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(CNN)   Pro: New cars get better MPGs and require less gas. Con: Gas sales fund highway repair, which is lower now. Solution: Gas tax increase   (money.cnn.com) divider line 166
    More: Obvious, chamber of commerces, gas tax, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood  
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572 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Oct 2013 at 8:21 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-22 07:58:46 AM
Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.
 
2013-10-22 08:01:22 AM
Betterer solution: Just pay for roads out of the income tax (or property taxes, or excise tax, take your pick)

Even if you don't own a car I'm pretty sure you still benefit from the fact the roads exist and are maintained.
 
2013-10-22 08:05:52 AM
Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.
 
2013-10-22 08:24:09 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.


Just defund PBS and we could build roads for a million years.
 
2013-10-22 08:27:33 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


How do you account for vehicular weight? A motorcycle driving 10,000 miles does far less damage to the road than a Suburban driving 4,000 miles.
 
2013-10-22 08:28:57 AM

DarnoKonrad: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

Just defund PBS reduce income taxes to zero and we could build roads for a million years.



ATFY.

This is what conservatives really believe.
 
2013-10-22 08:30:24 AM

MmmCrime: t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.

How do you account for vehicular weight? A motorcycle driving 10,000 miles does far less damage to the road than a Suburban driving 4,000 miles.


Maybe just make it a per-ton multiplier?  So the base is $.10/mile, but then you get to multiply that by the number of tons your vehicle weighs at inspection (rounded to the nearest tenth) so lighter cars pay less?  Obviously commercial trucks would have to be calculated differently.
 
2013-10-22 08:31:20 AM
Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


Thanks, but I'll just take the higher gas taxes. Annual registrations don't pay for themselves. That means that people not only need to pay for the tax, they need to pay for the inspection as well. And then there would be people who honestly would forget to get their annual registration, and get fined for that, and people who would try to avoid paying by illegal means, like cracking open the odometer, and that already carries a hefty punishment. The US doesn't need to create any more criminals.

Gas tax? Pays for itself. Want to avoid paying the tax legally? Drive less, or drive a more efficient car. Want to avoid the tax illegally? Basically, can't do it. Government needs more revenue? Raise the tax.
 
2013-10-22 08:35:32 AM
Isn't this the conundrum we will always run into once revenue decreases?

How about using moar durable building materials?
 
2013-10-22 08:35:57 AM
There should be a per-gallon surcharge for veterans' benefits and a portrait of a fallen soldier on every gas pump, since we've fought three wars now to keep the oil flowing. Then there's that national debt thing...
 
2013-10-22 08:39:06 AM

Isitoveryet: Isn't this the conundrum we will always run into once revenue decreases?

How about using moar durable building materials?


Freeze/thaw cycle is a biatch in most of the northern US.  Concrete roads can last a long time, but winter in Michigan or Minnesota will tear them up as much as cheaper asphalt.  Unless there's some freeze-proof material I'm not aware of, summer will always be road repair season around where I live.
 
2013-10-22 08:41:18 AM

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.


All roads should be toll roads owned by private corporations.
 
2013-10-22 08:41:26 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.



Many state don't require inspections.

In our case, they were abolished because they were utterly corrupt.
 
2013-10-22 08:42:45 AM

HMS_Blinkin: MmmCrime: t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.

How do you account for vehicular weight? A motorcycle driving 10,000 miles does far less damage to the road than a Suburban driving 4,000 miles.

Maybe just make it a per-ton multiplier?  So the base is $.10/mile, but then you get to multiply that by the number of tons your vehicle weighs at inspection (rounded to the nearest tenth) so lighter cars pay less?  Obviously commercial trucks would have to be calculated differently.


Just raise the gas tax. A person who drives a heavy vehicle and puts lots of wear on roads will pay more in taxes because they use more gas. A person that drives a shiat load and puts more wear on roads will  pay more taxes because they use more gas. A person who drives a motorcycle less than 50 miles per week and puts very little wear on roads and will pay less in taxes because they use less gas.

Every single person that purchases a good or service delivered by a gasoline powered vehicle will pay their share of the gas tax in the price of the good or service.
 
2013-10-22 08:43:49 AM

Muta: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

All roads should be toll roads owned by private corporations.


Funny, that douche-bag governor from PA was on TV this morning saying the same thing.
 
2013-10-22 08:43:50 AM

pueblonative: DarnoKonrad: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

Just defund PBS reduce income taxes to zero and we could build roads for a million years.


ATFY.

This is what conservatives really believe.


Are they screaming yet about higher gas taxes being jerb-killers because small business jerb-creators use trucks a lot?

DNRTFA
 
hej
2013-10-22 08:46:47 AM
ImOkWithThis.jpg
 
2013-10-22 08:49:55 AM
It's also regressive as all hell...
 
