2013-10-22 01:20:18 PM

monoski: paygun: Are we calling them Freedom Fries again?

I think the anger is in the other direction this time. Not sure if there is an American food the French can re-name (also don't really think that they have as many stupid, childish citizens who get fired up by nonsense propaganda like the Freedom Fries adventure)


in France, American Beer shall now be called Surrender Beer
 
2013-10-22 01:22:43 PM
"The White House says both presidents agreed they should continue diplomatic discussions about the issue."

I love it when both sides can get together, discuss an issue, then agree to do fark-all about it.
 
2013-10-22 01:36:17 PM

FarkedOver: Granted Lend-Lease was great for the Red Army war effort, but it was in no way what tipped the scales of the fight against Germany.  The man power alone is what destroyed Nazi Germany


The problem is that you have to feed that manpower, which the Soviet Union often couldn't do even aside from the war.  Consider that the Germans occupied much of the Soviet Union's "bread basket" region.

Then, you have to get the manpower into action.  Which means you have to transport them from where they live, to the front lines, and in some cases literally nearly half-way across the World, several thousand miles.  That means locomotives, trucks, jeeps, transport aircraft, and even things like boots and uniforms.  Without the ability to move those troops, the Soviet Union couldn't have fought as effectively as it did.

Lend-Lease allowed the Soviet Union to produce more tanks and guns than it ever could have simply because the US was supplying much of their other military and civilian needs.   So if you subtract the economic help, the USSR can't produce nearly as many tanks, guns, ammunition, etc., as it actually did, and that can only help the Germans.

All told, we sent the Soviet Union $9.5 billion worth of goods.  In today's dollars, that's $123 billion dollar's worth.  And we started doing it months before Germany declared war on the United States.

There is really no way the Soviet Union could have lasted against the Germans without the US propping them up economically.  They had the manpower, but not the ability to feed, cloth, transport, *AND* arm all of that manpower.
 
2013-10-22 01:38:23 PM

Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?


large quantities of this
 
2013-10-22 01:38:23 PM

Itstoearly: monoski: paygun: Are we calling them Freedom Fries again?

I think the anger is in the other direction this time. Not sure if there is an American food the French can re-name (also don't really think that they have as many stupid, childish citizens who get fired up by nonsense propaganda like the Freedom Fries adventure)

in France, American Beer shall now be called Surrender Beer


Actually, in France, is there anything more derogatory than the adjective "American"?
 
2013-10-22 01:41:03 PM

inner ted: Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?

large quantities of this


guardianlv.com

What large Kwan-titties might look like.

/For smaller values of "large".
 
2013-10-22 01:53:14 PM

Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.


WWI, They still owe us for WWII and lets not forget Vietnam.
 
2013-10-22 01:56:58 PM

Quinzy: Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.

ok then what about Vietnam?  Where we were asked to help the French with there issue in "French Inco-China"?


Oh wait. Technically speaking the French government that helped us was overthrown by the French Revolution.  So we owe these guys nothing.  Or heck, they owe us for not coming to the aid of the French government that helped us.
 
2013-10-22 01:59:07 PM

FarkedOver: dittybopper: FarkedOver: We are all indebted to the U.S.S.R. and the Red Army as they did about 80-90% of the fighting during WW2

Then the USSR should thank the US, because without Lend-Lease, it's doubtful that they could have been anywhere near as effective as they were.  Given their industrial capacity, it would have been a replay of 1914-1917 without the US supplying them with things like aircraft, locomotives, and most especially trucks.  Something like 2/3rds of the Soviet Army's trucks by the end of the war were built in Detroit.

Granted Lend-Lease was great for the Red Army war effort, but it was in no way what tipped the scales of the fight against Germany.  The man power alone is what destroyed Nazi Germany.  Even if, and this is a big if, the Nazi war machine rolled over the Red Army there would a bunch of angry communist in China willing to stomp out fascism once it arrived at their borders.

Take a look at Stalingrad.  The Germans did not have the manpower to take that city.  By the time of the Soviet counter offensive at Stalingrad they had 1 million more men at their disposal than the Nazis did.  The Americans did not win World War 2 and did not put in half the effort that the Soviet people did.  They paid for that victory in blood.


Do you think that Allied bombing campaigns from the west helped ease the pressure on the Soviet Union?  Between the lost equipment (guns, armor, aircraft, artillery, etc), the lost industrial capacity, and the equipment diverted towards defensive purposes, do you think it made a sizable dent in Germany's war-waging capability in the Soviet Union?  Or was it a helpful distraction at best?
 
