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(Reuters)   Chinese city of 11 million people shut down due to smog. When visibility is reduced to 10 meters, you just might have a slight air pollution problem. w/pics   (reuters.com) divider line 127
    More: Scary, Chinese, Heilongjiang Province, air pollution, Jilin province, Sina Weibo, Cities in China, Changchun, slight  
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16294 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2013 at 12:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



127 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-10-21 10:31:01 AM  
All I can see is a bunch of people looking pretty damn liberated from job-killing environmental regulations and the shackles of the EPA.
 
2013-10-21 10:44:49 AM  
The best part, all this smog will eventually drift downwind, hitting the Western USA.

Where we'll blame it on our own cars.

Meanwhile, we will also keep shipping China all the crappy Montana coal we can, stuff thats too dirty to burn here, we will ship them to burn there.

Circle of life on the Pacific Rim. As long as we can export 2nd wave industrialism, we can feel great about ourselves sitting atop a post-industrial economy here.
 
2013-10-21 10:47:38 AM  
No pictures in the mobile version for me. Anyone care to post one or two?
 
2013-10-21 10:52:21 AM  

Generation_D: The best part, all this smog will eventually drift downwind, hitting the Western USA.


No, the best part is all the people that will claim "this won't happen here" and "the free market will keep this from happening."
 
2013-10-21 10:56:30 AM  
When everything in your house says "Made in China" you can figure out why they have a pollution problem. Good side of everything being made in China instead of the US is that the US has much better air quality now. Pittsburgh and other rust belt cities used to have terrible air quality and toxic waste from their manufacturing plants, steel plants, etc.
 
2013-10-21 11:23:03 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: No pictures in the mobile version for me. Anyone care to post one or two?


i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com


shiat man, they need a skyscraper that does nothing but scrub the city's air.
 
2013-10-21 11:26:45 AM  

factoryconnection: All I can see is a bunch of people looking pretty damn liberated from job-killing environmental regulations and the shackles of the EPA.


The free market will solve this problem.
 
2013-10-21 11:41:10 AM  
Somacandra:

shiat man, they need a skyscraper that does nothing but scrub the city's air.

The terraforming unit in Aliens comes to mind...
 
2013-10-21 11:52:18 AM  

Somacandra: Three Crooked Squirrels: No pictures in the mobile version for me. Anyone care to post one or two?

[i.imgur.com image 450x261]

[i.imgur.com image 450x300]


shiat man, they need a skyscraper that does nothing but scrub the city's air.


I wonder if a shiat-ton of plants would help? I have this urge to start putting up houseplants everywhere in the pics.

/obviously, better would be the regulation to stop it in the first place, and there do seem to be hints China is going that way, but dayum...
 
2013-10-21 11:53:15 AM  

Mentat: The free market will solve this problem.


The free market, in China. Yeah. Sure. Pull one of the other ones, they have bells on them.

Oh wait, were you be sarcastic? Because we all know that China has the freest freedom that has ever been freed. No way is the state responsible for this! There is no way! It's unimaginable! It's those evil fat cats in the private sector! No way a government can be responsible for anything baaaaddddd.
 
2013-10-21 11:54:51 AM  
A beautiful sight to corporate America.
 
2013-10-21 12:12:08 PM  
tons of Asians. Smog. How do we know that's not a picture of LA?
 
2013-10-21 12:12:52 PM  
Enjoy your cheap Chinese crap!
 
2013-10-21 12:14:26 PM  
Damn, they must be pissed. The smog is blocking their view of their socialist utopia.
 
2013-10-21 12:17:20 PM  
There but for the grace of Richard M. Nixon, EPA creator, goes LA.

One point for the SOB. Like Margaret Thatcher, he pulled an pro-environmental Tricky out of pure spitefulness. Thatcher used global warming to thump the miners unions, and Nixon used the great dragon Smaug to destroy the evil libtard dwarves that thwarted his Regal whims.

Although I approve of this policy, I still think the King is a Fink.

Few people know this, but the evil eye in the Lord of the Rings was modeled on Nixon.

Yes, it is a one eyed trouser snake. But above all, it is a giant Dick.
 
2013-10-21 12:17:26 PM  
And the phlegm and mucus hits the sidewalks. Tons of nostrils.
 
