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(CNBC)   Student loans are possibly the most impossible debt for anyone to understand and pay off   (cnbc.com) divider line 268
    More: Scary, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, National Consumer Law Center, student loans, loan servicer  
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11757 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Oct 2013 at 12:52 AM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-20 11:50:09 PM
 
2013-10-20 11:53:01 PM
Other creditors pull these tricks with other types of credit, but student loan lenders are just extra bastard-y about it.
 
2013-10-21 12:04:37 AM
At a certain level there need to be penalties for failing to pay back loans you take out.  When you take out a loan the responsible thing to do is to pay it back by any means necessary, even if that means lowering your standard of living to do so.

At the same time, companies that are profiteering from this need to be reined in.  We need stronger usury laws when it comes to student debt, as well as standardized and mandatory disclosures at the point or origination so that those signing up know exactly what they're getting into.

If all else fails, there should be a means to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.  My suggestion would be to allow the discharge on the condition that all credits or degrees earned which were paid for fully or in any part with the loan money be immediately revoked and invalidated.  That would prevent anyone from defaulting after graduation to game the system.

We should also look at tuition rates of any schools that receive federal or state funds, and look at setting limits for tuition rates for those schools if they choose to continue receiving those funds.  Developing a universal post-secondary education system such as exists in various places in Europe may also be worth looking into.
 
2013-10-21 12:14:10 AM

TuteTibiImperes: That would prevent anyone from defaulting after graduation to game the system.


Makes you wonder how much they owe. Most of them are on the run. Don't even use their farking social security numbers. If there was just some way to find out how much the motherfarkers owe and making them pay.
 
2013-10-21 12:14:18 AM
Another thing the government could do would be to set up a program for student-loan forgiveness in exchange for working in critical need areas.

People having trouble finding work with degrees in English, History, etc, could be given the option of teaching in poor or failing schools, with the government even funding the extra classes needed for full teacher certification, and in exchange a certain amount of that person's debt would be forgiven for each year teaching in a struggling school system.

People with law degrees willing to set up practice in poor, rural, or otherwise underserved areas could be given the same deal.

A similar program could be set up for employers - hire someone with a degree that may not match your needs exactly, but is close enough, and receive funds or tax credits for providing on-the-job training to bridge the gaps and hire American workers.
 
2013-10-21 12:32:22 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Another thing the government could do would be to set up a program for student-loan forgiveness in exchange for working in critical need areas.

People having trouble finding work with degrees in English, History, etc, could be given the option of teaching in poor or failing schools, with the government even funding the extra classes needed for full teacher certification, and in exchange a certain amount of that person's debt would be forgiven for each year teaching in a struggling school system.

People with law degrees willing to set up practice in poor, rural, or otherwise underserved areas could be given the same deal.

A similar program could be set up for employers - hire someone with a degree that may not match your needs exactly, but is close enough, and receive funds or tax credits for providing on-the-job training to bridge the gaps and hire American workers.


http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml

It's not perfect, but there is a program out there.
 
2013-10-21 12:55:11 AM
Make the student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy after graduation.

That'll teach lenders to think twice before just handing out cash.
 
2013-10-21 12:56:41 AM
Debtors Prison University.

"One call solves it all!"
 
2013-10-21 12:57:46 AM
Understand? Not at all
Pay off? Can be difficult but not impossible*

Loans should not be a chain around someone's neck but I don't feel read bad for a medieval literature major who's a bagger's assistant at Marsh on the weekends.

If one wants universal cheap post secondary education -- college, trade school, et al -- that's another, great argument which I support.


*difficulty - still owes around 20K on student loans
 
2013-10-21 12:59:47 AM
Universities sure have gotten themselves into a nice, sweet position. Make it so that even the most basic of jobs requires a degree, use some cultish techniques and money just flows everywhere.
 
2013-10-21 01:02:58 AM
I worked two jobs during college to pay for as much of it as I could, but I still graduated with about $32,000 in loans because my scholarship didn't increase each year, but that farking tuition did.

Still, once I realized that even at a low interest rate at the time (8%) I was going to end up paying back a small fortune, I paid them off early.  I had one PLUS loan for 4 grand, and that farker had a higher interest rate and the servicer was an absolute dick about it.  So even though I was making good money right out of college, I did IT consulting temp jobs on the weekends to bankroll more money.  It was simple work, like replacing 400 workstations in an office during a hardware refresh, but it paid about $15 an hour and had to be done on the weekends.  It was perfect, and in 1992 $15 an hour was nothing to sneeze at.