2013-10-22 01:59:20 PM

dittybopper: The problem is that you have to feed that manpower, which the Soviet Union often couldn't do even aside from the war. Consider that the Germans occupied much of the Soviet Union's "bread basket" region.

Then, you have to get the manpower into action. Which means you have to transport them from where they live, to the front lines, and in some cases literally nearly half-way across the World, several thousand miles. That means locomotives, trucks, jeeps, transport aircraft, and even things like boots and uniforms. Without the ability to move those troops, the Soviet Union couldn't have fought as effectively as it did.

Lend-Lease allowed the Soviet Union to produce more tanks and guns than it ever could have simply because the US was supplying much of their other military and civilian needs. So if you subtract the economic help, the USSR can't produce nearly as many tanks, guns, ammunition, etc., as it actually did, and that can only help the Germans.

All told, we sent the Soviet Union $9.5 billion worth of goods. In today's dollars, that's $123 billion dollar's worth. And we started doing it months before Germany declared war on the United States.

There is really no way the Soviet Union could have lasted against the Germans without the US propping them up economically. They had the manpower, but not the ability to feed, cloth, transport, *AND* arm all of that manpower.


So you believe that without Lend-Lease the USSR would have been destroyed?   Given the fact that the USSR had moved heavy industry east, still had their oil fields and out produced Germany in Tanks?  Ok.
 
2013-10-22 02:00:43 PM

The Green Intern: Do you think that Allied bombing campaigns from the west helped ease the pressure on the Soviet Union? Between the lost equipment (guns, armor, aircraft, artillery, etc), the lost industrial capacity, and the equipment diverted towards defensive purposes, do you think it made a sizable dent in Germany's war-waging capability in the Soviet Union? Or was it a helpful distraction at best?


Helpful distraction, honestly.  Take a look at the numbers 80% of the fighting against Nazi Germany was by the USSR.  The Soviets would have eventually defeated them.  It was just a matter of time.  The Soviets had the numbers and the resources.
 
2013-10-22 02:02:24 PM

Nick Nostril: special20: OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.

Yeah, that happened on DAY ONE after Bush left. Wake up.

Obama is a lot more hip. Beyond that, they're both figureheads.


Ok, but the figurehead we have now allows Americans to roam freely in Europe without having to glue a Canadian flag to their backpacks. Speak to which that you know.
 
2013-10-22 02:04:03 PM

padraig: Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.

Actually, they owe us.

They helped us only because it was in their selfish interests at the time, then turned around and got all belligerent with us a few years later (The Quasi-War).  Subsequently, we've done the following:

1. Helped them end WWI by sending troops to die in France.
2. Helped them end WWII by sending troops to die in France.
3. Helped them out of Indochina by sending troops to die in Vietnam.

They are now like the biatch who did something nice for you a while back, so you take her on several dates where she orders the most expensive thing on the menu but never puts out.  At some point, you recognize that you're being used.

Yeeaaah, because the USA absolutely had no interrest in going to war in WWII.

Like, I don't know...

THE FACT THAT FARKING GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE USA AFTER PEARL HARBOR !!!!

Geeze, it's not exactly like keeping to the sidelines was a possibility for you guys.


Your bold font exposes you as a bitter Frenchman.
 
2013-10-22 02:10:27 PM

The Green Intern: Do you think that Allied bombing campaigns from the west helped ease the pressure on the Soviet Union? Between the lost equipment (guns, armor, aircraft, artillery, etc), the lost industrial capacity, and the equipment diverted towards defensive purposes, do you think it made a sizable dent in Germany's war-waging capability in the Soviet Union? Or was it a helpful distraction at best?


Think of it this way: There would have been no western front without the Red Army.
 
2013-10-22 02:16:52 PM

FarkedOver: So you believe that without Lend-Lease the USSR would have been destroyed?   Given the fact that the USSR had moved heavy industry east, still had their oil fields and out produced Germany in Tanks?  Ok.

 

Destroyed is a loaded word.  I think they would have had to pull back to the Urals, and would have had a much more limited capability to strike back at Nazi forces.