2013-10-22 08:50:51 AM
Or do like Virginia: Tax hybrids, eliminate gas taxes, and increase the general sales tax.
 
2013-10-22 08:51:07 AM
Increasing the gas tax is exactly the right thing to do.  Besides funding road workof which we need a lot, more expensive gas encourages even more conservation.  Less dependence on oil means less leverage Russia, Saudi, Iraq, and Venezuela have on us.  Less climate change, too, without an unworkable carbon tax.

Maybe avoid Oil War III in the bargain.
 
2013-10-22 08:52:04 AM

monoski: Muta: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

All roads should be toll roads owned by private corporations.

Funny, that douche-bag governor from PA was on TV this morning saying the same thing.


Name one way that he's wrong, you can't! Roads equal freedom, and driving is our constitutional RIGHT. So why is the government getting involved in roads anyways? KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OUT OF OUR FEDERAL HIGHWAY SYSTEM!
 
2013-10-22 08:53:25 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


What inspection?
 
2013-10-22 08:55:58 AM

ProdigalSigh: It's also regressive as all hell...


How so? If you drive more you pay more. It's a tax that is easily avoidable. If you don't want to pay less road taxes use less gas. There are many options for using less gas.

A regressive road tax would be a flat fee for every vehicle. A poor person that can only afford enough gas to drive 100 per week would pay the same as the arsehole suburbanite who drives a gas guzzler by himself on his 80 mile daily commute.
 
2013-10-22 08:56:58 AM

Karac: t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.

What inspection?


Smog check is a kind of an inspection.
 
2013-10-22 09:00:11 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


Only if states get rid of toll roads.  But think about the biatch it would be to travel to another state:

Ok sir, welcome to Florida, please fill out this Odometer form here at the border - keep the receipt when you report back so we can tax you, then keep that receipt so you can deduct the mileage from your home state.  All to maintain the roads sir/maam.  We'll be filing your comings and goings in our large government database.  In fact, skip it and get this electronic device to do it automatically for you - its the future.

/I like the idea,
//But how much privacy would it invade?
///I'm starting to like toll booths more again.
 
2013-10-22 09:02:12 AM

max_pooper: ProdigalSigh: It's also regressive as all hell...

How so? If you drive more you pay more. It's a tax that is easily avoidable. If you don't want to pay less road taxes use less gas. There are many options for using less gas.

A regressive road tax would be a flat fee for every vehicle. A poor person that can only afford enough gas to drive 100 per week would pay the same as the arsehole suburbanite who drives a gas guzzler by himself on his 80 mile daily commute.


The tax is a sales tax, which essentially is regressive.  And if you can afford a more fuel-efficient, perhaps even a  hybrid car, you pay less.  And coming from an area where public transportation is essentially shiat, I dispute the whole "there are many options for using less gas". Especially for the poor and the working poor.
 
2013-10-22 09:05:45 AM
You know what I like about this? Modern conservatives have a philosophical conundrum: if they pay less in taxes, they're burning less gas, and, in doing so, helping the environment.

Lower taxes? It's the "green" thing to do.
 
2013-10-22 09:06:30 AM
The tax is currently 18.4 cents a gallon, if I understood the article.  And has been at that rate since 1993.  So even if that tax doubles (an extremely unlikely scenario) it would be 36.8 cents a gallon.  But the article mentions a poll that two-thirds of Americans oppose a hike to 20 cents a gallon, or 1.6 cents per gallon more, or about a quarter for an average tank of gas.

A quarter.

To put this in perspective, estimates are that the shutdown cost $24 billion.  That's about $80 for every man, woman and child in the country.  Or about $1.50 per week, for a year, for every man, woman and child.

Then ask people what they think about the condition of their local roads and you here, "Terrible!  A disgrace!  Why don't they do something?"

Nose, face, spite.

I'm trying to remember...what happened to gas prices during the Iraq Murder Party, when we were told that oil prices would plummet and the war would pay for itself?

The good news here is that the sane right is actually proposing a sane response on this issue, and the sane sane left is in agreement.  I can't wait to hear what the teabaggers think of it.
 
2013-10-22 09:07:32 AM

monoski: Muta:

All roads should be toll roads owned by private corporations.

Funny, that douche-bag governor from PA was on TV this morning saying the same thing.


Wow, I was trying to say the dumbest thing I could.
 
2013-10-22 09:09:28 AM
This is old news.  The last time we talked about this mess, the fark community basically decided on a 'user' tax based on mileage per year, adjusted for weight tonnage in the case of truckers hauling stuff across the country via the highway system.

Basically, you pay a certain small amount per mile instead of paying through gas taxes.
 
2013-10-22 09:11:32 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


Why do you hate poor people?  Surely there is a way to pin the increase on rich people.
 
2013-10-22 09:11:34 AM

t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.


