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(BBC)   Microsoft can't even roll out an update to fix problems without creating problems   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 113
    More: Fail, Windows, Microsoft, ARM architecture, Windows 8.1, Outline of Google, left-hand side, Mr Williams  
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4655 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Oct 2013 at 11:46 AM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



113 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-21 11:48:50 AM
Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.
 
2013-10-21 11:49:44 AM
Is this about the 8.1 RT update bricking devices?
*clicks link*
Yup.
 
2013-10-21 11:51:48 AM
FTA: The updated version of the web browser has caused Google search results to be mashed together at the left hand side of a display. Others have reported IE11 has caused similar usability problems with Google's Play website and Music service.

Isolated incident. Overzealous coder.
 
2013-10-21 11:56:03 AM
You say that like it's a new thing.
 
2013-10-21 11:56:28 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Is this about the 8.1 RT update bricking devices?


So this is a problem for who again?  The four or five people who own Surface RT tablets who aren't Microsoft employees?  Not sure I'm seeing why this is news.
 
2013-10-21 11:58:37 AM
Desktop threadimg.fark.net
 
2013-10-21 11:59:53 AM

theorellior: FTA: The updated version of the web browser has caused Google search results to be mashed together at the left hand side of a display. Others have reported IE11 has caused similar usability problems with Google's Play website and Music service.

Isolated incident. Overzealous coder.


I would give them the benefit of the doubt until the next part of the article which is that IE 11 breaks Outlook.com

So Microsoft you want us to use your tablet to use your cloud email and then your own browser isn't compatible??

Great way to earn trust.
 
2013-10-21 12:00:01 PM

meatofmystery: Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.


Upgrade always = malfunction.
 
2013-10-21 12:06:51 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: Desktop thread[img.fark.net image 850x293]


Sure why not

i.imgur.com

/8.1
 
2013-10-21 12:18:57 PM

drjekel_mrhyde: Desktop thread[img.fark.net image 850x293]


What is that weird box in the bottom right corner of your FARK page?
 
2013-10-21 12:20:35 PM
I am using XP, so I get a kick out of this...
Had to spend an hour to get rid of endless repeating updates of dotNet 2.5 upgrades...
And their dotNet cleaning tool did not work off course...
They sure know how to upgrade their own software. And provide non-working clean-up tools.
 
2013-10-21 12:22:16 PM

Witty_Retort: drjekel_mrhyde: Desktop thread[img.fark.net image 850x293]

What is that weird box in the bottom right corner of your FARK page?


Fark's way of asking for money
/If one more loud ass ad start playing, I'm going to enable ad-block
 
2013-10-21 12:22:56 PM
It looks like you're trying to operate a business.  Let me help you
 
2013-10-21 12:26:05 PM
The 8.1 update on my Asus tablet (full Windows) was a huge improvement in boot time, and overall performance increased nicely.
I don't know MS managed to screw up the RT version.
 
2013-10-21 12:29:10 PM
This is the only way they have left to get us to talk about their software.  They're just trolling at this point.
 
2013-10-21 12:30:21 PM
Bring back the Zune!
 
2013-10-21 12:35:08 PM

HotIgneous Intruder: meatofmystery: Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.

Upgrade always = malfunction.


This has nothing to do with computers, but a favorite auto teacher of mine once said, "The three words every mechanic hates most is 'new and improved'."
 
2013-10-21 12:39:18 PM

Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!


I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?
 
2013-10-21 12:43:14 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


Just for the record, iPods play mp3 files. My entire collection is mp3 and I've never had a problem. Of course, it does tether you to iTunes. So I can certainly understand avoiding Apple options.
 
2013-10-21 12:43:55 PM
The latest Windows update is causing problems for owners of Microsoft's Surface RT gadgets.

What problems could it possibly cause that would be worse than the usual RT experience?
 
2013-10-21 12:44:04 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


I tried looking for a non-Apple high storage MP3 player but nobody seems to do them any more.

Next option should I not find one and still want one will be a cheap Android phone with a big microSD card in it and no SIM. Basically a poor man's iPod touch.
 
2013-10-21 12:52:41 PM

IanMoone: theorellior: FTA: The updated version of the web browser has caused Google search results to be mashed together at the left hand side of a display. Others have reported IE11 has caused similar usability problems with Google's Play website and Music service.

Isolated incident. Overzealous coder.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt until the next part of the article which is that IE 11 breaks Outlook.com

So Microsoft you want us to use your tablet to use your cloud email and then your own browser isn't compatible??

Great way to earn trust.


When we had Outlook 2003 the only version of IE that would work on it was IE6.  Mozilla, Opera, and Chrome all worked perfectly fine.
 
2013-10-21 01:02:44 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


Nokia is bringing out a MP3 player tomorrow or you can just get a Lumia 520 for $99 and a 64GB SD card
/you can also use it a a phone, xbox smart glass, GPS, or time wasting video game player
 
2013-10-21 01:02:59 PM
This is a known property of software systems.

NASA used to document bugs in the software that ran the Space Shuttle computers, and it it wasn't a critical problem, they would just leave them without fixing them, because they knew that for every X bugs they fixed, they'd introduce a new, unknown bug.

The devil you know is oft times better than the one you don't.
 
2013-10-21 01:13:21 PM

meatofmystery: Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.


Of course, Apple and google have never had any issues with upgrading software on any device ever.  Microsoft will come to your house, beat your wife and rape your dog if you dare update their software or something like that.
 
2013-10-21 01:18:31 PM
Sounds remarkably like th company I work for.
Except for the profits.
 
2013-10-21 01:19:54 PM
I can't believe a company would go to such lengths to update its OS and still have problems.

Wait, is this the thread where we talk about IOS 7?

/Or 7.0.1?
//Or 7.0.2?
 
2013-10-21 01:33:24 PM

meatofmystery: Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.


They're worse than most others. Bad enough that it's SOP among professionals to either have a whole duplicate test environment just for patch testing or to delay patch implementations by some period. I won't put any patch on a production server that's less than 2 weeks old or didn't go through a dev server first.

