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(Talking Points Memo)   Special prosecutor looking at Wisconsin recall elections, on this very special episode of "Law & Order: Special Cheese-Head Unit" *DUN DUN*   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 128
    More: Interesting, Wisconsin, special prosecutor, recall election, head units, Milwaukee County  
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2219 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Oct 2013 at 8:44 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-22 07:49:00 AM
Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.
 
2013-10-22 08:45:36 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


Yeah. But hey, 6 Walker people were brought up on criminal charges.
 
2013-10-22 08:52:08 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


Perhaps, instead, people in Walker's administration should stop breaking the law?
 
2013-10-22 09:00:32 AM
images3.wikia.nocookie.net

"You'll never get a jury to convict!"
"There's no jury here yet, Adam, it's just an investigation so far."
"Now I have to go explain this to the mayor?"
"What mayor? This is a state-level issue!"
"Did anyone bother to teach those cops about Miranda?"
"Oh god, I think he's having a stroke! Call 911!"
 
2013-10-22 09:00:48 AM
Well that was good and vague.
 
2013-10-22 09:01:27 AM

antidisestablishmentarianism: WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.

Yeah. But hey, 6 Walker people were brought up on criminal charges.


six people were convicted, not just charged.
 
2013-10-22 09:05:56 AM

wrs1864: six people were convicted, not just charged.


...so they were charged prior and are currently facing sentencing?
 
2013-10-22 09:07:28 AM

somedude210: wrs1864: six people were convicted, not just charged.

...so they were charged prior and are currently facing sentencing?


It's not usually the other way around.
 
2013-10-22 09:08:53 AM
When gerrymandering and election fraud finally stop working for the GOP, there are going to be MASSIVE shifts to the left.
 
2013-10-22 09:09:52 AM
i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-10-22 09:10:12 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


Yup it's the Dems...

FTFA: Francis Schmitz, a former assistant U.S. attorney who was once considered by President George W. Bush for the post of U.S. attorney for the eastern district of Wisconsin, is now leading the case as a special prosecutor, according to the Journal Sentinel.
 
2013-10-22 09:11:55 AM

optimistic_cynic: Yup it's the Dems...


Conservatives started flogging the "Bush was really just a lib" defense about 48 hours after he finally left office.  This is just an extension of that effort.
 
2013-10-22 09:12:13 AM

Smoking GNU: It's not usually the other way around.


just making sure we're all on the same page :D
 
2013-10-22 09:12:31 AM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: optimistic_cynic: Yup it's the Dems...

Conservatives started flogging the "Bush was really just a lib" defense about 48 hours after he finally left office.  This is just an extension of that effort.


Haha, good point!
 
2013-10-22 09:13:01 AM

wrs1864: antidisestablishmentarianism: WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.

Yeah. But hey, 6 Walker people were brought up on criminal charges.

six people were convicted, not just charged.


You're right.
 
2013-10-22 09:17:11 AM
TFA was remarkably content-free.
 
2013-10-22 09:19:29 AM

lilbjorn: TFA was remarkably content-free.

 
2013-10-22 09:30:00 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


You tend to look dumb when TFA mentions this:

The Journal Sentinel reported on Monday that the probe grew out of leads discovered during an earlier investigation of aides who served Gov. Scott Walker (R) during his time as Milwaukee County executive. That case ended with six people convicted on criminal charges.

The current probe was initiated by the Milwaukee County District Attorney's office, but now involves multiple counties. Francis Schmitz, a former assistant U.S. attorney who was once considered by President George W. Bush for the post of U.S. attorney for the eastern district of Wisconsin, is now leading the case as a special prosecutor, according to the Journal Sentinel.


But you're right. Total goat rope.
 
2013-10-22 09:32:05 AM

Into the blue again: lilbjorn: TFA was remarkably content-free.


I'm pretty sure that the Fark headline contained as much information as the "article" in less words.
 
2013-10-22 09:33:00 AM
 
2013-10-22 09:34:49 AM
Oh, what now? I really dislike Walker, but at some point you just have to accept that we are stuck with him.
 