After two years I had saved enough to make a final payment on all my loans in one lump sum.  It was the best thing I ever did.  I was young, unmarried, and I had very little expenses.  The weekend work had the added benefit of keeping me from spending all my extra money on bar tabs on Fridays and Saturdays, which is what I probably would have done because that was my M.O. for meeting women when I was younger.  I winced a little when I emptied my savings to pay the bill, but I was able to fill it back up much faster because I had removed a monthly expense.

It's much more difficult to schedule now that I'm older, but I'll still occasionally do some weekend work for extra cash, particularly in the winter when there isn't yard work to do.  Now I use the extra money to fund vacations.
 
2013-10-21 01:03:13 AM

super_grass: Make the student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy after graduation.

That'll teach lenders to think twice before just handing out cash.


So now less people go to college. Ok, I guess.
 
2013-10-21 01:03:29 AM

TuteTibiImperes: My suggestion would be to allow the discharge on the condition that all credits or degrees earned which were paid for fully or in any part with the loan money be immediately revoked and invalidated.


Issue with that is if some poor schmuck is in that situation entirely due to lack of money, and they are having a hard time getting a job that can pay back the loan, taking away their degree will make that job hunt go from hard to nigh impossible
 
2013-10-21 01:06:49 AM
If only there was some institution were one could get educated on math and finances...
 
2013-10-21 01:07:43 AM

CruJones: super_grass: Make the student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy after graduation.

That'll teach lenders to think twice before just handing out cash.

So now less people go to college. Ok, I guess.


That thinking is partly why we have such a college debt crisis to begin with.
 
2013-10-21 01:08:49 AM
TuteTibiImperes:

If all else fails, there should be a means to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.  My suggestion would be to allow the discharge on the condition that all credits or degrees earned which were paid for fully or in any part with the loan money be immediately revoked and invalidated.  That would prevent anyone from defaulting after graduation to game the system.

What a cruel and vindictive proposal. The people who are gaming the system are the universities, not the students. The better solution is limit the amount of student loans that a person can take out in the first place. For example, I know people with undergraduate degrees in at history with 75K in debt. That simply should not be possible. The solution I propose is that no student should be able to borrow more than the average annual salary for employed graduates in their degree field. For example, the average annual salary in Counseling Psychology is 29K. So that would be the limit a student could borrow for a 4 year degree in the major.
 
2013-10-21 01:09:11 AM
Grants and loans help to pay for living and associated expenses with full time enrollment. As long as any progress is being made towards a declared degree or certificate, tuition is covered. Should the declared degree or certificate change before completion, tuition which went towards any now unused course will act similar to current unsubsidized loans with repayments to begin upon graduation or other exit from school.

Seriously... the advantages from a qualified and educated workforce are enormous. Even better is not having a workforce with crushing debts who are able to use income in the economy. Fiscal responsibility is not about the least spending but efficient spending, and returns on education define efficient.
 
2013-10-21 01:09:23 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: Universities sure have gotten themselves into a nice, sweet position. Make it so that even the most basic of jobs requires a degree, use some cultish techniques and money just flows everywhere.



They are certainly part of "the system". Along with publishers, banks and many other industries associated with "education"
 
2013-10-21 01:10:39 AM
People cannot find work straight out of college because the job market is way over saturated.

The fewer the better.
 
2013-10-21 01:12:15 AM
Is this where idiots cry like a biatch over having to pay back debt that they assumed completely voluntarily?
 
2013-10-21 01:12:39 AM

the_sidewinder: TuteTibiImperes: My suggestion would be to allow the discharge on the condition that all credits or degrees earned which were paid for fully or in any part with the loan money be immediately revoked and invalidated.

Issue with that is if some poor schmuck is in that situation entirely due to lack of money, and they are having a hard time getting a job that can pay back the loan, taking away their degree will make that job hunt go from hard to nigh impossible


I never got to use my degree in mechanical engineering in a professional aspect. Fortunately what I did to pay for my senior year had a good year and I managed to pay off my student loans in one shot, although now I know how to work with that sort of backroll to make 3% per month consistently.
 
