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(Seeking Alpha)   Simple math that proves Pandora is doomed? It's more likely than you think   (seekingalpha.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, maths  
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3861 clicks; posted to Business » on 22 Oct 2013 at 8:24 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-10-22 08:37:26 AM  
Now, I am no PocketNinja, but I just can't understand why people preface their bullshiat with variations of the phrase "Now, I am no ___________, but" and then keep typing, like it's ever not been a complete waste of everybody's time. Here's an article that takes a bunch of vague assertions, and comes to the conclusion that a popular service will lose traction to a popular competitor, and then takes two farking pages to pretend to back that up with made-up, out of date, or incomplete math, and then puts a farking registration wall between the first and second page. Maybe you were having trouble hating people today, and really needed that second page to get your rageboner pointed northwards. Maybe the author started making salient, well-supported arguments while outlining recommended responses on the next page. I just can't imagine a world where they're droning on and on and on to stretch the sentence "iTunes growth correlates to Pandora shrinkage." into two pages just to get people to register for their shiatty site. I mean, would people do that? Just go on the internet and keep typing with nothing to say?
 
2013-10-22 08:37:56 AM  
Registration required to finish reading the article?  It's more likely than you think.

Doing a quick search in Google Finance shows the only publication making these dire predictions of Pandora is Seeking Alpha.  Which either means SA knows something everyone else doesn't, or the CEO of Pandora is banging the SA editor-in-chief's wife/sister/daughter/all three.
 
2013-10-22 09:00:38 AM  
Pandora?  Feh.

www6.pcmag.com
 
2013-10-22 09:01:33 AM  

ColSanders: Pandora?  Feh.


This.
 
2013-10-22 09:21:11 AM  
well, she did open the box
 
2013-10-22 09:22:27 AM  
Also, when Itunes for android comes out, then it'll be more interesting to me
 
2013-10-22 09:22:49 AM  
Those damn Hyperion sunsabiatches.
 
2013-10-22 09:26:26 AM  

valkore: Registration required to finish reading the article?  It's more likely than you think.

Doing a quick search in Google Finance shows the only publication making these dire predictions of Pandora is Seeking Alpha.  Which either means SA knows something everyone else doesn't, or the CEO of Pandora is banging the SA editor-in-chief's wife/sister/daughter/all three.


Maybe someone at Seeking Alpha is shortselling Pandora
 
2013-10-22 09:28:55 AM  
Don't you love that assumption early in the article: "Pandora cannot afford to lose one user"?

Yeah, they really can, especially since they're still GAINING users.

The high number of immediate iTunes Radio adopters are mostly because it was free, with ads. For ad-free, you need to subscribe to iTunes Match for $25/year.

The biggest effect will probably be a drop in Pandora's yearly commercial-free option price to match.
 
2013-10-22 09:34:05 AM  

valkore: Registration required to finish reading the article?  It's more likely than you think.


Strange.  I got the whole article on one page.
 
2013-10-22 09:36:03 AM  
Author sounds like an Apple Fanboi.
 
2013-10-22 09:42:06 AM  
I'm on Android and stopped using Pandora years ago. I think I use 8tracks. I really don't care as long as they have no, or limited, ads that doesn't interfere or cut into the free music they are streaming.
 
2013-10-22 09:44:00 AM  

evilmrsock: Now, I am no PocketNinja, but I just can't understand why people preface their bullshiat with variations of the phrase "Now, I am no ___________, but" and then keep typing, like it's ever not been a complete waste of everybody's time. Here's an article that takes a bunch of vague assertions, and comes to the conclusion that a popular service will lose traction to a popular competitor, and then takes two farking pages to pretend to back that up with made-up, out of date, or incomplete math, and then puts a farking registration wall between the first and second page. Maybe you were having trouble hating people today, and really needed that second page to get your rageboner pointed northwards. Maybe the author started making salient, well-supported arguments while outlining recommended responses on the next page. I just can't imagine a world where they're droning on and on and on to stretch the sentence "iTunes growth correlates to Pandora shrinkage." into two pages just to get people to register for their shiatty site. I mean, would people do that? Just go on the internet and keep typing with nothing to say?