Blizzard may be the only software company I've ever seen that's even less competent when it comes to patches and updates, although Cisco is pretty good at shoving you down and kicking you in the balls with their antics too sometimes.
 
2013-10-21 01:34:00 PM
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-10-21 01:34:48 PM
Let's hope that Microsoft's next OS wouldn't be a huge mess.
 
2013-10-21 01:34:50 PM

styckx: drjekel_mrhyde: Desktop thread[img.fark.net image 850x293]

Sure why not

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]

/8.1


I'm afraid I need to ask you for what you're using for that config, both the floating google search bar and the utilities below it.

If you're willing, that is.
 
2013-10-21 01:42:55 PM
Neither can mozilla these days..

Firefox 24..
Firefox 24.1
FireFox 24.3
Firefox ...
 
2013-10-21 01:44:14 PM

IanMoone: theorellior: FTA: The updated version of the web browser has caused Google search results to be mashed together at the left hand side of a display. Others have reported IE11 has caused similar usability problems with Google's Play website and Music service.

Isolated incident. Overzealous coder.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt until the next part of the article which is that IE 11 breaks Outlook.com

So Microsoft you want us to use your tablet to use your cloud email and then your own browser isn't compatible??

Great way to earn trust.


To be fair, on Windows 8.1, everything that Outlook.com does is integrated into the Mail and Calendar apps and everything integrates when you attach your Outlook.com credentials to the tablet. I'm guessing they assumed everyone would be smart enough to use the included apps instead of farking around with the web site to do everything the hard way.
 
2013-10-21 01:44:15 PM

SordidEuphemism: styckx: drjekel_mrhyde: Desktop thread[img.fark.net image 850x293]

Sure why not

[i.imgur.com image 850x478]

/8.1

I'm afraid I need to ask you for what you're using for that config, both the floating google search bar and the utilities below it.

If you're willing, that is.


Rainmeter w/ the Obsidian skin set for the floating system stats, date etc,  and WP7 skin set for the Google search bar.
 
2013-10-21 01:48:25 PM

Pharque-it: I am using XP, so I get a kick out of this...
Had to spend an hour to get rid of endless repeating updates of dotNet 2.5 upgrades...
And their dotNet cleaning tool did not work off course...
They sure know how to upgrade their own software. And provide non-working clean-up tools.


Your answer to this question will dictate how I view you for the rest of this thread, and perhaps beyond:

Are you in a situation where you  have to use XP?

/girlfriend's tablet updated without problems
//good thing, too, because I was in no mood.
 
2013-10-21 01:50:32 PM

skozlaw: meatofmystery: Clearly, the failure that is MS is the only tech company that has done this.

They're worse than most others. Bad enough that it's SOP among professionals to either have a whole duplicate test environment just for patch testing or to delay patch implementations by some period. I won't put any patch on a production server that's less than 2 weeks old or didn't go through a dev server first.

Blizzard may be the only software company I've ever seen that's even less competent when it comes to patches and updates, although Cisco is pretty good at shoving you down and kicking you in the balls with their antics too sometimes.


They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.
 
2013-10-21 01:53:04 PM
If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.
 
2013-10-21 01:54:13 PM
Meanwhile the last Android update still hasn't fixed the random reboots and crashes on my Nexus 10 tablet, which is the flagship tablet for Google (and yes, I've done a factory wipe to see if it was apps causing the issues). Hopefully the Kit Kat update fixes the issues.
 
2013-10-21 02:05:23 PM

enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.


Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 02:11:53 PM

Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.


Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?
 
2013-10-21 02:20:42 PM

enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.


Uh.. I've had Windows 8 since launch (legit paid for also) and upgraded to 8.1 the day of release.. I've had nothing but a pleasurable experience with it and is definitely better than Windows 7..
 
2013-10-21 02:22:04 PM

Bungles: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.


MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.
 
2013-10-21 02:26:36 PM

rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?


There was a big discontinuity between Windows Phone 7 and Windows Phone 8, with the latter requiring newer, dual-core chipsets. Honestly it wasn't THAT big of an issue because a lot of the upgrades required new hardware anyway (720p screen support, NFC, better external memory card support). The only people that really got screwed were the ones who jumped on a first gen Nokia Lumias like the 710 or the 900 (which was released 6 months before the Lumia 920 came out for the same price), but the bright side is that if they REALLY want a new phone before their contract is up they can pick up a Lumia 520 or 521 for less than a hundred bucks with no contract in the short term.

Microsoft is not the only ones who screwed early adopters, though. The first gen iPad is stuck at iOS 5 even though it has a faster processor than the iPhone 4. I guess they shortchanged it on RAM, making future updates impossible.
 
2013-10-21 02:28:13 PM

Lsherm: Bungles: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.

MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.


I have an X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and it works.. The problem is it doesn't save any settings after a reboot  in Console Launcher now (just like when Windows 8 came out).. Try switching to Entertainment mode and your sound will kick in..
A round about way to save your settings is to put the PC to sleep and it will save them..  Creative always have been, and always will be terrible with driver support..
 
2013-10-21 02:31:30 PM

Lsherm: Bungles: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.

MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.


Yeah, it was fun enough gettin my X-fi titanium to (barely) work in 8. I'll just have to go back to the onboard Realtek driver. farking Creative...
 
2013-10-21 02:32:14 PM

Lsherm: Bungles: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.

MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.



I'm sure it will be supported. You can just "not support" what will be 90% of the user base in a couple of years.

It's also not like Creative didn't have close to a year's warning and developer builds.
 
2013-10-21 02:34:00 PM

rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?


Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

img.fark.net

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.
 
2013-10-21 02:38:21 PM

NeoCortex42: Just for the record, iPods play mp3 files. My entire collection is mp3 and I've never had a problem. Of course, it does tether you to iTunes. So I can certainly understand avoiding Apple options.


I manage my iPod with Foobar, and I've never had a problem.  Mind you, these are iPod classics because I want the larger capacity and don't really need the bells and whistles of the Touch because my iPod is for exercising or use in the car.

