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(The Raw Story)   Tea Party group leader says it's a "very real possibility" the GOP will split in two, apparently unaware that it has already happened in everything but name   (rawstory.com) divider line 233
    More: Obvious, GOP, FreedomWorks, logical possibility, CEO, Matt Kibbe, CSPAN, Dick Armey, Boehner  
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2874 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Oct 2013 at 9:33 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-19 06:12:36 PM

mjjt: The traditional controllers of GOP will consider whether the TP gains or loses them votes, and act on that.

If TP crazies look like alienating people who would otherwise vote R, then it will be in the RINOs interests to defeat any TP candidate, even if that means letting a Democrat win. So they will run a moderately conservative Independent R candidate and split the vote. Sacrifice 2014 to avoid a rout in 2016.

The TP seems intent on getting more extreme candidates into Congress. They will be even crazier than Cruz, and just as economically ignorant and dogmatic. (Default on debt is good because then nobody will lend to us so we will have to live within our means)

TP economics will harm the rich as well as everyone else. So it's in their interests to emasculate the TP.

And perhaps Fox News advertisers will have second thoughts about supporting the people who are whipping up the TP sheep.


FOX news advertisers like the FOX demographics the way that they are; the stupider the better. Just turn FOX on and watch a couple of commercial cycles and you will see what I mean based on the products and services being advertised. Catheters, mesothelioma lawsuits, Gold, books on the upcoming Obama collapse, survival stuff, "Western sky", social security lawsuits, medicare lawsuits.. Who buys this crap? Well, FOX news viewers do, and that's the way the advertisers like it; nobody else is going to buy that crud. ,
 
2013-10-19 06:17:26 PM

Smackledorfer: ghare: parasol: ....I am not sure we can consider the tea party "fringe" anymore - not now that they have enough congressional power to force a shut down, threaten default, gloat about it and poll with more popularity than before
Just saying


But they AREN'T more popular.

And they never were. In a few years every idiot who supported them will be in another subclass of republicanism and biatch about rhinos. They will shift to varying levels of publicly social conservatism but forget all they think they know about the fiscal side the second the handlers get the message through.

Deficits could once again be claimed to not matter, because tax cuts will make up for them. This is the America we live in.


'In a few years, every idiot who supported them will be in another subclass of Republicanism...'

For a sneak peek at this, I refer you to 'Monty Python's Life of Brian'.

/Splitters!
 
2013-10-19 06:52:15 PM

BitwiseShift: Al Hashshashin: Political Conservatism is a particularly poor tool to wield in the face of such a rapidly changing world.

It doesn't even have a definition. As Rush Limbaugh advocated the most gas-guzzling car as a symbol of conservatism, the definition has died -- first being hijacked ransomed then executed.

The use of the term seems to be more about a fear of ;the future -- being overrun by "others" and a by-all-means-possible attempt to shore up the castle walls, with democracy seen as a ticking time-bomb that is not yet seen as dangerous enough to kill.


"Conservatism" is a meaningless and philosophically bankrupt ideology at this point; it's impossible to preserve the aristocracy by simple inertia in a world where varying levels of self-determination have been shown over and over to be both effective and effectual. What we have in the modern world are right-wing reactionaries.
 
2013-10-19 07:06:46 PM

holeinthedonut: The new party will be named the Freedom America Patriot party   FAP for short


I think the Republic of America Party; Extreme is probably more their style, fapping makes republican jesus cry and break a kittens neck.
 
2013-10-19 07:37:31 PM

holeinthedonut: The new party will be named the Freedom America Patriot party   FAP for short


We shall go on to the end. We shall FAP in France, we shall FAP on the seas and oceans, we shall FAP with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall FAP on the beaches, we shall FAP on the landing grounds, we shall FAP in the fields and in the streets, we shall FAP in the hills; we shall never surrender!
 
2013-10-19 07:40:39 PM

RexTalionis: What is up with that guy's sideburns? Do they recruit the douchiest looking people around or is it just that the douchiest looking people tend to be attracted to the Tea Party?

[www.washingtonpost.com image 480x270]
[a.abcnews.go.com image 640x360]
[www.rawstory.com image 615x345]


If he was gonna grow hair that way, he should've gone full muttonchop.
 
2013-10-19 08:40:39 PM

Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.


I have actually recently been re-reading history texts about proto-nazi activities, and I have to differ with you. Although I agree that TP activists have taken a page or two from Goebbels, it's just not reasonable to draw a clean parallel between the Tea Party and the NSDAP. The principal difference between then and now is the lack of a credible "third threat", specifically the USSR and the COMINTERN threat. This, in particular, is what weakened the forces of order and reason in the early 1930s, and allowed the NSDAP to ascend unhindered to power. It only helped that the Goebbels knew every historic and cultural button to push.