2013-10-22 09:43:09 AM

snarfyboy: Oh, what now? I really dislike Walker, but at some point you just have to accept that we are stuck with him.


With the problems related to previous gerrymandering attempts and data destruction, to the aforementioned multiple Walker aids that have been criminally convicted, maybe, juuuuust maybe, people don't want to have our Governor bought out to ruin our state. The Koch agenda should not become the Wisconsin agenda. Get him out now and let him start hanging out with Cruz full time to prepare for the humiliation that is the 2016 presidential race.

verbaltoxin: Into the blue again: lilbjorn: TFA was remarkably content-free.

Sure sucks that there's no Milwaukee newspapers who would run an article with information about the case. Or something.


The comments sections are absolute garbage. It's easy to read a decent amount of the articles but don't stray away.
 
2013-10-22 09:47:49 AM

snarfyboy: Oh, what now? I really dislike Walker, but at some point you just have to accept that we are stuck with him.


So he and his people should be allowed to break whatever laws they like? It' ben mentioned several times in the thread, but 6 of his staff have already been convicted. It looks like there are a few more crooks to weed out if multiple counties and a special prosecutor are beating the war drum.
 
2013-10-22 09:51:33 AM
i865.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-22 09:56:26 AM
Now if only the democrats would put up a candidate for Governor not from Milwaukee.
 
2013-10-22 10:00:20 AM
There was nothing in TFA because details were scant. All it said was that a Bush-Appointed Special Prosecutor is making a full investigation, so this is not quite the Liberal Witch-Hunt that our intellectually challenged friends are going to try to make this into.

What are facts is that SIX of Walker's own staffers have been convicted of crimes, this on top of other election irregularites (Open ballot bags, for example..) that have seem to become commonplace after Walker has taken over.

But you know, it's all just us crazy Libs who can't admit defeat or something something labor unions something.
 
2013-10-22 10:02:01 AM

LarryDan43: Now if only the democrats would put up a candidate for Governor not from Milwaukee.


You mean like a business savvy women with years of experience running one of the most respected names in bicycles?
 
2013-10-22 10:08:52 AM

MightyPez: So he and his people should be allowed to break whatever laws they like? It' ben mentioned several times in the thread, but 6 of his staff have already been convicted. It looks like there are a few more crooks to weed out if multiple counties and a special prosecutor are beating the war drum.


Yes yes.  That what they said when the 6 aides were being investigated.  Walker was going down.  Yet where is he today?  Guilt by association is not going to work.  He's a slippery eel, and if something can stick that's great.  But I doubt it.  Meanwhile with all the investigating and recalls all we are doing is emboldening the opposition and, more importantly, pushing swing voters away.  You'll note he won by an even bigger margin on elections take two. The point is, if he's done something illegal, I am all for taking him down.  But this just reeks of hounding and sniffing for some little thing and hoping it sticks.

As a counter example, do you think 41 attempts are recalling the ACA was justified?  Sometimes you just have to let it go.
 
2013-10-22 10:13:12 AM

snarfyboy: But this just reeks of hounding and sniffing for some little thing and hoping it sticks.


According to you. When you investigate a potential criminal enterprise, and you get 6 convictions, it's not a bad idea to beat on the ground and see if anything else turns up.

The ACA argument you made is retarded, because there you had the Republicans doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. A Special Prosecutor has not been called into Wisconsin. This is new.

And if Walker is guilty of gaming elections, how would you feel about that?
 
2013-10-22 10:13:44 AM
Details are scant because it's a John Doe investigation.
 
2013-10-22 10:18:02 AM
The recall failed, in part, because many people thought it was "not right". Also the Dems ran a shiat candidate. Just terrible.

Plus all those ignorant tea 'tards wanted to "stick it to the libs" for no other reason than because their leaders said so. Sad really,
 
2013-10-22 10:18:08 AM

snarfyboy: MightyPez: So he and his people should be allowed to break whatever laws they like? It' ben mentioned several times in the thread, but 6 of his staff have already been convicted. It looks like there are a few more crooks to weed out if multiple counties and a special prosecutor are beating the war drum.

