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(Click On Detroit)   Because the shutdown wasn't messy enough: Thousands of federal workers who filed for unemployment while they were furloughed will now have to pay that money back   (clickondetroit.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, unemployment checks, thousands, refunds, Secretary of State for Employment, des, actors  
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687 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Oct 2013 at 1:15 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-10-18 12:10:32 PM  
Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.
 
2013-10-18 12:21:12 PM  

unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.


they've gotten faster with starting payment now.

When I was on unemployment a few years ago, it was about a week before I was getting deposits.
 
2013-10-18 12:28:23 PM  
Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?
 
2013-10-18 12:48:18 PM  

cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?




They were effectively laid off, thus eligible. Being laid off used to be temporary in this country. When my Grandfathers worked for Automobile industry, there would be layoffs due to overproduction... So they shut down a few weeks till inventory was cleared, or the retooled the line for a new product.
 
2013-10-18 12:49:09 PM  

cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?


They were furloughed.  Good enough.  Not working and not getting paid.  Since they still had a guarantee of a job, I don't think they had to be "looking" either.

The two rules for unemployment:

Not working through no fault of your own. (rules here are quite loose, always file for unemployment, even if you think you are not eligible.)
Able, available and looking for work.
 
2013-10-18 01:18:34 PM  
I don't think the elimination period expired yet.
 
2013-10-18 01:18:39 PM  
One, that's not a bad thing since the Unemployment obviously helped them take care of their financial needs

Two, they're getting back-pay so they can afford to give back whatever unemployment that they got in the short term.

Non-issue, non-story.
 
2013-10-18 01:19:02 PM  
Hey, well at least the House saved the tax payers a ton of money by shutting everything down for the lulz.
 
2013-10-18 01:19:33 PM  

unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.


Two weeks to pay, including one week where you're not eligible.
 
2013-10-18 01:20:29 PM  
Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.
 
2013-10-18 01:21:50 PM  

unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.


In my state, only a few of the thousands who applied received any payment. It was just a shiatload of extra work for nothing. The steps required to verify wages from the Federal government made it more than 2 weeks before verification for almost everyone who applied. That's probably the same in other states.
 
2013-10-18 01:22:25 PM  

haemaker: cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?

They were furloughed.  Good enough.  Not working and not getting paid.  Since they still had a guarantee of a job, I don't think they had to be "looking" either.

The two rules for unemployment:

Not working through no fault of your own. (rules here are quite loose, always file for unemployment, even if you think you are not eligible.)
Able, available and looking for work.


My understanding from the government workers is that they couldn't look for another job, as they might not be available (since they can be called back at any time)
 
2013-10-18 01:23:47 PM  

Infernalist: One, that's not a bad thing since the Unemployment obviously helped them take care of their financial needs

Two, they're getting back-pay so they can afford to give back whatever unemployment that they got in the short term.

Non-issue, non-story.


LOL. Yes, the tens of thousands of extra man-hours was no big deal.
 
2013-10-18 01:24:08 PM  

Infernalist: One, that's not a bad thing since the Unemployment obviously helped them take care of their financial needs

Two, they're getting back-pay so they can afford to give back whatever unemployment that they got in the short term.

Non-issue, non-story.


They are not being charge interest either so they've effectively received a two month interest free loan that has the ability to be extended if needed.

I see nothing wrong with either side of this story; those who filed for unemployment or them having to pay it back.
 
2013-10-18 01:25:59 PM  

Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.


They aren't. Who is claiming they are? Unemployment was a fraction of their regular pay, and the huge majority (99%) never received any money.

It was just a shiatload of man hours for actual workers. I made some nice coin out of the deal. Thanks, broken congress!
 
2013-10-18 01:26:09 PM  

mediablitz: Infernalist: One, that's not a bad thing since the Unemployment obviously helped them take care of their financial needs

Two, they're getting back-pay so they can afford to give back whatever unemployment that they got in the short term.

Non-issue, non-story.

LOL. Yes, the tens of thousands of extra man-hours was no big deal.


That's a valid point.
One that is not mentioned nor  the center of focus to the article linked.
 
2013-10-18 01:26:28 PM  
This would have been an epically sweet shutdown if they'd not been forced to pay back their unemployment benefits.
 
2013-10-18 01:27:40 PM  

mediablitz: Infernalist: One, that's not a bad thing since the Unemployment obviously helped them take care of their financial needs

Two, they're getting back-pay so they can afford to give back whatever unemployment that they got in the short term.

Non-issue, non-story.

LOL. Yes, the tens of thousands of extra man-hours was no big deal.


thanks obama
 
2013-10-18 01:28:37 PM  

Cletus C.: This would have been an epically sweet shutdown if they'd not been forced to pay back their unemployment benefits.