Do you know why they out-produced Germany in tanks?  Because they didn't have to make anywhere near as many trucks or locomotives because the US was supplying them.  If the USSR had to supply all of it's own transport, the production of things like guns and tanks would have been much lower.  Even ignoring the factory capacity, just the diversion of raw materials like steel to the production of trucks, locomotives, and rolling stock and away from things like tanks, artillery, and small arms would have been devastating to the Soviet Union.

Do you know how that oil got from the oil fields to their tanks at the front?  Largely by US-built trucks and trains.

Hell, we sent them 21 million uniforms, and the Red Army comprised about 34 million soldiers in total during the entire war.  So in a sense, we clothed 60% of the Red Army.
 
2013-10-22 02:17:16 PM

OnlyM3: I'm so glad this president is fulfilling the libtard promise of restoring the reputation of the USA with our Euro allies.


So you think this started with Obama and not after 9/11/ The Patriot Act?

Your Troll Fu is weak. 1/10
 
2013-10-22 02:21:37 PM

FarkedOver: Granted Lend-Lease was great for the Red Army war effort, but it was in no way what tipped the scales of the fight against Germany.  The man power alone is what destroyed Nazi Germany.  Even if, and this is a big if, the Nazi war machine rolled over the Red Army there would a bunch of angry communist in China willing to stomp out fascism once it arrived at their borders.

Take a look at Stalingrad.  The Germans did not have the manpower to take that city.  By the time of the Soviet counter offensive at Stalingrad they had 1 million more men at their disposal than the Nazis did.  The Americans did not win World War 2 and did not put in half the effort that the Soviet people did.  They paid for that victory in blood.


It's cute that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, but say things with an air of authority.
3/10
 
2013-10-22 02:22:06 PM
Watcha lookin' at there Hollande?
img.fark.net
 
2013-10-22 02:23:28 PM

special20: FarkedOver: Granted Lend-Lease was great for the Red Army war effort, but it was in no way what tipped the scales of the fight against Germany.  The man power alone is what destroyed Nazi Germany.  Even if, and this is a big if, the Nazi war machine rolled over the Red Army there would a bunch of angry communist in China willing to stomp out fascism once it arrived at their borders.

Take a look at Stalingrad.  The Germans did not have the manpower to take that city.  By the time of the Soviet counter offensive at Stalingrad they had 1 million more men at their disposal than the Nazis did.  The Americans did not win World War 2 and did not put in half the effort that the Soviet people did.  They paid for that victory in blood.

It's cute that you don't know what the hell you're talking about, but say things with an air of authority.
3/10


Well go on, tell us how america won the war all by it's lonesome.
 
2013-10-22 02:24:33 PM

dittybopper: Do you know how that oil got from the oil fields to their tanks at the front? Largely by US-built trucks and trains.

Hell, we sent them 21 million uniforms, and the Red Army comprised about 34 million soldiers in total during the entire war. So in a sense, we clothed 60% of the Red Army.


I guess America had that luxury while it didn't fight.
 
2013-10-22 02:37:40 PM
Claiming French motives in the revolutionary war were selfish and so it doesn't count, but that somehow they owe you for Vietnam is crap. US involvement in Vietnam was never to help the French.

The US was neutral, then you got afraid of communism, then you funded the French for a while, then there was that peace deal, then you had your guy depose their guy and went on to have a whole load of fun testing the idea that "The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner" then you ran away.


Not that simple.  We were neutral because we were allies of France but had also kind of promised the Vietnamese help with that whole independence thing if they help spank the Japanese.  We were basically assing around trying to get them to get along and thus avoid having to pick sides.  The Vietnamese got feed up and asked us for guns so they could take care of the French themselves.  When we said no give it more time they went to the Chinese to ask for guns.  The Chinese said sure but only if you're communist.  Ho Chi Minh crossed his fingers behind his back and said of course we're communist. He had a communist education but he wasn't all that communist and didn't really like the Chinese.  He would have taken guns from whoever was willing to give them to him.  We were stuck between supporting two borderline communist regimes and we chose to support the white guys hoping they wouldn't be quite as communist. Then the French decided it was too hard and took their guns and went home.
 
2013-10-22 02:49:15 PM

FarkedOver: dittybopper: Do you know how that oil got from the oil fields to their tanks at the front? Largely by US-built trucks and trains.

Hell, we sent them 21 million uniforms, and the Red Army comprised about 34 million soldiers in total during the entire war. So in a sense, we clothed 60% of the Red Army.

I guess America had that luxury while it didn't fight.