Yes yes.  That what they said when the 6 aides were being investigated.  Walker was going down.  Yet where is he today?  Guilt by association is not going to work.  He's a slippery eel, and if something can stick that's great.  But I doubt it.  Meanwhile with all the investigating and recalls all we are doing is emboldening the opposition and, more importantly, pushing swing voters away.  You'll note he won by an even bigger margin on elections take two. The point is, if he's done something illegal, I am all for taking him down.  But this just reeks of hounding and sniffing for some little thing and hoping it sticks.

As a counter example, do you think 41 attempts are recalling the ACA was justified?  Sometimes you just have to let it go.


The law that was passed by congress, signed into law by the executive branch, and deemed constitutional by the judiciary? No, it wasn't justified.

But that has absolutely no bearing on what is happening in Wisconsin. This investigation is the fruit of the 6 previous convictions. That means 6 people that committed crimes and were convicted of it have pointed investigators, either knowingly or not, to other potential crimes.

So again I ask, do we let people get away with possible criminal activity because they are part of a campaign that won an election? Or is the criminal justice system supposed to stop because you think it's playing politics?

And I say thi as someone that loves Walker. What he has done in Wisconsin as bolstered the economy of my state, Minnesota. The longer he is in office the more we prosper.
 
2013-10-22 10:19:42 AM
I'm pretty damn tired of this "let it go, already" attitude. This is about as far from an empty gesture as it gets. This isn't Darryl Issa demanding a hearing because he lost his car keys. This isn't the 58th vote to repeal Obamacare. It's not using legislative downtime to pretend filibuster. It's just small scale, workmanlike investigation of possible wrongdoing. If that's your definition of "showy" then you need to turn off your computer because you're Amish.
 
2013-10-22 10:25:47 AM

Wessoman: snarfyboy: But this just reeks of hounding and sniffing for some little thing and hoping it sticks.

According to you. When you investigate a potential criminal enterprise, and you get 6 convictions, it's not a bad idea to beat on the ground and see if anything else turns up.

The ACA argument you made is retarded, because there you had the Republicans doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. A Special Prosecutor has not been called into Wisconsin. This is new.


I think you misunderstand.  I already said if he's done something, I would be more then happy to take him down.  My point is more about the idea that there is some piece of evidence out there that has been hiding in some dusty cupboard somewhere.  The fact is we have done tons of investigating and nothing has been found yet.  The more you investigate and turn up nothing to more likely that all you are going to get is nothing.  In short, don't get your hopes up. In a sense, yes, we are beating a dead horse by making a big deal out of stuff like this because more then likely it is going to go nowhere - so yes it is a lot like the ACA at this point.

Meanwhile all the swing voters will be looking at the fuss being made and how we are constantly saying he's a criminal and we will find something.  When it turns out that that he has no offenses worthy of even removing him from office, which at this point is the most likely outcome, our noise-making will be remembered the next time he comes up for election.  I wouldprefer that due diligence be down, and all politicians should have their activities investigated, but quietly and without a lot of fuss until some major piece of evidence comes to light.

Wessoman: And if Walker is guilty of gaming elections, how would you feel about that?


I would want him to go to jail.  However it is highly unlikely that he is.  Do you even know that is what they are investigating?
 
2013-10-22 10:26:03 AM
MightyPez:

And I say thi as someone that loves Walker. What he has done in Wisconsin as bolstered the economy of my state, Minnesota. The longer he is in office the more we prosper.

I was wondering what would happen after the first sentence here, but the justification came in the second sentence. You like Walker because he's not ruining your state. Seems fair.
 
2013-10-22 10:26:48 AM

snarfyboy: I would want him to go to jail. However it is highly unlikely that he is. Do you even know that is what they are investigating?


Do you?
 
2013-10-22 10:27:45 AM
snarfyboy: 

When it turns out that that he has no offenses worthy of even removing him from office, which at this point is the most likely outcome, our noise-making will be remembered the next time he comes up for election.

Mr. Mander would like a word. Can we start removing people from office who do that? Because that would definitely change a lot of leadership in this country.
 