2013-10-21 01:13:05 AM
B-B-B-BUT a debt-crippled, indentured workforce will be more accepting of harsher conditions and lower pay, and be less reluctant to leave/demand better!  And the banks/universities make mega-profits.   EVERYONE (who donates to the GOP) WINS!
 
2013-10-21 01:14:49 AM

wildcardjack: I never got to use my degree in mechanical engineering in a professional aspect.


I got to use mine for about five years, but IT was far more lucrative in the end.  At least in my area of the country.
 
2013-10-21 01:15:21 AM
We allow these jokers to prey on our kids (who receive little education in finance beyond balancing a checkbook) and shackle them to a lifetime of debt.

And we call it "good".
 
2013-10-21 01:16:02 AM

wildcardjack: I never got to use my degree in mechanical engineering in a professional aspect. Fortunately what I did to pay for my senior year had a good year and I managed to pay off my student loans in one shot, although now I know how to work with that sort of backroll to make 3% per month consistently.


What I'm saying is that if you had a hard time finding a job that pays well enough with your degree, invalidating it isn't going to make the job hunt any easier
 
2013-10-21 01:16:25 AM

BummerDuck: If only there was some institution were one could get educated on math and finances...


or speeling
 
2013-10-21 01:16:29 AM

Yogimus: Is this where idiots cry like a biatch over having to pay back debt that they assumed completely voluntarily?


It's not their fault that they didn't know that their $150k degree in Afro-Lesbo Basket Weaving Studies degree wasn't going to net them a cushy job when they just graduated from high school being sold that a diploma was some kind of golden ticket. Besides, universities aren't job training centers - they're there for you to expand your horizons instead of figuring out how to make a buck.
 
2013-10-21 01:18:28 AM
Don't take student loans against degrees which qualify you to wait tables or be a Starbucks barrista.  Anyone dumb enough to take a student loan against an Art History degree is a pathetic victim.  Math.  Engineering.  Science.  Those degrees land you in a place to pay back your loans.

Granola degrees like Art History and English have a place in our society.  I very much believe that, but the entitled dipshiats graduating with these degrees, with no plan to pay them back, are now whining they can't find jobs? Did you think about how would you apply your degree?  Did you take the math or econ classes to understand how to pay your loans?

If you invest in a non-earning venture, don't complain you can't pay your bills because you don't have the money.
 
2013-10-21 01:19:18 AM
What I learned a bit late in the process:

I took out four years of loans.  I borrowed minimally.   However, each loan was treated separately-- so I had four separate loans, each with its own minimum payment- so suddenly the monthly payment was quite costly-- so I had to consolidate at a higher interest rate.

Frankly it doesn't make much sense to me that they aren't all just run like some big flexiloan.

That all said, I easily paid them off.
 
2013-10-21 01:19:48 AM

super_grass: Make the student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy after graduation.

That'll teach lenders to think twice before just handing out cash.


Yes

It would mean that there would be no more student loans. Unless you had collateral.
 
2013-10-21 01:20:30 AM
Just paid on mine today.  I have $12,500 with 2.8% interest left.  Of course, I figured out very early on that private loans were very, very bad and that I would not take more out than I could get on the federal loans.  I also went to an affordable school and decided that a master's degree wasn't worth the money.

See?  When you treat it as a financial decision instead of an emotional one, it works out fine.  Taking out a house loan for 4 years of college is a good idea is when you run into trouble.
 
2013-10-21 01:21:42 AM

bborchar: Just paid on mine today.  I have $12,500 with 2.8% interest left.  Of course, I figured out very early on that private loans were very, very bad and that I would not take more out than I could get on the federal loans.  I also went to an affordable school and decided that a master's degree wasn't worth the money.

See?  When you treat it as a financial decision instead of an emotional one, it works out fine.

When you start thinking that taking out a house loan for 4 years of college is a good idea is when you run into trouble.

 FTFM
 
2013-10-21 01:23:39 AM
If only there were some way to not take out a student loan.

None of us are safe.
 
2013-10-21 01:23:44 AM
As job skills go, college is today what high school was in the 1950s. College level courses should be basic education, with the option not to take them and make your own way.

But universities and student loans are far too profitable for that ever to happen.

/There are also too damn many colleges. But when the teat's that big, everybody gets in line.
 
2013-10-21 01:27:23 AM
Yes, they are so impossible to pay off that I paid mine off a full year early.