Lsherm: MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.


This.  I installed 8.1 and found my new Logitech F710 wireless controller no longer worked.

I would have just accepted it, but 8.1 ruined my Start screen by turning almost all of my icons a ghastly bright orange color, deleted Avast entirely, and rearranged everything on the Start screen I had perfectly arranged.

I also rolled back, but I was stupid and didn't have a weekly back up, so I spent a good deal of time re-downloading everything in Steam.
 
2013-10-21 02:41:14 PM

Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.


I'm thinking the people who buy their phones at a supermarket, probably don't care what version of the OS that is running.
 
2013-10-21 02:42:24 PM

Glitchwerks: NeoCortex42: Just for the record, iPods play mp3 files. My entire collection is mp3 and I've never had a problem. Of course, it does tether you to iTunes. So I can certainly understand avoiding Apple options.

I manage my iPod with Foobar, and I've never had a problem.  Mind you, these are iPod classics because I want the larger capacity and don't really need the bells and whistles of the Touch because my iPod is for exercising or use in the car.

Lsherm: MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.

This.  I installed 8.1 and found my new Logitech F710 wireless controller no longer worked.

I would have just accepted it, but 8.1 ruined my Start screen by turning almost all of my icons a ghastly bright orange color, deleted Avast entirely, and rearranged everything on the Start screen I had perfectly arranged.

I also rolled back, but I was stupid and didn't have a weekly back up, so I spent a good deal of time re-downloading everything in Steam.


I think that 8.1's generally great, but the lack of respect for the pre-existing Start screen icons and layout was an idiotic move.
 
2013-10-21 02:45:39 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.

I'm thinking the people who buy their phones at a supermarket, probably don't care what version of the OS that is running.


Whether they care or not does not matter. These phones are still used to read email, transmit credit card information, log onto private accounts, and log on to wireless networks. In other words, they are used for things where security matters, whether John or Jane Q. Public are smart enough to figure that out or not. Just because people are dumb enough to buy these things doesn't mean they should be sold.
 
2013-10-21 02:48:15 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


Since Windows Phone 8 basically uses the UI that was pioneered in the touch-enabled Zune, your best option is probably to get a Lumia 520 or 521 prepaid phone (they can be found as low as $80 on sale) and just not put the SIM in it. They support up to a 64 GB MicroSD card, so you can get a crapload of music on them while keeping the UI you are accustomed to. Transfer is either drag and drop or via the Windows Phone sync app.

As a bonus, you get the Nokia Music streaming internet radio service for free (it even save stations offline for when you are out of Wi-Fi range) and HERE Maps and Drive (which also work offline like a stand-alone GPS unit if you download maps of your state or country via Wi-Fi), plus it also supports Xbox Music Pass which is basically an update of the old Zune Pass service sans the 10 free downloads a month. You can also browse the web or download apps via Wi-Fi, or snap pics with the camera (which is a good but not great 5 MP).

The screen is not the best in the world, but overall the Lumia 520/521 is the closest thing to a next generation Zune that there is. Plus if you get one that matches your primary cell carrier, it makes a nice backup if your main phone dies mid-contract.
 
2013-10-21 02:48:24 PM
Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....
 
2013-10-21 02:50:59 PM

WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....


You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.
 
2013-10-21 02:53:04 PM
(also, your desktop still exists, just think of it as an app you open. If you wish, you can use Windows 8 in exactly the same manner as Windows 7.... although you shouldn't, once you get used to it and understand the quirks, the new system is incredibly efficient. It just requires setting up.)
 
2013-10-21 02:55:09 PM

Marine1: Slaves2Darkness: Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.

I'm thinking the people who buy their phones at a supermarket, probably don't care what version of the OS that is running.

Whether they care or not does not matter. These phones are still used to read email, transmit credit card information, log onto private accounts, and log on to wireless networks. In other words, they are used for things where security matters, whether John or Jane Q. Public are smart enough to figure that out or not. Just because people are dumb enough to buy these things doesn't mean they should be sold.


Gallant takes the matter up with the supermarket management, the Better Business Bureau and the local Attorney General.

Goofus whines about it on Fark to deflect Microsoft criticisms.
 
2013-10-21 02:57:50 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


SanDisk makes some decent and very cheap mp3 players that accept microSD cards.  Over 64 GB of storage for under $100.  They aren't as nice as the Zune or the iPod, but they get the job done for cheap.
 
2013-10-21 03:02:11 PM

Bungles: (also, your desktop still exists, just think of it as an app you open. If you wish, you can use Windows 8 in exactly the same manner as Windows 7.... although you shouldn't, once you get used to it and understand the quirks, the new system is incredibly efficient. It just requires setting up.)


This would assume that computer folks are capable of adapting to change.  As you can see by these threads they are not.
 
2013-10-21 03:10:16 PM
And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."
 
2013-10-21 03:11:07 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marine1: Slaves2Darkness: Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.

I'm thinking the people who buy their phones at a supermarket, probably don't care what version of the OS that is running.

Whether they care or not does not matter. These phones are still used to read email, transmit credit card information, log onto private a ...


It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of  The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.
 
2013-10-21 03:13:53 PM

rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?


Early WP7 models ended up not being able to upgrade to WP8.  MS offered pretty much all of the new features of WP8 (Task mgmt, tile customization options, etc.) that didn't require majore HW advances in the WP7.8 update.
 
2013-10-21 03:28:40 PM
Do you still think I'm pretty?
 
2013-10-21 03:30:29 PM

ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."



Ummmm.... I'm pretty sure that's not true.
 
2013-10-21 03:40:32 PM

Slaves2Darkness: Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.

I'm thinking the people who buy their phones at a supermarket, probably don't care what version of the OS that is running.


I got my head talked off when I said 'there are still Android tablets running 2.0 at Walgreen's and CVS'
 
2013-10-21 03:56:11 PM

rpm: Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?


Pretty much every WP7 based handset if I remember correctly, there was much shilling around its time of initial release that such things would never ever happen.

