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(London Review of Books)   Turkey makes a giant leap into the 21st century by finally legalizing (a) bras (b) miniskirts, or (c) Q, W, and X   (lrb.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Turkey, Latin alphabet, Erdogan, electoral reform  
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9146 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Oct 2013 at 12:36 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



68 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-10-20 12:41:49 PM  
This will change their Sesame Street line up.
 
2013-10-20 12:41:55 PM  
is QWX their version of WTF?

Actually it would be neat to see what WTF translates to for many of the world's languages.
 
2013-10-20 12:41:56 PM  
How's Greece doing with Z?
 
2013-10-20 12:44:44 PM  
You know you've got it made as a dictator when you're capable of banning letters from the alphabet.
 
2013-10-20 12:44:54 PM  
At last the Turks  an Tweet and Twerk, and they can quit watching "K-Men: Ulverine."
 
2013-10-20 12:45:08 PM  
HUOT?
This is an outrage!
 
2013-10-20 12:45:45 PM  

FloydA: At last the Turks  an Tweet and Twerk, and they can quit watching "K-Men: Ulverine."


or "can"
 
2013-10-20 12:47:45 PM  

kd8our: is QWX their version of WTF?

Actually it would be neat to see what WTF translates to for many of the world's languages.


cdn.meme.li
 
2013-10-20 12:50:13 PM  
Hmm, learned something new.
 
2013-10-20 12:51:28 PM  
Weird tag is currently studying a Turkish typewriter....
 
2013-10-20 12:54:50 PM  

raerae1980: Hmm, learned something new.


That we have more than 23 letters in our alphabet?
 
2013-10-20 12:55:17 PM  
It's nobody's business but the Turks.

wac.3e65.edgecastcdn.net

/surprised I'm the first.
 
2013-10-20 12:56:29 PM  
I didn't know that turkeys could read...
 
2013-10-20 12:59:31 PM  

iheartscotch: I didn't know that turkeys could read...


That joke will never fly.
 
2013-10-20 01:01:35 PM  
Uh... isn't Turkey ridiculously liberal for one of those brown people muzzie countries? I've heard woman can even wear blue jeans and have sex outside of marriage without being buried up to their necks and pelted with rocks.

Perhaps you're thinking of Utah, subster.
 
2013-10-20 01:02:50 PM  
Wait, are bras and miniskirts still banned? It's there some sort of inspector who goes around making sure women aren't wearing bras?
 
2013-10-20 01:03:06 PM  
FTA:  "Compared to more pressing issues - electoral reform, or the mass detention of Kurdish prisoners - the legalisation of Q, W and X may seem token or trivial. But forms of linguistic oppression are forms of oppression nonetheless."

No, they still seem token or trivial.
 
2013-10-20 01:04:55 PM  

Valiente: It's nobody's business but the Turks.

[wac.3e65.edgecastcdn.net image 560x274]

/surprised I'm the first.


X!  Surely you meant

3.bp.blogspot.com
/hawt

Having been in Turkey a number of places and having a number of Turkish friends of varying types I gotta say...
Pronouncing "W" is pretty difficult for them :)
 
2013-10-20 01:04:59 PM  
Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.
 
2013-10-20 01:06:47 PM  
Turkey's a real...duck.
 
2013-10-20 01:06:53 PM  

here to help: Uh... isn't Turkey ridiculously liberal for one of those brown people muzzie countries? I've heard woman can even wear blue jeans and have sex outside of marriage without being buried up to their necks and pelted with rocks.

Perhaps you're thinking of Utah, subster.


Istanbul is very European. The more southeast you go, the more middle eastern it gets. Adana is a middle eastern city.
 
2013-10-20 01:11:26 PM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: Istanbul is very European. The more southeast you go, the more middle eastern it gets. Adana is a middle eastern city.


I've heard their society/government has been slowly turning more fundamental/extremist recently but AFAIK it's a far cry from some other places.

However I don't know much... at least on this topic. Turkey has always kind of intrigued me though. Very interesting history. Hope they don't totally f*cked it up. Freakin' fundies, man. They ruin everything.
 
2013-10-20 01:19:29 PM  

serialsuicidebomber: iheartscotch: I didn't know that turkeys could read...

That joke will never fly.


Yeah, that one flopped like a sack of wet cement.
 
2013-10-20 01:21:13 PM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.