Here's a tip, if you aren't going for a degree that requires post-secondary education, go to a smaller state school, because unless you're going to be a lawyer, doctor etc, no one gives a fark-all where your got your degree, just that you have it.
 
2013-10-21 01:27:46 AM

foo monkey: are now whining they can't find jobs? Did you think about how would you apply your degree?


Why do we expect eighteen years old newly released from thirteen years of schooling having been steeped in the belief an education leads to success and in a world which necessitates some level of formal schooling now free to make significant life decisions will make great life decisions? Those are basically children.
 
2013-10-21 01:28:46 AM

HighZoolander: BummerDuck: If only there was some institution were one could get educated on math and finances...

or speeling


We have our first wiener with an English degree! Step right up and accept your bankruptcy prize.

How's that degree treating yah? Trolling Fark to correct people, so I see you still have your superiority complex intact.
 
2013-10-21 01:33:05 AM
I didn't have much in student loans (about 9 grand); but I paid them all off on my first deployment on [tax free] E-4 pay.  I had only been out of school for a little over a year, and the minimum payment was only about $55 a month; but damn it felt good to get that monkey off my back 8 years early.  Though I didn't get to buy a shiny new car when we came home as many of my comrades did.  Oh well.
 
2013-10-21 01:33:28 AM

the_sidewinder: wildcardjack: I never got to use my degree in mechanical engineering in a professional aspect. Fortunately what I did to pay for my senior year had a good year and I managed to pay off my student loans in one shot, although now I know how to work with that sort of backroll to make 3% per month consistently.

What I'm saying is that if you had a hard time finding a job that pays well enough with your degree, invalidating it isn't going to make the job hunt any easier


I'm not saying that degrees should be nullified for getting behind on payments or having it sent to collections, just in exchange of discharging the loans as part of bankruptcy.

If your house is foreclosed on you have to give up your house, if your car is repossessed you lose your car, depending on the state you may have to forfeit a considerable amount of personal property when declaring bankruptcy.

Requiring the forfeiture of a degree upon bankruptcy would just be bringing it in line with the consequences of bankruptcy for other assets.
 
2013-10-21 01:33:37 AM
I went to a small school I could afford, and still graduated with about 12k in loans to pay off. After I got my first job post-graduation, I devoted as much money as I could to my loans, living in a shiatty studio apartment that was basically a cinderblock cube in a roach infested neighborhood. It took me about 3 years to pay off, and then I started saving up to buy my first car with bank financing.

All these people that finish undergraduate school with like 50k to pay off make me wonder where I took a wrong turn.
 
2013-10-21 01:35:48 AM

BummerDuck: HighZoolander: BummerDuck: If only there was some institution were one could get educated on math and finances...

or speeling

We have our first wiener with an English degree! Step right up and accept your bankruptcy prize.

How's that degree treating yah? Trolling Fark to correct people, so I see you still have your superiority complex intact.


To be fair, my stepfather has an English degree, and he's doing all right.

Of course, he used his English undergrad as Premed and became a doctor, so I don't know how useful a career path it is.

/Should be paid off about tax time.
//$3,989 left.
 
2013-10-21 01:40:50 AM

Fubini: Other creditors pull these tricks with other types of credit, but student loan lenders are just extra bastard-y about it.


Car loans, credit cards, and mortgages are all separate and if you prioritize payments it goes to one loan. Student loans (at least mine) where a collection of loans from one vendor, unless you specifically direct a payment it was evenly divided. If your young and stupid and don't understand then it's easy to make mistakes that cost you and benefit them (which is what they want), but honestly if you spent money on a college degree then hopefully you also understand basic finance and don't make those mistakes.

A good portion of the population is horrible with money, they overspend and then poorly manage debt.
 
2013-10-21 01:41:02 AM
i paid mine off

neener neener?

perhaps personal sacrifice is not the same for everyone.
choosing more loans and less work while studying is your own fault...buying an education you can't afford?
is it just people that live off their loans that have problems?
 
2013-10-21 01:42:34 AM
My dad died back in May unexpectedly.  While that sucked horribly, it turns out that he had all of my sister's student loans taken out in his name and his name alone.  Upon his death, the lawyers informed my mom and sister to not pay a dime on it, even though they were going to try to get them to, because he took the debt with him.