Actually, America did that simultaneously with fighting.  Not only did we supply the Soviet Union, we also supplied the United Kingdom, *AND* ourselves, starting in 1941 with the Soviet Union and continuing through the defeat of Japan in 1945.

Take the US out of the equation, and the UK and USSR have a much, much, *MUCH* tougher time defeating Germany, and in fact, it might not even have been possible.
 
2013-10-22 02:56:48 PM

dittybopper: Actually, America did that simultaneously with fighting. Not only did we supply the Soviet Union, we also supplied the United Kingdom, *AND* ourselves, starting in 1941 with the Soviet Union and continuing through the defeat of Japan in 1945.

Take the US out of the equation, and the UK and USSR have a much, much, *MUCH* tougher time defeating Germany, and in fact, it might not even have been possible.


Maybe for the UK.  The USSR already proved they could stop the Nazis at the Battle of Moscow (pre Lend/Lease).  If America was serious about defeating the Nazis in Europe they would have given the lions share of aid to the USSR.  The fact of the matter is the US gave the lions share of aid to the UK.  I believe the USSR only received 11% of the total Lend/Lease Aid.

Sure the US did fight, but it did the bulk of the fighting in the Pacific theater.  The USSR is most deserving of the credit of emancipating Europe from under the Nazi's thumb.  By the time the Western Theater opened up the European Theater was pretty much a done deal, it was just a matter of time.

Let's not pretend that this was free aid either, because the UK just finished paying off its WW2 to america in 2006.

Canada also had a Lend/Lease type of program.  Guess what they did? They forgave all debt.  I guess the US learned war is profitable early on.
 
2013-10-22 03:01:26 PM
During 1942, the first full year the US was engaged in hostilities during WWII, the US GDP was more than the entire Axis *COMBINED*, and in fact it was twice that of the UK and USSR.

Hell, taken as a total, the US GDP comprised almost 45% of all the major belligerent nations, Axis and Allies, combined GDP.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_ II
 
2013-10-22 03:07:46 PM

dittybopper: During 1942, the first full year the US was engaged in hostilities during WWII, the US GDP was more than the entire Axis *COMBINED*, and in fact it was twice that of the UK and USSR.

Hell, taken as a total, the US GDP comprised almost 45% of all the major belligerent nations, Axis and Allies, combined GDP.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_ II


And according to your very own citation and the charts within it the USSR out produced Germany at every turn.
 
2013-10-22 03:11:45 PM

tuna fingers: Maud Dib: Farking English, subby. Do you speak it?

WTF is wrong with that sentence?
Is it short a verb?
One too many?


He forgot a "he"....French president tells President Obama over the phone that (he) has been talking
 
2013-10-22 03:22:16 PM
How the conversation actually went:    Obama:  Dude, Snowden told on us.  Keep feigning ignorance and we'll keep sending you all those juicy conversations from your political rivals.  French President:  Ok, expect me to talk some shiat about you until it goes away.
 
2013-10-22 03:27:35 PM

FarkedOver: The USSR already proved they could stop the Nazis at the Battle of Moscow (pre Lend/Lease).


But they couldn't have sustained that.  From 1941 to 1942, Soviet GDP fell as Germany's GDP  (and war production) increased.  Without the Lend-Lease shipments from the US which started simultaneously with the beginning of the Battle of Moscow, the Soviets likely would have lost Moscow:  In March of 1943, a year and a half after the Germans attempted to take Moscow, they were still within striking distance of Moscow, and it's not likely that the Soviets could have flattened out the Rzhev salient with fewer armed and clothed troops, less fuel, less food, less ammo, and fewer trucks and tanks.

All the while, German production was ramping up while Soviet production foundered, as factories were dismantled and shipped to the Urals, or were over-run by the Germans.

As it was, it was a very near thing for the Soviets.  Without US assistance, the "ammunition famine", and actual food famines, would have just gotten worse and worse for them like it did in WWI.
 
2013-10-22 03:43:13 PM

dittybopper: FarkedOver: The USSR already proved they could stop the Nazis at the Battle of Moscow (pre Lend/Lease).

But they couldn't have sustained that.  From 1941 to 1942, Soviet GDP fell as Germany's GDP  (and war production) increased.  Without the Lend-Lease shipments from the US which started simultaneously with the beginning of the Battle of Moscow, the Soviets likely would have lost Moscow:  In March of 1943, a year and a half after the Germans attempted to take Moscow, they were still within striking distance of Moscow, and it's not likely that the Soviets could have flattened out the Rzhev salient with fewer armed and clothed troops, less fuel, less food, less ammo, and fewer trucks and tanks.