This would eliminate an incentive to have people drive fuel efficient vehicles. We should be taxing people who damage the economy and environment and using that money to ameliorate the burden on people who use less fossil fuel.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-10-22 09:11:55 AM
I don't mind a gas tax in principle, but I object to the vision of drivers as rolling wallets which is how most politicians and transport activists think of them.
 
2013-10-22 09:14:47 AM

Muta: monoski: Muta:

All roads should be toll roads owned by private corporations.

Funny, that douche-bag governor from PA was on TV this morning saying the same thing.

Wow, I was trying to say the dumbest thing I could.


Corbett really wants tolls on I-80 in PA but if his true fantasy would be to sell the highways to private corporations, take the bundle of cash and eliminate a lot of the state debt then let the drivers go on to realize that a for profit corp will be getting the money from them. State liquor stores are well on their way to the same fate right now.
 
2013-10-22 09:15:51 AM
Funny how nothing ever costs less.
 
2013-10-22 09:20:36 AM
You know, I can understand conservatives who disagree fundamentally with paying taxes to fund social welfare spending.  I disagree with them, but I understand the philosophy.

However, I just don't understand people who oppose taxes to pay for vital infrastructure.  Without our transportation and electrical infrastructure, this country crumbles, and then all the money you save on taxes won't do you much good.
 
2013-10-22 09:20:51 AM
How about we just start taxing those damn big rigs more, since they cause the lion's share of damage to roads anyway?
 
2013-10-22 09:24:11 AM
Tax increase for sure.

...or the country crumbles.
 
2013-10-22 09:25:58 AM

pueblonative: DarnoKonrad: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

Just defund PBS reduce income taxes to zero and we could build roads for a million years.


ATFY.

This is what conservatives really believe.


Liberals actually believe this is what conservatives believe.
 
2013-10-22 09:27:11 AM

monoski: Corbett really wants tolls on I-80 in PA but if his true fantasy would be to sell the highways to private corporations, take the bundle of cash and eliminate a lot of the state debt then let the drivers go on to realize that a for profit corp will be getting the money from them.


What typically happens is they sell the road for less than it is worth to please some campaign donor (they wouldn't buy it if it were fairly priced).  The state is able to paydown the debt without raising taxes or cutting services.  Since they don't cut services and nor raise taxes, the debt comes back and the state no longer has the asset of the road.  Since the private company owns the road, they're able to raise tolls higher than what you would have paid in taxes to maintain it.  The result is the people of the state are worse off.
 
2013-10-22 09:28:27 AM

pueblonative: max_pooper: ProdigalSigh: It's also regressive as all hell...

How so? If you drive more you pay more. It's a tax that is easily avoidable. If you don't want to pay less road taxes use less gas. There are many options for using less gas.

A regressive road tax would be a flat fee for every vehicle. A poor person that can only afford enough gas to drive 100 per week would pay the same as the arsehole suburbanite who drives a gas guzzler by himself on his 80 mile daily commute.

The tax is a sales tax, which essentially is regressive.  And if you can afford a more fuel-efficient, perhaps even a  hybrid car, you pay less.  And coming from an area where public transportation is essentially shiat, I dispute the whole "there are many options for using less gas". Especially for the poor and the working poor.


A sales tax can be avoided by not purchasing the good that has the tax. There are in fact many options for using less gas that don't require public transportation such as carpooling, planning and combining trips, walking or riding a bike. A person who says they can't reduce the amount of gasoline they use is usually lazy.
 
2013-10-22 09:28:34 AM

Mrbogey: pueblonative: DarnoKonrad: Eddie Adams from Torrance: Taxes are theft and investing in infrastructure is socialism.

Just defund PBS reduce income taxes to zero and we could build roads for a million years.


ATFY.

This is what conservatives really believe.

Liberals actually believe this is what conservatives believe.


If they don't believe things like that then maybe they should stop saying them
 
2013-10-22 09:29:29 AM

t3knomanser: levied during your inspection


What's an "inspection"?

/If you can bolt a plate to it, you can drive it in Florida.
 
2013-10-22 09:31:21 AM

max_pooper: HMS_Blinkin: MmmCrime: t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.

How do you account for vehicular weight? A motorcycle driving 10,000 miles does far less damage to the road than a Suburban driving 4,000 miles.

Maybe just make it a per-ton multiplier?  So the base is $.10/mile, but then you get to multiply that by the number of tons your vehicle weighs at inspection (rounded to the nearest tenth) so lighter cars pay less?  Obviously commercial trucks would have to be calculated differently.

Just raise the gas tax. A person who drives a heavy vehicle and puts lots of wear on roads will pay more in taxes because they use more gas. A person that drives a shiat load and puts more wear on roads will  pay more taxes because they use more gas. A person who drives a motorcycle less than 50 miles per week and puts very little wear on roads and will pay less in taxes because they use less gas.