2013-10-21 12:17:32 PM  
APPROVES!

www.personal.psu.edu
 
2013-10-21 12:18:25 PM  

Mentat: factoryconnection: All I can see is a bunch of people looking pretty damn liberated from job-killing environmental regulations and the shackles of the EPA.

The free market will solve this problem.


Eventually.  It will just take a lot of dead people first.
 
2013-10-21 12:18:41 PM  
Welcome to Obama's China.
 
2013-10-21 12:18:49 PM  
Well somebody has to actually produce the things we use in the West. You thought a country filled with accountants, real estate agents and bureaucrats produces anything??
 
2013-10-21 12:21:31 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: Damn, they must be pissed. The smog is blocking their view of their socialist  capitalist utopia.


FTFY, because what you see in those pics is the closest thing to an unregulated marketplace of any currently industrialized nation. Take away their "cadre" of dynastic communist electors and replace it with the hereditary billionaire owners of American corporations and their paid off electors and you have every Libertarian's wet dream in China, happening right now. The only difference between us is the rapidly disappearing gap between wealth and direct political power here in the US, and the few regulations that the GOP grudgingly allow us to keep on our industries.
 
2013-10-21 12:22:08 PM  
So everything we are getting from there is covered in this soot? Sounds like the Onceler lives there!
 
2013-10-21 12:24:56 PM  

brandent: Eventually. It will just take a lot of dead people first.


The Chinese are killing us now on trade, mostly by killing their own to promote growth.
 
2013-10-21 12:25:10 PM  

factoryconnection: All I can see is a bunch of people looking pretty damn liberated from job-killing environmental regulations and the shackles of the EPA.


I can't believe people still use this argument (and I'm aware of your sarcasm). This is Louisville, KY pre-EPA.
 
2013-10-21 12:26:07 PM  
I think I'd have an asthma attack and die, about 10 seconds after walking out into that.
 
2013-10-21 12:27:35 PM  
An index measuring PM2.5, or particulate matter with a diameter of 2.5 micrometers (PM2.5), reached a reading of 1,000 in some parts of Harbin, the gritty capital of northeastern Heilongjiang province and home to some 11 million people.
A level above 300 is considered hazardous


Does anyone know anything about these numbers? at what point do you just die like you're trying to breath on an inhospitable planet?

 mygeekblasphemy.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-10-21 12:27:59 PM  

brandent: Mentat: factoryconnection: All I can see is a bunch of people looking pretty damn liberated from job-killing environmental regulations and the shackles of the EPA.

The free market will solve this problem.

Eventually.  It will just take a lot of dead people first.


Dead people are just part of the cost of doing business.
 
2013-10-21 12:31:12 PM  
Unpossible! I've been assured that China is the world leader in the super clean, rainbow emitting green energy
 
2013-10-21 12:32:54 PM  
Drill baby Drill and burn baby burn.  Wasn't that the battle cry of the GOP last election?
 
2013-10-21 12:33:18 PM  
This is all because we didn't sign Kyoto.
 
2013-10-21 12:33:33 PM  

deadsanta: FTFY, because what you see in those pics is the closest thing to an unregulated marketplace of any currently industrialized nation. Take away their "cadre" of dynastic communist electors and replace it with the hereditary billionaire owners of American corporations and their paid off electors and you have every Libertarian's wet dream in China, happening right now. The only difference between us is the rapidly disappearing gap between wealth and direct political power here in the US, and the few regulations that the GOP grudgingly allow us to keep on our industries.


Just a little off. At the best you're looking at what happens when the state can hand out monopolies. The state gives you the right and obligations to run an entire sector of the economy any way you see fit. Just so long as you are keeping the states coffers full there will be no problems and no competition. It is in the best interest of the corporation heads to maximize profits and there is no down side to their actions so they don't spend money on silly things like air filters or proper waste disposal.

If we were dealing with a free market someone would come along to do it better. They could produce a cleaner product and the populace could reward that company with their hard earned currency. But you need two things to happen to see that result. Companies need to be free to enter the market place and you need a free press to be able to report about what the companies are doing. You have neither in China.
 
2013-10-21 12:34:56 PM  

deadsanta: Pointy Tail of Satan: Damn, they must be pissed. The smog is blocking their view of their socialist  capitalist utopia.

FTFY, because what you see in those pics is the closest thing to an unregulated marketplace of any currently industrialized nation. Take away their "cadre" of dynastic communist electors and replace it with the hereditary billionaire owners of American corporations and their paid off electors and you have every Libertarian's wet dream in China, happening right now. The only difference between us is the rapidly disappearing gap between wealth and direct political power here in the US, and the few regulations that the GOP grudgingly allow us to keep on our industries.