You didn't read the end of the article did you?  The bit where they actively made the letters illegal in order to repress certain minorities (ie Kurds) who would use those letters?  And are only now making those letters legal in private schools after like 80 years because they didn't want to make greater concessions to those minorities.

That actually is fairly outrageous.
 
2013-10-20 01:46:56 PM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.


Control the language and you control thought processes. It's like no one ever read 1984.
 
2013-10-20 01:47:02 PM  
"I have some hostages, and they are tied up in a sack at the top of a flag pole. I'm going to blow them up at midnight, unless I get these three demands: ONE! I want a million dollars! TWO: I want a getaway car waiting for me! and THREE: I want the letter M stricken from the English language. See, you have to make one crazy demand, so if they catch you, you can plead insanity. Heh, heh, getaway car."

-Steve Martin
 
2013-10-20 01:52:07 PM  
Now they can really rack up a score in Scrabble.
 
2013-10-20 01:53:05 PM  
(c) Q, W, and X

I love his webcomic, it's so nerdy.
 
2013-10-20 02:02:47 PM  

Krazikarl: Thank You Black Jesus!: Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.

You didn't read the end of the article did you?  The bit where they actively made the letters illegal in order to repress certain minorities (ie Kurds) who would use those letters?  And are only now making those letters legal in private schools after like 80 years because they didn't want to make greater concessions to those minorities.

That actually is fairly outrageous.


No i didnt and good point.
 
2013-10-20 02:04:01 PM  

Thank You Black Jesus!: Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.


Actually, the sounds X and Q are only used in writing the Kurdish language.  As a tiny widdle bone to the Kurds, Erdoğan has included the legalization of public use of their language. His democratization package is a farce: the main beneficiaries are muslim women who want to keep their hair covered at government jobs.

Incidentally, he also passed a law that the police can arrest anyone "suspected of participating in a protest"
 
2013-10-20 02:18:04 PM  
As a language and geopolitics geek i should've kept my comment to myself. Thanks for the insights.
 
2013-10-20 02:20:22 PM  

Krazikarl: Thank You Black Jesus!: Adapting Ottoman turkish from the arabic alphabet to the roman left out a few letters whose sounds are not used in Turkish. This is clearly worthy of outrage.

You didn't read the end of the article did you?  The bit where they actively made the letters illegal in order to repress certain minorities (ie Kurds) who would use those letters?  And are only now making those letters legal in private schools after like 80 years because they didn't want to make greater concessions to those minorities.

That actually is fairly outrageous.


You have to consider what was going on in that area around the end of World War I.  The Allies were planning to dismember the defeated Ottoman Empire, carving it up into smaller ethnic states the way the Austro-Hungarian Empire was demolished.  Unlike the Austrians, though, the Turks weren't going to have any of that, and they fought the "Turkish War of Independence" against the British, French, the Soviet Russians, and their proxies, the Greeks and Armenians.  The Kurds for some idiotic reason (read up on Kurdish history some time, it's practically the textbook definition of "not thinking your cunning plan through") decided to throw their lot in with the Turks.

The Western powers were so weakened by the previous war that they really couldn't put up a fight and basically abandoned their proxies.  The result was ethnic cleansing of the Greeks from western Anatolia, and ethnic cleansing with a side of genocide for the Armenians in eastern Anatolia.  The Kurds' "reward" for siding with the victorious Turks was forced assimilation, something they've been fighting against for decades.

So yeah.  The Turks are bastards, but then, the West has pretty much given them the green light for it.
 
2013-10-20 02:22:48 PM  
This is now a Miniskirt thread

www.dresswbs.com
 
2013-10-20 02:25:04 PM  

lack of warmth: This will change their Sesame Street line up.


More sponsors! Yaaaaaaaaaaay!

Sesame Street Turkey is proud to welcome our new sponsors, the letters X, W and Q, and also the new numbers, Google, Goolgleplex and Infinity, courtesy of the Greek debt crisis. Stupid Greeks. Oh, we hate them!

***

If you have infiniity lira and  I take away infinity lira, how many lira do you have left?

Um, X?

No, you have infinity lira. Works just like American Government shutdown!
Nothing ever gets solved.
 
2013-10-20 02:27:56 PM  
I don't usually toot my own root-a-toot-tootler, but I may have created the Greatest Turkey Joke of All Time just then.
 
2013-10-20 02:36:01 PM  
I could live without the letter 'x'. It's not terribly useful.
 