2013-10-22 10:33:58 AM

snarfyboy: When it turns out that that he has no offenses worthy of even removing him from office, which at this point is the most likely outcome, our noise-making will be remembered the next time he comes up for election.


Criminal conduct shouldn't be investigated because politics?
 
2013-10-22 10:34:15 AM

snarfyboy: Do you even know that is what they are investigating?


No. And neither do you.

Aaaand:

snarfyboy: My point is more about the idea that there is some piece of evidence out there that has been hiding in some dusty cupboard somewhere. The fact is we have done tons of investigating and nothing has been found yet.


So where is this "Tons" of investigation...Oh yes, the investigation that led to SIX CONVICTIONS.

You want massive investigations with no convictions, ask Ken Starr for that. But right now, you're "Leave it alone libs" excuse has been exposed for the fud talking point it really is.

Let the special prosecutor do his job and let's see what happens. End of.
 
2013-10-22 10:37:03 AM

MightyPez: But that has absolutely no bearing on what is happening in Wisconsin. This investigation is the fruit of the 6 previous convictions. That means 6 people that committed crimes and were convicted of it have pointed investigators, either knowingly or not, to other potential crimes.


But Walker was not convicted.  So you are now claiming that he must be hounded forever until something sticks?  You have some evidence that he is guilty because he worked with those people?  You are making a lot of assumptions.  At this point, yes, it is a lot like the ACA debacle in that we are so sure we're right that we don't know when to stop.  That is the comparison.  We are hounding a losing game.

I should mention that legislative action is the proper way to get rid of the ACA.   The 40 attempts were valid and the correct way to do it.  Just because a law was passed by congress doesn't mean congress can't undo it later the same way.  The point is what they were doing was a Sisyphean effort.  It just made them look ridiculous.  Our constant hounding of Walker because we are so sure he's dirty it more than likely going to turn out the same way.  We are going to fuss and fuss and in the end, he will still be there.  Meanwhile we will have given ourselves bad PR come next election cycle.

The investigation should continue, but it should be done quietly and with out us shouting "Aha!  We'll get him this time" only to be foiled by the mustache-twirling Walker again.  When something happens and evidence is there, then we should make the big fuss.
 
2013-10-22 10:37:43 AM

Felgraf: Do you?


I don't make assumption.  I prefer evidence.
 
2013-10-22 10:38:39 AM

qorkfiend: Criminal conduct shouldn't be investigated because politics?


I said no such thing.
 
2013-10-22 10:39:48 AM

Triple Oak: Mr. Mander would like a word. Can we start removing people from office who do that? Because that would definitely change a lot of leadership in this country.


Gerrymandering can only get you so far.  But I fail to see how it is germane to this discussion.
 
2013-10-22 10:44:24 AM
This has a real Issa feel to it.
 
2013-10-22 10:45:45 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


I-I honestly don't get this from the political bosses:  Why take the "anybody but 'X'" stance when it comes to nominating an opponent?

When someone as reviled as Walker is your opponent, why did the Wisconsin Dems go for the default option?  Seriously, they couldn't recruit "outside the box" individual who would've inspired people to vote for them?

This happens with both Democrats and Republicans and it's a seriously lazy stance to take.
 
2013-10-22 10:48:12 AM

snarfyboy: qorkfiend: Criminal conduct shouldn't be investigated because politics?

I said no such thing.


But you implied it, like so--

snarfyboy: My point is more about the idea that there is some piece of evidence out there that has been hiding in some dusty cupboard somewhere. The fact is we have done tons of investigating and nothing has been found yet. The more you investigate and turn up nothing to more likely that all you are going to get is nothing. In short, don't get your hopes up. In a sense, yes, we are beating a dead horse by making a big deal out of stuff like this because more then likely it is going to go nowhere - so yes it is a lot like the ACA at this point.


Your argument is that since Walker has won and there has not been a conviction handed to the Governor, then he's (No pun intended) Scott-free. But how do you know any further investigation won't yield more convictions? We already have six, and there appears to be a conspiracy when you have so much criminal malfeasance out of a routine investigation, much less a larger scale investigation by a special prosecutor.

snarfyboy: Felgraf: Do you?