All the while, German production was ramping up while Soviet production foundered, as factories were dismantled and shipped to the Urals, or were over-run by the Germans.

As it was, it was a very near thing for the Soviets.  Without US assistance, the "ammunition famine", and actual food famines, would have just gotten worse and worse for them like it did in WWI.


I'm sorry, but the charts below list what each country produced and  the USSR out produced Germany in every land-based category.  Now why would Germany have a higher GDP?  They spent more on their Navy and A SHIAT TON more on civil defense projects (according to your citation).  The GDP isn't what should be looked at on this page, but what was produced. 

Furthermore, look at the oil productions of each country.  The USSR dwarfed Nazi oil production (The UK even more than double Nazi oil production).  Maybe if the Nazis had coal powered tanks they could have won the war.
 
2013-10-22 04:19:38 PM

FarkedOver: Well go on, tell us how america won the war all by it's lonesome.



img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-22 04:23:32 PM

Beerguy: AverageAmericanGuy: That's gratitude for you. You save their ass in WWII and they start thinking they can mouth off to us.

If it weren't for America, you'd be speaking German, froggies.

Yeah, well, if it weren't for the French Navy intercepting the British fleet during the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't be a country.

The way I see it, after WWII, we were pretty much even.


Wrong!
They got us into Vietnam and then promptly fled (in true French fashion.)
 
2013-10-22 04:24:20 PM

special20: FarkedOver: Well go on, tell us how america won the war all by it's lonesome.


[img.photobucket.com image 514x734]


Your a idiot.  This hasn't been a discussion about the pacific theater.

I'm glad there have been humanitarian heroes like the Rosenburgs and Ted Hall who decided that one country shouldn't have a monopoly on atomic power and atomic weapons.
 
2013-10-22 04:56:16 PM

Prince George: Claiming French motives in the revolutionary war were selfish and so it doesn't count, but that somehow they owe you for Vietnam is crap. US involvement in Vietnam was never to help the French.

The US was neutral, then you got afraid of communism, then you funded the French for a while, then there was that peace deal, then you had your guy depose their guy and went on to have a whole load of fun testing the idea that "The Oriental doesn't put the same high price on life as does a Westerner" then you ran away.

Not that simple.  We were neutral because we were allies of France but had also kind of promised the Vietnamese help with that whole independence thing if they help spank the Japanese.  We were basically assing around trying to get them to get along and thus avoid having to pick sides.  The Vietnamese got feed up and asked us for guns so they could take care of the French themselves.  When we said no give it more time they went to the Chinese to ask for guns.  The Chinese said sure but only if you're communist.  Ho Chi Minh crossed his fingers behind his back and said of course we're communist. He had a communist education but he wasn't all that communist and didn't really like the Chinese.  He would have taken guns from whoever was willing to give them to him.  We were stuck between supporting two borderline communist regimes and we chose to support the white guys hoping they wouldn't be quite as communist. Then the French decided it was too hard and took their guns and went home.


You start by claiming it wasn't that simple, then you pretty much just repeat my points at slightly greater length.

The French don't owe America a tupenny fark for Vietnam. You wanted to fight commies and so you did.
 
2013-10-22 04:59:08 PM

FarkedOver: special20: FarkedOver: Well go on, tell us how america won the war all by it's lonesome.


[img.photobucket.com image 514x734]

Your a idiot.  This hasn't been a discussion about the pacific theater.

I'm glad there have been humanitarian heroes like the Rosenburgs and Ted Hall who decided that one country shouldn't have a monopoly on atomic power and atomic weapons.


LOL

4/10

I give you another point for the follow through.
 
2013-10-22 05:01:51 PM
autopsybeverage


"The White House says both presidents agreed they should continue diplomatic discussions about the issue."

I love it when both sides can get together, discuss an issue, then agree to do fark-all about it.

The frog prez will feign outrage till zero gives him access to the data collected. Then both disingenuous twats will have achieved their goals and stfu.
 
2013-10-22 08:02:10 PM

FarkedOver: dittybopper: FarkedOver: The USSR already proved they could stop the Nazis at the Battle of Moscow (pre Lend/Lease).