Kinda like the old PR bunny spiel that every new version of Windows was a "complete and total rewrite", you knew it was bollocks when they said it but for some reason you just can't fathom... people believe them time and time again.
 
2013-10-21 03:56:53 PM

Bungles: (also, your desktop still exists, just think of it as an app you open. If you wish, you can use Windows 8 in exactly the same manner as Windows 7.... although you shouldn't, once you get used to it and understand the quirks, the new system is incredibly efficient. It just requires setting up.)


I'm overall pleased with the the 8.1 update. I was an early adopter of Windows 8 and use as a Surface Pro as my primary device at home. I was fine with the Mail app before and it's much improved now, and the Music app is finally functional enough that I use it instead of WMC. I would have no  qualms against using the integrated IE app if only they had support for AdBlock and NoScript, but for the most part I've transitioned away from going to the Desktop to do most of my buisness.
 
2013-10-21 03:59:10 PM

gingerjet: demaL-demaL-yeH: Is this about the 8.1 RT update bricking devices?

So this is a problem for who again?  The four or five people who own Surface RT tablets who aren't Microsoft employees?  Not sure I'm seeing why this is news.


Outside of the lack of only being able to run apps on the RT instead of programs, the device is actually pretty nice. Don't know why it's getting so much hate.


/Surface RT user
/Uses it as a supplement, not as a laptop replacement
 
2013-10-21 04:30:19 PM

Sir VG: gingerjet: demaL-demaL-yeH: Is this about the 8.1 RT update bricking devices?

So this is a problem for who again?  The four or five people who own Surface RT tablets who aren't Microsoft employees?  Not sure I'm seeing why this is news.

Outside of the lack of only being able to run apps on the RT instead of programs, the device is actually pretty nice. Don't know why it's getting so much hate.


/Surface RT user
/Uses it as a supplement, not as a laptop replacement


It gets hate because it's put out by Microsoft. Pure and simple. Microsoft and Apple can't seem to escape the reputations they earned in the 90s in the eye of the general public and tech journalists. Microsoft is still seen as an anti-competitive, uninspired, closed off monolithic dinosaur of a company despite the innovations and new directions they've tried or how open they are with the developers that write software for their ecosystems. Meanwhile, Apple is still seen as a cutting edge, groundbreaking free spirited underdog despite the fact that they've grown into a giant megacorp, have been riding the coattails of two product lines for at least the last five years, make their developers pay for the privilege of working with their SDK and generally have been at least as anti-competitive as Microsoft was in the 90s.
 
2013-10-21 04:30:40 PM

styckx: Lsherm: Bungles: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Why? It's lovely, and I go as far as to say elegant if you have a multitouch trackpad.

MAKE SURE YOU'VE CHECKED YOUR DRIVER SUPPORT!

I stupidly installed 8.1 without checking to make sure it was compatible with my desktop and sure enough, my Creative X-Fi Titanium promptly quit working and refused to work no matter what I did.  Creative hasn't even released a statement whether or not 8.1 will be supported.

Thankfully, I take weekly backups so I just rolled back the installation.  I'll wait a few months before trying it again.

I have an X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and it works.. The problem is it doesn't save any settings after a reboot  in Console Launcher now (just like when Windows 8 came out).. Try switching to Entertainment mode and your sound will kick in..
A round about way to save your settings is to put the PC to sleep and it will save them..  Creative always have been, and always will be terrible with driver support..


That's the same card I have.  It worked if I reinstalled the driver, but I couldn't launch the Console to configure anything because it said the card wasn't installed.  No amount of driver cleaning and reinstallation got it back up and running, and after a few hours I got tired of farking with it.  I can wait a few weeks for them to release a new driver.

As for that settings problem, I had to change a boatload of permissions in the registry after I installed 8 in order to get it to work.  There's a write up in the Creative forums somewhere about it.
 
2013-10-21 04:35:54 PM
I didn't run into the exact problem that others ran into with the Surface RT, but it did screw up with mine.  I restored to factory 8.0, ran Windows Update until it was done, then ran Windows Update.  In the midst of updating, the system froze with a black screen a couple of times for about 10 minutes each, then crashed with a bugcheck (BSoD) and rebooted.  Eventually, it came up with the 8.1 OS, but it was clearly corrupted.

It turned out that the 8.1 update successfully updated the recovery partition to 8.1.  I used that to wipe my Surface RT again, and now I have a clean, uncorrupted RT 8.1 installation.

What's strange to me is how this happened.  It's not like Microsoft had thousands of hardware configurations to worry about here - there are what, 10 Windows RT models at most?  Also, the biggest problem was the boot database got corrupted.  How'd that even happen?  Everyone's boot settings are the same - nobody messes with the boot configuration on RT devices except maybe people like me and other hackers (and I wiped my device beforehand, and my problem wasn't boot-related).


Sir VG: Outside of the lack of only being able to run apps on the RT instead of programs, the device is actually pretty nice. Don't know why it's getting so much hate.


That's exactly why it gets so much hate.

I'm actually working on a jailbreak that's compatible with RT 8.1 to let you run non-Microsoft-signed desktop applications.  They have to be compiled for ARM, though, which pretty much restricts it to open-source programs.  No commercial developer would bother compiling their closed-source applications for a platform requiring a jailbreak...  (Unless they were a developer catered to that environment, like the Cydia app store developers.)
 
2013-10-21 04:51:24 PM

xalres: It gets hate because it's put out by Microsoft. Pure and simple.


Yes BUT
The RT version was purposely mis-advertised.

All you saw on the box was MICROSOFT WINDWS 8 RT TABLET.

Very few buyers knew that it ran an OS which would not run any program you already had.

If it had been advertised as the new MS Surface Tab, and not associated with Win8, I don't think they would have gotten the hate.
 
2013-10-21 04:53:15 PM

Marine1: rpm: Marine1: They're far from the worst. The worst are companies that offer Android phones and say "Fark it, buy a new phone" when it comes to updates. As annoying as some of MS's update problems can be, they at least try to patch their mistakes and make improvements.

Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Not quite in the same manner as Android. Windows Phone 7 devices ended up not receiving Windows Phone 8. This understandably made some people mad; on the other hand, Windows Phone 7 required a single-core processor, and probably wouldn't be able to run the software that Microsoft had wanted to add with the update. Microsoft then released a "hold-over" update in the form of Windows Phone 7.8, which added re-sizable Live Tiles and a few other of Windows Phone 8's features to Windows Phone 7 devices. It's not the optimal situation, but I suppose Microsoft  did try to bridge the gap. Windows Phone 7 has more or less disappeared since then, being superseded by Windows Phone 8 models. They're not sold anymore, save overstock and refurbished models. Budget phones running Windows Phone 8 can be found for $100 and up, off-contract.

Android, on the other hand, seems to be a breeding ground for devices that never receive update 1.

[img.fark.net image 850x478]

Android 2.3.5 "Gingerbread" was released on July 25th, 2011. I took this picture at a kiosk at a supermarket behind my apartment last week. These phones are available, right now, with a two-year-old, twice-replaced (at least) operating system running on them. Boost Mobile and AT&T also carry budget phones with insanely outdated versions of Android.


Microsoft did something quite nice here.  The carriers had to sign a license that allows them to skip only minor updates and delay major updates for testing for only a short period.  The carriers don't want you to be able to update your phone's OS, that's money out of their pocket because they want you to buy a new device and extend your contract instead.  Since Android has no central control, there's no requirement for the carrier to push an update to your phone ever.
 
2013-10-21 04:53:19 PM
My surface rt was running 8.1 preview and I updated to the final with no issues.

/while the Xbox music.app is much better I miss the artist full screen images that were what Zune did
 
2013-10-21 04:54:53 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


Unfortunately, the market for dedicated PMPs has been shrinking since the advent of smartphones. Probably the best recommendation I could make for you is a SanDisk Sansa Clip and a 64gb MicroSD card.
 
2013-10-21 05:00:31 PM

HeartBurnKid: Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?

Unfortunately, the market for dedicated PMPs has been shrinking since the advent of smartphones. Probably the best recommendation I could make for you is a SanDisk Sansa Clip and a 64gb MicroSD card.


Actually, if you're handy, you can always try upgrading the hard drive in your Zune.  http://www.rapidrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=cp-100gb_zun e _upgrade

Apparently, it's also possible to replace it with a CompactFlash card with the right adapter; that might be easier than chasing down obsolete hard drives.
 
2013-10-21 05:21:38 PM

styckx: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Uh.. I've had Windows 8 since launch (legit paid for also) and upgraded to 8.1 the day of release.. I've had nothing but a pleasurable experience with it and is definitely better than Windows 7..


I have heard 2 things about Windows 8:

1) It is great if you have a touch screen.

2) It is a PITA to get it configured properly and then offers few benefits to the user while removing some popular features if you don't have a touchscreen.

Windows 8.1 seems to have done a good job alleviating my worries by adding more funtionality similar to previous Windows versions and I feel good about getting Windows 8.1 for my new desktop in the coming months.
I just don't see the downside anymore (new build, so I can get parts that will support it, no real risks there), unless I find a hell of a deal for Windows 7 when I am buying.
 
2013-10-21 05:42:16 PM

dywed88: styckx: enik: If you're stupid enough to use 8.x you deserve everything you get.

Uh.. I've had Windows 8 since launch (legit paid for also) and upgraded to 8.1 the day of release.. I've had nothing but a pleasurable experience with it and is definitely better than Windows 7..

I have heard 2 things about Windows 8:

1) It is great if you have a touch screen.

2) It is a PITA to get it configured properly and then offers few benefits to the user while removing some popular features if you don't have a touchscreen.

Windows 8.1 seems to have done a good job alleviating my worries by adding more funtionality similar to previous Windows versions and I feel good about getting Windows 8.1 for my new desktop in the coming months.
I just don't see the downside anymore (new build, so I can get parts that will support it, no real risks there), unless I find a hell of a deal for Windows 7 when I am buying.


I'd add a good multi-touch touchpad to that, where it also excels - which of course the vast bulk of budget laptops don't have.
 
2013-10-21 05:46:25 PM

Vaneshi: rpm: Except when it comes to phones. Didn't a bunch of Windows phones get farked with the "pay me" on the updates too?

Pretty much every WP7 based handset if I remember correctly, there was much shilling around its time of initial release that such things would never ever happen.

Kinda like the old PR bunny spiel that every new version of Windows was a "complete and total rewrite", you knew it was bollocks when they said it but for some reason you just can't fathom... people believe them time and time again.


They had a final "7.8" version for WP7 that added a lot of the new features that were in WP8, but it got delayed so much it ended up being kind of insulting and trivial to those who had an old handset.  They dropped that update in January this year, when WP8 had came out in October of the year before.

WP7 to WP8 was actually a massive shift, though.  WP7 was the last OS to run on the Windows CE kernel.  WP8 is on the NT kernel.

Even though they look very similar, the programming underneath is much different, with the end goal of making it easier to port between normal Windows and Windows Phone.
 
2013-10-21 06:17:58 PM
While on the topic of desktop wallpapers...

img.fark.net
 
2013-10-21 06:26:10 PM
Marine1
It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.

So the takeaway here is "buy an iPhone".

Got it.
 
2013-10-21 06:54:30 PM

Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.


Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.
 
2013-10-21 07:01:12 PM

WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.


Then go download one of the start button apps.  If your present computer with 7 or XP etc makes you happy don't upgrade.  If you get a new Win 8 machine, no point in nuking it and losing the under the hood improvements if downloading one tiny app will give you the best of both worlds.

Of just click on the start screen and begin typing the name of the program you want, voila it will appear.  Hell even put a shortcut on your desktop, pin it to the taskbar there.  Long story short, NOT A BIG DEAL.
 
2013-10-21 07:12:32 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.