I don't make assumption.  I prefer evidence.


Neither do I, so let's this guy do his job. In the meantime, lay off the "Nothings been found/you libs already lost" meme, which has nothing to do with anything.
 
2013-10-22 10:50:51 AM

Wessoman: No. And neither do you.


Exactly.  But I am not making assumptions and acting like he's a known criminal.  Investigations more often than not turn up nothing.  Doesn't mean they shouldn't be done.  I am not saying stop this investigation.  I am saying stop acting like he's the criminal until we know he is.  Even if this investigation uncovers criminal activity, it more than likely it won't be Walker that gets pinned.

Wessoman: So where is this "Tons" of investigation...Oh yes, the investigation that led to SIX CONVICTIONS.


... and none of them Scott Walker.  But hey, guilt by association.  Just like Obama is a secret Muslim for associating with some in the past.

Wessoman: ou want massive investigations with no convictions, ask Ken Starr for that. But right now, you're "Leave it alone libs" excuse has been exposed for the fud talking point it really is.


I fail to see where I said that.  I only pointed out that I am trying to be realistic.  This investigation will probably end up being much ado about nothing, and even if there are convictions, it is highly unlikely to have anything to with Walker. I would love to see him get caught and removed.  But I am not go to make assumptions and end up with mud on my face.

 

Wessoman: Let the special prosecutor do his job and let's see what happens. End of.


Yes. This is what I am saying.  I just worry that a big fuss will be made and that in the end nothing will come of it.  This is bad PR for us that would like to see him gone. I do not want this idiot to get a second term.
 
2013-10-22 10:55:25 AM

snarfyboy: But Walker was not convicted.  So you are now claiming that he must be hounded forever until something sticks?  You have some evidence that he is guilty because he worked with those people?  You are making a lot of assumptions.  At this point, yes, it is a lot like the ACA debacle in that we are so sure we're right that we don't know when to stop.  That is the comparison.  We are hounding a losing game.


Nope! I'd say good try, but it wasn't. The investigation hasn't said it's specifically targeting Walker. You added that part in. If 6 of his staff have been convicted the wheels of justice don't stop there is they reveal evidence of more wrong doing.

I should mention that legislative action is the proper way to get rid of the ACA.   The 40 attempts were valid and the correct way to do it.  Just because a law was passed by congress doesn't mean congress can't undo it later the same way.  The point is what they were doing was a Sisyphean effort.  It just made them look ridiculous.  Our constant hounding of Walker because we are so sure he's dirty it more than likely going to turn out the same way.  We are going to fuss and fuss and in the end, he will still be there.  Meanwhile we will have given ourselves bad PR come next election cycle.

Errr, no. The legislative approach was to defund a legal program, not to repeal the law. And again, it seems you are suggesting we stop investigating potential crimes (of which there appears to be evidence given the trail thus far) because it is bad for politics. That's sickening, quite frankly.

The investigation should continue, but it should be done quietly and with out us shouting "Aha!  We'll get him this time" only to be foiled by the mustache-twirling Walker again.  When something happens and evidence is there, then we should make the big fuss.

Who is making a fuss, exactly? This is an article about a special prosecutor being brought in to assist with current investigations. This typically gets a press release and i public knowledge.
 
2013-10-22 10:56:03 AM

WTF Indeed: Let it go, Dems. You overhyped an election that you failed to plan correctly.


So an election where actual fraud has lead to convictions, we should just "Let it go". But things like Benghazi where no evidence of fraud exist, just bad security/planning, we are expected to tolerate the constant talk about conspiracy?
 
2013-10-22 10:59:27 AM

snarfyboy: Felgraf: Do you?

I don't make assumption.  I prefer evidence.


Ah. Do you believe evidence magically appears without investigations? Perhaps it comes from the evidence fairy, sleeping bits of evidence under Prosecutor's pillows as they dream of sugarplums working on chain gangs.
 
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