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(Fox News)   HHS Secretary Kathleen Shefailedus will explain to Congress what the hell she's been doing for the last three years   (foxnews.com) divider line 282
    More: Fail, HHS Secretary Kathleen Shefailedus, Kathleen Sebelius, obamacare, congresses, Commerce Committee, D-Ill, House Energy  
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3229 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Oct 2013 at 6:40 PM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-21 07:33:47 AM

Shvetz: BizarreMan: It's obvious what she's been doing.  She's been collecting a pay check.

I realize that the Federal Insurance Exchange is a big website with lots of intricacies.  But look at Google, Microsoft, and Amazon.  They never had the issues that this site did and there should be enough people out there with experience to make it work.

They didn't have everybody try to sign up all on the same day, and they also have much bigger budgets for their web sites. The "failure" with Obamacare is that so many people want/need it. It's like claiming the latest iPhone is a failure if the stores run out of them in the first week of sales.


None of that is true.
 
2013-10-21 07:36:16 AM

Delay: skullkrusher: if no one joins because they aren't interested or it isn't implemented well, I'd imagine that would lend credence to their attacks.

No, that's not what I mean. If the GOP would have claimed that folks would not join because the website was not implemented well, the Republicans could have scored. But that was never their argument. The Republicans claimed the Affordable Care Act killed jobs and was Socialism.

See? They were stupid.


Thatis inherent in the "gov ernment cant do anything right" argument. The website wont be the only thing not implemented well.
 
2013-10-21 07:40:25 AM

Peter von Nostrand: skullkrusher: Delay: skullkrusher: if no one joins because they aren't interested or it isn't implemented well, I'd imagine that would lend credence to their attacks.

No, that's not what I mean. If the GOP would have claimed that folks would not join because the website was not implemented well, the Republicans could have scored. But that was never their argument. The Republicans claimed the Affordable Care Act killed jobs and was Socialism.

See? They were stupid.

huh? If the implementation of ACA sucks, that isn't a political win for Republicans?

If you live in a world where everything has to be a win for one side, yes


Well, the media is blaming republicans for the website, so we at least live in a world where someone has to be blamed.
 
2013-10-21 07:51:34 AM
I imagine they were dealing with a hard deadline and part of it is they just released whatever they had.

If they knew it was going to be so bad, they had no business releasing it.
 
2013-10-21 07:56:17 AM

PanicMan: BMFPitt: So she'll just come down with a case of Congressional oversight amnesia?

Or just a passive-aggressive, "Fark you, what are you going to do about it?"

Pretty much every answer should be  "Congress mandated it to be this way and left almost nothing in my control.  This is all your fault."


So the second one, then.

What should they say when they point out that the phrase "The HHS Secretary shall determine..." appears a few hundred times, some of them relating to the clusterfark we've seen with what is possibly the most expensive website ever?
 
2013-10-21 08:22:49 AM
She should testify and troll them. "We'll we thought we could get by with only 12 redux inverters, but it kept overdrawing the fundamental backplane and overheating the transmit layer." "So you're saying it could have been prevented if the administration hadn't failed you." "Indeed sir. In fact, we had 8 more inverters we procured from Israel stored at the Benghazi compound, and we all know how *that* turned out, lol, amIright?"

Really though just buy the programmers a 24 of beer and wait an hour, and they'll be perfectly happy to tell you right where to lay the blame.
 
2013-10-21 08:24:10 AM
So people need to pay their first premium before their coverage starts, and pay every month.

What happens if they cannot make a payment on time? What happens when they can't pay at all?
 
2013-10-21 08:36:26 AM

finaboy: So people need to pay their first premium before their coverage starts, and pay every month.

What happens if they cannot make a payment on time? What happens when they can't pay at all?


In general low income folks get substantial subsidies for  their insurance, so if you make little money, you only have to pay very little.
 
2013-10-21 08:51:51 AM

AkaDad: skullkrusher: AkaDad: skullkrusher: AkaDad: skullkrusher: AkaDad: skullkrusher: Delay: skullkrusher: if no one joins because they aren't interested or it isn't implemented well, I'd imagine that would lend credence to their attacks.

No, that's not what I mean. If the GOP would have claimed that folks would not join because the website was not implemented well, the Republicans could have scored. But that was never their argument. The Republicans claimed the Affordable Care Act killed jobs and was Socialism.

See? They were stupid.

huh? If the implementation of ACA sucks, that isn't a political win for Republicans?

When people vote they're going to remember that the Republicans shutdown the government, not how the ACA website wasn't implemented properly, so their small win is basically irrelevant.

neither of those things have anything to do with the other but yes, you are correct

So, political victories and losses have no bearing on elections?

no, whether a rollout failure is a win for the GOP has nothing to do with whether they'll be remembered for shutting down the government. Both are possible and not exclusive.

My point was that their small victory on the ACA wont come close to making up for them shutting down the government. Wouldn't you agree?

sure. In fact, I have already said you were correct.

By constantly playing devils advocate, it's hard to tell with you. It sometimes seems like you take sides just to argue.