Then go download one of the start button apps.  If your present computer with 7 or XP etc makes you happy don't upgrade.  If you get a new Win 8 machine, no point in nuking it and losing the under the hood improvements if downloading one tiny app will give you the best of both worlds.

Of just click on the start screen and begin typing the name of the program you want, voila it will appear.  Hell even put a shortcut on ...


Just install Classic Shell and be done with it.. Works perfect on 8.1 also..
 
2013-10-21 07:13:46 PM

WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.


Your WIndows 7 style desktop is still there, if you want to use it.

If you want it to be literally identical to Windows 7, just install this:  http://www.classicshell.net/  and then your Start button is can be whatever you wish, even like Windows 95 if that floats your boat.


But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 07:32:08 PM

Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.


Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?
 
2013-10-21 07:43:19 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.

Then go download one of the start button apps.  If your present computer with 7 or XP etc makes you happy don't upgrade.  If you get a new Win 8 machine, no point in nuking it and losing the under the hood improvements if downloading one tiny app will give you the best of both worlds.

Of just click on the start screen and begin typing the name of the program you want, voila it will appear.  Hell even put a shortcut on ...


All the ones I found cost money. I certainly won't be upgrading any other machines to Win8.1 but I had a free license and had some issues on my home desktop so I figured why not give it a shot. And the type-to-search would be nice (like it was in Win7) if not for the horrendous delay it has. I don't understand why as it's a fresh install but my four year old Win7 installation never had such a delay. I suppose it's a result of a new approach to program/file searching?

I also haven't noticed any under-the-hood improvements but I work mostly with someone specialized software (I'm a scientist) and I didn't notice any improvement in (for example) Matlab execution time, execution of C++ code, or any graphics packages.

I think this article sums it up well: http://www.technologyreview.com/review/511116/windows-8-design-over-u s ability/
 
2013-10-21 07:44:35 PM

rpm: Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?


You don't have to click a search box. Just type
 
2013-10-21 07:47:09 PM

Bungles: If you want it to be literally identical to Windows 7, just install this:  http://www.classicshell.net/  and then your Start button is can be whatever you wish, even like Windows 95 if that floats your boat.


But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 prog

in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Thanks. I didn't realize this one was free (donate). I'll happily donate for a good utility. I still beg to differ about the "smooth and wonderful." It requires so much mouse movement on a large screen and still requires you to memorize pictographs. I'll take a tight text menu any day.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 08:00:01 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: rpm: Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?

You don't have to click a search box. Just type


What click? Windows key already works just fine,so you are just typing. One key doesn't change much compared to the start time of the program.
 
2013-10-21 08:00:05 PM

HeartBurnKid: Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?

Unfortunately, the market for dedicated PMPs has been shrinking since the advent of smartphones. Probably the best recommendation I could make for you is a SanDisk Sansa Clip and a 64gb MicroSD card.


The Wife and I both have Sansa clips with large microSD cards. We love the little things.

Going on about 4 years now, works like a charm. Very simple interface, drag-and-drop audio files without any additional programs or iTunes nonsense.

Can't recommend them highly enough.
 
2013-10-21 08:00:45 PM

WxAxGxS: Bungles: If you want it to be literally identical to Windows 7, just install this:  http://www.classicshell.net/  and then your Start button is can be whatever you wish, even like Windows 95 if that floats your boat.


But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 prog in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Thanks. I didn't realize this one was free (donate). I'll happily donate for a good utility. I still beg to differ about the "smooth and wonderful." It requires so much mouse movement on a large screen and still requires you to memorize pictographs. I'll take a tight text menu any day.



Personally, I wouldn't really use a mouse. It's glorious on a multitouch pad on a laptop (which takes some getting used to,given it's the inverse of when it used to be like)
 
2013-10-21 08:05:46 PM

rpm: Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?


 The function of the feature itself is much improved.  Much faster and much better logic in the results.
 
2013-10-21 08:05:58 PM

WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.


There is sort of what you want in 8.1 right click on the taskbar select navigation and you can select instead of the start screen you can go directly to the app view or list desktop apps only and they can be sorted by either date installed, most used, name or category. The nice thing about most used it breaks it down further to moderate, occasional and never. Think of it as  a more advanced start menu but in one view rather than tiles.
 
2013-10-21 08:10:10 PM
Eh, I had some issues on my desktop, but that's because it's a custom build. Had to piss around with Catalyst Control and my AMD drivers, but it's working fine now. No issues on my laptop. I've had better luck with 8/8.1 than iOS 7.

Anyone use the Netflix app? TBH, I think it's the best platform for it, and I've used it in the browser, on a blu-ray player, on iOS, and on Android. The other metro apps seem to suck, and I think it's because the developers just can't be arsed. However, Facebook apps tend to suck in general.
 
2013-10-21 08:12:41 PM

BohemianGraham: Eh, I had some issues on my desktop, but that's because it's a custom build. Had to piss around with Catalyst Control and my AMD drivers, but it's working fine now. No issues on my laptop. I've had better luck with 8/8.1 than iOS 7.

Anyone use the Netflix app? TBH, I think it's the best platform for it, and I've used it in the browser, on a blu-ray player, on iOS, and on Android. The other metro apps seem to suck, and I think it's because the developers just can't be arsed. However, Facebook apps tend to suck in general.


I have no idea why Facebook doesn't just do a "exactly like it is in a browser" app.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 08:17:17 PM

CmndrFish: rpm: Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?

 The function of the feature itself is much improved.  Much faster and much better logic in the results.


Better logic how? I've never had any problems with it (well, for apps. The suggestions for docs blow chunks). Speed hasn't been too bad considering I have hundreds of apps installed. I'd probably notice faster, but it's not slow enough that I think "I wish this was faster"
 
2013-10-21 08:26:00 PM

We apologize for the fault in the updates.  Those responsible have been sacked.




Vie not trei a holday in Sweden 'dis year?

 
2013-10-21 08:37:18 PM

Orgasmatron138: Crudbucket: Bring back the Zune!