2013-10-20 02:43:12 PM  

Foxxinnia: I could live without the letter 'x'. It's not terribly useful.


Neither is Q - are there any English sounds which need them (i.e. can't be represented by other letters)?
 
2013-10-20 02:44:28 PM  
The French have no native words with "W" and only adopted the letter in the 1800s when they imported words like "Water Closet" (WC) and Wagon-lit  (sleeping car) from the rapidly industrializing English and Germans. The W section in French dictionaries is still very short and somewhat foreign.

"K" comes to us courtesy of Germans and Greeks (kappa). We once had a theta (th) like the Greeks but it is one of several letters lost to us despite their obvious usefulness. The Greeks had an F but it was lost due to disuse (F is a sound children have trouble with).

And everybody knows about "J" once being merey the hard form of "I". The "f" that is used as an "s" at the beginning of some words in the 1700s was actually just a different form of "s" for the beginning of words, where it was often connected to the next letter as in"fhiat". These are graphical rather than phonetic changes.

The "y" in words like "ye" olde phish tanke is the remnant of the theta (th) sound and not related to the Greek "y" in words like hypnotic, which is more of a "u".

Turkey has merely completed thousands of years of a game of alphabetic magical chairs and a process of Europeanization that began with their Revolution almost a century ago. The Turks have long regarded themselves as Europeans, not like those crazy Arabs and Persians in West Asia. In Lebanon, a lot of people felt and feel the same way--they looked towards the Mediterranean and turned their mountainous cedar-covered back to Syria and the East, hating them as much as the Israelis, but for much, much longer.
 
2013-10-20 02:45:02 PM  

brantgoose: I don't usually toot my own root-a-toot-tootler, but I may have created the Greatest Turkey Joke of All Time just then.


Thanks Flanders !
 
2013-10-20 02:45:55 PM  
I'm against this on principle, as it seems to be something that would make algebra teachers happy.
 
2013-10-20 02:49:43 PM  
Bunch of kueers.
 
2013-10-20 02:51:27 PM  

Dare to keep slugs off kids: HUOT?
This is an outrage!


Oh, I don't know about that. Huot made one of my toolboxes and it's been pretty good so far.
 
2013-10-20 02:54:18 PM  
'There is no "q", no "w", no "x" in the new alphabet.... One does not go to the "Maxim" Restaurant, but to the "Maksim".'

Reminds me of this:

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU rather than German which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five year phase-in plan that would be known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan have 1 less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be ekspekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkorage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e"s in the language is disgraseful, and they should go away.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru!
 
2013-10-20 02:55:50 PM  
Sounds kirli
 
2013-10-20 02:57:29 PM  
Sorry. Should have said "Sounds kirli, effendi"
 
2013-10-20 03:04:00 PM  

brantgoose: Sesame Street Turkey is proud to welcome our new sponsors, the letters X, W and Q, and also the new numbers, Google, Goolgleplex and Infinity, courtesy of the Greek debt crisis. Stupid Greeks. Oh, we hate them!

So first, we've completely and irrevocably changed the meaning of "gay," and now, because of the search engine, "googol" is spelled "Google?" Not picking on this particular instance, just something I've been noticing lately.

 
2013-10-20 03:06:28 PM  
Hooray, now they can finally trade pokemon.
 
2013-10-20 03:08:59 PM  

Rising Ape: Foxxinnia: I could live without the letter 'x'. It's not terribly useful.

Neither is Q - are there any English sounds which need them (i.e. can't be represented by other letters)?


Queue
 
2013-10-20 03:27:25 PM  

Fano: Rising Ape: Foxxinnia: I could live without the letter 'x'. It's not terribly useful.

Neither is Q - are there any English sounds which need them (i.e. can't be represented by other letters)?

Queue


a.espncdn.com

Johnny Queueto begs to differ...
 
2013-10-20 03:27:33 PM  

Fano: Rising Ape: Foxxinnia: I could live without the letter 'x'. It's not terribly useful.

Neither is Q - are there any English sounds which need them (i.e. can't be represented by other letters)?

Queue


Kyu.

Qu- words in general would work just as well with kw- or cw- (as I think they were in Old English). X is either z (e.g. xylophone) or ks (e.g. box).

But with the lack of grammatical gender, noun declensions or complex verb conjugations I suppose we need *some* way of annoying foreign learners of English.
 
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