What do the liberals in your head think about that attitude of yours, young man?
 
2013-10-18 01:30:33 PM  

cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?


Some states call it "partial employment": you still have a job, but for reasons beyond your control, your employer has reduced your hours and pay below what is customary. In the case of furloughs and shutdown, that means they reduced your hours to zero, but the reduction doesn't have to be as extreme as that.

Partially-employed people can collect unemployment, but it works a little differently. You're not eligible for a full set of benefits, unless your work hours are actually zero: otherwise, unemployment only covers the time you weren't allowed to work. There's normally also a rule that you have to work all the hours available to you, and the unemployment folks will check with your employer to verify that you did.
 
2013-10-18 01:31:01 PM  
House republicans who caused this should be the ones to pay the money back
 
2013-10-18 01:34:14 PM  

unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.


Yeah, I've been between jobs twice in the last year. The first week is a freebie, then you start getting bennies. With Direct deposit, there isn't any other delay, unless your case gets flagged for a review, but the one time I had to talk to someone, I still got my money after a week.
 
2013-10-18 01:34:55 PM  
This will not be a mess.  It will be a minor inconvenience to people at the unemployment office.
 
2013-10-18 01:36:36 PM  
But now that Congress has approved back pay for them, the states want that money back.

Sorry, there is not outrage here. They are getting their back pay, so they weren't unemployed at the time. They shouldn't have to pay it back until they have their back pay in the banks, but that's it. This is exactly how unemployment works. If they got to keep it, plus their back pay, then it would be just free money.

I'm not saying that these people didn't get screwed in the first place with the furlough and shiat, just that if you get money, your unemployment is affected, especially if you're getting all of the money you should have in the first place.
 
2013-10-18 01:36:54 PM  

Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.


The stupid thing about this, IMO, is all the effort that had to be made to set these people up on unemployment, and now all the effort (and cost) that will have to go into getting all these people back off unemployment, making sure they return the money, and having to go after the fraction that don't give it back.  All part of the waste caused by the shutdown.
 
2013-10-18 01:37:03 PM  

mediablitz: unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.

In my state, only a few of the thousands who applied received any payment. It was just a shiatload of extra work for nothing. The steps required to verify wages from the Federal government made it more than 2 weeks before verification for almost everyone who applied. That's probably the same in other states.


That sounds like a nightmarish Brazil Catch-22 type scenario.  The place that laid you off is not functioning, thus, can't verify or even provide documentation of your records for you to collect unemployment benefits.

Really surprised no one has gone postal in these ODS times.
 
2013-10-18 01:37:57 PM  

Warlordtrooper: House republicans who caused this should be the ones to pay the money back


I, for one, would suggest the House Republicans put 100% of their salary into a fund to pay off the $24 billion their tantrum cost us.
 
2013-10-18 01:38:32 PM  

cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?


You are incorrect.

"technically", they were laid off with the sub code "furlough". It is a lay off. Every state has a "laid off/furloughed" option. Legally, for unemployment purposes, they ARE laid off.

So there you go. Now you have a little education on the matter.
 
2013-10-18 01:41:28 PM  

hammettman: mediablitz: unlikely: Did it last long enough for unemployment to pay out?
I filed for unemployment briefly in 2001 and it took like three weeks to even start. But things might have changed.

In my state, only a few of the thousands who applied received any payment. It was just a shiatload of extra work for nothing. The steps required to verify wages from the Federal government made it more than 2 weeks before verification for almost everyone who applied. That's probably the same in other states.

That sounds like a nightmarish Brazil Catch-22 type scenario.  The place that laid you off is not functioning, thus, can't verify or even provide documentation of your records for you to collect unemployment benefits.

Really surprised no one has gone postal in these ODS times.


I get to talk to a lot of Unemployment Department employees. That was exactly their take. "You aren't qualified for payments yet because we have to request your salary information from the Federal government. There is a very good possibility the people we are sending the request to are also furloughed, so we can't tell you when you might get paid".

Government at its finest!
 
2013-10-18 01:41:30 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?

They were effectively laid off, thus eligible. Being laid off used to be temporary in this country. When my Grandfathers worked for Automobile industry, there would be layoffs due to overproduction... So they shut down a few weeks till inventory was cleared, or the retooled the line for a new product.


"Laid off" is the new "FIRED!". As you said, laid off once meant temporary, now it means "Goodbye!", 'cause they ain't calling you back to work when things get better. They will hire someone for half what they paid you before calling you back. Laid is slang for being farked...
 
2013-10-18 01:42:28 PM  
It was 3 weeks. How did they get processed that fast and get paid in the first place?
 