That said, I think Raphael "Ted" Cruz has been mapping out a spectacular path, designed to benefit Ted Cruz handsomely, and the US not at all. He is our premier demagogue at the moment, and we should all pause for a moment of sullen antipathy in response.
 
2013-10-19 08:41:15 PM

lizyrd:  It all comes down to the GOP establishment willing to take some short-term losses to put the nuts in their place.


And they're never, ever gonna do that.
 
2013-10-19 09:14:03 PM

randomjsa: I have no idea how the far left radicals that have taken over the Democratic party manage to keep their moderates in line but it might be interesting if the far right faction of the Republicans could manage to do the same somehow.


Now this right here is some TOP-SHELF projection.

/remind me again which members of which party, despite all their bluster, votes in total lock-step or is immediately ostracized?
 
2013-10-19 09:35:39 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: Judean People's Front?


Splitters!
 
2013-10-19 10:03:44 PM

KerwoodDerby: Peki: the lack of a credible "third threat",


But but but that black guy in the white house and those dirty dirty libs.
 
2013-10-19 10:04:13 PM

Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.


Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.
 
2013-10-19 10:16:10 PM

A Terrible Human: MFAWG: olddeegee: ghare: olddeegee: In the long run, I think it will make the "new" Republican party hard to beat. Get rid of the extremists and they would attract a large amount of conservative leaning Dems. That would leave an extreme left party, an extreme right, and a middle of the road GOP.

Are you seriously trying to say you think modern Democrats are "extreme left?"  Because that is, like, laughable.

A segment of them are. Not all. The centrist voters in the party will go to a more moderate party to avoid the extreme left of the party.

That hasn't happened since Reagan, and he's dead.

His movies sucked or at least the ones I've seen sucked. How the fark did he keep getting parts in movies?


My dad used to say John Wayne was such a bad actor, they should have made him president
 
2013-10-19 10:26:54 PM

Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.


FoxNews.

And I addressed your second point in my original. You stopped reading after the part you bolded.
 
2013-10-19 10:29:47 PM

Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.


All that happened AFTER 1935.

I've been saying that for the past three years at least, and been dismissed every time--the Tea Party is one charismatic leader and one serious crisis away from becoming the Nazi Party. Now whether they could actually co-opt the US government like the Nazis did is debatable; but they COULD ride a wave of ultranationalism into a position of considerable power, given the grassroots organizing ability that the Internet provides.

People don't like to think it; but America is quite fascist right now--I'd say we're at about Stage Two in Paxton's rankings--and fascism isn't really a system of governance, it's an outgrowth of ultranationalism and uber-patriotism. You can lay the Teahadis right up against the Nazis in a lot of ways: Their obsession with purity of ideology, their nostalgia for a mythical past, their belief in a future that requires their assistance to happen.

Cruz is a little too stupid and disingenuous to be that charismatic leader (like Bachmann is too loopy and Palin is too shrill), and luckily the Internet preserves the pratfalls as well as the high points of their "saviors" careers. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility.
 
2013-10-19 10:32:51 PM

Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.


It isn't a Godwin when we do it, duh.

This country has to get over this "The other side is Nazis!!1!" bullshiat. Make that point, I don't care who you are, you got nothin', and you lose.
 
2013-10-19 11:19:58 PM

hubiestubert: UndeadPoetsSociety:

Sorry Hubie.  You, yourself, are pretty reasonable, but the 'true conservatism' you constantly mourn for is a chimera; it never existed.  This is Conservatism, and always has been.  What Conservatives want to conserve is the privileges of the already privileged, and nothing else.

You have to remember, I went to school with Dean Chambers. UMF, back in the day. Even in those days, we knew the boy wasn't right. Even in those days, he refused to work on Olympia Snowe's campaign because she wasn't "Right enough." Mind you, this is after her vote against NAFTA and it was the right vote for Maine, and that is why I stayed Republican for so many years: because someone has to vote FOR the sane folk.


The sane folk aren't running on Republican tickets nor in Republican primaries, and haven't since the CRA.

That a horribly damaged human like Dean STILL allows himself to be used poorly so he can imagine he has a seat at the Cool Kids table is sort of sad. Sadder is when the Young Republicans hosted Mitt a few times while he was involved with the UMaine Board, as well as our Student Government and my fraternity was represented at these dinners, Dean was already a fawning 'yard while the rest of us had some fairly hard questions about the money we were putting into the UMaine system and its future.