You're right...you are no PocketNinja.

There can be only one.
 
2013-10-22 09:52:12 AM  
Plot of Avatar 2?
 
2013-10-22 09:52:17 AM  
Driedsponge:  You're right...you are no PocketNinja.

There can be only one.


I'm sorry, but registration is required to read my witty retort.
 
2013-10-22 10:13:54 AM  

ColSanders: Pandora?  Feh.

[www6.pcmag.com image 275x275]


Their mobile app frustrated me to the point of uninstallation.
 
2013-10-22 10:28:54 AM  
My TV plays Pandora.  It could just as easily be Last.FM, Spotify, or a dozen other sources.  It's all the same to me.
 
2013-10-22 10:35:21 AM  
This might mean something if there had ever been any evidence that Seeking Alpha is capable of doing simple math. If they told me 2+2 was 4 I'd hire a slew of physicists to make sure the fundamental nature of reality hadn't changed overnight before I trusted their analysis for anything important.
 
2013-10-22 10:41:02 AM  
For some reason, I hardly ever hear ads with Pandora...doesn't matter if I'm using the App or from my PC. Hell, I don't mind ads once in a while, but if you aren't going to play them, thats fine with me too
 
2013-10-22 10:58:10 AM  
But what about the blue monkeys?!?!?
 
2013-10-22 11:03:35 AM  
iTunes is for listening to music that I've purchased.  Spotify is for listening to ad-supported music that I haven't purchased.

Pandora may well be in trouble, but it's not because iTunes Radio is poised to steal away their user base.
 
2013-10-22 11:38:39 AM  
I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?
 
2013-10-22 12:12:52 PM  

Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?


The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.
 
2013-10-22 12:28:46 PM  

evilmrsock: Now, I am no PocketNinja, but I just can't understand why people preface their bullshiat with variations of the phrase "Now, I am no ___________, but" and then keep typinglike it's ever not been a complete waste of everybody's time. Here's an article that takes a bunch of vague assertions, and comes to the conclusion that a popular service will lose traction to a popular competitor, and then takes two farking pages to pretend to back that up with made-up, out of date, or incomplete math, and then puts a farking registration wall between the first and second page. Maybe you were having trouble hating people today, and really needed that second page to get your rageboner pointed northwards. Maybe the author started making salient, well-supported arguments while outlining recommended responses on the next page. I just can't imagine a world where they're droning on and on and on to stretch the sentence "iTunes growth correlates to Pandora shrinkage." into two pages just to get people to register for their shiatty site. I mean, would people do that? Just go on the internet and keep typing with nothing to say?


Nice.
 
2013-10-22 12:37:41 PM  
"...Pandora has been failing for 13 years now..."

Well, obviously not.  No dotcom flails around for that long without going under.  Author sounds like a schmuck and an Apple gobbler.
 
2013-10-22 12:37:56 PM  

Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?


I think this will prolong Pandora's existence, though I'm not sure it will prevent it from ultimately dying.  Unlike Pandora,  iTunes Radio is buried inside their music app, rather than having a stand alone icon, so it is not on the forefront of my thoughts when I go to listen to a music stream.  This is ultimately an easy fix on Apple's part though.
 
2013-10-22 01:01:41 PM  
Why is math needed to come to the conclusion that Pandora sucks?
 
2013-10-22 01:10:32 PM  

12349876: Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?

The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.


if Spotify had a mobile app that didn't require me to pay for subscription I'd likely stop listening to Pandora
 
kab
2013-10-22 01:15:36 PM  

jpo2269: Why is math needed to come to the conclusion that Pandora sucks?


I have no idea.  Common sense should tell folks that a station that tries to tell you what you want to hear through it's own cherrypicked playlists isn't going serve much purpose when a) there are plenty of other alternatives that do this already, and b) apps like Spotify that have no such limitations.

In other words, if you're wondering why you don't hear *insert your favorite band here* on Pandora, it's because they decided that the artist wasn't a good fit for that particular genre.

While I will applaud Pandora's efforts to allow the listener to directly buy product from the artist they like (something that Spotify doesn't do, since it effectively goes against their business model), their sole arbiter mentality can sink right along with the ship its on.
 