2013-10-18 01:42:38 PM  

wxboy: Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.

The stupid thing about this, IMO, is all the effort that had to be made to set these people up on unemployment, and now all the effort (and cost) that will have to go into getting all these people back off unemployment, making sure they return the money, and having to go after the fraction that don't give it back.  All part of the waste caused by the shutdown.


Blame the House GOP for this too. I know several Feds who applied and it was exactly because in the first few days, the asshats were saying they would NOT give back pay.

It was that uncertainty that caused furloughed Feds to apply.  Before the GOP so gloriously caved, they were being such dicks that there was every reason to believe the money wouldn't be paid.
 
2013-10-18 01:43:07 PM  
i100.photobucket.com 3

Dole Office Clerk: Occupation?
Comicus: Stand-up philosopher.
Dole Office Clerk: What?
Comicus: Stand-up philosopher. I coalesce the vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension.
Dole Office Clerk: Oh, a *bullshiat* artist!
Comicus: *Grumble*...
Dole Office Clerk: Did you bullshiat last week?
Comicus: No.
Dole Office Clerk: Did you *try* to bullshiat last week?
Comicus: Yes!
 
2013-10-18 01:43:44 PM  
Even more reading reveals:
Those who already used the benefits will have 60 days to repay the DES, without interest. Workers who are in financial hardship can also apply to be part of a longer repayment plan.

So you get 2 months to pay back the money, plus the option to claim economic hardship and pay it back even slower. Once again, as long as they've received their back pay before this point, there is nothing wrong here.

Look, it's even happened before(So it isn't Obama's fault):

This isn't the first time furloughed workers had to return their unemployment checks. During the government shutdown in 1995 and 1996, state agencies also tried to recoup the overpaid funds.
 
2013-10-18 01:44:03 PM  

LittleSmitty: Darth_Lukecash: cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?

They were effectively laid off, thus eligible. Being laid off used to be temporary in this country. When my Grandfathers worked for Automobile industry, there would be layoffs due to overproduction... So they shut down a few weeks till inventory was cleared, or the retooled the line for a new product.

"Laid off" is the new "FIRED!". As you said, laid off once meant temporary, now it means "Goodbye!", 'cause they ain't calling you back to work when things get better. They will hire someone for half what they paid you before calling you back. Laid is slang for being farked...


Unless you've got a really good union contract, though.  Then you might have a chance.  Or had a chance, those are going away too.
 
2013-10-18 01:45:48 PM  

wxboy: Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.

The stupid thing about this, IMO, is all the effort that had to be made to set these people up on unemployment, and now all the effort (and cost) that will have to go into getting all these people back off unemployment, making sure they return the money, and having to go after the fraction that don't give it back.  All part of the waste caused by the shutdown.


You nailed it. Man hours, mailings, database changes (thank you!), more man hours, more mailings, more database work (thank you again!), all for nothing.

Across 50 states. But Ted Cruz got LOTS of donations for his prinicpled stance against windmills...
 
2013-10-18 01:47:06 PM  

monoski: It was 3 weeks. How did they get processed that fast and get paid in the first place?


The only place they got processed "fast" was in Washington DC because they are set up to handle federal claims. I doubt more than 3-5% were processed in the 50 states.
 
2013-10-18 01:48:34 PM  

Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.


Were you a furloughed employee? If so, I'm curious how the "can't get another job" thing works. If I'm understanding it, the furloughed employees couldn't go to work, but they also couldn't work elsewhere? WTF is that all about?
 
2013-10-18 01:49:19 PM  

cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?


And they're getting back pay, right?
 
2013-10-18 01:51:40 PM  
And they'll have to pay taxes on it and fight with the IRS that they paid it back
 
2013-10-18 01:53:29 PM  

wxboy: LittleSmitty: Darth_Lukecash: cman: Technically they weren't laid off nor fired

Why did they qualify for unemployment benefits to begin with?

They were effectively laid off, thus eligible. Being laid off used to be temporary in this country. When my Grandfathers worked for Automobile industry, there would be layoffs due to overproduction... So they shut down a few weeks till inventory was cleared, or the retooled the line for a new product.

"Laid off" is the new "FIRED!". As you said, laid off once meant temporary, now it means "Goodbye!", 'cause they ain't calling you back to work when things get better. They will hire someone for half what they paid you before calling you back. Laid is slang for being farked...

Unless you've got a really good union contract, though.  Then you might have a chance.  Or had a chance, those are going away too.


True story:

I was laid off a few years ago (The very day Obama took office). My resume has been floating around the interwebs ever since. Yesterday, Jobserious sent me an email about jobs I may be interested in. My old position was the first one listed. Oh how I laughed.
 