But they couldn't have sustained that.  From 1941 to 1942, Soviet GDP fell as Germany's GDP  (and war production) increased.  Without the Lend-Lease shipments from the US which started simultaneously with the beginning of the Battle of Moscow, the Soviets likely would have lost Moscow:  In March of 1943, a year and a half after the Germans attempted to take Moscow, they were still within striking distance of Moscow, and it's not likely that the Soviets could have flattened out the Rzhev salient with fewer armed and clothed troops, less fuel, less food, less ammo, and fewer trucks and tanks.

All the while, German production was ramping up while Soviet production foundered, as factories were dismantled and shipped to the Urals, or were over-run by the Germans.

As it was, it was a very near thing for the Soviets.  Without US assistance, the "ammunition famine", and actual food famines, would have just gotten worse and worse for them like it did in WWI.

I'm sorry, but the charts below list what each country produced and  the USSR out produced Germany in every land-based category.  Now why would Germany have a higher GDP?  They spent more on their Navy and A SHIAT TON more on civil defense projects (according to your citation).  The GDP isn't what should be looked at on this page, but what was produced. 

Furthermore, look at the oil productions of each country.  The USSR dwarfed Nazi oil production (The UK even more than double Nazi oil production).  Maybe if the Nazis had coal powered tanks they could have won the war.


My point, which I've made several times in this thread, is that the *ONLY* reason the USSR could have made all those tanks and artillery pieces is because the USA was sending them large quantities of practically everything else, so they didn't *HAVE* to, for example, make as many trucks as they would have had to make otherwise, which would have taken away from the production of ordnance and munitions.
 
2013-10-23 11:10:46 AM

dittybopper: My point, which I've made several times in this thread, is that the *ONLY* reason the USSR could have made all those tanks and artillery pieces is because the USA was sending them large quantities of practically everything else, so they didn't *HAVE* to, for example, make as many trucks as they would have had to make otherwise, which would have taken away from the production of ordnance and munitions.


My point is that in total the USSR produced more trucks, tanks, artillery, weapons AND had more man power than Nazi Germany.  They would have defeated the Nazis without the 11% Lend Lease aid.  My only concession is that it would have taken longer.  The US had bigger fish to fry in the pacific.  To say victory in Europe would not have been possible without US aid is disingenuous.  To say that the UK would have been royally farked without US aid, I will give you that.  The soviets on the other hand could have done it with the US.  The fact that the US was giving out aid was just gravy, what were they going to say? Nah we got this.  Of course not. The purpose of Lend Lease was always to save Britain first and foremost.
 
2013-10-23 03:21:27 PM

FarkedOver: My point is that in total the USSR produced more trucks, tanks, artillery, weapons AND had more man power than Nazi Germany.  They would have defeated the Nazis without the 11% Lend Lease aid.  My only concession is that it would have taken longer.  The US had bigger fish to fry in the pacific.  To say victory in Europe would not have been possible without US aid is disingenuous.  To say that the UK would have been royally farked without US aid, I will give you that.  The soviets on the other hand could have done it with the US.  The fact that the US was giving out aid was just gravy, what were they going to say? Nah we got this.  Of course not. The purpose of Lend Lease was always to save Britain first and foremost.


It is kind of silly to just look at economic output as a measure for determining who would have won in n-scenarios.

Just look at the list of casualties by nation. The USSR was horribly inefficient at waging war and was also occupied with killing off millions of its own people.

In other words, it is easily conceivable that in spite of less resources the Germans could still have conquered the USSR.
 
2013-10-23 03:37:21 PM

Feepit: It is kind of silly to just look at economic output as a measure for determining who would have won in n-scenarios.

Just look at the list of casualties by nation. The USSR was horribly inefficient at waging war and was also occupied with killing off millions of its own people.

In other words, it is easily conceivable that in spite of less resources the Germans could still have conquered the USSR.


percentage wise the USSR lost 13% of it's population total.  Germany lost 10% of its total population.  Damn they were both terrible at waging an efficient war! Just look at the numbers!
 
2013-10-23 05:52:11 PM

FarkedOver: percentage wise the USSR lost 13% of it's population total. Germany lost 10% of its total population. Damn they were both terrible at waging an efficient war! Just look at the numbers!



When you put it in that light, the USSR was downright pathetic. Their population was over twice that of Germany's! How bad do you have to be at a fight to show up with twice the numbers of your enemy and walk away having suffered twice their casualties? It's like a bully's worst nightmare.
 
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