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(BBC)   Microsoft can't even roll out an update to fix problems without creating problems   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 113
    More: Fail, Windows, Microsoft, ARM architecture, Windows 8.1, Outline of Google, left-hand side, Mr Williams  
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4663 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Oct 2013 at 11:46 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



113 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-21 10:46:41 PM

ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."


This couldn't be further from the truth. Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve. Even further, I had to look up how to install 8.1 because it didn't even show up as an option in Windows Update.

Maybe, if I was some kind of putz who didn't change the settings from default, you would have half a point. Then again, if I was that kind of putz, I would probably be better off taking every update that came along.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 11:11:56 PM

thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve


Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.
 
2013-10-21 11:25:58 PM

rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.


Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 11:36:05 PM

Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.


Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?
 
2013-10-21 11:51:13 PM

rpm: Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.

Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?


Which one?  Looks like they've got 4 on my machine, so 2020, 2021, 2035, or 2036.  Verisign has at least three, one of which expired in 2004.

Why in the hell would you want root certs on your system to expire?
 
2013-10-22 01:57:55 AM

ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."


Yes, that is retarded about Windows RT.  To fix it, open regedit, then go to this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update

Change the "AUOptions" value from 4 to 2, then reboot.  Now it'll tell you about updates being available when you're at the login screen, but you'll have to go to Windows Update to actually install them when you want them.
 
2013-10-22 02:08:29 AM

Myria: ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."

Yes, that is retarded about Windows RT.  To fix it, open regedit, then go to this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update

Change the "AUOptions" value from 4 to 2, then reboot.  Now it'll tell you about updates being available when you're at the login screen, but you'll have to go to Windows Update to actually install them when you want them.


Can you open regedit on RT?
 
2013-10-22 05:29:53 AM

xalres: It gets hate because it's put out by Microsoft. Pure and simple. Microsoft and Apple can't seem to escape the reputations they earned in the 90s in the eye of the general public and tech journalists. Microsoft is still seen as an anti-competitive, uninspired, closed off monolithic dinosaur of a company despite the innovations and new directions they've tried or how open they are with the developers that write software for their ecosystems. Meanwhile, Apple is still seen as a cutting edge, groundbreaking free spirited underdog despite the fact that they've grown into a giant megacorp, have been riding the coattails of two product lines for at least the last five years, make their developers pay for the privilege of working with their SDK and generally have been at least as anti-competitive as Microsoft was in the 90s.


True. I'll give you that one. But I'll be honest, as much as I dislike Microsoft as a company and some of the decisions they've made lately, I like Surface.

Myria: I'm actually working on a jailbreak that's compatible with RT 8.1 to let you run non-Microsoft-signed desktop applications.  They have to be compiled for ARM, though, which pretty much restricts it to open-source programs.  No commercial developer would bother compiling their closed-source applications for a platform requiring a jailbreak...  (Unless they were a developer catered to that environment, like the Cydia app store developers.)


There is already a jailbreak out there for 8 (I use it to run FileZilla). I would suspect it would run with 8.1 but haven't installed 8.1 so I can't be 100% for certain. Here's a link:  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158">http://foru m.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158

Lsherm: Can you open regedit on RT?


Yes.
 
2013-10-22 08:16:09 AM

WxAxGxS: Representative of the unwashed masses: WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.

Then go download one of the start button apps.  If your present computer with 7 or XP etc makes you happy don't upgrade.  If you get a new Win 8 machine, no point in nuking it and losing the under the hood improvements if downloading one tiny app will give you the best of both worlds.

Of just click on the start screen and begin typing the name of the program you want, voila it wi ...


Apart from classic shell, there's also Start Menu 8
http://download.cnet.com/Start-Menu-8/3000-2072_4-75852660.html
 
rpm
2013-10-22 09:48:37 AM

Lsherm: rpm: Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.

Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?

Which one?  Looks like they've got 4 on my machine, so 2020, 2021, 2035, or 2036.  Verisign has at least three, one of which expired in 2004.

Why in the hell would you want root certs on your system to expire?


You don't want them to expire. But when you tell the system don't update until I tell you, it shouldn't farking update until you tell it.

There's no worries about the ones associated with updates expiring, so your excuse of them updating when auto update is off is bogus.
 
2013-10-22 10:37:53 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marine1
It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.

So the takeaway here is "buy an iPhone".

Got it.


Or a Windows Phone. Or a high-end Android device. 

As FOSS becomes more popular and a means to make money, this problem will continue to grow. When code is out there, it's out there forever. Current licensure schemes don't require updates or that device makers/software providers use the most recent version. As a result, companies will make cheap devices running on less expensive hardware, and because the hardware is lower performance, they can't run more up-to-date software on it, so they use the older software. No one can tell them "no".
 
2013-10-22 10:42:17 AM

Pharque-it: Marine1: Pharque-it: I am using XP, so I get a kick out of this...
Had to spend an hour to get rid of endless repeating updates of dotNet 2.5 upgrades...
And their dotNet cleaning tool did not work off course...
They sure know how to upgrade their own software. And provide non-working clean-up tools.

Your answer to this question will dictate how I view you for the rest of this thread, and perhaps beyond:

Are you in a situation where you  have to use XP?

/girlfriend's tablet updated without problems
//good thing, too, because I was in no mood.
 

Have to use WinXP? No, but I refuse to jump on MacroShiat's upgrade circus. I have used MS windows since 2.0 and been disappointed ever since. It is not by any professional definition a full blown OS. Every version since WinXP offers marginal benefits, they are still based on the fundamentally sick platform, and have so many issues, primarily security ones, that they cannot be used in a critical environments.
Neither can XP, which I use privately, and solely due to software availability. I do not want to buy new MS products or other companies SW to match their more resent non-innovative "upgrades". They offer little improvement over what I already paid for.
I am done with MS and their SW, and I am just waiting for the moment to port to something that is not a patchwork, and that has basic OS functions like task/user, task/task isolation (no memory leakage), real time (not just human RT) performance, real preemptive multitasking, memory management worth the name, with garbage collection, effective segment swapping algorithms, and utilizes the intel system architecture as it was intended from 80286 onwards. Windows does not cut it. Just the need of restarts tells it all....
MS has farked this chicken so badly, in an undeserved successful (and predatory) way, for so many years, and prevented the evolution of OS' for the last 15 years. "Good enough" has never been my guiding star.
I have no admiration for MS. I just want them ...


So, your solution to this supposed conundrum is to use an operating system riddled with security holes that will stop receiving updates in April of next year (7 months from now). Not switching to Linux, not using a Mac, not realizing that there are actual differences between XP and 7/8/8.1... just using ancient software that you haven't liked since the 1980s. 

Jeeze.
 
2013-10-22 06:07:45 PM

Marine1: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marine1
It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.

So the takeaway here is "buy an iPhone".

Got it.

Or a Windows Phone. Or a high-end Android device. 

As FOSS becomes more popular and a means to make money, this problem will continue to grow. When code is out there, it's out there forever. Current licensure schemes don't require updates or that device makers/software providers use the most recent version. As a result, companies will make cheap devices running on less expensive hardware, and because the hardware is lower performance, they can't run more up-to-date software on it, so they use the older software. No one can tell them "no".


I'm starting to feel that, unless you're techy enough to know (or want to learn) how to root your phone and flash custom ROMs, the only Android device you should go anywhere near is the Nexus.  And even that, only on GSM carriers.
 
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