No offence, but what point do you think you're making here?  If it's something about making sure money is spent efficiently, Conservatives have nothing to do with that and never have done.  Propaganda aside, the only thing they do efficiently is siphon money into the pockets of the wealthy.

I came out of that Maineiac tradition of Conservatism, and the TEAhaddis are making inroads--Maine sends either sensible Representatives or Dyed In Tge Wool Crazies--the GOP in Maine has too much area to cover to give too much credence to the Crazy Train.

Name one sensible Republican rep (or Senator, for that matter).  The current Republican from Maine voted against raising the debt ceiling, while Snowe persistently voted with the Republicans on their various asshole bills.  I'm not seeing any positives for either of them.

Certainly not immune, but Mainers tend to look to Congresscritters to do a job, rather than massage their feelings
You couldn't prove it by the Republicans they send to Congress.
 
2013-10-19 11:28:03 PM

MmmmBacon: I would love to see the National Republican Party disavow any so-called Tea Party member, and refuse to fund their re-election while steering extra funds towards moderate, pro-business Republicans to run against those TP politicians in their next Primary. Not just US Senators and Representatives, though... run against them on the State and even local level. Run those POS Tea Party anarchists out of office anywhere they are serving, and anywhere they hope to serve.

In Oregon we used to have an ultra-conservative third party called the Constitution Party. It was, for all intents and purposes, the Tea Party, just rebranded and run out on a national scale. In Oregon we voters have put those Constitution Party morans in a box, where they can't harm our government and absolutely can't win an election. The GOP should do the same with the Tea Party.


Misnomer. They're more tribalist (eg Somalia), or proto-fascists (eg Koch Suckers), or Theocrats (eg Taliban), or Stupidists (eg Teabaggers). Anarchists tend to be anti-corporatist and pro-utopian freedomists. Not saying anarchism, is a panacea, but shiat, they're saintly geniuses compared to TeaTards.
 
2013-10-19 11:53:00 PM
Have republicans just turned into a party of chronic complainers?  I swear they've been crying about something or other every day going on 5 years now.
 
2013-10-20 12:03:06 AM

A Dark Evil Omen: "Conservatism" is a meaningless and philosophically bankrupt ideology at this point; it's impossible to preserve the aristocracy by simple inertia in a world where varying levels of self-determination have been shown over and over to be both effective and effectual. What we have in the modern world are right-wing reactionaries.


This.  We have seen the end of greed, and it's a bunch of ill-educated louts more than willing to hand over their own wallets to the 'rich elite' in exchange for some kind of favor.  Being a conservative today is pretty much indentured servitude:  notice how they want to pay their 'betters' more money for the chance to be thrown a scrap.  How they can live with themselves by acting this way is far, far beyond me.  You would think people willing to buy guns and take on a government would be adverse to being treated this way.  Yet here we are.
 
2013-10-20 02:14:58 AM

Nucleus: Have republicans just turned into a party of chronic complainers?  I swear they've been crying about something or other every day going on 5 years now.


looking at my facebook thread and the cries of how Obamacare is just like Rome ignoring the barbarians... yes... they're a party of perpetual victimhood. They cry about Affirmative Action, though I can say as a white male, it's pretty freakin awesome, I never get checked at the airport, I never get randomly stopped by cops on the street when I go for a walk... it's awesome. They cry about how Democrats are so mean to those poor Oil Companies, in that they want them to pay the regular corporate tax rate that everyone else has to pay. Generally though, they perceive any demand that the government do something useful as "socialism"... and though they don't know what socialism is, they know they hate it.
 
2013-10-20 02:24:27 AM
i.qkme.me
 
2013-10-20 04:26:27 AM

quatchi: Please.

[i293.photobucket.com image 550x251]

Proceed.


One of my favorite liberal memes.  It is essentially saying "Hey, we conspired against you with the moderator before the debate happened, we Jedi Mind tricked her into lying on our behalf and there was nothing you could do about it."

Liberals control the media and journalists are too stupid to not know what they don't know.  Congratulations.

Even the debate commissioners (the non-partisan guys that organize the debates and pick the moderators - one Republican, one Democrat) have both said publicly that Crowley was both wrong on the facts and wrong to pick sides in the middle of a debate.  That should speak volumes (even though I know it won't on this particular website).

tl;dr:
Your meme is dopey because it's saying "The system is rigged against you.  Aren't I awesome?"
 
2013-10-20 07:38:05 AM

Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.


You know, it didn't start that way. Maybe you should stop watching The History Channel and pick up and a God damned book?
 