2013-10-22 01:29:36 PM  

12349876: Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?

The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.


i.imgflip.com
 
2013-10-22 01:31:17 PM  

12349876: Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?

The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.


If I want a whole album, I'll download it off the torrents and dump it into Google Music.

Pandora is radio that I don't have to think about.  Just set it and listen.
 
2013-10-22 01:35:32 PM  

tricycleracer: 12349876: Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?

The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.

If I want a whole album, I'll download it off the torrents and dump it into Google Music.

Pandora is radio that I don't have to think about.  Just set it and listen.


Spotify is much simpler than torrents, and legal.  And I don't have to download the whole damn album to figure out I don't like it after 2 minutes.
 
2013-10-22 01:43:43 PM  

tricycleracer: ColSanders: Pandora?  Feh.

[www6.pcmag.com image 275x275]

Their mobile app frustrated me to the point of uninstallation.


When I had it on my Android phone it worked fine, but then I got suckered into getting an iphone (they offered one for free and there was a better selection of beefy cases to protect it from my reckless outdoorsiness) after the Oregon dunes ate my Android.  I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to close Pandora on it, but once I did it was tolerable until Apple recently did an update, and now my previous method of closing Pandora doesn't work.  It's a conspiracy, I tell you!

/goddamn apple piece of shiat grumble grumble never again grumble grumble...
 
2013-10-22 02:35:36 PM  
P's stock is already back up to where it was at the time of the Apple announcement. And for every SA link you find saying to short them, you can find analysts expecting $31-32 prices soon.

/Seeking Alpha is to investing what the Politics tab is to government
 
2013-10-22 04:11:32 PM  
That's all well and good, but it still doesn't tell me if Netcraft has confirmed that *BSD is dying yet.
 
2013-10-22 04:15:54 PM  

Scrotastic Method: And for every SA link you find saying to short them, you can find analysts expecting $31-32 prices soon.


They should stick to Photoshop Phridays and Let's Play videos.
 
2013-10-22 04:33:55 PM  
iTunes has gone to hell, at least for me.  They rolled out a new format that is as far away from intuitive as possible.  It took me literally thirty minutes, probably more, trying to figure out how to create playlists and drag music I already had into them.  And now that I've figured it out, I still think it well and truly sucks.

Meanwhile they discontinued some of the things I liked in iTunes Stone, such as Celebrity Playlists and their Essentials series.  Yeah, it was kind of interesting to see what some musician or actor put together to listen to.  Sue me.  Then the Essentials (for genre, era, city, whatever) gave some great ideas for downloads.

They shat the boat.  At work I listen to Spotify.  A huge amount of music available.  And Spotify radio isn't bad.  I won't likely listen to iTunes Radio, if the basic iTunes still sucks this bad.
 
2013-10-22 05:51:10 PM  
HortusMatris:
I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to close Pandora on it, but once I did it was tolerable until Apple recently did an update, and now my previous method of closing Pandora doesn't work.

How to close Pandora on an iPhone:

Hit Pause.

Then press the big round Home button.

Problem solved.

(No, you really don't need to completely shut down an inactive app unless something is really wrong, and you're probably better off just restarting the device, although you can do the "home double-click/hold/minus sign" trick if you really want to feel all techie and stuff)
 
2013-10-22 06:00:14 PM  

cirby: HortusMatris:
I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to close Pandora on it, but once I did it was tolerable until Apple recently did an update, and now my previous method of closing Pandora doesn't work.

How to close Pandora on an iPhone:

Hit Pause.

Then press the big round Home button.

Problem solved.

(No, you really don't need to completely shut down an inactive app unless something is really wrong, and you're probably better off just restarting the device, although you can do the "home double-click/hold/minus sign" trick if you really want to feel all techie and stuff)


I... I just can't leave it paused.  Maybe it's an OCD thing, but leaving the app open will drive me crazy.  The "home double-click/hold/minus sign" thing was how I was closing it before the last update, but now it won't do the minus sign when I hold the icon.
 