She was right, they did try, until said lawyer did whatever legal voodoo she do to get them to back off.  They basically took a gamble with my father, a retired GM skilled trades employee with a current job, no health problems his entire life, and a relatively young 56 years old (52 at the time of the loans being issued).  Due to whatever random viral/bacterial infection that hit him, they lost the bet.  Though I'm sure if my dad knew how it all would have ended, he wouldn't have paid so much on the loan in the years previous.
 
2013-10-21 01:46:14 AM
I hear complaints from my friend about his student loans all the time. Thing is, in school he was taking useless courses. They were "cool" to him, but just how is a course on comic book literature going to help you in the future?

Student loans suck. I've got one still in 5 figures. But, I went to school for something useful and had a job before I even entered my 4th year.

If I could do it again, I'd be working a trade. Several weeks a year instead of 4 years full-time, and making great cash. Not to mention fulfilling work.
 
2013-10-21 01:46:49 AM
TuteTibiImperes:

Requiring the forfeiture of a degree upon bankruptcy would just be bringing it in line with the consequences of bankruptcy for other assets.

Wow. are you really that dumb? First, education is not a tangible good like a house. What is the court going to do, use a brain wiping program? This is so dumb why am I wasting my time replying to it. What a joke.
 
2013-10-21 01:47:04 AM
TuteTibiImperes:
If all else fails, there should be a means to discharge student loan debt through bankruptcy.  My suggestion would be to allow the discharge on the condition that all credits or degrees earned which were paid for fully or in any part with the loan money be immediately revoked and invalidated.  That would prevent anyone from defaulting after graduation to game the system.

You can't invalidate a degree.  No university would ever revoke a degree because a student failed to pay student loans 10 months later, they would lose all credibilty.

Oh, I had a Masters in Computing Science, but then I had loan payment trouble and it was revoked.  Oh, and my memory was wiped and I no longer remember anything I learned.
 
2013-10-21 01:51:15 AM
Also, why don't we call the interest on Fed student loans for what they are, a tax on the middle and working classes of America.  Any interest rate that exceeds the rate at which the government pays to borrow money is a tax on those who need outside funding to get an education.

I don't know how people can see how outrageous this is.  The government encourages us to get a education so we can apply our skills to an advanced workforce which in turn generates more income and tax revenue for all.  But we can't tax the wealthy too much, can we, so we'll just do a reach around tax on the education costs for the workers who's education is growing the economy in the first place.

Barack Obama has slapped every one of the key demographic groups that helped him beat Hillary Clinton in 2008.
 
2013-10-21 01:53:17 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Another thing the government could do would be to set up a program for student-loan forgiveness in exchange for working in critical need areas.

People having trouble finding work with degrees in English, History, etc, could be given the option of teaching in poor or failing schools, with the government even funding the extra classes needed for full teacher certification, and in exchange a certain amount of that person's debt would be forgiven for each year teaching in a struggling school system.

People with law degrees willing to set up practice in poor, rural, or otherwise underserved areas could be given the same deal.

A similar program could be set up for employers - hire someone with a degree that may not match your needs exactly, but is close enough, and receive funds or tax credits for providing on-the-job training to bridge the gaps and hire American workers.


Those loan forgiveness programs exist. I worked in the student loan industry years ago, im sure some things have changed. But when i was in it, you had to work pretty hard to default on a student loan, you had to just simply blow the thing off for a long long time. There are deferements, forbearances, forgiveness programs, they will work with you to keep you from defaulting. The price students pay for getting a loan when they have no credit is that the loan isnt dischargable like other debt. The folks i knew who worked in collections weren't ogres out to screw people, they would make a payment plan that would keep just about anyone who showed even a smidgeon of intent to pay back the loan out of default.
 
2013-10-21 01:54:17 AM
Was lucky.  Got out of college before I had to get into debt.

But a female friend of mine would get renewal applications every semester before the course prospectus came.  After about the third or fourth time I finally asked her, "How long do you think it'll take take you to pay this off?"

Her answer:  "It'll be all right.  My advisor forwards these to me.  She'll never let me get over my head."

Tried for the rest of the year to get her to understand that her advisor worked for the university and was probably evaluated on how much green she brought in every year, but it was always "Universities don't act that way."

Gave up.  Last I heard she was teaching a Head Start class, and, yes, still paying off her debt.  She thinks she'll have it retired by her early fifties.
 
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