2013-10-20 07:54:58 AM

Guntram Shatterhand:  Being a conservative today is pretty much indentured servitude:  notice how they want to pay their 'betters' more money for the chance to be thrown a scrap.  How they can live with themselves by acting this way is far, far beyond me.  You would think people willing to buy guns and take on a government would be adverse to being treated this way.  Yet here we are.


I don't have a simple answer for your question, but psychology might play a role.  There does seem to be a high concentration of 'authoritarian followers' as described in Bob Altemeyer's "The Authoritarians".
 
2013-10-20 10:14:32 AM
Where is the unlikely tag?
 
2013-10-20 10:19:34 AM

Prophet of Loss: Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.

You know, it didn't start that way. Maybe you should stop watching The History Channel and pick up and a God damned book?


Peki said the "only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader", which is trite, hang-wringing nonsense that's not really even worth a response. I should not have replied to such an obvious troll. But hey, go right on thinking we're "just like Nazi Germany" if it fulfills your apocalyptic version of reality.
 
2013-10-20 11:55:30 AM

Stone Meadow: Prophet of Loss: Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.

You know, it didn't start that way. Maybe you should stop watching The History Channel and pick up and a God damned book?

Peki said the "only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader", which is trite, hang-wringing nonsense that's not really even worth a response. I should not have replied to such an obvious troll. But hey, go right on thinking we're "just like Nazi Germany" if it fulfills your apocalyptic version of reality.


I responded to your reply. I wasn't trolling. I've done some reading. You haven't. I shared. You judged. Your problem, not mine. *shrug*
 
2013-10-20 12:40:04 PM

SunsetLament: quatchi: Please.

[i293.photobucket.com image 550x251]

Proceed.

One of my favorite liberal memes.  It is essentially saying "Hey, we conspired against you with the moderator before the debate happened, we Jedi Mind tricked her into lying on our behalf and there was nothing you could do about it."

Liberals control the media and journalists are too stupid to not know what they don't know.  Congratulations.

Even the debate commissioners (the non-partisan guys that organize the debates and pick the moderators - one Republican, one Democrat) have both said publicly that Crowley was both wrong on the facts and wrong to pick sides in the middle of a debate.  That should speak volumes (even though I know it won't on this particular website).

tl;dr:
Your meme is dopey because it's saying "The system is rigged against you.  Aren't I awesome?"


Can you show me on the doll whet the moderator touched you?
 
2013-10-20 12:42:47 PM

Peki: Stone Meadow: Prophet of Loss: Stone Meadow: Peki: Little late in the thread, but read "Origins of Totalitarianism." The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.

Yeah, except for the whole controlling the press and rounding up domestic political opponents and disappearing them into barbed-wire camps thingie.

You know, it didn't start that way. Maybe you should stop watching The History Channel and pick up and a God damned book?

Peki said the "only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader", which is trite, hang-wringing nonsense that's not really even worth a response. I should not have replied to such an obvious troll. But hey, go right on thinking we're "just like Nazi Germany" if it fulfills your apocalyptic version of reality.

I responded to your reply. I wasn't trolling. I've done some reading. You haven't. I shared. You judged. Your problem, not mine. *shrug*


LOL...no, you did not 'respond to me'. A full 5 hours after you posted your comment I called you out for the bullshiat assertion that the US is just one charismatic leader away from being just like Nazi Germany. So, since you claim to be not trolling I guess you're just stupid, since none of those books you claim to have read seems to have informed you on the subject.
 
2013-10-20 12:55:29 PM
If the hateful seniors and rednecks who call themselves the Tea Party would form a third party, that would be great. They would be marginalized, and we could safely ignore them.
 
2013-10-20 04:34:15 PM

Peki: The only difference at this point between us and Nazi Germany is the charismatic leader--Ted Cruz seems to be the man for the job at this point, but we'll see what happens in January--and the willy-nilly punishments that target innocents and guilty alike, though you could easily point to overreaching police departments and the NSA here. We even have the economic issues.


Stone Meadow: LOL...no, you did not 'respond to me'. A full 5 hours after you posted your comment I called you out for the bullshiat assertion that the US is just one charismatic leader away from being just like Nazi Germany. So, since you claim to be not trolling I guess you're just stupid, since none of those books you claim to have read seems to have informed you on the subject.


Okay. I asked you to read my original, but since you didn't, I bolded the appropriate parts for you. Try learning how to read before proving you can't.
 
2013-10-20 09:29:06 PM

SunsetLament: Liberals control the media


DRINK!
 
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