2013-10-22 09:01:56 PM  
I know I'm a horrible human being and I should be ashamed of my life choices, but I like Pandora.  I'm not a control freak.  I like the concept of creating a channel with a few seeds, maybe doing a bit of pruning now and then, and ending up with a station that plays a lot of music I like and that introduces me to numerous new songs and artists that I probably wouldn't have discovered otherwise.  I can just turn it on at work or at home and let it play.

I also like that there's a Pandora app for most of the appliances in my house, where as there aren't for a lot of the other services.  That was a major selling point for me.

Most importantly, I like how easy it makes the process of finding a source to buy the music I like the most.  It's awesome for dance/trance/techno remixes.  Sometimes it's very hard to find certain remixes (legally), but with Pandora, more often or not, it links me directly to a service where I can buy the particular mix that I just enjoyed.

The only downside I've encountered is that if I give a thumbs up to an song by an artist I don't particularly like, it will subject me to a high proportion of that artist's songs that I don't like.  And even if I down vote those songs, they still seem to come up in the rotation heavily.  There's got to be a better mechanism or algorithm to identify that I happen to like that one song, but none of the others by that artist.
 
2013-10-22 09:10:38 PM  
ok, just went to Spotify to see if I could listen to Led Zeppelin Gallows Pole.  I typed "Led Zeppelin" into the search and it returned "your search did not match any tracks in our catalogue"

wtf?
 
2013-10-22 09:42:51 PM  

HortusMatris: cirby: HortusMatris:
I... I just can't leave it paused.  Maybe it's an OCD thing, but leaving the app open will drive me crazy.  The "home double-click/hold/minus sign" thing was how I was closing it before the last update, but now it won't do the minus sign when I hold the icon.


Home Double-Click/Drag the app up. Kinda obvious once you do it for the first time, but until then it is sorta confusing.
 
2013-10-22 10:24:41 PM  
Israel Kanawakinihigiralainroalieieala's estate will not let Pandora die. Otherwise, "Somewhere over the rainbow" will never be heard again.

/Seriously, on my Dropkick Murphys station?
 
2013-10-22 10:42:59 PM  

CrazyWhiteBoy311: HortusMatris: cirby: HortusMatris:
I... I just can't leave it paused.  Maybe it's an OCD thing, but leaving the app open will drive me crazy.  The "home double-click/hold/minus sign" thing was how I was closing it before the last update, but now it won't do the minus sign when I hold the icon.

Home Double-Click/Drag the app up. Kinda obvious once you do it for the first time, but until then it is sorta confusing.


AHA!!!  Thank you!  Maybe that's more intuitive to other people, but that was not obvious to me at all.  Seriously, I sat there until I just about threw my phone through a window trying to figure out how to close that app earlier, frustratingly jabbing, flicking, and pressing my finger on the screen for freaking ever just to have the icon, which used to start wiggling and grow a minus sign, sit there mockingly and do nothing.  Argh!
 
2013-10-23 01:37:58 AM  

valkore: Registration required to finish reading the article?  It's more likely than you think.

Doing a quick search in Google Finance shows the only publication making these dire predictions of Pandora is Seeking Alpha.  Which either means SA knows something everyone else doesn't, or the CEO of Pandora is banging the SA editor-in-chief's wife/sister/daughter/all three.


Eyuck! Who pays for that wedding?!
 
2013-10-23 07:33:57 AM  

HortusMatris: 12349876: Smackledorfer: I use pandora because it works, my stations are already set up, and I am too lazy to try a competitor.

What makes others so much better?

The two reasons that got me to quit Pandora is that on others you can listen to albums front to back and they have a better selection of non-mainstream artists.  Though I can understand these aren't advantages to everyone.  Some are happy with their radio singles.

[i.imgflip.com image 150x150]


Personally, I prefer whatever the local rock station is. I just can't get enough STP, Alice in Chains, or Nirvana.
 
2013-10-23 04:19:11 PM  
I use both Pandora and Spotify. Pandora to just listen to music and discover new artists. Spotify to dig deep on an artist or if I feel like listening to an album. Spotify's radio sucks; it repeats way too much. Pandora's lead is their algorithm and its why I'll stick with them.
 
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