China is a small govt, pro freedom utopia? Get your money back. School has failed you. Sophistry of the absurd is not an argument, but, it does "out" the truly deluded.
 
2013-10-21 12:36:23 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mentat: The free market will solve this problem.

The free market, in China. Yeah. Sure. Pull one of the other ones, they have bells on them.

Oh wait, were you be sarcastic? Because we all know that China has the freest freedom that has ever been freed. No way is the state responsible for this! There is no way! It's unimaginable! It's those evil fat cats in the private sector! No way a government can be responsible for anything baaaaddddd.


China is communist in name only. In actual practice, most small and mid-scale industry is very capitalist and market-driven. The government only really gets involved if you agitate for more freedom or need a permit or land or infrastructure (and thus need to supply a bribe to someone in power).
 
2013-10-21 12:39:35 PM  
Even if everyone in the city of Harbin (11 million) dies of smog, China would still have 1.350 billion people to "help setup" the Harbin International Ice and Snow Sculpture Festival.

/Blog that has some pics of the festival:
//http://edweb.tusd.k12.az.us/sandre/harbin_ice.htm
///Apparently it gets cold there:
////http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/Harbin+CHXX0046:1:CH
//slashies
 
2013-10-21 12:40:20 PM  

deadsanta: Pointy Tail of Satan: Damn, they must be pissed. The smog is blocking their view of their socialist  capitalist utopia.

FTFY, because what you see in those pics is the closest thing to an unregulated marketplace of any currently industrialized nation. Take away their "cadre" of dynastic communist electors and replace it with the hereditary billionaire owners of American corporations and their paid off electors and you have every Libertarian's wet dream in China, happening right now. The only difference between us is the rapidly disappearing gap between wealth and direct political power here in the US, and the few regulations that the GOP grudgingly allow us to keep on our industries.


www.longislandphotoblog.com
 
2013-10-21 12:40:54 PM  

jshine: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mentat: The free market will solve this problem.

The free market, in China. Yeah. Sure. Pull one of the other ones, they have bells on them.

Oh wait, were you be sarcastic? Because we all know that China has the freest freedom that has ever been freed. No way is the state responsible for this! There is no way! It's unimaginable! It's those evil fat cats in the private sector! No way a government can be responsible for anything baaaaddddd.

China is communist in name only. In actual practice, most small and mid-scale industry is very capitalist and market-driven. The government only really gets involved if you agitate for more freedom or need a permit or land or infrastructure (and thus need to supply a bribe to someone in power).



 The Stealth Hippopotamus: Mentat: The free market will solve this problem.

The free market, in China. Yeah. Sure. Pull one of the other ones, they have bells on them.

Oh wait, were you be sarcastic? Because we all know that China has the freest freedom that has ever been freed. No way is the state responsible for this! There is no way! It's unimaginable! It's those evil fat cats in the private sector! No way a government can be responsible for anything baaaaddddd.



and it could have something to do with the fact that the Chinese government owns the businesses which produce 50% of Chinese goods and services and employs 1/2 it's workers while maintaining strict controls over the businesses which it does not outright own.

 
2013-10-21 12:43:18 PM  
The Harkonnens would dig it there.

kunochan.com
 
2013-10-21 12:43:22 PM  
Build skyscraper cities above the clouds, it worked in the Fifth Element.
 
2013-10-21 12:44:21 PM  
Yeah, we don't need no stinking regulations or EPA.  That could be us.
 
2013-10-21 12:44:22 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: If we were dealing with a free market someone would come along to do it better. They could produce a cleaner product and the populace could reward that company with their hard earned currency. But you need two things to happen to see that result. Companies need to be free to enter the market place and you need a free press to be able to report about what the companies are doing. You have neither in China.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
2013-10-21 12:46:40 PM  
We never got smog days when I went to school.
 
2013-10-21 12:51:00 PM  

uncleacid: We never got smog days when I went to school.


We did, living in Santa Barbara in the late seventies. Sometimes the smog would roll up the coast from LA. Not often, probably not even once a year. But it happened every now and then.
 
2013-10-21 12:52:08 PM  

deadsanta: Pointy Tail of Satan: Damn, they must be pissed. The smog is blocking their view of their socialist  capitalist utopia.