2013-10-18 01:53:53 PM  

Warlordtrooper: House republicans who caused this should be the ones to pay the money back


The CBO estimates that the shutdown cost $24B.  I was thinking, why not charge those states/districts of those Republicans that supported the shutdown and/or voted to have it continue?  if they're getting federal funding, just deduct some percentage from that funding from that state..

So Texas, we're going to hold back about $1B from your federal funding dollars.. is that cool?
 
2013-10-18 02:02:24 PM  

mediablitz: monoski: It was 3 weeks. How did they get processed that fast and get paid in the first place?

The only place they got processed "fast" was in Washington DC because they are set up to handle federal claims. I doubt more than 3-5% were processed in the 50 states.


In PA they would be lucky to get the acknowledgement/review letter in 3 weeks.
 
2013-10-18 02:10:15 PM  

Mikey1969: Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.

Were you a furloughed employee? If so, I'm curious how the "can't get another job" thing works. If I'm understanding it, the furloughed employees couldn't go to work, but they also couldn't work elsewhere? WTF is that all about?


Yeah, I was furloughed for the first four days of October and then recalled under POMA. Generally speaking, furloughed employees can seek outside work while furloughed (warning: PDF), but we can't do work within a field that is substantially similar to what we do for the government. So if I had found a freelance tutoring job for those four days, that would have been fine. But if I had found a job with a defense contractor somehow, I'd be violating the standards for ethical conduct.

MrBallou: wxboy: Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.

The stupid thing about this, IMO, is all the effort that had to be made to set these people up on unemployment, and now all the effort (and cost) that will have to go into getting all these people back off unemployment, making sure they return the money, and having to go after the fraction that don't give it back.  All part of the waste caused by the shutdown.

Blame the House GOP for this too. I know several Feds who applied and it was exactly because in the first few days, the asshats were saying they would NOT give back pay.

It was that uncertainty that caused furloughed Feds to apply.  Before the GOP so gloriously caved, they were being such dicks that there was every reason to believe the money wouldn't be paid.


I didn't end up finishing my application because, by the time I got everything done in the black hole that is apparently Kansas's unemployment system, the House was already moving on the back pay bill and they passed it unanimously. I figured that the Senate would eventually approve it as well, and I am fortunate that I have a rainy day fund thanks to saving money from my deployment so I did not need the cash. But there were several people in my agency who did file for and collect benefits for those four days, and I know they are grumpy about dealing with the unemployment system AGAIN to remit the funds when they do get paid. It's a horrible waste of time and money.
 
2013-10-18 02:12:20 PM  

Serious Black: Seriously? This is a problem? We're effectively getting paid as if we were working during the furlough. I'd love to hear someone explain why federal employees that are being treated this way should be allowed to keep unemployment benefits.


Seems like a waste of money to me. Pfft, paying them for not working.

Government workers are just moochers.
 
2013-10-18 02:20:26 PM  
Why would we pay gov't workers 3 weeks of backpay....when they weren't working?!?!

Unemployment is understandable. Back pay, not so much.
 
2013-10-18 02:30:33 PM  

joness0154: Why would we pay gov't workers 3 weeks of backpay....when they weren't working?!?!

Unemployment is understandable. Back pay, not so much.


I know a guy that had a baby during the furlough. He's taking even more time off!

And still getting paid!
 
2013-10-18 02:31:58 PM  

joness0154: Why would we pay gov't workers 3 weeks of backpay....when they weren't working?!?!

Unemployment is understandable. Back pay, not so much.


Because in the real world, people do things like make budgets. They base these off their expected paycheck.

When someone stops getting their paycheck solely because Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachmann are throwing a tantrum, they have to find other ways to follow their budget. It violates a normal person's sense of fairness and propriety that a normal person would lose money because a few people have a childish fit.
 
2013-10-18 02:38:32 PM  

joness0154: Why would we pay gov't workers 3 weeks of backpay....when they weren't working?!?!

Unemployment is understandable. Back pay, not so much.


Because we understand that they were ordered not to work. They were working, in a strange sort of way, because they were still doing what they were told, and they should not be punished for that.
 
2013-10-18 02:42:12 PM  

Gonz: joness0154: Why would we pay gov't workers 3 weeks of backpay....when they weren't working?!?!

Unemployment is understandable. Back pay, not so much.

Because in the real world, people do things like make budgets. They base these off their expected paycheck.

When someone stops getting their paycheck solely because Ted Cruz and Michelle Bachmann are throwing a tantrum, they have to find other ways to follow their budget. It violates a normal person's sense of fairness and propriety that a normal person would lose money because a few people have a childish fit.


Fairness is socialism. In America, you're supposed to work for your pay.
 
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