I like my Zune. I already had my music collection stored on my computer, so when I got the Zune I didn't have to convert the mp3s to whatever Apple's format is.

The only problem is that the 30 gig one I have is now too small.  I need to get a large capacity mp3 player, but I don't want to get another Zune if it's not supported anymore.

Anyone have any non-Apple suggestions?


Sansa makes one.
 
2013-10-21 09:29:05 PM

Marine1: Pharque-it: I am using XP, so I get a kick out of this...
Had to spend an hour to get rid of endless repeating updates of dotNet 2.5 upgrades...
And their dotNet cleaning tool did not work off course...
They sure know how to upgrade their own software. And provide non-working clean-up tools.

Your answer to this question will dictate how I view you for the rest of this thread, and perhaps beyond:

Are you in a situation where you  have to use XP?

/girlfriend's tablet updated without problems
//good thing, too, because I was in no mood.

 

Have to use WinXP? No, but I refuse to jump on MacroShiat's upgrade circus. I have used MS windows since 2.0 and been disappointed ever since. It is not by any professional definition a full blown OS. Every version since WinXP offers marginal benefits, they are still based on the fundamentally sick platform, and have so many issues, primarily security ones, that they cannot be used in a critical environments.
Neither can XP, which I use privately, and solely due to software availability. I do not want to buy new MS products or other companies SW to match their more resent non-innovative "upgrades". They offer little improvement over what I already paid for.
I am done with MS and their SW, and I am just waiting for the moment to port to something that is not a patchwork, and that has basic OS functions like task/user, task/task isolation (no memory leakage), real time (not just human RT) performance, real preemptive multitasking, memory management worth the name, with garbage collection, effective segment swapping algorithms, and utilizes the intel system architecture as it was intended from 80286 onwards. Windows does not cut it. Just the need of restarts tells it all....
MS has farked this chicken so badly, in an undeserved successful (and predatory) way, for so many years, and prevented the evolution of OS' for the last 15 years. "Good enough" has never been my guiding star.
I have no admiration for MS. I just want them to go away. I am happy to see them lose out on mobile devices.
 
2013-10-21 10:31:54 PM

rpm: CmndrFish: rpm: Bungles: But you really should type with the new system.... it's different, but it's far, far more efficient than the old system. I use probably 30 programs in a normal work week: once I'd set it up, it's smooth and wonderful.

Everyone says that, press the Windows key, type the name of the program, done. But I've been doing that since Vista, what's new about it?

 The function of the feature itself is much improved.  Much faster and much better logic in the results.

Better logic how? I've never had any problems with it (well, for apps. The suggestions for docs blow chunks). Speed hasn't been too bad considering I have hundreds of apps installed. I'd probably notice faster, but it's not slow enough that I think "I wish this was faster"


It's instantaneous now.  And yeah, it's much better with finding files.  Actually searches partial names properly now.
 
2013-10-21 10:46:41 PM

ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."


This couldn't be further from the truth. Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve. Even further, I had to look up how to install 8.1 because it didn't even show up as an option in Windows Update.

Maybe, if I was some kind of putz who didn't change the settings from default, you would have half a point. Then again, if I was that kind of putz, I would probably be better off taking every update that came along.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 11:11:56 PM

thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve


Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.
 
2013-10-21 11:25:58 PM

rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.


Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.
 
rpm
2013-10-21 11:36:05 PM

Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.


Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?
 
2013-10-21 11:51:13 PM

rpm: Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.

Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?


Which one?  Looks like they've got 4 on my machine, so 2020, 2021, 2035, or 2036.  Verisign has at least three, one of which expired in 2004.

Why in the hell would you want root certs on your system to expire?
 
2013-10-22 01:57:55 AM

ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."


Yes, that is retarded about Windows RT.  To fix it, open regedit, then go to this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update

Change the "AUOptions" value from 4 to 2, then reboot.  Now it'll tell you about updates being available when you're at the login screen, but you'll have to go to Windows Update to actually install them when you want them.
 
2013-10-22 02:08:29 AM

Myria: ikanreed: And microsoft will not allow you, under any circumstances to prevent an update, short of never going on the internet again.  "We know better than you how you want to use your computer."

Yes, that is retarded about Windows RT.  To fix it, open regedit, then go to this registry key:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\ Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\Auto Update

Change the "AUOptions" value from 4 to 2, then reboot.  Now it'll tell you about updates being available when you're at the login screen, but you'll have to go to Windows Update to actually install them when you want them.


Can you open regedit on RT?
 
2013-10-22 05:29:53 AM

xalres: It gets hate because it's put out by Microsoft. Pure and simple. Microsoft and Apple can't seem to escape the reputations they earned in the 90s in the eye of the general public and tech journalists. Microsoft is still seen as an anti-competitive, uninspired, closed off monolithic dinosaur of a company despite the innovations and new directions they've tried or how open they are with the developers that write software for their ecosystems. Meanwhile, Apple is still seen as a cutting edge, groundbreaking free spirited underdog despite the fact that they've grown into a giant megacorp, have been riding the coattails of two product lines for at least the last five years, make their developers pay for the privilege of working with their SDK and generally have been at least as anti-competitive as Microsoft was in the 90s.


True. I'll give you that one. But I'll be honest, as much as I dislike Microsoft as a company and some of the decisions they've made lately, I like Surface.

Myria: I'm actually working on a jailbreak that's compatible with RT 8.1 to let you run non-Microsoft-signed desktop applications.  They have to be compiled for ARM, though, which pretty much restricts it to open-source programs.  No commercial developer would bother compiling their closed-source applications for a platform requiring a jailbreak...  (Unless they were a developer catered to that environment, like the Cydia app store developers.)


There is already a jailbreak out there for 8 (I use it to run FileZilla). I would suspect it would run with 8.1 but haven't installed 8.1 so I can't be 100% for certain. Here's a link:  http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158">http://foru m.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2092158

Lsherm: Can you open regedit on RT?


Yes.
 