FTFY, because what you see in those pics is the closest thing to an unregulated marketplace of any currently industrialized nation. Take away their "cadre" of dynastic communist electors and replace it with the hereditary billionaire owners of American corporations and their paid off electors and you have every Libertarian's wet dream in China, happening right now. The only difference between us is the rapidly disappearing gap between wealth and direct political power here in the US, and the few regulations that the GOP grudgingly allow us to keep on our industries.


Thank God for Democrats like Richard Nixon.

Really, guys, I don't get why liberals try to use a communist country's pollution problem as some sort of indictment of capitalism and/or the GOP.  There are a lot better examples.  A ton.  Trying to use China comes off as desperate overreaching.
 
2013-10-21 12:52:15 PM  
FTFA:
The smog not only forced all primary and middle schools to suspend classes, but shut the airport and some public bus routes, the official Xinhua news agency reported, blaming the emergency on the first day of the heating being turned on in the city for winter.

WTF do they use for heating, clogged up braziers burning the lowest grade of brown coal and asphalt mixed with bunker fuel?
 
2013-10-21 12:53:30 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-10-21 12:53:42 PM  

skullkrusher: and it could have something to do with the fact that the Chinese government owns the businesses which produce 50% of Chinese goods and services and employs 1/2 it's workers while maintaining strict controls over the businesses which it does not outright own.


jshine: China is communist in name only. In actual practice, most small and mid-scale industry is very capitalist and market-driven. The government only really gets involved if you agitate for more freedom or need a permit or land or infrastructure (and thus need to supply a bribe to someone in power).


annnnnnnnnnd fight!

But really you're both kind of right. The vast majority of China is under an iron fist however even the Chinese have admitted that communism doesn't work. The Chinese have set up fun little areas called "Special Economic Zones" where people are actually allowed to operate a business!! These tiny little places are allow much more freedom then the rest of main land China. The vast majority of innovations come from these areas. Go figure people left alone (for the most part) coming up with good ideas?!?
 
2013-10-21 12:54:23 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


OH wait, he's serious?
HA.0x1036
 
2013-10-21 12:55:17 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: skullkrusher: and it could have something to do with the fact that the Chinese government owns the businesses which produce 50% of Chinese goods and services and employs 1/2 it's workers while maintaining strict controls over the businesses which it does not outright own.

jshine: China is communist in name only. In actual practice, most small and mid-scale industry is very capitalist and market-driven. The government only really gets involved if you agitate for more freedom or need a permit or land or infrastructure (and thus need to supply a bribe to someone in power).

annnnnnnnnnd fight!

But really you're both kind of right. The vast majority of China is under an iron fist however even the Chinese have admitted that communism doesn't work. The Chinese have set up fun little areas called "Special Economic Zones" where people are actually allowed to operate a business!! These tiny little places are allow much more freedom then the rest of main land China. The vast majority of innovations come from these areas. Go figure people left alone (for the most part) coming up with good ideas?!?


their responsibility for the majority of Chinese GDP is really more specifically socialist than actually communist but whatever
 
2013-10-21 12:55:38 PM  

ReverendJasen: Yeah, we don't need no stinking regulations or EPA.  That could be us.


Clearly the Chinese government doesn't have enough power over there to regulate and prevent these pollutants.  They need to get rid of the right wing extremists in their government that are blocking all the legislation that has been introduced to combat this and raise taxes.
 
2013-10-21 12:56:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Just a little off. At the best you're looking at what happens when the state can hand out monopolies.


China is kinda the worst of all worlds.
1. Corruption: bribe the right guys, do whatever the hell you like as long as the party doesn't get embarrassed nor stiffed.  See: earthquake damage as a result of well-connected construction firms cutting corners as general practice
2. Communism: there are reams of loosely-enforced laws that can be brought swiftly to bear should #1 not be satisfied
3. Collectivism: folks there have bought off on collective suffering for "societal" success, even if that is concentrating wealth in the hands of party higher-ups and corporate plutocrats.  They will straight-out f*ck over hundreds of thousands if not millions of people if they deem the ends justifying the means.
4. Capitalism: they have tasted the fruit of supplying Western companies with cheaper labor and now have sown a domestic consumer class and do not appear to give one slim f*ck about what it will take to keep that flow of money going
5. Crowding: problems are immediately exacerbated by volume alone.
 
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