This is why I have him farkied as "reasonable sarcastical"
 
2013-10-21 08:52:30 AM
All members of congress should have to get their health care from this website.
 
2013-10-21 08:57:01 AM

BalugaJoe: All members of congress should have to get their health care from this website.


It would be hilarious to watch them try to buy insurance on Fark, it would certainly liven up the politics tab.
 
2013-10-21 09:24:08 AM

Elegy: Good. Heads need to roll.


i assume you're a big supporter of obamacare and are upset that its rollout has been plagued with website issues, yes?
 
2013-10-21 09:31:16 AM

Radioactive Ass: Perhaps that's why the Congress wants to talk to Madam Secretary. Namely to find out what level of oversight was given to this fiasco and by whom. TFA said that it was the #2 Democrat Dick Durbin that wanted the senate hearings. Another senator made the not unreasonable comment that if she had time to make an appearance on The Daily Show to talk about it then she certainly has time to make an appearance in front of the Commerce Committee and do the same.


You realize that's not how linear passage of time works, right.  The fact you have time for something scheduled on a Tuesday doesn't mean your entire Thursday is empty and free when someone asks you do something on Wednesday.

Piizzadude: Nope it it will not explain away jack. People will get their asses handed to them. And they should with budget overruns like that

Give me 2 years and 50M I can have that sucker done.


You don't have two years.  And wake me up when they start caring about billion dollar overruns on Pentagon programs.
 
2013-10-21 09:38:21 AM
At least the Powerball still works.
 
2013-10-21 09:45:50 AM

FlashHarry: Elegy: Good. Heads need to roll.

i assume you're a big supporter of obamacare and are upset that its rollout has been plagued with website issues, yes?


Yes, as a matter of fact.
 
2013-10-21 09:50:29 AM
Shefailedus

This is Yahoo comments-level humor. I'm embarrassed for everyone involved. Don't put this one on your resume, FARK.
 
2013-10-21 09:54:41 AM
They took down Facebook as well.
 
2013-10-21 09:55:39 AM

Clever Neologism: I am a software engineer, so I am getting a kick, etc.


As a software engineer, you would be even more horrified by the public code and some of the private code that has leaked than most people.  It's really bad, man.  It looks a lot like if when I'd just started programming someone had handed me a document saying, "Create a Federal Exchange website hooking to disparate sources!"  At least a few of the people doing it didn't understand the basics of programming, much less any of the other considerations you've pointed out.  I'm not one to blame the programmers, because I understand quite well how things like this come about (e.g. I created an awful, demon of a processing site once when I was given ten peoples' work, 1/10th the time to do it, no requisite funding, specs that changed repeatedly (huge specs changing the day before launch!) and no managerial backup -- I know some tasks are actually impossible), but this is going to end up being in classes in school on what "not to do."

I hope people don't miss perhaps the most important point there you made, though -- integrating with disparate data sources is hard work.  It's what I end up spending about 25% of my time on nowadays, because I spent so long dealing with ridiculously bad systems and needing to talk to them that it's become second nature.  I now have the leisure of dealing with those types of things in a sensible time frame, and kicking down doors when I need responses I can't get.  I don't imagine the people working on this site have that ability, and thus I imagine they were trying to do something that is just technically unfeasible.  Either way, this is important enough that someone should have been kicking those doors down.

This is _not_ a load issue.  Flat out, no way in hell is it related to load.  I don't believe there were any use or edge cases tested.
 
2013-10-21 09:57:52 AM

Harry_Seldon: You know what really annoys me about this whole thread? The Federal government has a massive call center operation that is working just fine. Having trouble using the website? Apply by phone. Average wait time? One minute.

I know, Millenials, talking to a person might be the end of the world.


Good point. But Republicans have been actively telling young people NOT to sign up. So they should be thrilled that the website isn't working well.
 
2013-10-21 10:10:49 AM
Im sure they are getting a great deal of adverse selection.
 
2013-10-21 10:16:52 AM

SlothB77: etc.


Man, you're way too late to this threat to start trolling now.

/B for effort though
 
2013-10-21 10:17:33 AM

Russ Feingold's Brass Balls: SlothB77: etc.

Man, you're way too late to this threatd to start trolling now.

/B for effort though


It's entirely too early in the morning to be spelling correctly.

/fetches coffee
 
2013-10-21 10:44:01 AM

BalugaJoe: All members of congress should have to get their health care from this website.


Why should they? Congress gets it's insurance from their employer, just like I do.
Problem?
 
2013-10-21 11:07:25 AM

BalugaJoe: All members of congress should have to get their health care from this website.


They do, as explicitly required by law. Their staffs, too.

Technically the President and Vice President, too, but that's kind of silly as they have their own full-time White House medical staff.
 
2013-10-21 11:14:00 AM
fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart fart
 
2013-10-21 11:55:10 AM
C+P'ed:
Let's review:
They scheduled on Friday, 10/18 afternoon a meeting on Thursday, 10/24, without consulting anyone they wanted to attend.
Since she was on the Daily Show on 10/7, Republicans immediately whined on Twitter that she had time for it and not their hearings.
They're complaining that because they had time for a television interview TWO farkING WEEKS before they even scheduled this hearing she should have time for the hearing.
 