2013-10-22 08:16:09 AM

WxAxGxS: Representative of the unwashed masses: WxAxGxS: Bungles: WxAxGxS: Windows 8.1 (never tried Windows 8) is a mess. Apparently it's a "better" user experience to fill up your screen with pictographs and flashy transitions rather than providing a fast and efficient means of opening programs and transitioning between them. I click the start menu and I get a blank page other than a little button in the bottom corner. I have to move my mouse to click on that to get a programs list. Of course, the font for that programs list is so massive that it only displays the first ten or so letters and I get to guess which button is correct. Not to mention they somehow broke the "type to search" function and what was effectively instantaneous in Win7 now takes a few seconds. I'd reinstall Windows 7 if it weren't a computer I only use to play movies....

You pin your go-to programs to your start screen. It works exactly as you described wanting it to.

Except it doesn't. I don't read pictograph and a nice, compact list of all the things I want is far more efficient. With 20+ programs I use in a typical week why can't there be a start menu with a text-based list of everything I want with a small section of the five or ten most used programs (just like I can in Windows 7 or most Linux GUIs?). Maybe there is a way to eliminate all the graphics and change the font size but I haven't yet found it. It seems Microsoft's idea of modernizing things is to reduce shortcuts and increase the number of clicks required to access anything. It also seems they've eliminated a lot of means of operating the computer mouse-free.

Then go download one of the start button apps.  If your present computer with 7 or XP etc makes you happy don't upgrade.  If you get a new Win 8 machine, no point in nuking it and losing the under the hood improvements if downloading one tiny app will give you the best of both worlds.

Of just click on the start screen and begin typing the name of the program you want, voila it wi ...


Apart from classic shell, there's also Start Menu 8
http://download.cnet.com/Start-Menu-8/3000-2072_4-75852660.html
 
rpm
2013-10-22 09:48:37 AM

Lsherm: rpm: Lsherm: rpm: thurstonxhowell: Microsoft never installs an update that I don't approve

Check your root certs list lately? You'll find updates in the event log even with automatic updating turned off.

Oh, COME ON.  Those have to be updated or it's gross negligence; you'd have an inoperable OS.  That's not an "update" - it's making sure they can actually deliver updates in the future if you want them.

Really? When does the root cert for MS expire?

Which one?  Looks like they've got 4 on my machine, so 2020, 2021, 2035, or 2036.  Verisign has at least three, one of which expired in 2004.

Why in the hell would you want root certs on your system to expire?


You don't want them to expire. But when you tell the system don't update until I tell you, it shouldn't farking update until you tell it.

There's no worries about the ones associated with updates expiring, so your excuse of them updating when auto update is off is bogus.
 
2013-10-22 10:37:53 AM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marine1
It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.

So the takeaway here is "buy an iPhone".

Got it.


Or a Windows Phone. Or a high-end Android device. 

As FOSS becomes more popular and a means to make money, this problem will continue to grow. When code is out there, it's out there forever. Current licensure schemes don't require updates or that device makers/software providers use the most recent version. As a result, companies will make cheap devices running on less expensive hardware, and because the hardware is lower performance, they can't run more up-to-date software on it, so they use the older software. No one can tell them "no".
 
2013-10-22 10:42:17 AM

Pharque-it: Marine1: Pharque-it: I am using XP, so I get a kick out of this...
Had to spend an hour to get rid of endless repeating updates of dotNet 2.5 upgrades...
And their dotNet cleaning tool did not work off course...
They sure know how to upgrade their own software. And provide non-working clean-up tools.

Your answer to this question will dictate how I view you for the rest of this thread, and perhaps beyond:

Are you in a situation where you  have to use XP?

/girlfriend's tablet updated without problems
//good thing, too, because I was in no mood.
 

Have to use WinXP? No, but I refuse to jump on MacroShiat's upgrade circus. I have used MS windows since 2.0 and been disappointed ever since. It is not by any professional definition a full blown OS. Every version since WinXP offers marginal benefits, they are still based on the fundamentally sick platform, and have so many issues, primarily security ones, that they cannot be used in a critical environments.
Neither can XP, which I use privately, and solely due to software availability. I do not want to buy new MS products or other companies SW to match their more resent non-innovative "upgrades". They offer little improvement over what I already paid for.
I am done with MS and their SW, and I am just waiting for the moment to port to something that is not a patchwork, and that has basic OS functions like task/user, task/task isolation (no memory leakage), real time (not just human RT) performance, real preemptive multitasking, memory management worth the name, with garbage collection, effective segment swapping algorithms, and utilizes the intel system architecture as it was intended from 80286 onwards. Windows does not cut it. Just the need of restarts tells it all....
MS has farked this chicken so badly, in an undeserved successful (and predatory) way, for so many years, and prevented the evolution of OS' for the last 15 years. "Good enough" has never been my guiding star.
I have no admiration for MS. I just want them ...


So, your solution to this supposed conundrum is to use an operating system riddled with security holes that will stop receiving updates in April of next year (7 months from now). Not switching to Linux, not using a Mac, not realizing that there are actual differences between XP and 7/8/8.1... just using ancient software that you haven't liked since the 1980s. 

Jeeze.
 
2013-10-22 06:07:45 PM

Marine1: MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Marine1
It's an often-overlooked problem, even in the tech community. If I can talk about it here, I will. There's a problem with today's open-source software: it allows crap like that to happen. They might as well have a stock boy standing next to that kiosk feeding copies of The Cathedral and the Bazaar into a shredder.

So the takeaway here is "buy an iPhone".

Got it.

Or a Windows Phone. Or a high-end Android device. 

As FOSS becomes more popular and a means to make money, this problem will continue to grow. When code is out there, it's out there forever. Current licensure schemes don't require updates or that device makers/software providers use the most recent version. As a result, companies will make cheap devices running on less expensive hardware, and because the hardware is lower performance, they can't run more up-to-date software on it, so they use the older software. No one can tell them "no".


I'm starting to feel that, unless you're techy enough to know (or want to learn) how to root your phone and flash custom ROMs, the only Android device you should go anywhere near is the Nexus.  And even that, only on GSM carriers.
 
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