Every single person that purchases a good or service delivered by a gasoline powered vehicle will pay their share of the gas tax in the price of the good or service.


Motorcycle would pay less tax than a Suburban anyways. They get way better gas mileage.
 
2013-10-22 09:32:45 AM
Curb weight of the vehicle  * Miles traveled in said vehicle / Arbitrary number == Total tax you need to pay a year for road repair.

/no other way to do it
//Heavy vehicles and people who drive a lot end up paying more. Those with lighter cars and travel less pay less.
///Keeps the EV's paying their fair share for road repairs.
 
2013-10-22 09:33:48 AM
This stuff isn't rocket science - road funding should be paid for by a combination of increased license fees and increased gasoline taxes.

The problem is that we have a bunch of TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY retards who don't understand that roads don't magically appear and maintain themselves.
 
2013-10-22 09:34:45 AM

max_pooper: pueblonative: max_pooper: ProdigalSigh: It's also regressive as all hell...

How so? If you drive more you pay more. It's a tax that is easily avoidable. If you don't want to pay less road taxes use less gas. There are many options for using less gas.

A regressive road tax would be a flat fee for every vehicle. A poor person that can only afford enough gas to drive 100 per week would pay the same as the arsehole suburbanite who drives a gas guzzler by himself on his 80 mile daily commute.

The tax is a sales tax, which essentially is regressive.  And if you can afford a more fuel-efficient, perhaps even a  hybrid car, you pay less.  And coming from an area where public transportation is essentially shiat, I dispute the whole "there are many options for using less gas". Especially for the poor and the working poor.

A sales tax can be avoided by not purchasing the good that has the tax. There are in fact many options for using less gas that don't require public transportation such as carpooling, planning and combining trips, walking or riding a bike. A person who says they can't reduce the amount of gasoline they use is usually lazy.


Because everybody lives with an extended network of family and friends that are available to help them out and whose schedules exactly coincide with their own and who work exactly the same jobs with the same hours.  You avoid the tax by avoiding gas consumption via those methods, you limit your economic mobility however you do it.

And avoiding the tax does not make it not regressive.  It still eats a greater percentage of the poorer person's income than it does the richer one's and gives the former less desirable options to limit it than the latter.  Like I said the rich person can buy a hybrid that costs more and does not limit their mobility in the same way as the options you presented to the other half.
 
2013-10-22 09:34:46 AM

HMS_Blinkin: MmmCrime: t3knomanser: Better solution: mileage tax, levied during your inspection, plus a flat road usage fee rolled into your registration.

So it'd be something like: bi-annual registration is $100 ($50/y) plus $0.10/mi since your last inspection.

How do you account for vehicular weight? A motorcycle driving 10,000 miles does far less damage to the road than a Suburban driving 4,000 miles.

Maybe just make it a per-ton multiplier?  So the base is $.10/mile, but then you get to multiply that by the number of tons your vehicle weighs at inspection (rounded to the nearest tenth) so lighter cars pay less?  Obviously commercial trucks would have to be calculated differently.


The average is something like 12000 miles a year.  You want people to pay a $1200 tax?  Yeehaw talk about regressive.
 
2013-10-22 09:35:10 AM
www.philebrity.com

/you know...
 
2013-10-22 09:37:31 AM

pueblonative: max_pooper: pueblonative: max_pooper: ProdigalSigh: It's also regressive as all hell...

How so? If you drive more you pay more. It's a tax that is easily avoidable. If you don't want to pay less road taxes use less gas. There are many options for using less gas.

A regressive road tax would be a flat fee for every vehicle. A poor person that can only afford enough gas to drive 100 per week would pay the same as the arsehole suburbanite who drives a gas guzzler by himself on his 80 mile daily commute.

The tax is a sales tax, which essentially is regressive.  And if you can afford a more fuel-efficient, perhaps even a  hybrid car, you pay less.  And coming from an area where public transportation is essentially shiat, I dispute the whole "there are many options for using less gas". Especially for the poor and the working poor.

A sales tax can be avoided by not purchasing the good that has the tax. There are in fact many options for using less gas that don't require public transportation such as carpooling, planning and combining trips, walking or riding a bike. A person who says they can't reduce the amount of gasoline they use is usually lazy.

Because everybody lives with an extended network of family and friends that are available to help them out and whose schedules exactly coincide with their own and who work exactly the same jobs with the same hours.  You avoid the tax by avoiding gas consumption via those methods, you limit your economic mobility however you do it.

And avoiding the tax does not make it not regressive.  It still eats a greater percentage of the poorer person's income than it does the richer one's and gives the former less desirable options to limit it than the latter.  Like I said the rich person can buy a hybrid that costs more and does not limit their mobility in the same way as the options you presented to the other half.


The poor are not forced to buy used vehicles with crap mileage. Small cars have been getting pretty darn good mileage for quite a while now.
 
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