2013-10-21 11:57:05 AM

FitzShivering: Clever Neologism: I am a software engineer, so I am getting a kick, etc.

As a software engineer, you would be even more horrified by the public code and some of the private code that has leaked than most people.  It's really bad, man.  It looks a lot like if when I'd just started programming someone had handed me a document saying, "Create a Federal Exchange website hooking to disparate sources!"  At least a few of the people doing it didn't understand the basics of programming, much less any of the other considerations you've pointed out.  I'm not one to blame the programmers, because I understand quite well how things like this come about (e.g. I created an awful, demon of a processing site once when I was given ten peoples' work, 1/10th the time to do it, no requisite funding, specs that changed repeatedly (huge specs changing the day before launch!) and no managerial backup -- I know some tasks are actually impossible), but this is going to end up being in classes in school on what "not to do."


Probably so.  Not to mention the fact that the external systems they are hitting are just as bad, if not worse.  The only problems I experiences directly was slowness and the website saying "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that, because I'm doing it for 1000s of other people right now" message.  I can only speculate as to what I have directly seen.  It's really quite disturbing the code I see.  People still using global variables, etc.

I hope people don't miss perhaps the most important point there you made, though -- integrating with disparate data sources is hard work.  It's what I end up spending about 25% of my time on nowadays, because I spent so long dealing with ridiculously bad systems and needing to talk to them that it's become second nature.  I now have the leisure of dealing with those types of things in a sensible time frame, and kicking down doors when I need responses I can't get.  I don't imagine the people working on this site have that ability, and thus I imagine they were trying to do something that is just technically unfeasible.  Either way, this is important enough that someone should have been kicking those doors down.

The government shutdown probably didn't help.  Considering that many of the systems involved were not owned by HHS, not to mention the fact that people higher up that could have gotten heads rolling were probably concerned with bigger issues, like keeping their critical services open, I'm surprised anything was able to be fixed at all in two weeks.

This is _not_ a load issue.  Flat out, no way in hell is it related to load.  I don't believe there were any use or edge cases tested.

The problems I experienced were.  I can't speak to others, as I did not experience them.  Being a developer, I have learned that speculation about reported and unverified issues has negative utility, and that's *without* the possibility of willfully malicious bogosity.

I'll bet you they used Agile, had very little design effort, etc.
 
2013-10-21 12:18:23 PM

rewind2846: BalugaJoe: All members of congress should have to get their health care from this website.

Why should they? Congress gets it's insurance from their employer, just like I do.
Problem?


The GOP proposed a law forcing Congress to use the exchanges, planning to embarrass Democrats for voting against it.

Instead the Dems said, "OK".

So the Reps and Senators and their staff have to use the exchanges.

But the right wingers, including FOX and the Wall Street Journal, are still spreading the lie that Congress is exempt from Obamacare.
 
2013-10-21 12:58:48 PM

Piizzadude: Can the Dems start yelling BENGAZHI!!! just to throw a distraction out there for a week or so?

Crap happens with any major launch


I kind of wish they would turn this around on them, start looking into who cut the funding for embassy security, call for an investigation, see how quickly Benghazi stops being a scandal when they try to hold someone who actually could be held responsible for it.
 
2013-10-21 01:55:43 PM

ThunderPelvis: The bugs will get worked out. Christ, the biggest game companies crash their servers on launch days, not sure why the supposedly incompetent federal government is expected to do better than the almighty free market.

Ohhh, right. BECAUSE OBAMA.


This isn't some launch day glitch. We're on week two of fail. This is like being forced to buy SimCity and then be required to login but you can't get logged in. And if you're not logged in by January you're going to start getting fined.

But sure - launch glitch because.... hope.
 
2013-10-21 02:27:18 PM

Satanic_Hamster: C+P'ed:
Let's review:
They scheduled on Friday, 10/18 afternoon a meeting on Thursday, 10/24, without consulting anyone they wanted to attend.
Since she was on the Daily Show on 10/7, Republicans immediately whined on Twitter that she had time for it and not their hearings.
They're complaining that because they had time for a television interview TWO farkING WEEKS before they even scheduled this hearing she should have time for the hearing.


And Stewart did a better job of grilling her than they will, anyway.
 
2013-10-21 03:41:31 PM

Clever Neologism: I'll bet you they used Agile, had very little design effort, etc.


I can't really say much (other than I hate all things Agile, for the most part), here.  When I was doe-eyed and new I figured most programs were well designed and it was just the "crappy people" who did a bad job.  Having now seen the source for a great many commonly used large programs and websites, I'm relatively sure 99% of everything out there is poorly designed.

And having designed a few things under impossible deadlines and without the requisite information, I know why.  I still maintain a system I wrote back in mid 2000s that had >2000 changes of scope (as defined in the original document) over the first year or two -- it is the hackiest ball of shiat ever written, despite the fact to the end users its some magical panacea that solves most their problems.

I pity the poor soul who works on it after I die.

/I retroactively apologized in the comments quite a few times
//and recommended suicide if dealing with certain parts
///seriously, may be the worst written program in history
 
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